2021 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Ok, so you have me confused.  Who are you talking about, Craig or Todd?

Are you of the belief that Craig tells Todd who the top 20 is?

 

To be honest, I would assume the brothers confide with one another.  Tod and Craig's list will be very very very similar.

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

To be honest, I would assume the brothers confide with one another.  Tod and Craig's list will be very very very similar.

 

I think Craig supports his bother, after the fact.

I haven't heard him say anything negative and often he praises the picks.

A smart scout looks at sources, but draws upon internal views of fit and purpose.

I did find it interesting that Todd said the Flames had no real positional need.

 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Ok, so you have me confused.  Who are you talking about, Craig or Todd?

Are you of the belief that Craig tells Todd who the top 20 is?

 

No idea how exactly it all goes down, but it's just like you said...the results are incredibly similar as you would expect...they all obviously talk.

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

Here's Craig's updated mock

 

Thank you, I hadn't seen that.  Does seem to be a more consensus oriented final list.

I don't see how they know 8 players will be a lock...but maybe they do.  

 

If so, I do hope they move into that 8.   Nothing against Silinger I just don't see how he would fit nor so I see anything special about him.

 

Coronato is still hard to ignore.   A lot in the mid-round are, from Ceulemans to Cossa.

[travel_dude]

29 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Thank you, I hadn't seen that.  Does seem to be a more consensus oriented final list.

I don't see how they know 8 players will be a lock...but maybe they do.  

 

If so, I do hope they move into that 8.   Nothing against Silinger I just don't see how he would fit nor so I see anything special about him.

 

Coronato is still hard to ignore.   A lot in the mid-round are, from Ceulemans to Cossa.

 

So, the key here is that this may be tied to a trade for Eichel and the expansion.

If we get Eichel, clearly our needs are RW and D; I don't think Walltedt is expected to fall, so Cossa is too low to consider.

If we don't, then you have  wider range to choose from.

 

If you consider Zary to be a top 6 capable C, then you probably don't go for Sillinger.

If you don't, then you need a good scoring C.

Coronato is hard for me to pass up.

I'm not as much in love with the D that will almost for sure drop.

Maybe a 2nd pairing ceiling or a surprise.

 

Saying that, I don't think I would be upset with Coronato, Sillinger a decent D or Wallstedt.  

Doubt any of the top rated F fall to us, so I'm not listing them.

Cossa would be a mistake at 12.

Get a 2nd pick in the first round.

12th overall for 21st and 25th overall?

Hmm, have to really think on that one.

Some good later picks might yield good stuff or meh results.

[Thebrewcrew]

I think Sillinger will end up a winger in the NHL, with the ability to play C in a pinch. He reminds me a bit of Max Domi.

 

USHL doesn't have faceoff stats, but in 19/20 Sillinger only took 8 faceoffs with Medicine Hat. 

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

So, the key here is that this may be tied to a trade for Eichel and the expansion.

If we get Eichel, clearly our needs are RW and D; I don't think Walltedt is expected to fall, so Cossa is too low to consider.

If we don't, then you have  wider range to choose from.

 

If you consider Zary to be a top 6 capable C, then you probably don't go for Sillinger.

If you don't, then you need a good scoring C.

Coronato is hard for me to pass up.

I'm not as much in love with the D that will almost for sure drop.

Maybe a 2nd pairing ceiling or a surprise.

 

Saying that, I don't think I would be upset with Coronato, Sillinger a decent D or Wallstedt.  

Doubt any of the top rated F fall to us, so I'm not listing them.

Cossa would be a mistake at 12.

Get a 2nd pick in the first round.

12th overall for 21st and 25th overall?

Hmm, have to really think on that one.

Some good later picks might yield good stuff or meh results.

 

IMHO it makes sense to either upgrade our pick (it's worth it), and/or get a second first round pick (ie., upgrade our 2nd round pick, etc).

 

The whole first round downgrade thing is a bad habit to get into,  I feel.   Yes it's harder to upgrade and there is a really good reason for that.

 

IMHO our needs are at RW and RD, firstly, whether we get Eichel or not.    I also just don't see the value in Eichel, he's crazy high risk all for the chance to be the powerhouse that is Buffalo.

 

This is a Really good draft to take care of the D situation, if we acquire a center like Eichel and we have no D, no RW...no G ,,, then we are...Literally, Buffalo. IF...Eichel fully recovers from his surgery which is 50/50 at best.

 

So in a sense I don't care because all options point to a really high likelihood of getting high picks in the next two drafts.

[cross16]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

How would you compare Sillinger to Coronato?

Coronator seems to have a slight edge in scoring, but Sillinger is a C.

