Geoff Ward, Flames 18 th coach

[JTech780]

14 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Kris Versteeg with some interesting comments on Ward this morning. Feels he is holding the team back and talks about many of the same gripes many of us have. Bad breakouts, passive systems, poor utilization etc. 

 

Also mentions he's a big believer in the players in that room. Starts at about the 11 minute mark. 

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/boomer-morning/kris-versteeg-talks-canadiens-coaching-change-flames/

 

It's nice to hear a former player share the same concerns as us. 

 

I was a little surprised about his comments about the core, but he is probably still close to the group and isn't going to say anything negative about guys he is still friends with.

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

I just don't see the buzz with Julien. He's barely over .500 with the Habs in his tenure, he's missed the playoffs more than he's made them recently (including the Bruins) and the Bruins have been significantly better since he left. 

 

While I am surprised by his firing, most people in Montreal are not. FWIW, this year outside of playing the Canucks the Habs are .500. 

 

Not advocating staying with Ward is a better option, because he is not, but Julien isn't that great a coach IMO. Certainly not worth getting excited about and would not be something I would see making things better around here. 

I dinno! I get numbers are going to look bad, but they’ve been a team of Price bailing them out. Without Price they’d have been last in the league for how many years? And I just don’t think you can blame it all on coaching. Their players just have not been that great. They remind me of a dumbed down flames of old, one or two really good players and others. Like Paches was their Iginla and Subban was their JBo. Maybe they had others, but they basically had a sucky team. I don’t think it is fair to always blame it on the coach. 
 

we say Hartley sucked, but never mention how he coached in the very start of a rebuild, coaches are gonna suck if the team is in a rebuild. 
 

now not saying they’re the best coaches or necessarily good but I feel it is just a tad unfair to pin their records against coaches who have had better opportunities (better player options).

[cross16]

20 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I dinno! I get numbers are going to look bad, but they’ve been a team of Price bailing them out. Without Price they’d have been last in the league for how many years? And I just don’t think you can blame it all on coaching. Their players just have not been that great. They remind me of a dumbed down flames of old, one or two really good players and others. Like Paches was their Iginla and Subban was their JBo. Maybe they had others, but they basically had a sucky team. I don’t think it is fair to always blame it on the coach. 
 

we say Hartley sucked, but never mention how he coached in the very start of a rebuild, coaches are gonna suck if the team is in a rebuild. 
 

now not saying they’re the best coaches or necessarily good but I feel it is just a tad unfair to pin their records against coaches who have had better opportunities (better player options).

 

I don't, I've just never been impressed with Julien as a coach. The Montreal record is one thing but he missed the playoffs back to back years in Boston and Boston has been a power in the East after they let him go with little in the way of personnel changes. 

 

As I said i was surprised by the news because I don't think Montreal's talent level is that great so I'm not sure he deserved this but at the same time many local writers and people I respect are not questioning it. I'm just saying I don't personally view him as a high end coach. I feel he is very rigid in what he wants to do, makes pretty questionable decisions with players and utilization, and his special teams are often not great. 

 

He won a cup yes, but in a pretty different era. I don't think he's as strong a coach in this era and for me I would not want to see him brought in as I don't think he would fix anything here. 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

It's nice to hear a former player share the same concerns as us. 

 

I was a little surprised about his comments about the core, but he is probably still close to the group and isn't going to say anything negative about guys he is still friends with.

 

To be fair, I think he is being honest.  He doesn't know about how things boiled up into the players only meeting, so there may be something with Tkachuk and Bennett that is causing a rift in the room.  But I don't think that is causing on ice issues for players as much as it may be Tkachuk dialing back the nastiness just a bit.

 

When I hear a former player that was part of the room, as well as him seeing the usage during the playoffs and this year, I think it's a fair thing to say that the coach is missing the point.  We had last change during the playoffs for 3 games, yet we failed to give the high ground to offensive players.

 

My issues with Ward are the following:

• not sure what criteria he uses to bring in or take out players.
• he does not adjust in the games, other than using a line blender. 
• he's using the blender once we have fallen behind, and when he does, he is not changing how he deploys the line, just one or two players on it.

I'm not interested in Julien.  I have no issue with changing the coach at all.  There is certainly a lot of precedent for doing it.  It would need to be a professional coach that we expect to keep for multiple years.  He would also have the option to replace all of the assistants by next season.

