So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[MAC331]

14 hours ago, zima said:

The fact we haven't done any PTO's or UFA's to this point gives me hope that they Management is opening the door for our kids to show up and prove they want to play in the Bigs.

I would agree but unlikely out of the chute with Brouwer, Stajan and Versteeg on the roster. I appears to me BT is initially going with the experience factor and may be prepared to adjust from there throughout the season if necessary. I'm thinking Jankowski and Foo start out in Stockton.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, MAC331 said:

This is an interesting point because I believe it to be true. Hudler was a 3rd line, 2nd line winger with DET and even with us until he starting being used with Monahan and then the two of them. Hudler had the experience but he also had great hockey sense of where to be at any given time on the ice. He was that 3rd threat on that line because along with his smarts he was a very good passer and shooter himself. The player I have seen some of the same traits with is Lazar. It may take some time to recognize this with Lazar because he hasn't the time in that Hudler did has he emerged but Lazar is worth watching this season. The Flames have provided him a new lease on his hockey life so let's see what he does with it. Another reason I would like to see him with Bennett not shuffled to 4th line duties.

 

 

The thing about Hudler is, he can stick handle in a phone booth. He has very good vision and utilizes line mates. Or used to... he was not the fastest, but played smart and so the game moved fast, or he knew how to slow it down enough to open up ice for others.

[MAC331]

6 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

The thing about Hudler is, he can stick handle in a phone booth. He has very good vision and utilizes line mates. Or used to... he was not the fastest, but played smart and so the game moved fast, or he knew how to slow it down enough to open up ice for others.

Agree on all accounts and this is why I believe we need someone like him again so the opposition cannot shut down JG as the sole distributor of the puck on that line. This is why I think the distraction of Ferland's presence will work to a certain degree but just some physical presence and being another sniper will not work 100% for them.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Agree on all accounts and this is why I believe we need someone like him again so the opposition cannot shut down JG as the sole distributor of the puck on that line. This is why I think the distraction of Ferland's presence will work to a certain degree but just some physical presence and being another sniper will not work 100% for them.

 

 

Ferland shows signs of dipsy-doodles, but doesn't do it enough. He can maneuver around opponents. Ferland needs to maintain confidence.

 

his skill set maybe more for a 3rd liner, and yet, I think that makes us deeper as a team. 

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, MAC331 said:

This is an interesting point because I believe it to be true. Hudler was a 3rd line, 2nd line winger with DET and even with us until he starting being used with Monahan and then the two of them. Hudler had the experience but he also had great hockey sense of where to be at any given time on the ice. He was that 3rd threat on that line because along with his smarts he was a very good passer and shooter himself.

 

He developed a lot of chemistry with Johnny that first half season.  They were pretty darn good together.  After they put Monahan with the two, they became one of the best lines in hockey (especially March that year).  The part that seemed to disappear the next year was the laser accuracy in his shots, or even his taking shots.  

 

One thing that was different last year was that Gully tended to deploy the top line against top lines, regardless of home or road games.  No, I don't think you have to shelter them, but you should be using every advantage you have, such as sending out Johnny's line against the weakest D or 4th lines.  Power vs power, the line will struggle against some teams.  

 

Ideally, we should have someone on that line that can finish.  Good passer, strong on the boards, good defensive awareness.  Who does that describe?  Ferland?  Poirier?  Tkachuk?  Lazar?  Foo?  Versteeg?  Jagr?  Not enough data available to support any of them on that line.  

[MAC331]

10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

He developed a lot of chemistry with Johnny that first half season.  They were pretty darn good together.  After they put Monahan with the two, they became one of the best lines in hockey (especially March that year).  The part that seemed to disappear the next year was the laser accuracy in his shots, or even his taking shots.  

 

One thing that was different last year was that Gully tended to deploy the top line against top lines, regardless of home or road games.  No, I don't think you have to shelter them, but you should be using every advantage you have, such as sending out Johnny's line against the weakest D or 4th lines.  Power vs power, the line will struggle against some teams.  

 

Ideally, we should have someone on that line that can finish.  Good passer, strong on the boards, good defensive awareness.  Who does that describe?  Ferland?  Poirier?  Tkachuk?  Lazar?  Foo?  Versteeg?  Jagr?  Not enough data available to support any of them on that line.  

Ideally none of them yet so starting out with Ferland there is fine and if they use Lazar with Bennett, I would like to see how that progresses.

[travel_dude]

33 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Ideally none of them yet so starting out with Ferland there is fine and if they use Lazar with Bennett, I would like to see how that progresses.

 

Just to confirm, the only thing BT said was that Ferland would start camp on the top line.

[MAC331]

12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Just to confirm, the only thing BT said was that Ferland would start camp on the top line.

I don't think he even referred to camp but let's see where it all goes.

[travel_dude]

23 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't think he even referred to camp but let's see where it all goes.

