Cowtownguy Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 I am watching TSN right now and one of the guests said he believed that Calgary should offer sheet Draisaitl. You either get the player or mess with their cap. Further, he argued that the few times that this has happened, retaliation is rare. Lastly, he said that if they had the same rules in the NBA, this practice would be really common. So, I say that we should offer sheet him if only to reinvigorate the rivalry. It would be really fun to mess with the greasers and push Chia over the stress cliff he is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 17 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said: I am watching TSN right now and one of the guests said he believed that Calgary should offer sheet Draisaitl. You either get the player or mess with their cap. Further, he argued that the few times that this has happened, retaliation is rare. Lastly, he said that if they had the same rules in the NBA, this practice would be really common. So, I say that we should offer sheet him if only to reinvigorate the rivalry. It would be really fun to mess with the greasers and push Chia over the stress cliff he is on. LOL love the idea especially on Canada Day, start a war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkRaving Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 I don't think it's right for Calgary, but if I was George McPhee I'd be giving this serious thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 40 minutes ago, StarkRaving said: I don't think it's right for Calgary, but if I was George McPhee I'd be giving this serious thought. Or a team like ARI. Or BOS getting back at the Chia threat for Dougie.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 I'd be all for putting out an OS on Draisaitl but the odds are so stacked against the team making the offer. Under compensation 9.8 looks great as it's listed as 2 1sts, a 2nd & 3rd which is fine but then there is the twist that for compensation purposes they divide the total by 5 years rather than the life of the contract so 9.8 x 7 = 68.6 becomes 68.6 divided by 5 becomes 13.7 meaning 4 1st rounders. If you go 4 or 5 years you either bring him to UFA or the last year of RFA. If he turns out as hoped you are looking @ another even bigger payday . On the 1 hand there are complaints from players about the dearth of OS while on the other hand under the CBA the odds are stacked against the offering team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 other issue is we no longer have our 1st rounder next year , so we cant make the offer . But i still want to see somebody do it Chia claims he will match any offer .. I say you wait til McD signs his 13.25 and then somebody offer sheets at 13.5 if he does match , not only are they hooped for the next 7 years at leasts cap wise.. but they also have a member of the team making more than Connor.. he pretty much has to let Drai walk out of principle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Cowtownguy said: I am watching TSN right now and one of the guests said he believed that Calgary should offer sheet Draisaitl. You either get the player or mess with their cap. Further, he argued that the few times that this has happened, retaliation is rare. Lastly, he said that if they had the same rules in the NBA, this practice would be really common. So, I say that we should offer sheet him if only to reinvigorate the rivalry. It would be really fun to mess with the greasers and push Chia over the stress cliff he is on. We can't, as we do not have the 1st rounds or 2nd round picks anymore that would be compensation should it get accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said: We can't, as we do not have the 1st rounds or 2nd round picks anymore that would be compensation should it get accepted. We do technically, there is something in the rules that allows you to push back the picks so we could use 2019 1st etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 9 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said: I'd be all for putting out an OS on Draisaitl but the odds are so stacked against the team making the offer. Under compensation 9.8 looks great as it's listed as 2 1sts, a 2nd & 3rd which is fine but then there is the twist that for compensation purposes they divide the total by 5 years rather than the life of the contract so 9.8 x 7 = 68.6 becomes 68.6 divided by 5 becomes 13.7 meaning 4 1st rounders. If you go 4 or 5 years you either bring him to UFA or the last year of RFA. If he turns out as hoped you are looking @ another even bigger payday . On the 1 hand there are complaints from players about the dearth of OS while on the other hand under the CBA the odds are stacked against the offering team. I've never heard of this. Can't believe it's true. What if a team offers a 5 year deal? Does the total divide by 4 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 Oh, and before we offer sheet anyone, we should probably sign Bennett first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted July 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 Given Edmonton's history of signing players to ridiculous contracts, it sure would be nice to see a team offer sheet him. Maybe that kid in Arizona messes with them given I suspect he has plenty of cap space available and could use a big name on his roster. I think that Boston and Anaheim might have axes to grind with the greasers. I don't understand why Chia would mouth off about defending the team from an offer sheet in the first place (even if prompted by the media). It seems to me that it puts the idea out there among GMs in the first place. Second, it makes the player's agent more secure