UFA 2020, Who’d You Sign?

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

4 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Lol nope BT is just not interested omg getting any kind of superstar for this team...I’m shocked and a feel a bit betrayed they BT May not have the best interest of this team After hearing he basic didn’t even bother making an offer to Hall!

 

unless he has something brewing in a wow type trade I’m no longer confident in BT.   This is very disturbing to hear...just to be clear BT did not even try (submit a zoom pitch so same thing)!!!!!!

 

the worst part of the Hall to Buf signing I get the sense he wanted Cgy to make an off I offer..1 year deal? Waited till late Sunday to pull the trigger...I get a sense he’s have signed a 4or5 year deal or maybe longer at 6.5 aav 

 

anyway, hi this debacle mess up, dropping of the ball on Hall by BT, what if any options are out there that BT could do that would make up for this? A power drier line RW? Are any available? cause I will say this Toffoil and or Hoffman etc are nowhere close, the are a distant plan b kinda bandaid or

patch filling a hock approach so suggestions? 

- that seems a little over dramatic. Like said above cant bring any $ in if theres no $ out.

 

- Signing with Buffalo showed that $ is his driving factor, not winning like he's been quoted previously so hometown discount of $6-6.5 mil? Very unlikely.  He'll want even more next season.

 

- I'm glad Hall is somewhere else. He's not worth $8 mil.

 

 

[tmac70]

This whole process is some what perplexing. The goal is to improve the team as a whole. We got arguably the best goalie in UFA, but without improvements to the people in front you have improved nothing. All we have done is put more pressure on Markstrom to carry the load. Based on what we know it appears we have not improve but digressed. Would it not have been better to allocate money to stabilize the d and add to the forward group with a resign of Talbot. Our goal tending was overall not the issue last season it was a poor group in front, from which you lost, Brodie, Reider, Janko, Hammer. Replaced them with Tanev, Robinson and Rinaldo look out world, I can just see the rest of the league trembling in fear when the see this roster, I know it scares me 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JTech780]

It just feels like this team still needs a shakeup. Brodie out and Tanev in, isn't quite the shakeup this team needs. Getting Markstrom is great and he alone makes this team better, but this team still needs more from the top 6 and sticking with the top 6 from last year is a mistake.

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

It just feels like this team still needs a shakeup. Brodie out and Tanev in, isn't quite the shakeup this team needs. Getting Markstrom is great and he alone makes this team better, but this team still needs more from the top 6 and sticking with the top 6 from last year is a mistake.

but what if the options to “fix” the top 6 are making a bad deal on Monahan or Gaudreau?

 

because personally that’s where I think we are right now. Are we ok with change for the sake of change that may not make it better?

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

but what if the options to “fix” the top 6 are making a bad deal on Monahan or Gaudreau?

 

because personally that’s where I think we are right now. 

 

And that is fair, I am just ok with it at this point, because I have zero faith in the current group to get anything done when the games matter the most. I am just hoping for addition by subtraction.

 

Standing pat for another season is a waste at this point. I think there is a strong chance that if we had Markstrom last year we probably beat Dallas, but that doesn't mean the team was good, I just think having good goaltending covers some holes.

 

The real issue was that the top 6 was nowhere to be found in the series against Dallas, just as they were against Colorado the year before.

 

Gaudreau and Monahan's value isn't going to be any better next season.

 

I know the team says you don't make a trade for the sake of change, but I think that's exactly what needs to be done.

[MP5029]

33 minutes ago, cross16 said:

but what if the options to “fix” the top 6 are making a bad deal on Monahan or Gaudreau?

 

because personally that’s where I think we are right now. Are we ok with change for the sake of change that may not make it better?

 
 

the big issue is we are LW heavy and Mostly because of one guy...Lucic 

 

which I have to wonder, is Neil’s contract as buyout proof as Lucic’s? You would have to think that would have been a better option.  
 

now having said this, if Lucic was the Lucic of Bos I’d be ok with that even, as we could easily move Gaudreau for a RW and have Lucic cover 2nd line LW but he is barely holding in on the 3rd line at a top 6 salary...and that the issue 

 

again, of all the players not eating their contract it’s Lucic, and I feel for him as he’s a top notch guy, he is holding the team back and he will for some time now.

 

ryan is a bit of a different story, yes he’s a bit over paid but he’s still effective and although he is being paid as a top level 3rd liner on the 4th that’s not nearly as bad as the Lucic situation...and if not for Lucic, Ryan’s salary would be fine, the two become a compounding issue.