This was the conversation that I was basing it on; interview with BT around the Ferland signing:

 

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

#Flames GM Brad Treliving said that Micheal Ferland will start the year with Gaudreau and Monahan: "Then, we'll see"

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

And when I say, "start the year" obviously I mean the 2017-18 #Flames training camp.

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

Treliving: “This is a summer of pushing and getting better and breaking through whatever ceilings we’ve hit in the past.”

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

Interesting stuff today from Brad Treliving on Micheal Ferland: “The next step (for Ferland) is just that — taking the next step."

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

"We’ve seen the skillset that Micheal Ferland has. It can be very special and unique … he moved around the lineup in the past couple years."

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

"For me, the goal for him is to establish himself at that high level on a consistent basis. Because we’ve seen it."

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

"We know what he’s capable of.”

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

"We think the sky is the limit for Micheal.” Also said that he has to have the "summer of his life."

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

"I've got a great deal of respect for Micheal. I love the kid. He's come so far. But you also want to push for more...He's capable of it."

[MAC331]

17 hours ago, travel_dude said:

This was the conversation that I was basing it on; interview with BT around the Ferland signing:

 

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

#Flames GM Brad Treliving said that Micheal Ferland will start the year with Gaudreau and Monahan: "Then, we'll see"

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

And when I say, "start the year" obviously I mean the 2017-18 #Flames training camp.

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

Treliving: “This is a summer of pushing and getting better and breaking through whatever ceilings we’ve hit in the past.”

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

Interesting stuff today from Brad Treliving on Micheal Ferland: “The next step (for Ferland) is just that — taking the next step."

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

"We’ve seen the skillset that Micheal Ferland has. It can be very special and unique … he moved around the lineup in the past couple years."

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

"For me, the goal for him is to establish himself at that high level on a consistent basis. Because we’ve seen it."

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

"We know what he’s capable of.”

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

"We think the sky is the limit for Micheal.” Also said that he has to have the "summer of his life."

Kristen Odland‏Verified account @Kristen_Odland  Jul 14

"I've got a great deal of respect for Micheal. I love the kid. He's come so far. But you also want to push for more...He's capable of it."

OK cool, they are providing Ferland a heck of an opportunity to play with those two. I don't see any negatives here even if it doesn't quite click Ferland learns and becomes a better player for us.

[MAC331]

This should be a camp that every player should be excited to get going for 2017/18. A lot of good new pieces for GG to work with for an improved team.

Go Flames Go

[cccsberg]

On 2017-07-18 at 0:14 PM, cross16 said:

 

I agree that elite should not be the target, that is getting ahead of ourselves and really very, very few teams have the ability to have a line full of elite players.

 

I don't think the target should be an elite player, but I also think the target should be much higher than Ferland, Brouwer, Versteeg etc. 

I think Ferland fits the role perfectly.  He can skate, can score and is tough, helping to protect the others.  I'm not sure what the obsession is with a supposed "top line" RW?  

[cross16]

3 hours ago, cccsberg said:

I think Ferland fits the role perfectly.  He can skate, can score and is tough, helping to protect the others.  I'm not sure what the obsession is with a supposed "top line" RW?  

 

Remains to be seen , but the "obsession" stems from the fact that they were not near good enough offensively 5 on 5 last season so when you return the same forward crop it's cause for concern. Your asking for a lot of development and things to go right to take a bottom 10 team offensively at 5 on 5 to the top 10 or 12 where they need to be. 

[MAC331]

3 hours ago, cccsberg said:

I think Ferland fits the role perfectly.  He can skate, can score and is tough, helping to protect the others.  I'm not sure what the obsession is with a supposed "top line" RW?  

There will always be situations that require improvement and it is the GM's job to try to find solutions. Are there better solutions than Ferland for RW with JG and Monahan, likely but for now the opportunity is his exploit. This is the problem with paper rosters and forum opinions we all want to see our own solutions. Ferland does have some of the talents required for this line, the two ingredients I think he lacks is passing awareness and experience. I would love for him to be Hudler, up sized. We will see.

[travel_dude]

36 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Remains to be seen , but the "obsession" stems from the fact that they were not near good enough offensively 5 on 5 last season so when you return the same forward crop it's cause for concern. Your asking for a lot of development and things to go right to take a bottom 10 team offensively at 5 on 5 to the top 10 or 12 where they need to be. 

 

I agree that we have done little to the forward group to impact scoring.  Big moves of the year were dumping Bouma and signing Foo.  I don't think it unreasonable though to think that Bennett can improve a bit at 5v5.  I also believe that Tkachuk will take a step forward in his goal scoring.  As well, the Johnny line was ineffective for 1/3 of the year.  If they get back to normal to start the year, that will help.   

 

Saying that, I still believe we are one top 6 player short.  Ferland could turn into a Maroon and score 30 goals.  Tkachuk could be a beast on the top line at RW.  Beyond that, I don't see top line talent ready to explode there.  We don't have it.  Jagr is about the only name out there in FA that even excites me a little.      