I like the reviews of both players, but they always tend to sound pretty rosy.

like them both but I give Sillinger the edge or 2 reasons. He plays with power, which helps him create opportunities, and he’s the better goal scorer. I know Coronatos numbers were better and while Coronato has a wicked release j don’t see him create the type of deception and power Sillinger does with his shot. Coronato seems to thrive off being in open space to score goals and that’s something that gets harder and harder to do as you move up.
I still like him and wouldn’t actually be upset if the Flames picked him. I just like a few others more. 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

IMHO it makes sense to either upgrade our pick (it's worth it), and/or get a second first round pick (ie., upgrade our 2nd round pick, etc).

 

The whole first round downgrade thing is a bad habit to get into,  I feel.   Yes it's harder to upgrade and there is a really good reason for that.

 

IMHO our needs are at RW and RD, firstly, whether we get Eichel or not.    I also just don't see the value in Eichel, he's crazy high risk all for the chance to be the powerhouse that is Buffalo.

 

This is a Really good draft to take care of the D situation, if we acquire a center like Eichel and we have no D, no RW...no G ,,, then we are...Literally, Buffalo. IF...Eichel fully recovers from his surgery which is 50/50 at best.

 

So in a sense I don't care because all options point to a really high likelihood of getting high picks in the next two drafts.

 

Upgrade our 2nd to a 1st?  Like how?

I'm sure there are 31 other teams looking to do exactly the same thing.

I mentioned trading a 12th for Minny's two 1st rounders, which is unlikely.

 

The other option, which may or may not come to pass.

We trade for Eichel, we lose Tkachuk and a chance at a "decent" D and a prospect.

In other words, we lose a LW where we have two other LW for top 6.

What we do suddenly have is an excess C.

We can address the D with a trade.

Or we address the RW with a trade.

 

With a broken Monahan, a questionable coach for 1/2 the season, and a declining Gio, we barely droped to 12th overall.

Doing nothing else means we are at worst 12th overall again.

We just aren;t bad enough to drop as far as you want.

Too many legit bad teams below us.

[jjgallow]

7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Upgrade our 2nd to a 1st?  Like how?

I'm sure there are 31 other teams looking to do exactly the same thing.

I mentioned trading a 12th for Minny's two 1st rounders, which is unlikely.

 

The other option, which may or may not come to pass.

We trade for Eichel, we lose Tkachuk and a chance at a "decent" D and a prospect.

In other words, we lose a LW where we have two other LW for top 6.

What we do suddenly have is an excess C.

We can address the D with a trade.

Or we address the RW with a trade.

 

With a broken Monahan, a questionable coach for 1/2 the season, and a declining Gio, we barely droped to 12th overall.

Doing nothing else means we are at worst 12th overall again.

We just aren;t bad enough to drop as far as you want.

Too many legit bad teams below us.

 

You need to make the hard trades rather than the easy ones sometimes.     Upgrading picks happens all the time, we let two different teams do it in the first round last year.   I could propose examples to you and you would say the cost is to high and I would say no it isn't.   There is a big difference between spots especially in the first round.    I could also just propose getting a first in return for our players and keeping our 2nd, which would be an even tougher trade.

 

You have to pay the price.

 

Let's be serious for just a minute.   Eichel's not coming here.    Guaranteed, he does not want to be here.   No high profile player will until we clean up our mess.

 

Let's be even more serious, Eichel's not worth it and is also extremely risky, and is the wrong position for what we need.    People keep thinking if we only had a center well Buffalo has a center and they are Aweful.   You need to start with the basics, build up your defence and goaltending.  You know it's true, get off the cheap highlight real heroin and then we can discuss players that help teams win games.

 

And yes we ARE that bad.    You just don't see it because you're stuck in old mantras like "it's the coaches fault", me god I remember that trash in midget hockey with uneducated parents thinking their kid was the next Gretzky, can we get off the whole coach thing and face facts?   Sutter's record was worse.  Ok?  It wasn't the coach and no coach can save us and the data is really clear about that.

 

Here's more facts.  That season where everyone is going to be healthy, Isn't ever coming.   I don't have any idea why anyone thinks it will.  It doesn't even happen in well run organisations.   We haven't cleaned up management so we will continue to break our players.  Monahan wasn't the only broken player last year and he won't be the only broken player next season.   We don't even know IF Monahan will play next season let alone be healthy.

 

Our core is getting a year slower and they Barely did the 12th pick, we spent a good part of the season thinking we would around 5th worse.   We have a serially concussed goalie on a massive death trap contract, we have Other death trap contracts worse than that, most of our best players are severely aging and simply not very healthy.   We have nobody on the right-and side of the ice, or on defence.

 

Let's face facts.    We haven't come anywhere close to hitting rock bottom.   Yeah, if I thought we could just bounce back, then the conversation would change but this is simply not the case.   Our best players are going to decline and get even more unhealthy in the upcoming season and beyond, and we are strangled into contracts that prevent us from doing anything to fix it.