that they are desperate to sign the guy to an expensive contract. Don't you at least pretend that you are ready to negotiate with vigour? My understanding is that Draisaitl is less than happy about the way Edmonton has used him (before last year). Then he has the break out season. That spells bank to me. More teams are going to be angry with Edmonton after this contract is signed. Johnny Hockey/Tarasenko type players will want Toews/Kane dollars after this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Cowtownguy said: More teams are going to be angry with Edmonton after this contract is signed. Johnny Hockey/Tarasenko type players will want Toews/Kane dollars after this. The Oil (Lowe) didn't do the rest of the league (Burke included) any favors with the offer sheet for Penner by driving up the price for comparable players... With the way the offer sheet rules are structured, a team that might have an axe to grind and wanted to send a 'poison pill' could offer sheet Draisaitl say $9 or $10 mil (to pick a number) on a 1 year deal... The Oil match, and then they would have to put at least that much on the table the following season as a qualifying offer to retain him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 12 hours ago, The_People1 said: I've never heard of this. Can't believe it's true. What if a team offers a 5 year deal? Does the total divide by 4 years? It's true. Someone mentioned it to me & I waded through the CBA to confirm as it struck me as odd. The AAV is divided by the lesser of the term of the contract or 5 years. A 7 year contract @ $7 million carries a cap hit of $7 million but an AAV of 9.8 for compensation purposes. It stacks the deck against making a full term (7 year) OS. The $ people will have to be really creative with the length. Boston (hate Chia) or Montreal (need a center badly) could structure it so term leaves 1 year of RFA & put the poison pill of a high last year for QO purposes if sure Oilers will match but if they don't that QO applies to them. The CBA has oddities we don't know about (& make no sense to most fans) until circumstance gets you to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said: It's true. Someone mentioned it to me & I waded through the CBA to confirm as it struck me as odd. The AAV is divided by the lesser of the term of the contract or 5 years. A 7 year contract @ $7 million carries a cap hit of $7 million but an AAV of 9.8 for compensation purposes. It stacks the deck against making a full term (7 year) OS. The $ people will have to be really creative with the length. Boston (hate Chia) or Montreal (need a center badly) could structure it so term leaves 1 year of RFA & put the poison pill of a high last year for QO purposes if sure Oilers will match but if they don't that QO applies to them. The CBA has oddities we don't know about (& make no sense to most fans) until circumstance gets you to check. I must have read the exact piece you did. Getting creative with a deal less than 7 makes the most sense. 6+7+9+9+9+9 = 49 / 5 = 9.8m (7m cap hit) which account to 2 - firsts a 2nd and a 3rd EDM would match and be stuck with only buying one year of UFA. Only helps them if he doesn't measure up, and then they have given up potential lotto picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Carty said: The Oil (Lowe) didn't do the rest of the league (Burke included) any favors with the offer sheet for Penner by driving up the price for comparable players... With the way the offer sheet rules are structured, a team that might have an axe to grind and wanted to send a 'poison pill' could offer sheet Draisaitl say $9 or $10 mil (to pick a number) on a 1 year deal... The Oil match, and then they would have to put at least that much on the table the following season as a qualifying offer to retain him... Problem with that is Chia might well take the compensation (especially @ 4 1st rounders) & the signing team now faces an even higher QO. An AAV @ 9.8 x 5 costs 2 1sts, a 2nd & a 3rd. Top teams would have to scramble to create cap space (& probably to trade to get their own already spent picks back) so odds are it'll be a mid to bottom range team that can even carry it off. ! player isn't going to shoot them up that much in the standings so odds are the pick would be in the same range as last year. I just checked Capfriendly. Boston is well positioned to do it as they have the picks, cap space & were contending last year (3rd in division, 7th in conference). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 4 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said: Problem with that is Chia might well take the compensation (especially @ 4 1st rounders) & the signing team now faces an even higher QO. An AAV @ 9.8 x 5 costs 2 1sts, a 2nd & a 3rd. Top teams would have to scramble to create cap space (& probably to trade to get their own already spent picks back) so odds are it'll be a mid to bottom range team that can even carry it off. ! player isn't going to shoot them up that much in the standings so odds are the pick would be in the same range as last year. I just checked Capfriendly. Boston is well positioned to do it as they have the picks, cap space & were contending last year (3rd in division, 7th in conference). Boston crossed my mind as well... Vegas or even the Yotes could do it, and if Chiarelli declined to match, they would have a new marquis player... I could be wrong, but I could see how a couple of teams might rather have a bird in the hand with Draisaitl rather than take the gamble on the picks... Another option could be the team that acquired him could also then choose to dangle and then trade him for a good return at the trade deadline leaving the team that acquired him to cut a