So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[conundrumed]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I know i will get the obligatory "it's a PTO so don't sweat it" response but the fact that the Flames even want Tanner Glass in camp is puzzling. 

 

tons of veterans you could have brought in to fill the minimum quota and the fact that he Flames feel its necessary to sign Gazdic and then bring Glass into camp is a puzzling and slightly troubling sign. Both are terrible NHL options. 

it's a PTO don't sweat it, lol, happy to oblige.

Outside of that, no argument here.

I am a little beside myself with exactly those 2.

[cccsberg]

29 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I know i will get the obligatory "it's a PTO so don't sweat it" response but the fact that the Flames even want Tanner Glass in camp is puzzling. 

 

tons of veterans you could have brought in to fill the minimum quota and the fact that he Flames feel its necessary to sign Gazdic and then bring Glass into camp is a puzzling and slightly troubling sign. Both are terrible NHL options. 

Gadzik is a fighting SOB that I don't mind having versus certain teams, like LAK, ANA and EDM to name three.  It would be classic for him to run over McD or DRAI then take Nurse down a peg or two on opening night.  

 

As as far as Glass is concerned I agree, though I don't know much of him.  Perhaps we just need someone to fill space and protect prospects but not be too enticing for the team?  No idea, but likely a couple of AHL openings available for sure.

 

anyone with actual game knowledge of this guy?

[cross16]

1 minute ago, cccsberg said:

Gadzik is a fighting SOB that I don't mind having versus certain teams, like LAK, ANA and EDM to name three.  It would be classic for him to run over McD or DRAI then take Nurse down a peg or two on opening night.  

 

As as far as Glass is concerned I agree, though I don't know much of him.  Perhaps we just need someone to fill space and protect prospects but not be too enticing for the team?  No idea, but likely a couple of AHL openings available for sure.

 

anyone with actual game knowledge of this guy?

 

Under no circumstances should Luke Gazdic be on the ice at the same time as McDavid and/or Drasaitl. I would consider that a firable offence on Gulutzan. I'm somewhat tonque in cheek but ya in now way should he be on the ice in that circumstance. Joking aside I get some people still see the value in these players but I just don't. 

 

to sum up my opinion on watching Glass, I prefer Brandon Bolig as a hockey player. read into that what you will...

[AlbertaBoy12]

6 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Having Versteeg, Bennett and Jagr together IMO would be a huge mistake going forward into the future as both will be gone. I think it is imperative if they want more 5 on 5 scoring they need to put Tkachuk and Bennett together.

Its possible it could be a mistake, but if they want to keep chemistry in lines we have had they might go with that. Versteeg and Jagr could produce enough to improve 5 on 5 scoring its not that unreasonable if mony/johnny get off to a better start, and we see improvement from tkachuk.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Its possible it could be a mistake, but if they want to keep chemistry in lines we have had they might go with that. Versteeg and Jagr could produce enough to improve 5 on 5 scoring its not that unreasonable if mony/johnny get off to a better start, and we see improvement from tkachuk.

 

 

If they play Tkachuk on a different line then I'd be pleased if his output was equal to last season. We don't wanna see a decline, at least not a big one. But if he stays the same and Bennett can improve, with (perhaps) Tkachuk on his line, then that's great for our depth. 

 

Of course, I'd love it if Tkachuk improved his points totals... 

[robrob74]

13 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I think Jagr could mentor either line but I really think he is the quality distraction we need for that line to free up Gaudreau. He is so good with the puck and passing the opposition couldn't leave him uncovered. It may just be me but I would like to see Lazar get a full opportunity to show his talents and I think that would be with Tkachuk and Bennett. I don't want to see him get the same treatment he got in OTT being wasted on the 4th line.

 

True. Jagr could be that for JG&SM. The way Hudler thought the game helped make them so dangerous. 

 

But when will Jagr drop off the face of the hockey earth and have to retire? 

