So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[cross16]

25 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think Poille to his credit realized as a team NAS had become stagnant which saw some significant player exchanges.

BT has some realizations to address beginning with his own mistake of signing Brouwer and now having to rid us of him. Another coaching decision and trading our highest ever pick in Bennett for something much better. These are the main areas of concern IMO to have a better team next season.

 

My point though was look at Nashville last year. Even their own GM didn't think they were going to make the playoffs because they weren't putting it togeher but they found a way and went on a run. Not saying that will happen with the Flames but it could. 

 

There are a lot of parallels because like the Flames team this year Nashville just wasn't putting it together but the talent was there. Some bad luck, tough losses, tough breaks, and inconsistency was keeping them out until they figured it out, which is what the Flames are going through this year too. 

[Flyerfan52]

12 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think Poille to his credit realized as a team NAS had become stagnant which saw some significant player exchanges.

BT has some realizations to address beginning with his own mistake of signing Brouwer and now having to rid us of him. Another coaching decision and trading our highest ever pick in Bennett for something much better. These are the main areas of concern IMO to have a better team next season.

Poile fired the only coach Nashville had ever had (Trotz landed on his feet with the Caps) to change the complexion of the team. Then he made daring moves like Jones for Johanson & Weber (lifelong Pred) for PK Subban signalling a complete turn around in their approach.

He kept the traditional strong top 4 D & top goalie but wagered other assets to provide the scoring they lacked. All gutsy moves.

 

By contrast BT has beefed up the D & goal positions but his signings of forwards were rather knee jerk.

He did a good job retaining Backlund but like the fan base seems too in love with 3 young players. If he dared risk POing the fans trading the 3 would result in a lateral trade with new blood to replace what hasn't moved us to the top @ worst but just as likely result in a new attitude. Hard to imagine 20ish year old players becoming complacent but we withnessed that up north & I see similar where just having good #s is good enough. Few have that killer instinct needed to win consistantly.

 

If there aren't going to be big trades using the 1s I'm thinking of (I'm sure most of you don't need me to name them) a coaching change doubles in importance. No country club atmosphere will work so a task master is required & there happen to be a few available or likely to be. Even late Feb. is not too late as we've all seen a change late in the season wake up a dormant team.

[cccsberg]

43 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think Poille to his credit realized as a team NAS had become stagnant which saw some significant player exchanges.

BT has some realizations to address beginning with his own mistake of signing Brouwer and now having to rid us of him. Another coaching decision and trading our highest ever pick in Bennett for something much better. These are the main areas of concern IMO to have a better team next season.

I think the biggest thing I take out of the Nashville example is that nobody is off-limits and you have to keenly focus on your most pressing needs and be bold in addressing them to make the team better.  Trading Webber and Jones was trading away their two best D, and Captain and taking on with PK a "problematic" guy that was controversial in the dressing room.  Giordano and Brodie fit the same bill as far as our D go, but even thoughI think they have been/are great, we can get even better with a couple inspired trades.  Evander Kane certainly HAS been an issue on and off the ice but I've read several places where he's calmed down considerably and I think it may be worth taking a chance.  On the ice he's a clear upgrade over what Bennett is offering and although I agree Bennett may yet turn it around he's had three years to date and pretty much all we hear is excuses.  We need to put the team first and foremost.  With Ottawa insisting on cheap at all costs an opportunity for some great players is seemingly there that in most crcumstances is not available.  It is not the time to be shy about trades.  Look to the long-term and put the team first and foremost....

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

By contrast BT has beefed up the D & goal positions but his signings of forwards were rather knee jerk.

He did a good job retaining Backlund but like the fan base seems too in love with 3 young players. If he dared risk POing the fans trading the 3 would result in a lateral trade with new blood to replace what hasn't moved us to the top @ worst but just as likely result in a new attitude. Hard to imagine 20ish year old players becoming complacent but we withnessed that up north & I see similar where just having good #s is good enough. Few have that killer instinct needed to win consistantly.

 

The scoring rate of the top 2 players is the only thing keeping us in games this year.  