new deal... A couple of million extra for most of a seasons use of Draisaitl could then very well garner a strong enough return in assets to actually make it worthwhile... As we all know, a player of that caliber and age doesn't go on the trade block that often, and when they do it ain't cheap... I think that no matter where he plays, Draisaitl will have a strong season, with or without McDavid... If a team offers $9.131 Mil (two 1st's a 2nd & a 3rd threshold), I think Chiarelli will match, and the team will suffer elsewhere as he has to adjust any plans he may have had... He has backed himself into a corner, and the the Oil would be a much lesser team without one of their key players... The backlash he would face for losing Draisaitl would be hilarious after his soap box speeches, and likely be enough to then cause further doubt about his ability as a GM after some of his questionable moves with the Bruins... If Vegas or the Yotes wanted to offer even more money and term with the intent of keeping him, after watching the way the lottery went this year, there is a possibility that they could consider that giving up those 1st round picks might not seem quite as expensive as it used to be... Chiarelli actually had the balls to say this yesterday... “I don’t think it’s a concern,” he told the media in a press conference. “Offer sheets by themselves are quite inflationary. There’s the inflationary aspect of it which will impact everybody. There’s also the predatory impact.”... from: http://nationalpost.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/edmonton-oilers-gm-peter-chiarelli-makes-it-clear-on-mcdavid-and-draisaitl-were-going-to-sign-them/wcm/8a545c5e-0714-4839-aea4-101a8a165f52 Funny stuff coming from a representative of the team that set the wheels in motion with an offer sheet... I hope that a team does tender an offer sheet... Karma's a biatch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Carty said: Boston crossed my mind as well... Vegas or even the Yotes could do it, and if Chiarelli declined to match, they would have a new marquis player... I could be wrong, but I could see how a couple of teams might rather have a bird in the hand with Draisaitl rather than take the gamble on the picks... Another option could be the team that acquired him could also then choose to dangle and then trade him for a good return at the trade deadline leaving the team that acquired him to cut a new deal... A couple of million extra for most of a seasons use of Draisaitl could then very well garner a strong enough return in assets to actually make it worthwhile... As we all know, a player of that caliber and age doesn't go on the trade block that often, and when they do it ain't cheap... I think that no matter where he plays, Draisaitl will have a strong season, with or without McDavid... If a team offers $9.131 Mil, I think Chiarelli will match, and the team will suffer elsewhere as he has to adjust any plans he may have had... He has backed himself into a corner, and the the Oil would be a much lesser team without one of their key players... The backlash he would face for losing Draisaitl would be hilarious after his soap box speeches, and likely be enough to then cause further doubt about his ability as a GM after some of his questionable moves with the Bruins... If Vegas or the Yotes wanted to offer even more money and term with the intent of keeping him, after watching the way the lottery went this year, there is a possibility that they could consider that giving up those 1st round picks might not seem quite as expensive as it used to be... Chiarelli actually had the balls to say this yesterday... “I don’t think it’s a concern,” he told the media in a press conference. “Offer sheets by themselves are quite inflationary. There’s the inflationary aspect of it which will impact everybody. There’s also the predatory impact.”... from: http://nationalpost.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/edmonton-oilers-gm-peter-chiarelli-makes-it-clear-on-mcdavid-and-draisaitl-were-going-to-sign-them/wcm/8a545c5e-0714-4839-aea4-101a8a165f52 Funny stuff coming from a representative of the team that set the wheels in motion with an offer sheet... I hope that a team does tender an offer sheet... Karma's a biatch... Chia is 1) not liked by other GMs 2) seen as a mark (Seguin trade, structure of Lucic contract, trafed for Griffin Reinhardt. Even in his good move acquiring Larsson NJ said no to Eberle/RNH & demanding Hall. He was lucky that 1 appears tobe working out). Another team I thought of earlier was TML but signing Marleau @ 6.25 x 3 throws that out the window. Dang! That's a 35+ contract so they keep the cap hit even if he retires. The structure is another signing bonus laden 1 (like Lucic, Ladd) with 7, 4.6 & 3 payable every July 1 with a base of 1.5, 1.5 & 1.25. Along with the Price contract where 70 of 103 being signing bonuses it sure feels like those who can are proofing their contracts against a stoppage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 11 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said: It's true. Someone mentioned it to me & I waded through the CBA to confirm as it struck me as odd. The AAV is divided by the lesser of the term of the contract or 5 years. A 7 year contract @ $7 million carries a cap hit of $7 million but an AAV of 9.8 for compensation purposes. It stacks the deck against making a full term (7 year) OS. The $ people will have to be really creative with the length. Boston (hate Chia) or Montreal (need a center badly) could structure it so term leaves 1 year of RFA & put the poison pill of a high last year for QO purposes if sure Oilers will match but if they don't that QO applies to them. The CBA has oddities