 

added to all this Gio is not a Norris or even top pair D, though admittedly still solid, his age is seriously catching up to him and is not even close to being worth 6.5...but those are the risks to signing a long term contract with players, and it was a really good deal at the time but we are now gonna suffer some

depreciation value I’ve the last few years Of this contract...but still

 

the ultimate issue is Neil was a bad signing which I screamed blue murder about, and turned out to be spot on about...and then BT made it way worse with Bringing in Lucic...which to be quite honest is he were a RS RW I’d even still be willing to be ok with cause he would be at least a big body net driver for the 2nd line even if he’s not producing...We already had JG and Tachuck so why Lucic? 

 

the point is Nothing about the Lucic made as sense and now we are paying the price with absolutely no RW past Lindholm...

 

im ok with Tanev, I’m not ok with loosing Brodie or Janko he would have been perfect on the 4th and would have allowed us to move Ryan for maybe a 3rd line prospect RW which in its self would be an overall improvement, what we have now is an improved G, lateral improvements on the D, tougher and harder to play against but lacking offence generation (which would be fine if..) and a forward core that has not pop or net drive whatsoever, especially on the Right side Is  super weak and thin.

 

so have we improved? No

 

have we gotten worse? Probably not

 

are we gonna get better? No

 

thats where BT has the team as of now. That’s what Sutter and Feaster did to us and we needed to bring Burke in to clean up the mess, who’s gonna clean up this mess, a few years after Burke left and BT has made a mess of things without Burke’s guidance 🙄

I have to say BT completely pooped the bed on Hall, not even making an effort for a guy that is exactly what the team needs, JG as much as I love the guy is

 

 Tradable, no Clauses, very reasonable contract and Most any team 

would take him

 

Halls is more of a play driver and hard to the net which we badly need. and JG could return some assets of some kind to either fix now or fix later on the RW

 

this Hall thing is a huge Blunder, that BT has best have an ace up his sleeve in terms of a blow your socks off trade in the pipe line or he’s gotta go, landing Markstrom is not a huge accomplishment for 6m, now had he landed him for like 4.5 then I’d say he did good but 6m was the going rate, so he only really paid top dollar for a guy who wanted to be here...that’s not stellar work at all!

 

[MP5029]

39 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

- that seems a little over dramatic. Like said above cant bring any $ in if theres no $ out.

 

- Signing with Buffalo showed that $ is his driving factor, not winning like he's been quoted previously so hometown discount of $6-6.5 mil? Very unlikely.  He'll want even more next season.

 

- I'm glad Hall is somewhere else. He's not worth $8 mil.

 

 

Ha I disagree on Hall, he was quoted as saying “Calgary showed interest before the Markstrom signing” after “Calgary never submitted a Zoom pitch” 

 

that is not on Hall, if anything it shows he wanted a pitch from Cgy, and probably would have taken it, it sounded like to

me he was just waiting for Cgy, and because he didn’t get one he opted for a 1 year deal to make some coin...I can’t blame him

[cross16]

29 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

And that is fair, I am just ok with it at this point, because I have zero faith in the current group to get anything done when the games matter the most. I am just hoping for addition by subtraction.

 

Standing pat for another season is a waste at this point. I think there is a strong chance that if we had Markstrom last year we probably beat Dallas, but that doesn't mean the team was good, I just think having good goaltending covers some holes.

 

The real issue was that the top 6 was nowhere to be found in the series against Dallas, just as they were against Colorado the year before.

 

Gaudreau and Monahan's value isn't going to be any better next season.

 

I know the team says you don't make a trade for the sake of change, but I think that's exactly what needs to be done.

thata fair and it was an open ended question as I’m genuinely curious of the opinions on it. 
 

I am an advocate for change for sure but I’m also in the camp that it has to make sense. Making a bad deal for those two in particular likely moves this team back and not forward and really makes things rough around here. I wasn’t here at the end of the season but I’m at the point now where if the options are making bad deals just to make change and keeping things the same I’d keep it he same. Take your better goaltending, better d core, get experimental with your forward group and system and I think this team is still capable of doing something. 
 

but also completely get the other side of that too and feel it’s fair some just want change. Arguments to be made both ways. 

[Thebrewcrew]

6 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

 
 

the big issue is we are LW heavy and Mostly because of one guy...Lucic 

 

Neal for Lucic was absolutely the right call. Remember how bad Neal was in Calgary? Remember that this supposedly "veteran leader" was scratched in game 5 of the Colorado series. There's a reason that Neal has bounced around as much as he has.... A buyout was likely never an option for Neal as that would be 8yrs on the payroll.

 

The Flames are also paying Lucic less than Neal. Sure, Lucic is overpaid, but he brings a heck of a lot more value to the Flames than Neal ever did. 

[MP5029]

4 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Neal for Lucic was absolutely the right call. Remember how bad Neal was in Calgary? Remember that this supposedly "veteran leader" was scratched in game 5 of the Colorado series. There's a reason that Neal has bounced around as much as he has.... A buyout was likely never an option for Neal as that would be 8yrs on the payroll.