 

I really do hope Lazar can pan out. We've spent so many years with crappy trades that it would be great to have a diamond in the rough trade. Too bad we didn't trade Glencross for Forsberg... wishing...

[MAC331]

9 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Its possible it could be a mistake, but if they want to keep chemistry in lines we have had they might go with that. Versteeg and Jagr could produce enough to improve 5 on 5 scoring its not that unreasonable if mony/johnny get off to a better start, and we see improvement from tkachuk.

Giordano and Brodie had chemistry but look at the positive change that has occurred. I stated earlier that if you slide Ferland in with MB/MF you don't miss a beat and possibly get even better results out that line. Creating another scoring line has to be an objective not only for this coming season but our future going forward. We maybe have Backlund for only this next season (nobody seems to be talking about this possibility) so I think developing chemistry between Bennett and Tkachuk is way more important.

[MAC331]

7 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

True. Jagr could be that for JG&SM. The way Hudler thought the game helped make them so dangerous. 

 

But when will Jagr drop off the face of the hockey earth and have to retire? 

 

I really do hope Lazar can pan out. We've spent so many years with crappy trades that it would be great to have a diamond in the rough trade. Too bad we didn't trade Glencross for Forsberg... wishing...

Jagr is a gamble that he has one more decent season in him, that's all the Flames can hope for now. The glaring hole for him IMO is with JG/SM until someone else presents himself. I like Lazar and every time I watch him he does smart things either with the puck or away from it. I think he could also be a fit with JG/SM later on into the season. I would prefer to see Foo join Bennett and Tkachuk when ready. I would like to see Jankowski replace Stajan eventually staying at C a position he knows well.

[AlbertaBoy12]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Giordano and Brodie had chemistry but look at the positive change that has occurred. I stated earlier that if you slide Ferland in with MB/MF you don't miss a beat and possibly get even better results out that line. Creating another scoring line has to be an objective not only for this coming season but our future going forward. We maybe have Backlund for only this next season (nobody seems to be talking about this possibility) so I think developing chemistry between Bennett and Tkachuk is way more important.

I see what youre saying but arguing against putting a player with backlund because we only have him for one season versus ferland with him for one season seems kind of silly, and ive brought up many times that we proably dont have backlund long term. Further my point was that if the flames want to go with chemistry they have, if they get Jagr, the easiest transition without changing a bunch of lines would be to slide him in with bennett/versteeg who had proven chemistry last season, leaving the other lines intact. I dont think we keep backlund beyond this season if we see janko/bennett break out, but even then we might have him for another season it really depends on bennetts contract. I think youre overstating how long it takes to build chemistry between good players, and the problem really shouldnt be putting tkachuk/bennett together, it should be finding bennett productive linemates. Bennett and versteeg proved chemistry together at the end of last season, I dont want to keep the 3M together necessarily long term. But while chemistry isent hard to build between good players,  if the flames bring in Jagr, I dont think they should reshuffle all the lines, there is a spot on bennetts right side, move him in there. If there is nothing after a day or two with him there, then you look at reworking the lines. I think this is the easiest way to get the team working on important things, and a line of versteeg/bennett/jagr, should put up plenty of scoring for a 3rd line.

[AlbertaBoy12]

9 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

If they play Tkachuk on a different line then I'd be pleased if his output was equal to last season. We don't wanna see a decline, at least not a big one. But if he stays the same and Bennett can improve, with (perhaps) Tkachuk on his line, then that's great for our depth. 

 

Of course, I'd love it if Tkachuk improved his points totals... 

I agree, and ive argued a ton to have tkachuk on bennetts line. But my point is if we bring in Jagr, I dont think the flames should change every line because of it, with moving ferland to backlunds line, and versteeg to the 4th line, with jagr on the 1st line, it just seems to much for camp. The idea of pairs is you should be able to insert various complimentary wingers in spots, but I think camp should be focused on systems not reworking our forward group. If Jagr comes in and you put him on bennetts line, and say swap versteeg/tkachuk, that would be more then fine, and shouldnt be a big change to our group. I think we do see tkachuk with bennett at some point, and id love to see that, im  just not 100% sold it happens this season, especially if we bring Jagr in.

