Blockbuster: Hamilton Ferland Fox for Hanifin Lindholm

[Squilliam89]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I've always wondered if it fell apart because everyone realized they were going to get what they want. EDM apparently was drafting D all the way and only changed course because Puljujarvi was there, and Friedman mentioned once that apparently Van let it be known they wanted D too. So I wonder if it just came down to everyone realizing they were going to get what they want and they didn't need to make any deals.

 

 

I don't doubt the tried but that's an awful deal IMO at least. I don't love the trade, but i would greatly prefer it to that one. 

 

I can't believe some of your are thinking Puuj and the 10th OA would be a better deal than what we got. Many of us are not giving enough credit to Noah Hanifin and Elias Lindholm. Hanifin Could be our best dman as early as next season ( he's progressed every year), he's only 21 and Elias instantly becomes our top RWer, who can also kill penaltes and play centre if need be. I truly believe  we got better AND younger- quite excited for the next week to see what else we do. 

 

 

[cccsberg]

4 minutes ago, Squilliam89 said:

 

I can't believe some of your are thinking Puuj and the 10th OA would be a better deal than what we got. Many of us are not giving enough credit to Noah Hanifin and Elias Lindholm. Hanifin Could be our best dman as early as next season ( he's progressed every year), he's only 21 and Elias instantly becomes our top RWer, who can also kill penaltes and play centre if need be. I truly believe  we got better AND younger- quite excited for the next week to see what else we do. 

 

 

Agree completely.  Now, who might be available that was an RFA but not qualified?  Cassels from the Canucks, maybe?

[Squilliam89]

48 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Agree completely.  Now, who might be available that was an RFA but not qualified?  Cassels from the Canucks, maybe?

Duclair???

[cross16]

54 minutes ago, Squilliam89 said:

 

I can't believe some of your are thinking Puuj and the 10th OA would be a better deal than what we got.

 

 

To clarify, I said the opposite.

[The_People1]

 

[Cowtownguy]

17 hours ago, robrob74 said:

If I were Hamilton I’d be pissed too. You have a player in Brouwer essentially playing his spot on the PP and NOT getting points, and having to watch a dismal one from the bench. I am surprised a lot more don’t want out after the use of Brouwer last year. I’d be thinking that if they don’t like what I can bring to the team then I am gone. How much can you take? 50 games if watching yet bring the best option for that spot.

I imagine that Monahan must get cranky sometimes. The dude was falling apart last season and still had to be pulled off the ice by management. Meanwhile, a few tools on the team decide to give up and snag a noon mani and pedi 6 weeks before the end of the season. Then, Monahan is questioned about being a #1 centre.

[robrob74]

8 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I imagine that Monahan must get cranky sometimes. The dude was falling apart last season and still had to be pulled off the ice by management. Meanwhile, a few tools on the team decide to give up and snag a noon mani and pedi 6 weeks before the end of the season. Then, Monahan is questioned about being a #1 centre.

 

Hahaha

 

you don’t get it. It’s like his services to the organizations weren’t being recognized. The team is losing because the Blockchaining coach was a tool! You could help the team win but the coach doesn’t put you in. He’s confident in his abilities enough to know that he’d help the team win but isn’t used. I get it. He’s healthy. He’s young. And Blockchain, he wants to help get the team a win.

 

So he soured on the coach and the organization. It’s proven this club has not handled their young players very well. We are lucky Bennett hasn’t asked for a deal. Or others. 

 

Earn it? Hamilton earned it. He should’ve played PP. Maybe the brother thing took it over the edge for him. But I’d want out too. Maybe it would have been different with BP as the new coach though. But Hamilton wanted out. That’s fine. 

 

I never liked Hamilton, so this is me seeing his side. He’s gifted offensively but I’d like him to step in front of a few guys while playing D.

 

That’s how I see Monahan as well. He’s tough in other ways, like you just said, but I’d love him to let guys know that he is there. Maybe he doesn’t get broken by other teams sticks if he was a little meaner.