 

The Flames are also paying Lucic less than Neal. Sure, Lucic is overpaid, but he brings a heck of a lot more value to the Flames than Neal ever did. 

 Except one thing, Neil could have been bout out Lucic can’t, it actually hurts us more to do that, I’m pretty sure if we had kept Neil we would have been able to buy him out and save a fair bit against the cap 

[Thebrewcrew]

3 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

 Except one thing, Neil could have been bout out Lucic can’t, it actually hurts us more to do that, I’m pretty sure if we had kept Neil we would have been able to buy him out and save a fair bit against the cap 

I don't see the Flames ownership giving that the green light though. Revenues are tight, right now that's a buyout that you're on the hook for 6 years, last year it was 8. 

 

Lucic is an example of making the best of a bad situation.

[phoenix66]

3 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

 Except one thing, Neil could have been bout out Lucic can’t, it actually hurts us more to do that, I’m pretty sure if we had kept Neil we would have been able to buy him out and save a fair bit against the cap 

save 3.8,   but still count almost $2M   for 8 years at the time.. 6years if you did it now..

thats extremely bad management . Especially considering we still have almost 3 on the books next season , and 1.5 after that 

[cross16]

8 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

 Except one thing, Neil could have been bout out Lucic can’t, it actually hurts us more to do that, I’m pretty sure if we had kept Neil we would have been able to buy him out and save a fair bit against the cap 

unlikely. Buying out Neal this year would have cost almost 12 million dollars and carry a dead cap hit of 2 million for the next 6 years. I don’t think that the ownership group would have given the ok for that, which is exactly why the Flames made the deal in the first place. 

[MP5029]

2 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

save 3.8,   but still count almost $2M   for 8 years at the time.. 6years if you did it now..

thats extremely bad management . Especially considering we still have almost 3 on the books next season , and 1.5 after that 

well not really if you want to win, Lucic is eating up 5.something...

 

so take away the 2mil cap hit your actually saving 3.5 or something like that and Lucic’s air tight contract is for how long? Another 3 which is when the “core” window Is up, so 3.5 would be extremely help right now..if your commitment to wining is true

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, MP5029 said:

well not really if you want to win, Lucic is eating up 5.something...

 

so take away the 2mil cap hit your actually saving 3.5 or something like that and Lucic’s air tight contract is for how long? Another 3 which is when the “core” window Is up, so 3.5 would be extremely help right now..if your commitment to wining is true

I dont know if you noticed but Lucic was one of our best players in post season .. im not even sure we beat Winnipeg without him .

[MP5029]

The only other way to make the Lucic/Neil mess better would be to double down on Lucic...which could be a good option, but it’s a huge risk, which at this point may be worth it:

 

1. move a Tachuck to the top line

2. Move Lucic to the 2nd line 

3.trade Gaudreau for either a top 6 RW (not a good chance for that though, most teams are having the same issue lots of good LW but thin on RW) OR get some decent prospects at any position and a 1st round pic..basically Get a max value asset return on Gaudreau now

while we can.

 

this is kinda making the best of a bad situation, it’s risky but, what we have now is too, the only difference is in 3years we could see something for the loss of Gaudreau 

[MP5029]

5 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I dont know if you noticed but Lucic was one of our best players in post season .. im not even sure we beat Winnipeg without him .

 

yes I did but Neil was a scoring machine in Edm for a while too, and it didn’t help against Dal so a few game hot streak against a watered down WPG team is not really all that impressive...what did he do for the rest of the year, took up room on the bench and the cap pretty much that’s all he did.

[phoenix66]

Just now, MP5029 said:

 

yes I did but Neil was a scoring machine in Edm for a while too, and it didn’t help against Dal so a few game hot streak against a watered down WPG team is not really all that impressive...what did he do for the rest of the year, took up room on the bench and the cap pretty much that’s all he did.

who do ya want .. the guy that scores when it doesnt matter .and gets benched in big games.. or the guy you use as best you can for 80 games who becomes a difference maker when they mean something ?

 

[MP5029]

Just now, phoenix66 said:

who do ya want .. the guy that scores when it doesnt matter .and gets benched in big games.. or the guy you use as best you can for 80 games who becomes a difference maker when they mean something ?

 

Well that sure wasn’t Lucic either as Dal won so it’s a moot point...I’d rather have had a guy I could save 3.5 mil Over the next 3 years by buy out And use it towards a top 6 Rw where we really need the money spent instead of 5.xx on the 3rd line LW which we actually have a great guy to play there by the name of Manji making that line better and it’s his natural position, instead of forcing him to his off wing

[JTech780]

Neal would have been such a cancer in the room if he was here last season, I doubt we would have made the playoffs, and if we did we would have been taken out by the Jets in the play in round.