[MAC331]

Just now, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I see what youre saying but arguing against putting a player with backlund because we only have him for one season versus ferland with him for one season seems kind of silly, and ive brought up many times that we proably dont have backlund long term. Further my point was that if the flames want to go with chemistry they have, if they get Jagr, the easiest transition without changing a bunch of lines would be to slide him in with bennett/versteeg who had proven chemistry last season, leaving the other lines intact. I dont think we keep backlund beyond this season if we see janko/bennett break out, but even then we might have him for another season it really depends on bennetts contract. I think youre overstating how long it takes to build chemistry between good players, and the problem really shouldnt be putting tkachuk/bennett together, it should be finding bennett productive linemates. Bennett and versteeg proved chemistry together at the end of last season, I dont want to keep the 3M together necessarily long term. But while chemistry isent hard to build between good players,  if the flames bring in Jagr, I dont think they should reshuffle all the lines, there is a spot on bennetts right side, move him in there. If there is nothing after a day or two with him there, then you look at reworking the lines. I think this is the easiest way to get the team working on important things, and a line of versteeg/bennett/jagr, should put up plenty of scoring for a 3rd line.

I don't think I am overstating anything other than the sooner you start with a positive initiative the better off the team will long term. If we are staying with the creating of pairs those pairs are these IMO.

Gaudreau, Monahan, __________

________, Backlund, Frolik

Tkachuk, Bennett, _____________

________, Stajan, Brouwer

Immediate complimentary players would be Jagr, Ferland, Versteeg and Lazar. GG could almost use these players anywhere in the configuration of lines. Chemistry comes in OK, Better and Best IMO, GG will have to figure it out but I do not necessarily think this means going back to something that worked last season. GG will be aware of those situations that showed some chemistry however a good coach should always be trying to better the team.

[cccsberg]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Jagr is a gamble that he has one more decent season in him, that's all the Flames can hope for now. The glaring hole for him IMO is with JG/SM until someone else presents himself. I like Lazar and every time I watch him he does smart things either with the puck or away from it. I think he could also be a fit with JG/SM later on into the season. I would prefer to see Foo join Bennett and Tkachuk when ready. I would like to see Jankowski replace Stajan eventually staying at C a position he knows well.

 

11 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't think I am overstating anything other than the sooner you start with a positive initiative the better off the team will long term. If we are staying with the creating of pairs those pairs are these IMO.

Gaudreau, Monahan, __________

________, Backlund, Frolik

Tkachuk, Bennett, _____________

________, Stajan, Brouwer

Immediate complimentary players would be Jagr, Ferland, Versteeg and Lazar. GG could almost use these players anywhere in the configuration of lines. Chemistry comes in OK, Better and Best IMO, GG will have to figure it out but I do not necessarily think this means going back to something that worked last season. GG will be aware of those situations that showed some chemistry however a good coach should always be trying to better the team.

I like those pairings, and if Jagr gets signed it makes it likely none of Jankowski, Foo or Poirier make the team until injuries strike.  Personally I'd prefer the latter prospects force their way in, but may be acceptable considering injuries and at least three openings the following year as Stajan, Versteeg and Jagr are gone.  

[AlbertaBoy12]

21 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't think I am overstating anything other than the sooner you start with a positive initiative the better off the team will long term. If we are staying with the creating of pairs those pairs are these IMO.

Gaudreau, Monahan, __________

________, Backlund, Frolik

Tkachuk, Bennett, _____________

________, Stajan, Brouwer

Immediate complimentary players would be Jagr, Ferland, Versteeg and Lazar. GG could almost use these players anywhere in the configuration of lines. Chemistry comes in OK, Better and Best IMO, GG will have to figure it out but I do not necessarily think this means going back to something that worked last season. GG will be aware of those situations that showed some chemistry however a good coach should always be trying to better the team.

