2021 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

[jjgallow]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Under Sutter the Flames drafted 9 players who played 200 games or more in the NHL. It was 8 drafts with an avg of 7.4 picks/draft. 

Treliving already has 3 with another 3 that will hit that mark this season and 1 of them just got named a Norris Trophy finalist. 7 Drafts with an avg of 6.1 picks/draft. 

 

Hardly a moot point.

 

So we are using Sutter as the standard to measure drafting success now?   cool

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Under Sutter the Flames drafted 9 players who played 200 games or more in the NHL. It was 8 drafts with an avg of 7.4 picks/draft. 

Treliving already has 3 with another 3 that will hit that mark this season and 1 of them just got named a Norris Trophy finalist. 7 Drafts with an avg of 6.1 picks/draft. 

 

Hardly a moot point.

 

To add to that, we certainly gave up a lot of picks and still had success.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

To add to that, we certainly gave up a lot of picks and still had success.

 

We never won the Cup.  All of it was fail.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

We never won the Cup.  All of it was fail.

Winning the cup was a 1 in 30/31 chance. The biggest concern should be only making the playoffs 4 times in 11 seasons and winning only 1 series in the same time frame.  That should put the microscope on the organization as a whole as opposed to any one GM/coach/player.....etc.

[travel_dude]

25 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

We never won the Cup.  All of it was fail.

 

In the last 12 seasons, only 7 different teams have won it.

 

[robrob74]

19 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

In the last 12 seasons, only 7 different teams have won it.

 

we want to be one of this 7 teams. And one that can win it every year. That’s the standard we are shooting for, not to be one of the (now) 24 teams that haven’t won it. 
 

how many are in the conversation almost every year. I guess I’d settle for that, the possibility of making it to the conference finals or the finals. The Flames haven’t been relevant for over 15 years. 
 

Maybe even more. The year they were 2nd overall, everyone called them out and said they weren’t contenders before the playoffs and said the way the team was built they couldn’t get it done or out of the first round. They were right.

 

we won one playoff series against a team that shouldn’t have been in the playoffs either (that year). The Canucks.

 

Pens won 2-3 cups, 

Chi won 3

Kings won 2

Caps

Blues

TBL

Bos

 

Wouldnt we want to be in those conversations? To be at close to that good? We aren’t close. We want to be close.

 

 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

we want to be one of this 7 teams. And one that can win it every year. That’s the standard we are shooting for, not to be one of the (now) 24 teams that haven’t won it. 
 

how many are in the conversation almost every year. I guess I’d settle for that, the possibility of making it to the conference finals or the finals. The Flames haven’t been relevant for over 15 years. 
 

Maybe even more. The year they were 2nd overall, everyone called them out and said they weren’t contenders before the playoffs and said the way the team was built they couldn’t get it done or out of the first round. They were right.

 

we won one playoff series against a team that shouldn’t have been in the playoffs either (that year). The Canucks.

 

Being a playoff contender is a different beast.

No one team is for more than a few years, and Tampa was swept in one of those years.

Are they one this year?  Yes, but pretty hard to beat a team with a $98m cap.

Yes, that is accurate.

 

Being a contender going into the playoffs is at the very least where we need to get to.

You can argue we never were in the year we were 2nd overall, but facing a hungry team in round 1 doesn't mean that.

STL wasn't a playoff contender the year they won.

 

Toronto and WPG were teams that should have done better.

They have even less success than us in the playoffs.

 

My point is that drafting a strong team is one thing. 

Building a team that regularly gets in the playoffs is the first step in the process.

Building the completion parts that gets them far is much tougher.

You really need two teams.

One that plays with enough skill to get a high seed.

One that plays in the gutters that has the fewest key injuries, to get past a round or three.

 

It's why so few teams repeat.  Tampa may get to the finals again.

Vegas could as well.

One team with a stellar goalie and $98m cap (this season only).

One team with a good goalie and enough top talent pilfered from other teams to get there. 

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Winning the cup was a 1 in 30/31 chance. The biggest concern should be only making the playoffs 4 times in 11 seasons and winning only 1 series in the same time frame.  That should put the microscope on the organization as a whole as opposed to any one GM/coach/player.....etc.

 

Who cares about the playoffs.  I'd rather miss the playoffs 10 times and then win the Cup once.  But that's just me.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Who cares about the playoffs.  I'd rather miss the playoffs 10 times and then win the Cup once.  But that's just me.

Hard to win a race if you cant make it to the starting line.

[jjgallow]

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/2021-final-draft-rankings

[The_People1]

56 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/2021-final-draft-rankings

 

Would love for Wallstedt to fall to us.  A few teams ahead of us really need a G though.  SJ, CHI, etc.  Too bad we are in win-now mode.

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Would love for Wallstedt to fall to us.  A few teams ahead of us really need a G though.  SJ, CHI, etc.  Too bad we are in win-now mode.