I don't see them becoming complacent, though Monahan does look bored at time.  Goes with his name.

Maybe they aren't fierce enough for playoffs, but they are not like the Hall and Eberle attitudes in EDM.

Trading Tkachuk would be a mistake.  I don't think you mean him.

Bennett isn't turning out as expected, coaching or player.

 

I see a couple of things that haven't moved the lever.

Wasting time on a goalie pair that couldn't be consistent last year.  We've added two that are much better.

Playing out the contracts of players that aren't helping.  No willingness to sit anyone that is a vet.

Making a decision to be a possession team and concentrate on defense, without telling the rovers that.

Using the same style of PP even when it hasn't worked for 50 games.

 

Can't get anything (or so it seems) for the bottom 6 players that are spinning their wheels.  If they were doing everything but scoring, I would say fine.  But they aren't.  

 

If you want to start somewhere, lose the players that are not contributing.  Nothing below the 2nd line is doing much.  Maybe Janko is a good piece to hang onto, since he has some of the skills you need.  Do we really need Stone and Brodie?  

 

Lastly, the coaching is a big question mark.  I don't know if NASH would have much more success with this group.  If we did the above, would we really want to keep the same group that have done little to improve the overall game?

[cccsberg]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The scoring rate of the top 2 players is the only thing keeping us in games this year.  

I don't see them becoming complacent, though Monahan does look bored at time.  Goes with his name.

Maybe they aren't fierce enough for playoffs, but they are not like the Hall and Eberle attitudes in EDM.

Trading Tkachuk would be a mistake.  I don't think you mean him.

Bennett isn't turning out as expected, coaching or player.

 

I see a couple of things that haven't moved the lever.

Wasting time on a goalie pair that couldn't be consistent last year.  We've added two that are much better.

Playing out the contracts of players that aren't helping.  No willingness to sit anyone that is a vet.

Making a decision to be a possession team and concentrate on defense, without telling the rovers that.

Using the same style of PP even when it hasn't worked for 50 games.

 

Can't get anything (or so it seems) for the bottom 6 players that are spinning their wheels.  If they were doing everything but scoring, I would say fine.  But they aren't.  

 

If you want to start somewhere, lose the players that are not contributing.  Nothing below the 2nd line is doing much.  Maybe Janko is a good piece to hang onto, since he has some of the skills you need.  Do we really need Stone and Brodie?  

 

Lastly, the coaching is a big question mark.  I don't know if NASH would have much more success with this group.  If we did the above, would we really want to keep the same group that have done little to improve the overall game?

Generally agree with the comment.  I guess the issue (I brought up) with Gio and TJ is whether we can leverage them both for better while at the same time taking advantage of our strength which is upcoming D depth.  It might hurt in the immediate but end up way ahead 1-2 years down the road.  

 

The suggestions are also an attempt to get out ahead of the curve in evaluating the team before tempting trade pieces get gobbled up elsewhere.  Look, BT and Flames' management seemed to think the Flames were definite playoff contenders, and more than that that our window for the Stanley Cup is this and the next couple of years.  Believing so they went for broke solidifying the D and G positions while trading away major draft pieces.  Not making the playoffs, or even just getting in as a bubble team has got to be a major slap in the face for them.  The inevitable post-season review is going to be (better be...) bloody and perhaps we can get a start on it by making a couple bold moves now?

 

Of course, complacency (wishful thinking) says we are right in the thick of things and if we sneak in we can go on a run, but frankly, I prefer to blow the door down and leave nothing to luck but that's just me.  Hopefully management has a killer instinct because we could be looking at another decade of mediocrity if they don't get this right.  

[MAC331]

7 hours ago, cccsberg said:

I think the biggest thing I take out of the Nashville example is that nobody is off-limits and you have to keenly focus on your most pressing needs and be bold in addressing them to make the team better.  Trading Webber and Jones was trading away their two best D, and Captain and taking on with PK a "problematic" guy that was controversial in the dressing room.  Giordano and Brodie fit the same bill as far as our D go, but even thoughI think they have been/are great, we can get even better with a couple inspired trades.  Evander Kane certainly HAS been an issue on and off the ice but I've read several places where he's calmed down considerably and I think it may be worth taking a chance.  On the ice he's a clear upgrade over what Bennett is offering and although I agree Bennett may yet turn it around he's had three years to date and pretty much all we hear is excuses.  We need to put the team first and foremost.  With Ottawa insisting on cheap at all costs an opportunity for some great players is seemingly there that in most crcumstances is not available.  It is not the time to be shy about trades.  Look to the long-term and put the team first and foremost....