I agree the coach should be trying to better the team. My point is that versteeg/bennett have chemistry, and it wouldnt surprise me if he sticks with that line, putting Jagr on the right side if we did acquire him. It seems to me you only see the line up one way, and thats that in a nutshell. While the line up you continually suggest on here is mostly my preferred line up, as ive now said multiple times I think tkachuk/bennett could be a good fit. I dont think it would be overly surprising to see tkachuk stay with backlund, and GG keep versteeg with bennett/jagr(if we did get him). Bennett played good with versteeg/chiasson down the stretch, and they were a good 3rd line, the addition of Jagr would make that line much better, it would be a outstanding 3rd line, which is why I wouldnt be surprised if that did happen.

[cccsberg]

Speaking of hockey, which Flames(s) are going to lead the way scoring and in so doing put pressure on management to keep them up?  Personally here is my take.

 

Valimaki:  Although I believe he could do so, he has stated he has a 2-year plan to make the NHL which is huge so I suspect he will be more than happy to fit in but won't press to ensure he makes the team.

 

Andersson:  Similar to above but next in line for promotion, supposedly.  I expect he'll be cautious trying to fit in but playing a simple, effective game, showing he's ready.  

 

Kylington:  Comes in with a chip on his shoulder, going balls to the wall when he goes, highlighting his strengths while trying to better pick his spots.  If he can accomplish both he'll make a strong case for time up with the Flames.

 

Wotherspoon:  Steady, strong and unremarkable highlighting his strengths which is steady, simple D play.

 

Foo:  May be a bit nervous as this is his first camp and he knows he has a chance.  Once he overcomes nerves if he can play fast and add offensively he'll push right to the end of camp, but likely will be a late cut and early call-up.

 

Poirier:  He's got a fresh start after overcoming personal demons, but knows his time with the Flames is coming to a head.  It's now or never and I expect its full out kamikaze, hitting and driving net like early Bennett on steroids.  If he can do that while meshing with his assigned line mates he'll push right to the end AND make the team to start the season.  

 

Lazar:  See Poirier above but with different early career issues.  Because of the trade and historical successes he'll get a long look and will have to play his way off the team.  I expect he will not and grow into a solid middle 6 winger.  

 

Pribyl:  Due to injuries he's still an unknown that will have to prove it at the AHL level before an NHL shot.  He's got one final year to do so before his time is up.  

 

Mangiapanne:  A dark horse candidate that is expected to go back to the AHL and likely will, accepting he still needs to grow and he'll get a real shot next year.  May have a great pre-season as the pressure is off and he showcases his talent.

 

Jankowski:  See Andersson above, but a little more polished as he has faced the pressure before (NCAA) and overcome, while making steady progression every year.  The Flames will be patient here, as with Lazar but he'll be a late cut and early call-up unless the team makes a miracle training camp trade which is highly unlikely.

 

Thoughts?

 

[MAC331]

28 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I agree the coach should be trying to better the team. My point is that versteeg/bennett have chemistry, and it wouldnt surprise me if he sticks with that line, putting Jagr on the right side if we did acquire him. It seems to me you only see the line up one way, and thats that in a nutshell. While the line up you continually suggest on here is mostly my preferred line up, as ive now said multiple times I think tkachuk/bennett could be a good fit. I dont think it would be overly surprising to see tkachuk stay with backlund, and GG keep versteeg with bennett/jagr(if we did get him). Bennett played good with versteeg/chiasson down the stretch, and they were a good 3rd line, the addition of Jagr would make that line much better, it would be a outstanding 3rd line, which is why I wouldnt be surprised if that did happen.

I guess I'm not making my point strong enough with respect to "chemistry" which is if you get the strong pairings right just about any "good" player could work. Sorry but if they are going to go through all the bother to bring in Jagr I see him as the perfect fit with JG/SM.

[MAC331]

5 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Speaking of hockey, which Flames(s) are going to lead the way scoring put pressure on management to keep them up?  Personally here is my take.

