So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Bt has made some dang good trades. Maybe he's waiting for a UFA to get desperate & sign on the cheap. Or wait to see what's available via trade or the waiver wire when teams solidify their roster after training camp. Maybe he can pull off another wowser.

 

Jets signing Hendricks surprised the heck out of me. All I can figure is injury insurance while using him in very limited situations. My guess is he'll get to know the pressbox well. I hope he likes popcorn.

 

The Jets definitely got lucky in the lotto scoring Laine @ #2. The following year I was treated to the Flyers moving up to #2 for Patrick. Flukey it happened to my #3 & then #1 teams back to back.

As I mentioned when putting that trade together I assumed the pick as around #20. If the Jets did end up out of the playoffs, won the lottery for 1st OA but had traded the pick that trade would be uber lopsided.

Trying to put a fair trade together I even considered Vesalainen (the big Finnish RW the Jets took @ #24) with the Jets adding a pick as he & Valimaki have = NHL experience. It would be like the Flames trading down 8 spots after the fact to exchange players by position of need while replacing a pick that BT spent well. With both Finns being unknowns I just couldn't decide what pick(s) would be fair.

 

SN has their annual team preview up today & figure the player to watch is Bennett. They (like many here) suggest @ least trying him on Gaudreau/Monahan's RW.

They feel with a stronger start than last year the Flames will be fighting off the Oilers (with it being close) for @ least the #2 spot in the Pacific (in the Ducks preview they figure Anaheim will be hard pressed to keep the Alberta teams @ bay). They seem very positive about the Flames.

I'd still like to add Jagr myself as if he clicks on the top line Bennett has an extra year to get back to center. I also don't want to have to rely on Foo or Poirier either (although if either is gold in camp it'd be a nice bonus).

 

If they traded for a 1st and that ended up being 1st OA, then you would have to wonder the value of keeping the 1OA versus trading down to 3rd or 4th.  I have no problem with Ekblad being taken 1st overall, but there hasn't been anyone else on D rated as #1 since then.  The other thing is we would have a clearer sense of Kylington and Andersson, as well as see where Fox is.  

 

In all likelyhood, WPG drafts mid-teens.  I don't think there is anyone in that range right now that would be worth losing Juuso for, especially a mid-tier guy like Armia.  The risk/reward has to be a lot higher for me.  

[conundrumed]

8 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Huh?

I denied nothing about Backlund/Frolik. I speak highly of both & hope Backlund re-signs.

I'm not sour on Bennett. He's just progressing slower than I hoped.

Where did you find negatives in my post? I stated that every player has to take winning seriously enough to do their part @ both ends of the ice.

BTW, the Flyers & Jets have nothing to do with this.

I'm not saying we're bad. I was stating my opinion on what the players need to do to make the team the best they can this year.

 

You seem to be the 1 making negatives out of nothing.

Sorry buddy, it's August. I thought you were making arguments on Mony, JG and Bennett that are worse case scenarios.

My bad.

[AlbertaBoy12]

12 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I am in no way supporting macs stand on the player, but I am just wondering how many goals do we expect from Gaudreau and Monahan'a winger? 

 

I guess this could be a question for any winger they get. What will make a successful 3rd on the line?

 

For me, as long as Monahan and Gaudreau get anywhere from 25-35 goals, then their winger should get 15-20 goals and that line is successful.

 

I know now we shouldn't predict that but that's what we are on a site like this for.

Thats the way ive looked at it all along which is why if ferland is in that spot I dont see it as a problem because honestly I could see him potting 20 on that line for a full year. He got 15 last year and really only played on the 1st line a couple months. While some people might disagree about his place on that line, I dont think your team is doing half bad with 3 good pairs and then complimentary guys in your top 9.. If we had lines of gaudreau/mony(who have proved they can be successful with any winger really even chiasson put up points there), backlund/frolik who have also proven the ability to carry a winger and finally tkachuk/bennett who both have great potential, that would be a good top 9. The great thing about that is you spread out even strength scoring and then on the PP everyone can come together to provide a big punch.

 

7 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I like what I saw of him in the SC series, he is tenacious, plays the game hard and showed he knows how to score. he would be a C switched to RW with a RHS which can be used in certain face off draw situations. If we have these solid pairing for our forward lines we should be looking for complimentary players, this is where I think players such Sissons, Lazar, Foo to name a few can start filling these positions and have success.