I hear what you are saying but I don't think we have the NAS situation. Like FF said they got rid of Trotz a successful coach to a degree but the entire team had become stagnant with a compliment of good players. The NHL is the end of the line of if one group of players can't take you any further then yes, big changes need to happen.

Calgary is still finishing up a rebuild and maturing into the experience level required to be consistent winners. I am not saying you don't trade a Giordano however I would not do it now. We have weaknesses and he isn't one of them. Brodie is a weakness, Bennett is a weakness, Brouwer is a weakness while some other positions could use upgrading to make us better.

[Heartbreaker]

2 hours ago, cccsberg said:

I think the biggest thing I take out of the Nashville example is that nobody is off-limits and you have to keenly focus on your most pressing needs and be bold in addressing them to make the team better.  Trading Webber and Jones was trading away their two best D, and Captain and taking on with PK a "problematic" guy that was controversial in the dressing room.  Giordano and Brodie fit the same bill as far as our D go, but even thoughI think they have been/are great, we can get even better with a couple inspired trades.  Evander Kane certainly HAS been an issue on and off the ice but I've read several places where he's calmed down considerably and I think it may be worth taking a chance.  On the ice he's a clear upgrade over what Bennett is offering and although I agree Bennett may yet turn it around he's had three years to date and pretty much all we hear is excuses.  We need to put the team first and foremost.

 

Interesting post... I agree with you on Nashville, and the trades that they've made. But I'm not sure that you've considered all of the variables.  

 

When Shea Weber was traded for PK Subban, the Predators had paid $56 million of a $114 million dollar contract, and it still had an additional ten years on it. The dollars make sense - PK Subban's contract still had $58 million owed, but it was over six years. PK is also six years younger. In terms of a hockey trade, it made a lot of sense - but I think that the extra four years on a body that's six years older has the potential to really hurt the Montreal Canadiens. In fact, if I'm GM of the Nashville Predators, I make that trade seven days a week - and I am a huge Shea Weber fan. I was an advocate of trading Mark Giordano a few years ago, and I would be open to doing that now, but to make this comparison, you'd have to be looking at a top two defender that's six years younger, and on a friendlier contract. 

 

So, to flip that around, would you really want to flip Sam Bennett for Evander Kane? He's six years older, a pending UFA, and could come with a lot of problems - what do you suppose he'll command in free agency? If we are moving Bennett, and in my opinion, it's WAY too early for that, I think it'd have to be for a similar asset - that is, someone young with a great deal of potential. A few examples that I might consider if I were the GM include Domi, Nylander, and Reinhart. That's not to say that those options are realistic, only that that's the type of deal I'd be looking for. I don't think that we're in a position to be moving assets for rentals, and while I agree that he's at a great age to work and grow with our team, I definitely don't think that bringing in a potential problem and signing him to the highest contract on our team is the right idea. 

 

Love. 

 

[cccsberg]

4 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I hear what you are saying but I don't think we have the NAS situation. Like FF said they got rid of Trotz a successful coach to a degree but the entire team had become stagnant with a compliment of good players. The NHL is the end of the line of if one group of players can't take you any further then yes, big changes need to happen.

Calgary is still finishing up a rebuild and maturing into the experience level required to be consistent winners. I am not saying you don't trade a Giordano howeer I would not do it now. We have weaknesses and he isn't one of them. Brodie is a weakness, Bennett is a weakness, Brouwer is a weakness while some other positions could use upgrading to make us better.

I agree except that there may be an opportunity for a Karlsson here, and if it took trading Gio early as the key piece to make it happen I’d be for it.  Think of Webber for PK Subban.  In any case, unless we keep Gio till retirement, which might be a good idea, I agree, we need to be thinking trade in the next 2-3 years anyways.  