 

[travel_dude]

I think tonight's game was a good indication of what you should expect frm this team this year.

Low event, sitting back, prevent hockey.

It seems to work against the skilled players and dumbs it down to gritty players.

And we wonder why we don't score much?

 

This is the 2nd year of Wardo hockey.

The playoffs were the blueprint for this season.

It was not a successful playoffs or one where I felt that coaching was doing anything positive.

[rickross]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I think tonight's game was a good indication of what you should expect frm this team this year.

Low event, sitting back, prevent hockey.

It seems to work against the skilled players and dumbs it down to gritty players.

And we wonder why we don't score much?

 

This is the 2nd year of Wardo hockey.

The playoffs were the blueprint for this season.

It was not a successful playoffs or one where I felt that coaching was doing anything positive.

Yup..looks like this is about it. It didn’t work in the playoffs and it’s not working now. The players play with absolutely zero swagger. Scoring goals for this team requires maximum effort and some lucky breaks. Ward has this team playing a pretty robotic game, there’s very little creativity Ward seems to instill if any. 

[LouCifer]

Captain obvious would point out that Ward was passed over for Gully years ago. But now he's right for the job? Clearly there's something else at play here ($)

[rickross]

2 hours ago, lou44291 said:

Captain obvious would point out that Ward was passed over for Gully years ago. But now he's right for the job? Clearly there's something else at play here ($)

I mean the only thing I could imagine is that management was scared to take any additional spending risks due to covid. Ward has a Stanley Cup on his resume so there’s “value” to what he brings. I just find it hard to see them want to limit the teams potential by cheating out on a coach. I’m sure Ward is a great person, and probably is a good coach in his own right. He’s just not the right coach for this team. 

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, rickross said:

I mean the only thing I could imagine is that management was scared to take any additional spending risks due to covid. Ward has a Stanley Cup on his resume so there’s “value” to what he brings. I just find it hard to see them want to limit the teams potential by cheating out on a coach. I’m sure Ward is a great person, and probably is a good coach in his own right. He’s just not the right coach for this team. 

 

This is the kind of decision making I don't understand.

You go out and commit to Tanev and Markstrom for long term, possibly risky deals for guys in their 30's.

Was there no thought to the idea that a real NHL coach might have made a difference?

I mean, they decided to keep the same players, so they must have felt it wasn't a player issue.

[cross16]

3 hours ago, lou44291 said:

Captain obvious would point out that Ward was passed over for Gully years ago. But now he's right for the job? Clearly there's something else at play here ($)

 

Yup. Not only did he pass him over then, he had an opportunity to make him the permanent coach right after Peters and made him interim. Had a opportunity to take that interim tag off prior the play in (an honestly it probably would have gone over fine at the time) but didn't. Then he took a month to name him the permanent coach after the Flames lost to Dallas. 

 

Doesn't feel like a decision making process you go through for a person you really believe in. 

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Yup. Not only did he pass him over then, he had an opportunity to make him the permanent coach right after Peters and made him interim. Had a opportunity to take that interim tag off prior the play in (an honestly it probably would have gone over fine at the time) but didn't. Then he took a month to name him the permanent coach after the Flames lost to Dallas. 

 

Doesn't feel like a decision making process you go through for a person you really believe in. 

Well said cross. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Yup. Not only did he pass him over then, he had an opportunity to make him the permanent coach right after Peters and made him interim. Had a opportunity to take that interim tag off prior the play in (an honestly it probably would have gone over fine at the time) but didn't. Then he took a month to name him the permanent coach after the Flames lost to Dallas. 

 

Doesn't feel like a decision making process you go through for a person you really believe in. 

 

There was not even a single available coach mentioned as being interviewed that I can recall.

Sounds like we took a month to have people try to convince BT that it was a mistake to name him head coach.

[LouCifer]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

There was not even a single available coach mentioned as being interviewed that I can recall.

Sounds like we took a month to have people try to convince BT that it was a mistake to name him head coach.

I just posted in the blow it up thread that you can only interview or acquire coaches/players that have a desire to be in Calgary. Perhaps there were slim pickings, or, available coaches weren’t willing to commit to us beyond this year with the Kraken opportunity up and coming. Many factors at play here. 