I agree with what youre saying I misunderstood what you were going for and I would agree with you.

[Flyerfan52]

10 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Sorry buddy, it's August. I thought you were making arguments on Mony, JG and Bennett that are worse case scenarios.

My bad.

No problem. It's the dog days & we're all getting antsy.

[MAC331]

7 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Thats the way ive looked at it all along which is why if ferland is in that spot I dont see it as a problem because honestly I could see him potting 20 on that line for a full year. He got 15 last year and really only played on the 1st line a couple months. While some people might disagree about his place on that line, I dont think your team is doing half bad with 3 good pairs and then complimentary guys in your top 9.. If we had lines of gaudreau/mony(who have proved they can be successful with any winger really even chiasson put up points there), backlund/frolik who have also proven the ability to carry a winger and finally tkachuk/bennett who both have great potential, that would be a good top 9. The great thing about that is you spread out even strength scoring and then on the PP everyone can come together to provide a big punch.

 

I agree with what youre saying I misunderstood what you were going for and I would agree with you.

There are a number of current players that need to progress and also show they belong in the big picture. Lazar would be the first name that comes up for me. I really hope he can be a better than good complimentary player for us. Bennett and Tkachuk are the obvious ones we need to have the most progress with in order to have a better season. I know you are against the Jagr addition and I agree we have a fine group without him. I see a couple of pluses to adding him, I do think he would be a great line mate for JG and SM. The other plus is my wanting to see Ferland with MB and MF for more of a tenacious checking role and secondary scoring from that line.

Anyways it should be interesting to see if Jagr is added and if so or not how GG goes about shaping our forward lines.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

There are a number of current players that need to progress and also show they belong in the big picture. Lazar would be the first name that comes up for me. I really hope he can be a better than good complimentary player for us. Bennett and Tkachuk are the obvious ones we need to have the most progress with in order to have a better season. I know you are against the Jagr addition and I agree we have a fine group without him. I see a couple of pluses to adding him, I do think he would be a great line mate for JG and SM. The other plus is my wanting to see Ferland with MB and MF for more of a tenacious checking role and secondary scoring from that line.

Anyways it should be interesting to see if Jagr is added and if so or not how GG goes about shaping our forward lines.

 

The Jagr signing allows you to play him with Monahan or Bennett.  If he plays with Monahan, then Tkachuk or Ferland play their natural side with Bennett.  If he plays with Bennett, then you can play Ferland or Tkachuk with Monahan.  Starting Lazar on the 4th line is not unreasonable.  

 

Janko is probably ready for the NHL.  Stajan will likely have to fight for games this year, if everything goes right.  Do that while you still have him.  If Janko isn't quite ready, then send him down.  

 

So to spell it out in lines:

Johnny-Monahan-Jagr

Ferland-Backlund-Frolik (3 Mike line)

Tkachuk-Bennett-Versteeg

Stajan/Janko-Lazar/Janko-Brouwer (many looks to that line possible)

 

or

 

Johnny-Monahan-Tkachuk

Versteeg-Backlund-Frolik (3 Mike line)

Ferland-Bennett-Jagr

Stajan/Janko-Lazar/Janko-Brouwer (many looks to that line possible)

 

Let me put it this way, the lines have better options with Jagr than without him.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

The Jagr signing allows you to play him with Monahan or Bennett.  If he plays with Monahan, then Tkachuk or Ferland play their natural side with Bennett.  If he plays with Bennett, then you can play Ferland or Tkachuk with Monahan.  Starting Lazar on the 4th line is not unreasonable.  

 

Janko is probably ready for the NHL.  Stajan will likely have to fight for games this year, if everything goes right.  Do that while you still have him.  If Janko isn't quite ready, then send him down.  

 

So to spell it out in lines:

Johnny-Monahan-Jagr

Ferland-Backlund-Frolik (3 Mike line)

Tkachuk-Bennett-Versteeg

Stajan/Janko-Lazar/Janko-Brouwer (many looks to that line possible)

 

or

 

Johnny-Monahan-Tkachuk

Versteeg-Backlund-Frolik (3 Mike line)

Ferland-Bennett-Jagr

Stajan/Janko-Lazar/Janko-Brouwer (many looks to that line possible)

 

Let me put it this way, the lines have better options with Jagr than without him.

I prefer your 1st scenario. Our4th line will have some real quality options and this is why I see Jankowski in Stockton initially. Hamilton and Hathaway might be with him.