 

Me too.   I am terrified of this yes.  That he drops to us and we pass on him for a Left Winger.   I actually think him, and maybe one of the top 5 D will drop, and I'm terrified we'll pass on both.

 

Seeing more and more scouting reports with the top 4-5 D going very high.    Seeing more and more fan drafts where the skip D and G entirely lolz.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

Me too.   I am terrified of this yes.  That he drops to us and we pass on him for a Left Winger.   I actually think him, and maybe one of the top 5 D will drop, and I'm terrified we'll pass on both.

 

Seeing more and more scouting reports with the top 4-5 D going very high.    Seeing more and more fan drafts where the skip D and G entirely lolz.

 

The irony and cherry on top is of course, we draft one of Sillinger, Lucius, or McTavish... AND they also need 4 years to develop before they are NHL ready.

[Thebrewcrew]

I'm becoming a bigger and bigger fan of Coronato. 

 

They call him "The Bison" because of his willingness to go to the hard areas of the ice. Possesses a heavy, NHL caliber shot, I think his ability to score will translate.

 

We've talked about the Harvard thing previously, but at this point I'd have no issues if he was the pick at 12th. I think I like him more than Chaz Lucius at this point. 

[jjgallow]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

The irony and cherry on top is of course, we draft one of Sillinger, Lucius, or McTavish... AND they also need 4 years to develop before they are NHL ready.

 

To a certain degree yes, and this will be the downfall of drafting forwards first in a rebuild, we don't have a young Giordano waiting in the wings this time.   
It'll be 4 years before they develop and probably  6-7 years before we have a competitive situation on D/G.     Narrowing our cup window dramatically.   Their first few years of best performance will be wasted on a mis-structured team and by the time we fix it their salaries will be an issue.

 

Having said that of course you could trade them, so technically it doesn't matter, but we won't.      Truthfully I'm a BPA advocate but I think it's extremely hard to say that any of Sillinger, Lucius, or McTavish are of the same caliber as the top D in this draft.   You could say they're a better play than Wallstedt but I'd personally argue against that.

 

The D for sure take an extra ~2 years to develop imho.   I think it depends on your definition.  Like, when do they become impact players?  ~2 extra years for the D and G. on average.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I'm becoming a bigger and bigger fan of Coronato. 

 

They call him "The Bison" because of his willingness to go to the hard areas of the ice. Possesses a heavy, NHL caliber shot, I think his ability to score will translate.

 

We've talked about the Harvard thing previously, but at this point I'd have no issues if he was the pick at 12th. I think I like him more than Chaz Lucius at this point. 

 

I'm a big fan too, but, only because he was rated to go in the later picks of the first round.

 

Once you talk about him in the top 12 I think the conversation is more difficult, especially when someone very high-ranked will likely drop to us.

 

We need more picks.  We really do.   I will pray for some magic on draft day.

[travel_dude]

14 hours ago, jjgallow said:

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/2021-final-draft-rankings

 

SI seems to have a low opinion of Lysell and a high opinion of L'Hereux.

Not that I have ever believed half of what they write, but I find it interesting.

 

What I find even more interesting is that they only have 6 D in the top 20, and just 4 of them are top 12.

Hard to really argue against the makeup of the top 12, while placement is a bit more subjective.

 

 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

SI seems to have a low opinion of Lysell and a high opinion of L'Hereux.

Not that I have ever believed half of what they write, but I find it interesting.

 

What I find even more interesting is that they only have 6 D in the top 20, and just 4 of them are top 12.

Hard to really argue against the makeup of the top 12, while placement is a bit more subjective.

 

All I know for sure, is this is going to be known as the draft the scouts got wrong lol.    Not that I entirely blame them, what a wild evaluation.

 

I don't entirely disagree with the top 10, I might personally see 5 D in the top 10.   But I might see 6-7 by the 12th pick.

 

6 D in the top 20 is ludicrous, and this is telling.   Simply not possibly realistic.    There are many who will just never rate D or G high because they can't get their head around the concept of D itself.    And for that reason a D-heavy draft is always going to be a bit of a gong show, not even including Covid lol.

 

I don't have all the answers but I find this all fascinating.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

All I know for sure, is this is going to be known as the draft the scouts got wrong lol.    Not that I entirely blame them, what a wild evaluation.

 

I don't entirely disagree with the top 10, I might personally see 5 D in the top 10.   But I might see 6-7 by the 12th pick.

 

6 D in the top 20 is ludicrous, and this is telling.   Simply not possibly realistic.    There are many who will just never rate D or G high because they can't get their head around the concept of D itself.    And for that reason a D-heavy draft is always going to be a bit of a gong show, not even including Covid lol.

 

I don't have all the answers but I find this all fascinating.

 

5 years from now, a lot will look back and shake their heads.

But really, the 1st round will probably have most that become NHL players.

There will be a few that people go WTF, but they were probably risk/reward types over safe picks.

I think it's going to be one of those drafts where teams ignore some of these ratings and just pick what's right for them.

Teams with multiple picks will pick one from the list and then go way off the board.