 

Neal was far and away the worst player to ever pull on the Flaming C

[MP5029]

15 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Neal would have been such a cancer in the room if he was here last season, I doubt we would have made the playoffs, and if we did we would have been taken out by the Jets in the play in round.

 

Neal was far and away the worst player to ever pull on the Flaming C

How many of you guys were all for the Neil signing? I remember taking a ton of heat for being opposed to him when he was signed, I should look back on the forum...? 

 

the smart play would have been to just buy Neil out and take the 2mil cap hit we would have 3.5 mil free now, last year and for the next 3, granted it would bite us for another 2 but that’s after our core has either proved the can succeed or they can’t, as it stands now, we are not Giving them a chance with only 1RW who is not even a true RW but a Ctr Convert...

 

how is Lucic over Neil or any of this good asset management? It’s quite the opposite and it’s getting worse, not better we are plugging one hole by opening 2 even though we had 3 to start with...

 

the more I look at things, and as much as I hate the idea, moving Gaudreau for at the very least some future assets makes the most sense...least we could hope Lucic has a re-discover by playing on the2nd line...if not it’s nothing really worse thane where we are now, and maybe just maybe we could land aRW in a gaudreau trade, which in and of its self may not be an actual improvement but it would definitely be no worse

 

Tachuck/Monahan/Lindholm 

Lucic/Backlund/????Trade???FA Toffoil 

Manji/Bennet/ Dube or whoever 

????/Ryan/????

 

not a great situation but in theory it could work and if we grabbed a 1/2 decent RW heck even Toffoil may work with Lucic as long as we don’t over pay, Lucic driving the play in, Backlund’s ability to get and hold the puck with Toffoil’s net driving may click well? May? 

[ABC923]

Many fan generated lineups for the oilers next season don’t even have Neal on it. They don’t like him much more than we did at this point.

[MP5029]

2 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Many fan generated lineups for the oilers next season don’t even have Neal on it. They don’t like him much more than we did at this point.

he was an incredibly bad signing, many of us seen it before he even pulled on the flaming C...anyway it’s a moot point Edm would be wise to buy him out and use the money now and suck up an extra 2 year loss on cap hit, by then it may be less of an issue, cap souls be up in 4-5 years so they just need to suck up a few years of a 2mil cap deficit...

 

 

[pikey7883]

Everyone keeps saying trade Gaudreau for a top RW, and I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. What if we moved him to the offwing? Two players who are akin to him are Patrick Kane and Artemi Panarin. All three undersized (albeit not a s small as Johnny) the other two play their offwing and dominate. I watched some YouTube this morning of some of johnnys highlight reel plays, and there are enough of them that generate when he is coming up the right side and makes a power move to the inside. He also has a very good shot and would open up his one timer on that side. My thought is what if the top 6 looked like.

Mang - Money - Lindholm

Tkachuk - Benny - Johnny

 

Mangiapane is not as good as Johnny, but he has a similar skill set with more tenacity. Does that make that line worse or more or less equal.

Benny and Tkachuk have high compete levels, and will drag JH into the fight, and will protect him. 
I think it could be a good fit.

 

PS a trade with NYR to get Gauthier

and have a third line of Dube - Backs - Gauthier will definitely help the top 9 to have a very balanced attack.

 

[MP5029]

29 minutes ago, pikey7883 said:

Everyone keeps saying trade Gaudreau for a top RW, and I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. What if we moved him to the offwing? Two players who are akin to him are Patrick Kane and Artemi Panarin. All three undersized (albeit not a s small as Johnny) the other two play their offwing and dominate. I watched some YouTube this morning of some of johnnys highlight reel plays, and there are enough of them that generate when he is coming up the right side and makes a power move to the inside. He also has a very good shot and would open up his one timer on that side. My thought is what if the top 6 looked like.

Mang - Money - Lindholm

Tkachuk - Benny - Johnny

 

Mangiapane is not as good as Johnny, but he has a similar skill set with more tenacity. Does that make that line worse or more or less equal.

Benny and Tkachuk have high compete levels, and will drag JH into the fight, and will protect him. 
I think it could be a good fit.

 

PS a trade with NYR to get Gauthier

and have a third line of Dube - Backs - Gauthier will definitely help the top 9 to have a very balanced attack.

 

I like this especially the Gauthier option he’s a really good fit on a 3rd line...

 

only three issues...

 

1. will ward do it?

2. Do we have anything NYR would want in a trade, that won’t kill our already thing prospect pool?

3. Where do you play Lucic? 4th line with Ryan? And if Ryan is the asset for Gauthier, who’s playing the 4th line with Lucic? 
 

otherwise this would be an amazing options and idea!  Heck even without getting Gauthier, the top 6 shuffle could be just the trick!