[conundrumed]

12 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

No problem. It's the dog days & we're all getting antsy.

I'm firing up my propaganda machine! Mony-JG will have their best seasons to date, Bennett-Tkachuk will combine for 45G and 100 pts.

Backlund will steadily improve on production and we'll be in the top 10 in GF and GA.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I'm firing up my propaganda machine! Mony-JG will have their best seasons to date, Bennett-Tkachuk will combine for 45G and 100 pts.

Backlund will steadily improve on production and we'll be in the top 10 in GF and GA.

 

I can easily see the first one.  Last year Johnny had a tough start followed by a bunch of slashes.  If Monahan hadn't had a slow start as well, their numbers would have been closer to the 2015/16 season.  The second isn't crazy or far fetched.  Tkachuk had 48 points with the toughest assignments on the team.  I think Backlund may actually be higher in votes for the Selke.  As for the last part, I expect rop 10 in goal differential.  No Wideman.  Way less penalties. 

[MAC331]

12 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I can easily see the first one.  Last year Johnny had a tough start followed by a bunch of slashes.  If Monahan hadn't had a slow start as well, their numbers would have been closer to the 2015/16 season.  The second isn't crazy or far fetched.  Tkachuk had 48 points with the toughest assignments on the team.  I think Backlund may actually be higher in votes for the Selke.  As for the last part, I expect rop 10 in goal differential.  No Wideman.  Way less penalties. 

I don't see them using Tkachuk with JG and SM, not this season. I think Bennett and Tkachuk together would be something special in the making for both of them.

[AlbertaBoy12]

33 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't see them using Tkachuk with JG and SM, not this season. I think Bennett and Tkachuk together would be something special in the making for both of them.

I agree. I think the only way to go is to create 3 great pairings, and see how that helps the team. IF jagr is brought in im sure we see him play with mony or bennett which could shift around ferland/versteeg in the top 9. But Im not sure we do I guess we will see.

[cccsberg]

13 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I agree. I think the only way to go is to create 3 great pairings, and see how that helps the team. IF jagr is brought in im sure we see him play with mony or bennett which could shift around ferland/versteeg in the top 9. But Im not sure we do I guess we will see.

Set up three strong pairings then fill in from there.  That should provide three strong lines and spread the offence around, making it much harder to defend.  The key is with the three pairings and to date only Backlund-Frolik has proven to be dominant in all situations.  If this doesn't work until we bring in and get settled strong prospects, they may need to go with two dominant lines, ie keep 3M and put SB with SM.

[robrob74]

31 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I agree. I think the only way to go is to create 3 great pairings, and see how that helps the team. IF jagr is brought in im sure we see him play with mony or bennett which could shift around ferland/versteeg in the top 9. But Im not sure we do I guess we will see.

 

If Jagr came in, couldn't he be a good mentor for Bennett and Tkachuk?

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

I don't see them using Tkachuk with JG and SM, not this season. I think Bennett and Tkachuk together would be something special in the making for both of them.

 

As much as I would like to see how it worked out, I think we need to have a secondary scoring line, not load up one line.  JG-Mony, Backlund-Frolik, Tkachuk-Bennett, Stajan-Janko works for me.  Two lines whose job is to score, two lines whose job is to prevent goals.  Fill in the 3rd player for each line with whoever is best there.  If we sign Jagr, we have more options.; Ferland, Jagr, Versteeg, Lazar, Brouwer.

 

BTW, we offered Tanner Glass a PTO.    

[AlbertaBoy12]

30 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Set up three strong pairings then fill in from there.  That should provide three strong lines and spread the offence around, making it much harder to defend.  The key is with the three pairings and to date only Backlund-Frolik has proven to be dominant in all situations.  If this doesn't work until we bring in and get settled strong prospects, they may need to go with two dominant lines, ie keep 3M and put SB with SM.

 

16 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

If Jagr came in, couldn't he be a good mentor for Bennett and Tkachuk?

It might not work out but both mony/johnny and backlund/frolik have proven that they can be very good without a 3rd member on the line.  Mony/Johnny were very good last season with chiasson that line( who as far as I know is unsigned still), they also have spent time with david jones, you could even make the arguement with ferland there that hes just a complimentary player. While mony/johnny have not been great defensively in the past, its not their role and they have been very good offensively no matter who is on that line, so I dont see the problem. 