[cccsberg]

15 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Interesting post... I agree with you on Nashville, and the trades that they've made. But I'm not sure that you've considered all of the variables.  

 

When Shea Weber was traded for PK Subban, the Predators had paid $56 million of a $114 million dollar contract, and it still had an additional ten years on it. The dollars make sense - PK Subban's contract still had $58 million owed, but it was over six years. PK is also six years younger. In terms of a hockey trade, it made a lot of sense - but I think that the extra four years on a body that's six years older has the potential to really hurt the Montreal Canadiens. In fact, if I'm GM of the Nashville Predators, I make that trade seven days a week - and I am a huge Shea Weber fan. I was an advocate of trading Mark Giordano a few years ago, and I would be open to doing that now, but to make this comparison, you'd have to be looking at a top two defender that's six years younger, and on a friendlier contract. 

 

So, to flip that around, would you really want to flip Sam Bennett for Evander Kane? He's six years older, a pending UFA, and could come with a lot of problems - what do you suppose he'll command in free agency? If we are moving Bennett, and in my opinion, it's WAY too early for that, I think it'd have to be for a similar asset - that is, someone young with a great deal of potential. A few examples that I might consider if I were the GM include Domi, Nylander, and Reinhart. That's not to say that those options are realistic, only that that's the type of deal I'd be looking for. I don't think that we're in a position to be moving assets for rentals, and while I agree that he's at a great age to work and grow with our team, I definitely don't think that bringing in a potential problem and signing him to the highest contract on our team is the right idea. 

 

Love. 

 

Many good points.  In all of my scenarios I’m assuming we can re-sign the incoming guys, which of course is not a given.  The second thing is that there are no identical scenarios, just similar opportunities.  Although the Webber-Subban trade makes great sense for the Preds and seems crazy for the Habs, apparently there were in-room issues which provided an incentive for the Habs, along with their Cup window which is supposed to be now with Price.  And let’s not forget, the Habs are one of if not the most valuable sports franchise out there so the dollars aren’t really an issue.  With Karlsson I’d say trading him is craziness, but Ottawa seems determined to be a low budget team and EK seems determined to maximize his next contract.  If he’s determined he might not be the guy to get, but at this point we don’t really know.  

 

As as far as Kane-Bennett, let’s just say Kane is at his peak years and producing way more that Bennett may never reach.  We hope, but you never know.  As for attitudes, yeah, someone has to do a deep dive and find out what’s happening now....

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, cccsberg said:

Many good points.  In all of my scenarios I’m assuming we can re-sign the incoming guys, which of course is not a given.  The second thing is that there are no identical scenarios, just similar opportunities.  Although the Webber-Subban trade makes great sense for the Preds and seems crazy for the Habs, apparently there were in-room issues which provided an incentive for the Habs, along with their Cup window which is supposed to be know with Price.  And let’s not forget, the Habs are one of if not the most valuable sports franchise out there so the dollars aren’t really an issue.  With Karlsson I’d say trading him is craziness, but Ottawa seems determined to be a low budget team and EK seems determined to maximize his next contract.  If he’s determined he might not be the guy to get, but at this point we don’t really know.  

 

As as far as Kane-Bennett, let’s just say Kane is at his peak years and producing way more that Bennett may never reach.  We hope, but you never know.  As for attitudes, yeah, someone has to do a deep dive and find out what’s happening now....

I know we all get got up in names when talking trades however I wonder if something like Kylington LSD and Mangiapane LW would get us one of Reinhart or Nylander from BUF. Our surplus prospect wise is LSD and LW, if we were to get a good RW option and move Tkachuk to RW top line we would be in good shape.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk

Bennett, Backlund, (Reinhart or Nylander)

Ferland, Jankowski, Frolik

Klimchuk, Dube, Lazar

[travel_dude]

9 hours ago, cccsberg said:

Generally agree with the comment.  I guess the issue (I brought up) with Gio and TJ is whether we can leverage them both for better while at the same time taking advantage of our strength which is upcoming D depth.  It might hurt in the immediate but end up way ahead 1-2 years down the road.  