 

Valimaki:  Although I believe he could do so, he has stated he has a 2-year plan to make the NHL which is huge so I suspect he will be more than happy to fit in but won't press to ensure he makes the team.

 

Andersson:  Similar to above but next in line for promotion, supposedly.  I expect he'll be cautious trying to fit in but playing a simple, effective game, showing he's ready.  

 

Kylington:  Comes in with a chip on his shoulder, going balls to the wall when he goes, highlighting his strengths while trying to better pick his spots.  If he can accomplish both he'll make a strong case for time up with the Flames.

 

Wotherspoon:  Steady, strong and unremarkable highlighting his strengths which is steady, simple D play.

 

Foo:  May be a bit nervous as this is his first camp and he knows he has a chance.  Once he overcomes nerves if he can play fast and add offensively he'll push right to the end of camp, but likely will be a late cut and early call-up.

 

Poirier:  He's got a fresh start after overcoming personal demons, but knows his time with the Flames is coming to a head.  It's now or never and I expect its full out kamikaze, hitting and driving net like early Bennett on steroids.  If he can do that while meshing with his assigned line mates he'll push right to the end AND make the team to start the season.  

 

Lazar:  See Poirier above but with different early career issues.  Because of the trade and historical successes he'll get a long look and will have to play his way off the team.  I expect he will not and grow into a solid middle 6 winger.  

 

Pribyl:  Due to injuries he's still an unknown that will have to prove it at the AHL level before an NHL shot.  He's got one final year to do so before his time is up.  

 

Mangiapanne:  A dark horse candidate that is expected to go back to the AHL and likely will, accepting he still needs to grow and he'll get a real shot next year.  May have a great pre-season as the pressure is off and he showcases his talent.

 

Thoughts?

 

I could see Valimaki make this team next season only because he is likely better than either Kulak or Wotherspoon (if still here)

Andersson I would like to see get some NHL time this season. Kylington will not likely be pushed up for another season yet.

I think all of these players outside of Lazar (who makes the team) represents all the over-ripening depth we will have available to the main team.

[cccsberg]

50 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I could see Valimaki make this team next season only because he is likely better than either Kulak or Wotherspoon (if still here)

Andersson I would like to see get some NHL time this season. Kylington will not likely be pushed up for another season yet.

I think all of these players outside of Lazar (who makes the team) represents all the over-ripening depth we will have available to the main team.

Interesting perspective that the team pushes up a prospect versus the player forcing their way up in spite of management's plan.  In management's plan probably the only guys up this year are Kulak and Lazar, whereas I believe Poirier especially, then Jankowski and Kylington will force the issue, and perhaps even others.  

[travel_dude]

51 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I could see Valimaki make this team next season only because he is likely better than either Kulak or Wotherspoon (if still here)

Andersson I would like to see get some NHL time this season. Kylington will not likely be pushed up for another season yet.

I think all of these players outside of Lazar (who makes the team) represents all the over-ripening depth we will have available to the main team.

 

The unfortunate thing about Lazar is that we have to keep him on the roster or chance losing a guy we traded a 2nd for.  In some ways the waiver situation can have a bigger impact about where the guy end up over whether he has played well enough for the spot.

 

Poirier and Shinkaruk are the same.  If Foo outplayed Lazar, do you gift the player because of waiver status or just keep best available.  Tough call.  

[MAC331]

31 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The unfortunate thing about Lazar is that we have to keep him on the roster or chance losing a guy we traded a 2nd for.  In some ways the waiver situation can have a bigger impact about where the guy end up over whether he has played well enough for the spot.

 

Poirier and Shinkaruk are the same.  If Foo outplayed Lazar, do you gift the player because of waiver status or just keep best available.  Tough call.  

I don't think it is a tough call at all only because I really don't believe player's such as Foo will disrupt the initial plans of using Lazar. They went and got him at the expense of a 2nd so the intention is to use him. Do I think contract circumstances dictate certain moves or non-moves yes. Camp is a small sample which I don't think holds much weight to alter any plans in place.