 

Ive said all along that if Jagr was brought in I see him with bennett/tkachuk, as I think sheltering old man Jagr with two kids would be the perfect usage. That leaves you with versteeg on backlunds line and ferland with mony/johnny, makings for a very very strong top 9. But I also think Jagr would have to come in at the right price for it to make sense, also you are almost guranteeing no young guys will come in if you sign Jagr, with the exception of janko possibly, but very unlikely. I would assume the line up is set without Jagr, Ie some combination of

 

Johnny-mony-ferland

Frolik-Backlund-Brouwer

Tkachuk-bennett-versteeg

Stajan-Janko-Lazar

 

However those lines shake out, I really doubt we see any more big moves. I wouldnt be surprised to see tanner glass become an extra forward if he beats out gazdic, with one of them being here in Calgary and one in stockton, with the other extra being hamilton. But at the same time GG likes to keep the roster small so  who knows.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

If Jagr came in, couldn't he be a good mentor for Bennett and Tkachuk?

I think Jagr could mentor either line but I really think he is the quality distraction we need for that line to free up Gaudreau. He is so good with the puck and passing the opposition couldn't leave him uncovered. It may just be me but I would like to see Lazar get a full opportunity to show his talents and I think that would be with Tkachuk and Bennett. I don't want to see him get the same treatment he got in OTT being wasted on the 4th line.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

 

It might not work out but both mony/johnny and backlund/frolik have proven that they can be very good without a 3rd member on the line.  Mony/Johnny were very good last season with chiasson that line( who as far as I know is unsigned still), they also have spent time with david jones, you could even make the arguement with ferland there that hes just a complimentary player. While mony/johnny have not been great defensively in the past, its not their role and they have been very good offensively no matter who is on that line, so I dont see the problem. 

 

Ive said all along that if Jagr was brought in I see him with bennett/tkachuk, as I think sheltering old man Jagr with two kids would be the perfect usage. That leaves you with versteeg on backlunds line and ferland with mony/johnny, makings for a very very strong top 9. But I also think Jagr would have to come in at the right price for it to make sense, also you are almost guranteeing no young guys will come in if you sign Jagr, with the exception of janko possibly, but very unlikely. I would assume the line up is set without Jagr, Ie some combination of

 

Johnny-mony-ferland

Frolik-Backlund-Brouwer

Tkachuk-bennett-versteeg

Stajan-Janko-Lazar

 

However those lines shake out, I really doubt we see any more big moves. I wouldnt be surprised to see tanner glass become an extra forward if he beats out gazdic, with one of them being here in Calgary and one in stockton, with the other extra being hamilton. But at the same time GG likes to keep the roster small so  who knows.

Should the Jagr thing not happen sticking with Ferland initially would be the way to go. I would use Versteeg with Backlund and Frolik if you want some additional offense. Without knowing what a line of say Tkachuk, Bennett, Lazar will produce having Versteeg up with MB/MF makes sense to me. Let Brouwer and Stajan anchor the last line which leaves Jankowski out but this could be a way to start the season. They will have Gadzic, Lomberg and now Tanner Glass battling it out for the last LW spot.

[AlbertaBoy12]

2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Should the Jagr thing not happen sticking with Ferland initially would be the way to go. I would use Versteeg with Backlund and Frolik if you want some additional offense. Without knowing what a line of say Tkachuk, Bennett, Lazar will produce having Versteeg up with MB/MF makes sense to me. Let Brouwer and Stajan anchor the last line which leaves Jankowski out but this could be a way to start the season. They will have Gadzic, Lomberg and now Tanner Glass battling it out for the last LW spot.

I agree it really depends how camp goes right. If jagr comes in, I do see him playing with bennett, but I think brouwer should get a chance to redeem himself. I doubt we will see him on backlunds line, but it would be a good spot for him to go. It really depends though how camp goes in my opinion. I dont think we see too much shuffling as they will want to get chemistry going, but I wouldnt even be surprised if Jagr came in to see him versteeg and bennett on a line, with tkachuk staying with backlund.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

They will have Gadzic, Lomberg and now Tanner Glass battling it out for the last LW spot.

If you mean the 13th forward, then it's possibly one of them.  Gully doesn't like having 14F on the roster.

My preference for the 13th F would be a guy that rotates in every so often.  Call up Gazdic or Glass when you play a team you need to start a fight.  