 

 

Gio is having a good season defensively, but I think he's starting to lose some of his offence.

He's got one good move, and uses it almost every shot he takes.  It's the only one that seems to hit the net.

Hate to say it, but the time to move Gio is in the net 1-2 years.  Even then may be too late to get any real value.

The problem is you would need to replace the leadership as well.

Monahan isn;t really a leader.  Brouwer needs to be gone.  Backlund doesn't really command your attention.

 

[MAC331]

19 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

My point though was look at Nashville last year. Even their own GM didn't think they were going to make the playoffs because they weren't putting it togeher but they found a way and went on a run. Not saying that will happen with the Flames but it could. 

 

There are a lot of parallels because like the Flames team this year Nashville just wasn't putting it together but the talent was there. Some bad luck, tough losses, tough breaks, and inconsistency was keeping them out until they figured it out, which is what the Flames are going through this year too. 

Except the figuring out part. Our team has to figure out the "the play to win" vs "the play not to lose" part of the winning equation. This comes with believing in your team mates.

I just don't know that we are there yet.

[MAC331]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Gio is having a good season defensively, but I think he's starting to lose some of his offence.

He's got one good move, and uses it almost every shot he takes.  It's the only one that seems to hit the net.

Hate to say it, but the time to move Gio is in the net 1-2 years.  Even then may be too late to get any real value.

The problem is you would need to replace the leadership as well.

Monahan isn;t really a leader.  Brouwer needs to be gone.  Backlund doesn't really command your attention.

 

I agree that the best time to move Giordano IMO would be after next season and having Valimaki with more experience.

I don't understand why you wouldn't think Monahan could be a good C, I would say he is the player we want as a leader and C.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

I agree that the best time to move Giordano IMO would be after next season and having Valimaki with more experience.

I don't understand why you wouldn't think Monahan could be a good C, I would say he is the player we want as a leader and C.

 

I can't guess what he's like in the room, but on the ice he is only leading by example.  If that example looks sluggish or not engaged, then he isn't helping.

[MAC331]

46 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I can't guess what he's like in the room, but on the ice he is only leading by example.  If that example looks sluggish or not engaged, then he isn't helping.

I would rather he be talking with officials vs someone like Tkachuk if that is who you are thinking should be C.

[420since1974]

I'm not sure if there is a simple solution to this one.

I think that the talent is here, but the team has just not "gelled" yet.

If they were to play harder for each other, I feel that the results would be much better.

Maybe not SC quality, but certainly contender status.

I realise that no player can go full out for an entire season, but when a team comes together like Nashville did late last season, anything is possible.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I would rather he be talking with officials vs someone like Tkachuk if that is who you are thinking should be C.

 

If that's all he's going to do, he already has a letter.

 

[conundrumed]

59 minutes ago, 420since1974 said:

I'm not sure if there is a simple solution to this one.

I think that the talent is here, but the team has just not "gelled" yet.

If they were to play harder for each other, I feel that the results would be much better.

Maybe not SC quality, but certainly contender status.

I realise that no player can go full out for an entire season, but when a team comes together like Nashville did late last season, anything is possible.

If Bennett can be the Trochek type I think he is (only better), it will do us a world of good.

Good skater, good wrister, good compete level.

I really think he needs to simplify his game and try not to do too much. I've lost count how many wristers he misses by an inch or 2. Those misses go the other way in a hurry.

He needs some patience because you can't take O zone penalties.

When I start bunching some of these things together, I can't help but think he's taking on too much by himself, maybe through the mishmash of linemates he's simply become that way. Don't know.

 

BT has spent a lot of time, energy, money and futures in G & D, the F ranks have borne the brunt in desperation moves to make it look like he's trying...

He really has to address F, here and on the farm. I'm happy a lot of Stockton guys got NHL bonus time this year, but for all, what, 4, 5?

That can also be perceived as a bit of desperation.

I'm not down about it, just trying to understand it.