[Flyerfan52]

11 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

True. Jagr could be that for JG&SM. The way Hudler thought the game helped make them so dangerous. 

 

But when will Jagr drop off the face of the hockey earth and have to retire? 

 

I really do hope Lazar can pan out. We've spent so many years with crappy trades that it would be great to have a diamond in the rough trade. Too bad we didn't trade Glencross for Forsberg... wishing...

Chris Chelios played a hard nosed game including in the rough & tumble days as a defenseman. He retired @ 48.

Jagr took 3 years off to play in the no-hit KHL , played mostly in the days that the NHL had changed rules to pussyfy the game & is more of a fitness freak than Chelios ever was. So his body has less wear & tear.

It'd be a 1 year low risk/high return gamble if we got him with a low base/good bonus structure. With the base pay we get a great influence on the young players while every bonus he hits means the team is scoring/winning. I really don't see a down side to that. (I'd rather win then experiment with kids that may not be ready or hoping other teams rejects re-discover their game)

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

I don't think it is a tough call at all only because I really don't believe player's such as Foo will disrupt the initial plans of using Lazar. They went and got him at the expense of a 2nd so the intention is to use him. Do I think contract circumstances dictate certain moves or non-moves yes. Camp is a small sample which I don't think holds much weight to alter any plans in place.

Foo is probably the wrong one to compare him to.  Poirier and Shinkaruk are in the same boat as Lazar; high draft pick used to obtain, all waiver eligible.  

[AlbertaBoy12]

2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I guess I'm not making my point strong enough with respect to "chemistry" which is if you get the strong pairings right just about any "good" player could work. Sorry but if they are going to go through all the bother to bring in Jagr I see him as the perfect fit with JG/SM.

No youre making your argument more then clear. I just dont see the obsession of putting jagr with SM, he could just as easily fit with bennett. Yes that is what I said strong pairings and any good complimentary player could work, I think ferland is a better deterrent for JG when he in on the ice if he can learn to settle things without fighting then Jagr will ever be. The SM line doesnt need a guy like Jagr, they need someone to be a deterrent for slashing JG, while bennett needs someone who he can cycle the puck with and make plays like Jagr.

[MAC331]

59 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Foo is probably the wrong one to compare him to.  Poirier and Shinkaruk are in the same boat as Lazar; high draft pick used to obtain, all waiver eligible.  

I don't know what they will do with Poirier and Shinkaruk, it seems like BT is rolling the dice with quite a few of our cusp players, banking on no one picking them up.

[cccsberg]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The unfortunate thing about Lazar is that we have to keep him on the roster or chance losing a guy we traded a 2nd for.  In some ways the waiver situation can have a bigger impact about where the guy end up over whether he has played well enough for the spot.

 

Poirier and Shinkaruk are the same.  If Foo outplayed Lazar, do you gift the player because of waiver status or just keep best available.  Tough call.  

Shinkaruk we gave up a 2nd (Granlund) for.  Poirier we gave up a 1st for.  Foo and Pribyl we gave up nothing except the team's integrity and reputation, re: free agent signings.  Lazar is no different than Shinkaruk and worth less than Poirier.

[MAC331]

58 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

No youre making your argument more then clear. I just dont see the obsession of putting jagr with SM, he could just as easily fit with bennett. Yes that is what I said strong pairings and any good complimentary player could work, I think ferland is a better deterrent for JG when he in on the ice if he can learn to settle things without fighting then Jagr will ever be. The SM line doesnt need a guy like Jagr, they need someone to be a deterrent for slashing JG, while bennett needs someone who he can cycle the puck with and make plays like Jagr.

This is where we disagree, I think they need another playmaker to free up JG so he can score more. You are looking for someone to stick up for him and hope the opposition respects that Ferland is on the ice. Ferland will do some of that, be hard along the boards and be another sniper but that leaves JG being the only feeder so guess who the focus will be on.