 

I've never put much stock in SI.

Maybe they are really smart, but were they not really high on Ghost?

And that's the thing isn't it.

For every Weber, there are a bunch of Ghosts.

 

[Thebrewcrew]

Defence

 

Power will be going 1st.

Ron Francis played a big part in building Carolina. He did that from the backend out. 3 of his 5 1st round picks with Carolina were on D.

Luke Hughes likely ends up in NJ.

Ottawa and LA are loaded with forward prospects. SJ took 9 forwards last year. VAN needs RD.

I think there's an easy path for 4 D in the top 10.

 

Ceulemans and Lambos likely go in the 10-20 range

 

In the 20-30 range, Chayka, Svozil, Morrow, Behrens all have a chance in the 1st round. 

 

I think 7 or 8 D end up going by the end of night 1. 

[jjgallow]

24 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Defence

 

Power will be going 1st.

Ron Francis played a big part in building Carolina. He did that from the backend out. 3 of his 5 1st round picks with Carolina were on D.

Luke Hughes likely ends up in NJ.

Ottawa and LA are loaded with forward prospects. SJ took 9 forwards last year. VAN needs RD.

I think there's an easy path for 4 D in the top 10.

 

Ceulemans and Lambos likely go in the 10-20 range

 

In the 20-30 range, Chayka, Svozil, Morrow, Behrens all have a chance in the 1st round. 

 

I think 7 or 8 D end up going by the end of night 1. 

 

I would agree with that, and imho it should be more, but I'm expecting it to play out like this.   

 

Only thing is I would not be shocked if one of the top D drop to us.  It always has been and always will be an under-appreciated position.   Even moreso in a rare draft where they are plentiful.

[jjgallow]

52 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

5 years from now, a lot will look back and shake their heads.

But really, the 1st round will probably have most that become NHL players.

There will be a few that people go WTF, but they were probably risk/reward types over safe picks.

I think it's going to be one of those drafts where teams ignore some of these ratings and just pick what's right for them.

Teams with multiple picks will pick one from the list and then go way off the board.

 

I've never put much stock in SI.

Maybe they are really smart, but were they not really high on Ghost?

And that's the thing isn't it.

For every Weber, there are a bunch of Ghosts.

 

 

To be fair, I was absolutely blown away that Ghost cleared waivers.   If you look at his point per game average this year, or over his career, he would be our most productive defenceman if we had just...claimed him.  Mind.  blowing.   Is he an ideal D?   Well....no.   lol.  Injuries, lack of defensive development...incosnsistency etc.   But does he have Weber level talent?  Yeah I think so.   

 

So to your point, it's unbelievably hard to pick that out on draft night.

 

Other than, well, Weber being 6'4 and RHS  (Ghost kind of the opposite)

 

But let's be real, the top 10-20 D in this draft show way more early promise than either of them did.   For one that tells us life is a crapshoot but it does also tell us this is one heck of a draft

 

SI is crap

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

To be fair, I was absolutely blown away that Ghost cleared waivers.   If you look at his point per game average this year, or over his career, he would be our most productive defenceman if we had just...claimed him.  Mind.  blowing.   Is he an ideal D?   Well....no.   lol.  Injuries, lack of defensive development...incosnsistency etc.   But does he have Weber level talent?  Yeah I think so.   

 

So to your point, it's unbelievably hard to pick that out on draft night.

 

Other than, well, Weber being 6'4 and RHS  (Ghost kind of the opposite)

 

But let's be real, the top 10-20 D in this draft show way more early promise than either of them did.   For one that tells us life is a crapshoot but it does also tell us this is one heck of a draft

 

SI is crap

 

We agree.

 

Griffin Reinhart.

[jjgallow]

18 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

We agree.

 

Griffin Reinhart.

 

An excellent example.  I don't really know what to say there.  Looking at his numbers I would have pegged him as a late first round, possibly even early second round pick.   I mean he wasn't aweful by any stretch, even my ranking I would have gotten burned.     But 4th overall?

 

Didn't help that he literally peaked in his draft year and then the wheels just fell off.   I'm not sure why...maybe his injury he had around that time.

[travel_dude]

30 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

An excellent example.  I don't really know what to say there.  Looking at his numbers I would have pegged him as a late first round, possibly even early second round pick.   I mean he wasn't aweful by any stretch, even my ranking I would have gotten burned.     But 4th overall?

 

Didn't help that he literally peaked in his draft year and then the wheels just fell off.   I'm not sure why...maybe his injury he had around that time.

 

Admittedly, I don't make a very good judge of draft picks before the draft.

But I am also quite cautious.

D are hard to predict winners just based on stats.

Noah Dobson had insane numbers in the Q in two of four years.

Yet he is still a few years from suggesting he is a prize, assuming he becomes one.

Worth more than Hamonic yes.

 

To put it in perspective, Dobson outscored every single top D prospect listed, even if I consider Power and Edvinsson a tier above.

Not a normal draft year I get.