[ABC923]

Time to rebuild the rebuild?  Or would simply changing coaches be enough?  BT may have to go as well, the Hamonic trade looks bad and could get worse if we win the lottery (which is likely since our luck sucks).

 

So who do we keep in a rebuild?  We just committed to Backlund, and Gio's contract may be tough to move for good value.  Should we try to get draft picks back?  

My Keeper List: Tkachuk, Hamilton

Keep Most of These (trading one from this list would shake things up and bring back good assets): Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund, Giordano

Trade Most of These (Players we don't want/can't rebuild around but would bring back good assets): Brodie, Hamonic, Smith, Frolik, Bennett, Jankowski, Ferland, Stone

Dump These for whatever you can get: Brouwer, Versteeg

Gone Anyway: Stajan, Bartkowski

Whatever (Low end players that are fairly interchangeable, but wouldn't bring anything worthwhile back in trade, or players with uncertain abilities): Hathaway, Lazar, Lomberg, Kulak, Rittich

[travel_dude]

40 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

Time to rebuild the rebuild?  Or would simply changing coaches be enough?  BT may have to go as well, the Hamonic trade looks bad and could get worse if we win the lottery (which is likely since our luck sucks).

 

So who do we keep in a rebuild?  We just committed to Backlund, and Gio's contract may be tough to move for good value.  Should we try to get draft picks back?  

My Keeper List: Tkachuk, Hamilton

Keep Most of These (trading one from this list would shake things up and bring back good assets): Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund, Giordano

Trade Most of These (Players we don't want/can't rebuild around but would bring back good assets): Brodie, Hamonic, Smith, Frolik, Bennett, Jankowski, Ferland, Stone

Dump These for whatever you can get: Brouwer, Versteeg

Gone Anyway: Stajan, Bartkowski

Whatever (Low end players that are fairly interchangeable, but wouldn't bring anything worthwhile back in trade, or players with uncertain abilities): Hathaway, Lazar, Lomberg, Kulak, Rittich

 

Rebuild?

You must be kidding right?

 

Not sure what you were expecting a team of young players and young vets mixed with crap players to do every night.

We've seen what we can do.  We've also seen the players that can be a problem most every night.

Rebuilding a team that has great young players doesn't make sense because they aren't the problem.

Get rid of the fluff. 

 

It doesn't make a lot of sense to keep players on the ice like Stajan, Brouwer, Hathaway, Lazar, and Stone.  Not much has been tried since game 1 of the season.

Still have the 3M line.  Still have the top line intact.  Still play Bennett on the 3rd line with questionable (at times) players.  Still send out Brodie on the PP.  Still send out Brouwer on the PK.  

 

Some things have changed for the better.  Dougie is on the top unit PP after 50 games of futility.  And, it's remarkable but the PP is scoring again.  What? 

Tkachuk is getting playing time with the best passer on the team (PP goals a comin').  The PK was getting used to not being scored on.

 

I get the temptation to trade Brodie or Bennett.  Either of those makes sense if you are after a specific player that brings something that neither can provide.  Monahan and Dougie are the only snipers on the team.  Tkachuk is the score from 10 feet or less guy.  Gaudreau is the playmaker.  Gio and Hamonic are the muscle on the backend.

Kulak is your young version of the good Brodie.  I have hopes for Janko, but he doesn't seem to match Bennett at all.  Backlund and Frolik the guys you want to play to a draw.  The rest of them are just dime a dozen.  

 

I would trade Bennett for Saad, and add Kylington if that's what they wanted.  Brodie for a lesser LD and a RW prospect.  Stajan can stay in the stands.  Sign him for a one-year deal in the simmer so he can get his silver stick next year.  The rest of the thinning can wait till the summer.  I could care less if they buy out Brouwer in the summer.  Sure, a trade would be preferred, but I'm not wasting another minute of ice time on him.  Trade Stone to a sucker like we did with Russell.  Waive Bart to make it complete. 

      

 

 

[MAC331]

13 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

If that's all he's going to do, he already has a letter.

 

If that is all he does you are right but I highly doubt that is the case.