 

If I was differentiating between locks and others, I would lay it out like this:

 

Locks (without Jagr):

Johnny, Monahan, Ferland, Tkachuk, Backlund, Frolik, Bennett, Brouwer, Versteeg

 

Battling it out for inclusion in lineup nightly:

Stajan, Lazar,  Janko, Hathaway

 

Callup for occasional games:

Foo, Gazdic/Glass

[MAC331]

17 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I agree it really depends how camp goes right. If jagr comes in, I do see him playing with bennett, but I think brouwer should get a chance to redeem himself. I doubt we will see him on backlunds line, but it would be a good spot for him to go. It really depends though how camp goes in my opinion. I dont think we see too much shuffling as they will want to get chemistry going, but I wouldnt even be surprised if Jagr came in to see him versteeg and bennett on a line, with tkachuk staying with backlund.

Having Versteeg, Bennett and Jagr together IMO would be a huge mistake going forward into the future as both will be gone. I think it is imperative if they want more 5 on 5 scoring they need to put Tkachuk and Bennett together.

[MAC331]

Just now, travel_dude said:

If you mean the 13th forward, then it's possibly one of them.  Gully doesn't like having 14F on the roster.

My preference for the 13th F would be a guy that rotates in every so often.  Call up Gazdic or Glass when you play a team you need to start a fight.  

 

If I was differentiating between locks and others, I would lay it out like this:

 

Locks (without Jagr):

Johnny, Monahan, Ferland, Tkachuk, Backlund, Frolik, Bennett, Brouwer, Versteeg

 

Battling it out for inclusion in lineup nightly:

Stajan, Lazar,  Janko, Hathaway

 

Callup for occasional games:

Foo, Gazdic/Glass

We will have to see who makes the roster as I really don't think Jankowski stays up. As for your assumption on what GG likes to do with his spares I will wait and see to be surprised if he doesn't carry 2 extra forwards.

[travel_dude]

50 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

We will have to see who makes the roster as I really don't think Jankowski stays up. As for your assumption on what GG likes to do with his spares I will wait and see to be surprised if he doesn't carry 2 extra forwards.

 

It's not an assumption.  He has said that on more than one occasion.  

[MAC331]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

It's not an assumption.  He has said that on more than one occasion.  

So you think a person never changes their minds ? we have a number of players worth carrying as a few extra forwards.

[cccsberg]

10 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

 

It might not work out but both mony/johnny and backlund/frolik have proven that they can be very good without a 3rd member on the line.  Mony/Johnny were very good last season with chiasson that line( who as far as I know is unsigned still), they also have spent time with david jones, you could even make the arguement with ferland there that hes just a complimentary player. While mony/johnny have not been great defensively in the past, its not their role and they have been very good offensively no matter who is on that line, so I dont see the problem. 

 

Ive said all along that if Jagr was brought in I see him with bennett/tkachuk, as I think sheltering old man Jagr with two kids would be the perfect usage. That leaves you with versteeg on backlunds line and ferland with mony/johnny, makings for a very very strong top 9. But I also think Jagr would have to come in at the right price for it to make sense, also you are almost guranteeing no young guys will come in if you sign Jagr, with the exception of janko possibly, but very unlikely. I would assume the line up is set without Jagr, Ie some combination of

 

Johnny-mony-ferland

Frolik-Backlund-Brouwer

Tkachuk-bennett-versteeg

Stajan-Janko-Lazar

 

However those lines shake out, I really doubt we see any more big moves. I wouldnt be surprised to see tanner glass become an extra forward if he beats out gazdic, with one of them being here in Calgary and one in stockton, with the other extra being hamilton. But at the same time GG likes to keep the roster small so  who knows.

Although I like the idea of switching Brouwer and Jankowski, your line-up is pretty good.  I like it.  Hopefully the Flames will use at least half the preseason to settle line chemistry versus juggling guys right up to the end.

 

To start the season I hope Jankowski makes it, and Kulak too.  I'd like to see 2-3 others but that's not likely.  What is likely is injuries which will provide solid opportunities for prospects on the verge.  They need to come in and make a difference, which might allow for some trades before year-end.  

[cross16]

I know i will get the obligatory "it's a PTO so don't sweat it" response but the fact that the Flames even want Tanner Glass in camp is puzzling. 

 

tons of veterans you could have brought in to fill the minimum quota and the fact that he Flames feel its necessary to sign Gazdic and then bring Glass into camp is a puzzling and slightly troubling sign. Both are terrible NHL options.