[Cowtownguy]

9 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Hahaha

 

you don’t get it. It’s like his services to the organizations weren’t being recognized. The team is losing because the Blockchaining coach was a tool! You could help the team win but the coach doesn’t put you in. He’s confident in his abilities enough to know that he’d help the team win but isn’t used. I get it. He’s healthy. He’s young. And Blockchain, he wants to help get the team a win.

 

So he soured on the coach and the organization. It’s proven this club has not handled their young players very well. We are lucky Bennett hasn’t asked for a deal. Or others. 

 

Earn it? Hamilton earned it. He should’ve played PP. Maybe the brother thing took it over the edge for him. But I’d want out too. Maybe it would have been different with BP as the new coach though. But Hamilton wanted out. That’s fine. 

 

I never liked Hamilton, so this is me seeing his side. He’s gifted offensively but I’d like him to step in front of a few guys while playing D.

 

That’s how I see Monahan as well. He’s tough in other ways, like you just said, but I’d love him to let guys know that he is there. Maybe he doesn’t get broken by other teams sticks if he was a little meaner.

If Hamilton wanted more PP time, then he should have played more like Brouwer.

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

you don’t get it. It’s like his services to the organizations weren’t being recognized. The team is losing because the Blockchaining coach was a tool! You could help the team win but the coach doesn’t put you in. He’s confident in his abilities enough to know that he’d help the team win but isn’t used. I get it. He’s healthy. He’s young. And Blockchain, he wants to help get the team a win.

 

So he soured on the coach and the organization. It’s proven this club has not handled their young players very well. We are lucky Bennett hasn’t asked for a deal. Or others.

 

You may be reading too much into this.

They have the long term interests of the club and player in mind.  They meaning BT.

He wants to play regardless of whether a playoff spot was out of reach.  I get that.

Admirable.

 

I doubt he has soured at all.  He just wants to play.  The coach is gone, so no issue.  He's getting the surgey he needed.

We can call him a true number 1, or a number 2, but it really doesn't matter does it.  He's the best guy we have and the best chance we have of winning is when his line is on the ice.  Boring or not.  "Soft" or not.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

If Hamilton wanted more PP time, then he should have played more like Brouwer.

 

No kidding.  Just play like crap and the coach will give you top line minutes to "get you going".

[rickross]

On June 25, 2018 at 6:36 PM, Squilliam89 said:

Duclair???

He's an option to consider and likely won't cost much to sign, adds depth and more options for the coaches. However I'm leery of taking on too many of these reclamation projects right now. I don't mind Duclair it's just the Flames have struggled with consistency for years and don't think BT has time left to be rolling dice on more bubble players

[Thebrewcrew]

 

Best highlight video of Lindholm I can find. Admittedly, haven't watched much of him, but like what I see in this video. Given his versatility, reminds me a bit of Joe Pavelski. Much like Pavelski, Lindholm is also really good in front of the net with providing a screen and tipping pucks, which is something we have lacked in recent years

[ABC923]

Just a quick comparison on the trade so far.

 

Lindholm: 37 GP, 17G, 22A, 39P, +19, 57.3% Corsi, 20:35 TOI, Most used forward on PK, 3rd on PP, Excellent FO

Ferland: 28 GP, 11G, 5A, 16P, +3, 54.8% Corsi, 15:07 TOI, Doesn't kill penalties, 6th on PP, Poor on FO

 

Hanifin: 37GP, 3G, 13A, 16P, +4, 54.3% Corsi, 20:55, 2nd most used D on PP (8th overall), 2nd pairing on PK, 

Hamilton: 35 GP, 3G, 7A, 10P, -13, 61.1% Corsi, 20:13 TOI, 2nd most used D on PP (10th overall), Minimal PK use

 

Adam Fox: 11GP, 5G, 15A

 

So far, we have the better forward by a large margin (on a decent length and money contract) and the slightly better defender (on a longer and cheaper contract).  The wildcard remains Fox, who is on pace to completely wipe out his previous best seasons records and looks to be a really solid future.  In the now though, great trade so far.