[MAC331]

13 hours ago, 420since1974 said:

I'm not sure if there is a simple solution to this one.

I think that the talent is here, but the team has just not "gelled" yet.

If they were to play harder for each other, I feel that the results would be much better.

Maybe not SC quality, but certainly contender status.

I realise that no player can go full out for an entire season, but when a team comes together like Nashville did late last season, anything is possible.

This team needs a few changes and additions but for the most part has the makings of a good team. The old saying comes to mind " don't quit as success may just be around the corner".

[cross16]

I"m probably going to be alone on this one. but outside of Cameron i'm not firing anyone. I respect people have their own opinions and i respect i'm going to get shredded for this but here is what i'm most tired of. This isn't one season this is 13 years of the organization doing the same thing. For 13 years now the Flames have answered every disappointing season with "ok let's fire the coach or GM". You've gone through 6 coaches in 13 years so give me a break if you are trying to tell me this is a coaching issue. For 13 years now the flames have made moves that look good on paper, asked the team to step up and meet expectations and for 15 years they have failed every team. 6 different coaches haven't been able to get this team to take the next step and we want to put this on coaching? Either the Flames are one of the worst franchises in the history of sport for finding coaches or your problems exist hire up.

 

Time to look higher up here. IMO, since the Darryl Sutter days the flames are always a year to 2 years behind the trend of the NHL. After the lockout the trend was speed and guys who could skate and not the defensive grind it out shell game but Dutter didn't react and the Flames wasted 2 years. Then they game moved to youth and entry level deals and the Flames kept getting older. Now the game is speed, skill, and relentless pursuit and the Flames still insist on being big and truclent and needs to spend high picks and precious cap space on Hamonic, Browuer, Tanner Glass, Lomberg etc. Time for the organization to take a really hard look and what they are doing, how they are doing it, and why do they continue to be behind the movement of where the game is going. I'm still encourage with Treliving because when you look at the drafting they are following that model but at the NHL level too many moves have been made that would have been great 2-3 years ago now, but are missing the boat as to how the game is played today. 

 

Wouldn't hurt them to be more patient too. I liked the rebuild, but signing guys like Brouwer and trading for Hamonic to rush it really set this off course IMO so let's get back to having a bit of patience. Get rid of guys like Stone and let Andersson figure it out, let Jankowski figure it out etc.Put everything and anything on the block and priotizing getting guys that are faster, can score and are relentless. 

 

If you can get a veteran coach, like Quenville, to tied it all together by all means look at it but right now i'm not too excited about the coaching market so I'm more much interested in the organization taking a good hard realistic look at where they are, having some more patience and building a team that can play in today game. I'm tired of the knee jerk reactions and the operating season by season stuff we've seen the last 15 years. It hasn't worked, hardly ever does in pro sports, so do something new. 

 

 

[MAC331]

9 hours ago, ABC923 said:

Time to rebuild the rebuild?  Or would simply changing coaches be enough?  BT may have to go as well, the Hamonic trade looks bad and could get worse if we win the lottery (which is likely since our luck sucks).

 

So who do we keep in a rebuild?  We just committed to Backlund, and Gio's contract may be tough to move for good value.  Should we try to get draft picks back?  

My Keeper List: Tkachuk, Hamilton

Keep Most of These (trading one from this list would shake things up and bring back good assets): Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund, Giordano

Trade Most of These (Players we don't want/can't rebuild around but would bring back good assets): Brodie, Hamonic, Smith, Frolik, Bennett, Jankowski, Ferland, Stone

Dump These for whatever you can get: Brouwer, Versteeg

Gone Anyway: Stajan, Bartkowski

Whatever (Low end players that are fairly interchangeable, but wouldn't bring anything worthwhile back in trade, or players with uncertain abilities): Hathaway, Lazar, Lomberg, Kulak, Rittich

Amazing how this forum lights up with negative feelings from every loss. We have gone through a rebuild while most on here kept expecting the team to win regularly. BT has tried to build in support until the youth are fully equipped with an experience level to take over. I would say we are just about there.