[travel_dude]

30 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

You need to make the hard trades rather than the easy ones sometimes.     Upgrading picks happens all the time, we let two different teams do it in the first round last year.   I could propose examples to you and you would say the cost is to high and I would say no it isn't.   There is a big difference between spots especially in the first round.    I could also just propose getting a first in return for our players and keeping our 2nd, which would be an even tougher trade.

 

 

You said upgrading a 2nd with a 1st and said nothing about trading players to get a 1st.  Trading for a 1st is a different argument.

 

31 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

And yes we ARE that bad.    You just don't see it because you're stuck in old mantras like "it's the coaches fault", me god I remember that trash in midget hockey with uneducated parents thinking their kid was the next Gretzky, can we get off the whole coach thing and face facts?   Sutter's record was worse.  Ok?  It wasn't the coach and no coach can save us and the data is really clear about that.

 

Here's more facts.  That season where everyone is going to be healthy, Isn't ever coming.   I don't have any idea why anyone thinks it will.  It doesn't even happen in well run organisations.   We haven't cleaned up management so we will continue to break our players.  Monahan wasn't the only broken player last year and he won't be the only broken player next season.   We don't even know IF Monahan will play next season let alone be healthy.

 

Our core is getting a year slower and they Barely did the 12th pick, we spent a good part of the season thinking we would around 5th worse.   We have a serially concussed goalie on a massive death trap contract, we have Other death trap contracts worse than that, most of our best players are severely aging and simply not very healthy.   We have nobody on the right-and side of the ice, or on defence.

 

 

I only blame the coach for his poor decision making and failure to properly use two goalies.  That goes back to last year.  Agree or not, it had an impact on the state of the club.

 

Continue to shout at the clouds.  I'm sure you truly believe all the exaggerated statements you make.   

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

You said upgrading a 2nd with a 1st and said nothing about trading players to get a 1st.  Trading for a 1st is a different argument.

 

 

I only blame the coach for his poor decision making and failure to properly use two goalies.  That goes back to last year.  Agree or not, it had an impact on the state of the club.

 

Continue to shout at the clouds.  I'm sure you truly believe all the exaggerated statements you make.   

 

The most exaggerated statement made in here is that this team is salvageable and will bounce back.   It is based on dust from the hockey fairy.

 

Delusions like this have been very costly to our organisation.   Management will stop selling said delusions only when fans stop buying them.

 

[robrob74]

50 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

The most exaggerated statement made in here is that this team is salvageable and will bounce back.   It is based on dust from the hockey fairy.

 

Delusions like this have been very costly to our organisation.   Management will stop selling said delusions only when fans stop buying them.

 

i think our GM is out to lunch, well, he makes his calls from Boston Pizza. But I mean, I think management and others are still back in 2nd overall mode, thinking this team has underperformed the last two years. This is a good team that has underperformed. 
 

Maybe we should say that this team is good at underperforming?  
 

or is it really the fact we had two “unusual” years? I mean, maybe two unusual seasons plus one really unusual playoffs where even Tampa got kicked! Although, the difference there was Tampa hated losing so much that they decided to win two cups the following years.

 

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

thinking this team has underperformed the last two years. 

 

This exactly.  We are a very average team.  Certainly capable of making the playoffs but will be a Cinderella like Montreal, at best.  Will not win it all.

 

Ownership above all else has to wake up.

[travel_dude]

28 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

This exactly.  We are a very average team.  Certainly capable of making the playoffs but will be a Cinderella like Montreal, at best.  Will not win it all.

 

Ownership above all else has to wake up.

 

This is the key message for BT, but also a wakeup to fans; unless we rebuild, we aren't finishing bottom 5.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

This is the key message for BT, but also a wakeup to fans; unless we rebuild, we aren't finishing bottom 5.

I get it…

 

I think BT needs to show he believes in this team to try regain the players’ confidence.

 

sometime the perfect storm is a blessing. Sometimes teams get riddled with  injuries and bottom out. And sometimes when you do t completely botttom out you get a Makar, or you get a too 3 pick. 
 

my guess is we were two more significant injuries from doing that.

 

one thing we know is, we will never lose out on purpose.

 

if the Van games happen when the playoffs  are still a possibility do those games look different or end with the same results? 

 

I see is going for it. I still think this first round pick gets dealt. For what? I don’t know? 

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I get it…

 

I think BT needs to show he believes in this team to try regain the players’ confidence.

 

sometime the perfect storm is a blessing. Sometimes teams get riddled with  injuries and bottom out. And sometimes when you do t completely botttom out you get a Makar, or you get a too 3 pick. 
 

my guess is we were two more significant injuries from doing that.

 

one thing we know is, we will never lose out on purpose.

 

if the Van games happen when the playoffs  are still a possibility do those games look different or end with the same results? 