we don't know about (& make no sense to most fans) until circumstance gets you to check. Thanks for clarifying. Makes sense to get control of offer sheet lengths. I guess a 5-year indecent proposal is the sweet spot. Definitely push the offer to the upper most limit of the second tier compensation (2 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd). Basically $9.8-mil aav. This makes the cap hit hard to swallow and the compensation not worth taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JA_Boomer Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 What people often seem to forget is a team can't just offer-sheet a RFA. You are signing an off-sheet contract with that player. So even if you WANT to offer-sheet them, it has to be a mutual agreement between the team and player (99% of the time via agent). Players and agents know their current team is likely to simply match the offer, so why crap in the bowl you eat from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 23 minutes ago, JA_Boomer said: What people often seem to forget is a team can't just offer-sheet a RFA. You are signing an off-sheet contract with that player. So even if you WANT to offer-sheet them, it has to be a mutual agreement between the team and player (99% of the time via agent). Players and agents know their current team is likely to simply match the offer, so why crap in the bowl you eat from? There are many ways to get a team to pay more. An offer sheet is just one. If the Oilers are not offering enough then an offer sheet might be an alternative. Holding out, arbitration(if they have rights) are a couple of other means of prying dollars from a club. Sometimes fear of an offer sheet is enough to get traded. Hamilton to us, Saad to Columbus are examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 3 hours ago, JA_Boomer said: What people often seem to forget is a team can't just offer-sheet a RFA. You are signing an off-sheet contract with that player. So even if you WANT to offer-sheet them, it has to be a mutual agreement between the team and player (99% of the time via agent). Players and agents know their current team is likely to simply match the offer, so why crap in the bowl you eat from? I know what you are saying. If Draisaitl wants to stay as an Oiler, then why would he sour relationships with Chia by signing an offer sheet. Better to approach professionally and ask for $9-mil-per. But say, Chia is being cheap and wouldn't budge on $6-mil-per and there is a $9-mil-per offer sheet sitting right there, then it's hard to say no to $3-mil-per over term. Just another way to negotiate. Johnny for example, never went that route. Probably because he wanted to stay here. Draisaitl may do the same with Edmonton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 15 minutes ago, The_People1 said: I know what you are saying. If Draisaitl wants to stay as an Oiler, then why would he sour relationships with Chia by signing an offer sheet. Better to approach professionally and ask for $9-mil-per. But say, Chia is being cheap and wouldn't budge on $6-mil-per and there is a $9-mil-per offer sheet sitting right there, then it's hard to say no to $3-mil-per over term. Just another way to negotiate. Johnny for example, never went that route. Probably because he wanted to stay here. Draisaitl may do the same with Edmonton. Johnny was exempt, due to a weird rule. May have been the fact he only played in a game n year 1. Not sure, but it was confirmed he couldn't be OS'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Johnny was exempt, due to a weird rule. May have been the fact he only played in a game n year 1. Not sure, but it was confirmed he couldn't be OS'd. Oh right. I remember that too now. I gave him too much credit then lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 1 hour ago, The_People1 said: Oh right. I remember that too now. I gave him too much credit then lol. The agents are the real villians here. JH told his family the process was frustrating because he just wanted to play. You have to trust your agent, though. Getting involved personally can make things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 5 hours ago, JA_Boomer said: What people often seem to forget is a team can't just offer-sheet a RFA. You are signing an off-sheet contract with that player. So even if you WANT to offer-sheet them, it has to be a mutual agreement between the team and player (99% of the time via agent). Players and agents know their current team is likely to simply match the offer, so why crap in the bowl you eat from? Didn't forget at all... Even having an offer sheet on the table and unsigned is leverage for Draisaitl and his agent... They go to Chiarelli and say that they have received an offer for say 9.1 mil for a year but haven't signed off on it... Chia says well that is only a one year deal, and he still wants to work out a multi year deal with Draisaitl... It still drives the price up for the Oilers (Chia still matches in that range) and the poison pill still has the intended affect... Draisaitl saves face and doesn't crap in his food dish... Don't forget that Draisaitl and his agent are already not happy with how they feel that Chia peed in the water bowl due to how they feel Draisaitl was handle prior to his breakout... and that is why they haven't drank the water and signed... They want the money to buy a nice new dish... If a team is serious about wanting to sign and keep Draisaitl, I think it would take more $ and term for Chia not to match... But I think there is a threshold where it could happen, and also a couple of teams that might consider it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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