I would say, out with some of the old like Stajan, Versteeg, Brouwer but make the best of Giordano, Backlund, Frolik and Smith for another year or 2.

Another major question is will the identified weaknesses Brodie, Bennett, Lazar or Hathaway (lesser extent) improve or be better enough next season ?????

How much of the current play is coaching and how much is simply not having the right players or players in the right positions ? We set out to "make do" with Ferland as our top line RW, he has done well but we need better. Tkachuk was left with the experienced Backlund and Frolik for another season of seasoning, could he be put to better us soon ? Bennett has endured another season of being saddled with a rookie and whatever else works (kind of). Brodie and Hamonic were to be wonderful together but have been a disaster, talks of trading Brodie or maybe a realignment is required. A team is the sum of all its parts, my solution as some leave is arrange the parts we have to maximize the talents and add a few quality parts where we have weaknesses. Here may be a look at 2018/19.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk

Bennett, Backlund, Nylander (make a trade with BUF)

Ferland, Jankowski, Frolik

Dube, Lazar, Foo

Lomberg, Hathaway (spares)

DEFENSE

Brodie, Hamilton

Giordano, Hamonic

Kulak, Andersson ( see if Stone can go in the BUF deal)

Wotherspoon

GOALIES

Smith, Rittich

[CheersMan]

20 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I"m probably going to be alone on this one. but outside of Cameron i'm not firing anyone. I respect people have their own opinions and i respect i'm going to get shredded for this but here is what i'm most tired of. This isn't one season this is 15 years of the organization doing the same thing. For 15 years now the Flames have answered every disappointing season with "ok let's fire the coach or GM". You've gone through 6 coaches in 15 years so give me a break if you are trying to tell me this is a coaching issue. For 15 years now the flames have made moves that look good on paper, asked the team to step up and meet expectations and for 15 years they have failed every team. 6 different coaches haven't been able to get this team to take the next step and we want to put this on coaching? Either the Flames are one of the worst franchises in the history of sport for finding coaches or your problems exist hire up.

 

Time to look higher up here. IMO, since the Darryl Sutter days the flames are always a year to 2 years behind the trend of the NHL. After the lockout the trend was speed and guys who could skate and not the defensive grind it out shell game but Dutter didn't react and the Flames wasted 2 years. Then they game moved to youth and entry level deals and the Flames kept getting older. Now the game is speed, skill, and relentless pursuit and the Flames still insist on being big and truclent and needs to spend high picks and precious cap space on Hamonic, Browuer, Tanner Glass, Lomberg etc. Time for the organization to take a really hard look and what they are doing, how they are doing it, and why do they continue to be behind the movement of where the game is going. I'm still encourage with Treliving because when you look at the drafting they are following that model but at the NHL level too many moves have been made that would have been great 2-3 years ago now, but are missing the boat as to how the game is played today. 

 

Wouldn't hurt them to be more patient too. I liked the rebuild, but signing guys like Brouwer and trading for Hamonic to rush it really set this off course IMO so let's get back to having a bit of patience. Get rid of guys like Stone and let Andersson figure it out, let Jankowski figure it out etc.Put everything and anything on the block and priotizing getting guys that are faster, can score and are relentless. 

 

If you can get a veteran coach, like Quenville, to tied it all together by all means look at it but right now i'm not too excited about the coaching market so I'm more much interested in the organization taking a good hard realistic look at where they are, having some more patience and building a team that can play in today game. I'm tired of the knee jerk reactions and the operating season by season stuff we've seen the last 15 years. It hasn't worked, hardly ever does in pro sports, so do something new. 

 

 

When they hired Gully we were told that the team is going to start working as a five-man unit, we would be faster and pressure the puck.  I’m not seeing it.  I see us sitting back in a box on the PK, allowing the other team to bring it.  Hartley got crucified on here for doing such things, playing the percentages and allowing shots from the outside.   Sending one guy in on the forecheck is not pressuring the puck.  The 4 losses in our last 5 games I have watched our team get schooled by teams that are faster and pressure the puck, forcing our mistakes.  We are getting out hustled on the ice surface and we are losing.  Our system is defined by the coaches and our system is not working.