[travel_dude]

Fox is now starting to talk about signing this spring.  

Makes you think he was meh about signing in CGY, especially with the depth we have on the blue line.

I don;t mind the trade, even considering him, just miffed that we traded away depth.

 

Fox was the reason why we landed Lindy, so I'm fine with the deal.

Hanifin makes fewer defensiev mistakes.

Ferland was a risky player to keep, with the concussions and potential big money re-signing.

He's going to cost close to Lindholm as it is, and has more question marks than answers.

Love the player, just not at that price.

[Cowtownguy]

4 hours ago, ABC923 said:

Just a quick comparison on the trade so far.

 

Lindholm: 37 GP, 17G, 22A, 39P, +19, 57.3% Corsi, 20:35 TOI, Most used forward on PK, 3rd on PP, Excellent FO

Ferland: 28 GP, 11G, 5A, 16P, +3, 54.8% Corsi, 15:07 TOI, Doesn't kill penalties, 6th on PP, Poor on FO

 

Hanifin: 37GP, 3G, 13A, 16P, +4, 54.3% Corsi, 20:55, 2nd most used D on PP (8th overall), 2nd pairing on PK, 

Hamilton: 35 GP, 3G, 7A, 10P, -13, 61.1% Corsi, 20:13 TOI, 2nd most used D on PP (10th overall), Minimal PK use

 

Adam Fox: 11GP, 5G, 15A

 

So far, we have the better forward by a large margin (on a decent length and money contract) and the slightly better defender (on a longer and cheaper contract).  The wildcard remains Fox, who is on pace to completely wipe out his previous best seasons records and looks to be a really solid future.  In the now though, great trade so far.

My bet is that Hanifin improves significantly over the next 5 years. He has the makings of a great defenceman.

[rickross]

It’s going to be hard watching Fox play if he does turn out to be a stud in the NHL. Too early to call a definitive comparison as Fox is still the pending piece.

 

Ive like Hanifin so far, he’s sound.  He’s not going to win u games on his own , and Fox has shown more offensive upside at this point....but we can’t forget he’s a defenceman!...I’d rather have a true defender over a forward posing as a d man in the NHL

[Thebrewcrew]

Adam Fox isn’t gonna sign in Carolina, one of the deepest organizations in the league defensively.

 

Right side;

Pesce

Faulk

Hamilton 

TVR

 

Even if he is able to play on the left side 

Slavin

De Haan

Fleury

Bean

 

Anyway I would have rather packaged him

in a deal like the one we did where we got

immediate long term help than trying to sign him, fail in doing so and then only being able to salvage a mid round pick for him like Nashville was with Vesey.

 

At the end of the day he is going to sign with NYR and we will not have to worry about him becoming a star that we traded away too soon. I honestly believe he never wanted to play here 

[cross16]

Fox will be an interesting story to follow to see who bent the truth more, the Fox camp or the Flames/Treliving. If he signs this summer in Carolina is won't look very good on the Flames and Treliving.

 

That being said if Lindholm keeps up this pace and truly is a 70ish point player it probably doesn't matter, the trade will be worth it even if Fox plays in the league at the level I think he can. Lindholm has what has really swung the trade for me. 

[JTech780]

29 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Fox will be an interesting story to follow to see who bent the truth more, the Fox camp or the Flames/Treliving. If he signs this summer in Carolina is won't look very good on the Flames and Treliving.

 

That being said if Lindholm keeps up this pace and truly is a 70ish point player it probably doesn't matter, the trade will be worth it even if Fox plays in the league at the level I think he can. Lindholm has what has really swung the trade for me. 

 

Yeah Lindholm has been way better than I thought he was going to be, I mean if you can get a guy who can play and produce on you top line, play on the 1st PP unit and be a top penalty killer and be one of the top players in the league in the faceoff dot, you are ahead of the game as far the trade goes. To borrow one of Treliving's catch phrases, Lindholm touches every aspect of the game.