[travel_dude]

28 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

I just posted in the blow it up thread that you can only interview or acquire coaches/players that have a desire to be in Calgary. Perhaps there were slim pickings, or, available coaches weren’t willing to commit to us beyond this year with the Kraken opportunity up and coming. Many factors at play here. 

 

If coach A says he hasn't been contacted by any team, does that lead you to believe he's told them not interested?

 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

There was not even a single available coach mentioned as being interviewed that I can recall.

Sounds like we took a month to have people try to convince BT that it was a mistake to name him head coach.

 

To me it sounds more like we had a month to evaluate the COVID impact on the bottom line and decide how much $ they were willing to pay a coach and how much Ward was willing to take as a head coach (versus another options). All it takes is one phone call to the agent of another coach to know what their price tag is going to be.  The announcement of Ward as the head coach also came out shortly after the organization cut pay by 20% (or something like that). 

 

I could be wrong, but that's where reading the tea leaves has always led me. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

To me it sounds more like we had a month to evaluate the COVID impact on the bottom line and decide how much $ they were willing to pay a coach and how much Ward was willing to take as a head coach (versus another options). All it takes is one phone call to the agent of another coach to know what their price tag is going to be.  The announcement of Ward as the head coach also came out shortly after the organization cut pay by 20% (or something like that). 

 

I could be wrong, but that's where reading the tea leaves has always led me. 

I wasn't being serious.

There isn't a coach scout that provides opinions on our coaching.

Maybe there should have been.

[dieselmarble]

Who would want to try to fix this Train Wreck

[ABC923]

I actually don’t think coach pay was a problem this year. If ownership was that concerned about penny pinching we would have just res-signed Talbot and held off on Tanev. The salary for those two dwarfs whatever you would pay a coach. Unfortunately it may be that nobody wanted to come here. That would be pretty likely for any coach living in the states, as they would be completely unable to see family living down there all season (and no one could come visit them).  The fact we waited so long to confirm Ward tells me Tre explored every avenue trying to upgrade the coach.

[rickross]

Not sure what there is to wait on at this point. It’s just not working with Ward and that’s clear as day now. This team is becoming a revolving door for coaches which is never a good sign but something has to be done. Morale is obviously low, they need to stop the bleeding before the damage is irreversible 

[travel_dude]

43 minutes ago, rickross said:

Not sure what there is to wait on at this point. It’s just not working with Ward and that’s clear as day now. This team is becoming a revolving door for coaches which is never a good sign but something has to be done. Morale is obviously low, they need to stop the bleeding before the damage is irreversible 

 

Well, consider that BP was the only coach to have any success, who actually knew something about coaching.

Wasn't a hairboy with no knowledge of the game.

Wasn't a mid-season replacement for a coach.

Tried something diferent when the Flame were blown out in the playoffs.

Maybe some misplaced decisions, but could have turned the team around.

 

So, recent history would suggest that an old school coach that ran out of magic was replaced.

A dink that had no clue about coaching was ired.

A coach quit.

Really two hiring mistakes and one that quit.

And one that was past his prime.

 

I care not about the iea that the team is uncoachable.

I think that is overblown.

It does seem that skill is not a good quality in this coach's mind.

You need to be able to grind.

 

[ABC923]

We are a team whose top players are built for fast strike offence on the rush, with great shots and some excellent passers. What we don’t have are grinders, players who win pucks out of the corners and cause turnovers (exception goes to Mang). So we are playing a dump and chase style, effectively forgoing the rush altogether. Brilliant.

[The_People1]

Ward is the perfect coach for tanking.  Players will get so sick of him that once we are done tanking in 2 years, we go get a new coach and players will love the new guy no matter what.

[LouCifer]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Ward is the perfect coach for tanking.  Players will get so sick of him that once we are done tanking in 2 years, we go get a new coach and players will love the new guy no matter what.

If that's the case, I worry about the negative impact he'll have on the development and growth of players like Andersson, Valimaki, Dube, etc. in that time. Hopefully we can reverse the damage done... 

[cupthug89]

Ward still has a job today wow , fully expected a move , this franchise is asleep at the wheel , time for a new general manager 

[cross16]

15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Ward is the perfect coach for tanking.  Players will get so sick of him that once we are done tanking in 2 years, we go get a new coach and players will love the new guy no matter what.

 

Sad, but very true statement. 

 

In this short season this might be the way to go.