 

I see is going for it. I still think this first round pick gets dealt. For what? I don’t know? 

 

I think the only way we deal the 1st is for Eichel, which I think is remote.

I could see Tkachuk or Monahan or Gaudreau dealt, but not for a pick.

 

We beat MTL when they were making a playoff run.  They clinched (May 10th) after dropping 3/5 to us, by virtue of an OT game.  2nd last game of the season for them.

 

Losing Markstrom to injury certainly derailed us, but that was set up for us to fail by not managing goalie starts.

It took a long time for Markstrom to get back to snuff.

We should have learned this lesson when we lost Smith and Rittich in previous years.  

[Thebrewcrew]

https://www.tsn.ca/craig-button-list-owen-power-nhl-draft-1.1666944

 

Interesting one is Svechkov at 6th. Maybe he's this years Kotkaniemi. The C that shoots up the board later in the process. 

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

https://www.tsn.ca/craig-button-list-owen-power-nhl-draft-1.1666944

 

Wow if the Flames pass on Kent Johnson then I would be pretty mad.

[Thebrewcrew]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Wow if the Flames pass on Kent Johnson then I would be pretty mad.

If he's there at 12th the Flames absolutely need to turn that pick in. Should be a no-brainer.

 

He's a little lower on Guenther which I like. I really want him to fall to the Flames haha

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think the only way we deal the 1st is for Eichel, which I think is remote.

I could see Tkachuk or Monahan or Gaudreau dealt, but not for a pick.

 

We beat MTL when they were making a playoff run.  They clinched (May 10th) after dropping 3/5 to us, by virtue of an OT game.  2nd last game of the season for them.

 

Losing Markstrom to injury certainly derailed us, but that was set up for us to fail by not managing goalie starts.

It took a long time for Markstrom to get back to snuff.

We should have learned this lesson when we lost Smith and Rittich in previous years.  

well, that’s the weird thing, we are ok with Montreal but get beat by Ottawa. So for some reason we fair better than some teams but not others (that we should be beating). 

[travel_dude]

11 hours ago, robrob74 said:

well, that’s the weird thing, we are ok with Montreal but get beat by Ottawa. So for some reason we fair better than some teams but not others (that we should be beating). 

 

The ;league doesn't really have teams that you should beat.  Teams like Ottawa go through cycles where they are really bad, good and really good.  One team managed to beat Ottawa all of their games, but that was the only team.  We should frett about losing to a team not in the playoffs, but Ottawa can be a tough draw at times.  We just found those times.

[jjgallow]

I am reading more heading into the draft and starting to wonder if I'm not the only one who thinks Ceulemans is under-rated.   To be fair, Coronato may be too.

 

I am starting to think one or both of them may be drafted a lot earlier than their current ranking.

 

Mulling in my mind where I want to support taking Ceulemans at 12th.  Not that it matters, it's just fun for me.   If he is as good as suspected then he could be that crucial piece we need to get back on track.

 

[travel_dude]

15 hours ago, jjgallow said:

I am reading more heading into the draft and starting to wonder if I'm not the only one who thinks Ceulemans is under-rated.   To be fair, Coronato may be too.

 

I am starting to think one or both of them may be drafted a lot earlier than their current ranking.

 

Mulling in my mind where I want to support taking Ceulemans at 12th.  Not that it matters, it's just fun for me.   If he is as good as suspected then he could be that crucial piece we need to get back on track.

 

 

Between 10 and 25 is a pretty wide range of talents available.

Who goes when will depend on a team's risk tolerance as much as the perhaps minor differences in the prospects.

Teams stacked with D all younger than 30 can risk a homerun/ground out.

Those needing an immediate impact will aim towards certain players.

Risers and fallers are the ones you need to be careful with.

A good tourney should not always be the basis of your choice.

Would you have picked or passed on Askarov based on his 2020 or 2021 WJC results? 

 

As much as the 1st rounder is important to us, I don't have the great fear we will pick the wrong guy.

I am concerned what we do with the 2nd and 3rds, since there will be a few guys that drop.

More Mangiapanes and less Hunter Smiths.

[conundrumed]

Having said that td, I can't help but wonder when Yzerman will take Wallstedt. #6?

He has 5 picks in the top 51 so room to maneuver with someone around our pick, philly or Rangers.

My vote is to take Wallstedt. Or we could be watching a rerun of Vasilevsky.

My feeling is Yzerman is in, "what do we need" mode, not bpa. See Moritz Seider. And he's deathly patient with prospects.

He's taken the team to ground level to build what he wants.

Getting a high calibre goalie in the draft is literally winning the draft. It's worth the risk or you pay through the teeth to get what's available for a good goalie in the future.

But it's the Flames. We were willing to wait 5 yrs for Jankowski while Vasi was establishing himself as the league's top goalie.