 

I have never been a huge Fox fan and I doubt his offense can transfer to the NHL at the same rate. I am sure he will play, but will he have enough of an overall game to be a top 4 defenseman, that I am not sure about. He also isn't a great skater for a smaller defenseman.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Fox will be an interesting story to follow to see who bent the truth more, the Fox camp or the Flames/Treliving. If he signs this summer in Carolina is won't look very good on the Flames and Treliving.

 

That being said if Lindholm keeps up this pace and truly is a 70ish point player it probably doesn't matter, the trade will be worth it even if Fox plays in the league at the level I think he can. Lindholm has what has really swung the trade for me. 

 

I doubt him signing there reflcts on the Flames as much as the player.  Unless you are saying that he didn;t want to sign here and that's why they look bad.

Either way, he's a prospect that looks good not in the NHL.  I was not impressed so much with his WJC tourney, but regardless, he is going to have to prove he is NHL calibre.

Kinda like Erixon.  Just kidding.

 

My only complaint is that we traded away two D prospects, Hickey and Fox.  I don;t mind what we got in the Fox deal.  We still have decent depth on D, but that's about it.  

[cross16]

23 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I doubt him signing there reflcts on the Flames as much as the player.  Unless you are saying that he didn;t want to sign here and that's why they look bad.

 

 

No I believe the Flames wanted him, but they also told us there was going to be a signing issue which I think may not exactly be the black and white truth. to come out and point the finger at the player after the trade to only have him sign the next summer I don't think will be a good look on the Flames. 

 

Like I said though, only an interesting story to watch and doesn't necessary change the outlook/perception of the trade provided Lindholm is in fact this good. 

[Thebrewcrew]

For anyone still unsure of the trade the Sportsnet talking heads are saying Ferland contract talks haven’t really went anywhere and they won’t let him leave for nothing...

 

They also stated the obvious that they would move Dougie if they were offered a haul which yeah who wouldn’t 

[The_People1]

On 12/27/2018 at 9:27 AM, cross16 said:

Fox will be an interesting story to follow to see who bent the truth more, the Fox camp or the Flames/Treliving. If he signs this summer in Carolina is won't look very good on the Flames and Treliving.

 

That being said if Lindholm keeps up this pace and truly is a 70ish point player it probably doesn't matter, the trade will be worth it even if Fox plays in the league at the level I think he can. Lindholm has what has really swung the trade for me. 

 

Fox looks like a good player but there's no way Fox's upside is even close to Hanifin's upside.  Hanifin is better than Dougie Hamilton at the same age... but i do get the RHS thing and Dougie will be more valuable because of it.  I agree, it will be interesting to see if Fox will be willing to sign in Carolina considering they are stacked on RHS RD.  Hamilton, Faulk, Pesce, and Van Reimsdyk.  Fox will get stuck on the depth chart.  If he had a choice to play one more year of College and then get to hand pick where to go, then that's probably his best bet.

 

I do think Lindholm is a 70-point guy.  Lindholm doesn't look like a guy who can create something out of nothing on a consistent basis and lead a line of his own but he's an excellent complementary player.  He's something like a Rickard Rakell.  With the right linemates, he's smart enough to cash in his chances.

 

I really wish we could've nabbed a couple more players from Carolina because they're a team full of young kids waiting to enter their primes and just needs a change of scenery.

[Khrox]

I don't know how accurate it is, but apparently Dougie is on the trading block. And with Ferland reportedly refusing to sign an extension there, it really makes this trade look bad for Carolina.

[The_People1]

38 minutes ago, Khrox said:

I don't know how accurate it is, but apparently Dougie is on the trading block. And with Ferland reportedly refusing to sign an extension there, it really makes this trade look bad for Carolina.

 

I wish we made a 10 player trade with them.  We would've made off even better.