[MAC331]

39 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Remains to be seen , but the "obsession" stems from the fact that they were not near good enough offensively 5 on 5 last season so when you return the same forward crop it's cause for concern. Your asking for a lot of development and things to go right to take a bottom 10 team offensively at 5 on 5 to the top 10 or 12 where they need to be. 

Ferland could fill the bill for the top line but I think BT has to keep his eyes open. I believe a line of Versteeg, Backlund and Frolik could match or exceed what the 3M line achieved last season. Should a line of Tkachuk, Bennett and Lazar emerge from camp, this would be the line the team would need to break out in order to improve the most.

[stubblejumper1]

4 hours ago, cccsberg said:

I think Ferland fits the role perfectly.  He can skate, can score and is tough, helping to protect the others.  I'm not sure what the obsession is with a supposed "top line" RW?  

 

Would Ferland be considered for the RW position on any other team's first line?  No.  That is where the obsession stems from.  

[AlbertaBoy12]

54 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Remains to be seen , but the "obsession" stems from the fact that they were not near good enough offensively 5 on 5 last season so when you return the same forward crop it's cause for concern. Your asking for a lot of development and things to go right to take a bottom 10 team offensively at 5 on 5 to the top 10 or 12 where they need to be. 

The obsession should be getting bennetts line going not replacing ferland, its also a more realistic goal then finding a top line RW.

[MAC331]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

I agree that we have done little to the forward group to impact scoring.  Big moves of the year were dumping Bouma and signing Foo.  I don't think it unreasonable though to think that Bennett can improve a bit at 5v5.  I also believe that Tkachuk will take a step forward in his goal scoring.  As well, the Johnny line was ineffective for 1/3 of the year.  If they get back to normal to start the year, that will help.   

 

Saying that, I still believe we are one top 6 player short.  Ferland could turn into a Maroon and score 30 goals.  Tkachuk could be a beast on the top line at RW.  Beyond that, I don't see top line talent ready to explode there.  We don't have it.  Jagr is about the only name out there in FA that even excites me a little.      

Ferland given this opportunity could very well turn out to be this year's 30 goal Maroon playing with JG and SM. I would rather try Ferland and let him gain the experience rather than bring in Jagr. Ferland doesn't have to be a fixture on the top line in the future but can you imagine the confidence he would gain which would benefit the team for years.

[MAC331]

Just now, stubblejumper1 said:

 

Would Ferland be considered for the RW position on any other team's first line?  No.  That is where the obsession stems from.  

We don't know that for sure but there likely some he could, sure. We have that need and for now he can fill it.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Ferland given this opportunity could very well turn out to be this year's 30 goal Maroon playing with JG and SM. I would rather try Ferland and let him gain the experience rather than bring in Jagr. Ferland doesn't have to be a fixture on the top line in the future but can you imagine the confidence he would gain which would benefit the team for years.

 

It's a double-edged sword.  He could gain confidence or lose it by being relied on.  I think he needs to gain the confidence, as I see him being far too modest of his own abilities.  Jagr is an option because it lets a guy like Ferland play a role maybe better suited for him (Bennett's or Backlund's LW).  I seriously doubt that Jagr even considers coming to CGY.  

 

As much as I like the idea of Jagr coming here, I would prefer they address the lack of impact RW's through a trade.  We can always hope that Ferland or Tkachuk can take the spot to a new level.  Maybe Poirier has enough fire in his belly to show that potential.  I hope we see a real battle in camp.  

[redfire11]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

  Maybe Poirier has enough fire in his belly to show that potential.  I hope we see a real battle in camp.  

Might not be the best term to use for Poirier

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's a double-edged sword.  He could gain confidence or lose it by being relied on.  I think he needs to gain the confidence, as I see him being far too modest of his own abilities.  Jagr is an option because it lets a guy like Ferland play a role maybe better suited for him (Bennett's or Backlund's LW).  I seriously doubt that Jagr even considers coming to CGY.  

 

As much as I like the idea of Jagr coming here, I would prefer they address the lack of impact RW's through a trade.  We can always hope that Ferland or Tkachuk can take the spot to a new level.  Maybe Poirier has enough fire in his belly to show that potential.  I hope we see a real battle in camp.  

Jagr has never entered my thinking. Ferland to start the season is fine by me. Others such as Poirier, Foo or Shinkaruk may or may not get some chances to play into the season but it will take an injury or a poor performance by a regular for it to happen.

[DirtyDeeds]

On 7/20/2017 at 8:24 AM, MAC331 said:

This is an interesting point because I believe it to be true. Hudler was a 3rd line, 2nd line winger with DET and even with us until he starting being used with Monahan and then the two of them. Hudler had the experience but he also had great hockey sense of where to be at any given time on the ice. He was that 3rd threat on that line because along with his smarts he was a very good passer and shooter himself. The player I have seen some of the same traits with is Lazar. It may take some time to recognize this with Lazar because he hasn't the time in that Hudler did has he emerged but Lazar is worth watching this season. The Flames have provided him a new lease on his hockey life so let's see what he does with it. Another reason I would like to see him with Bennett not shuffled to 4th line duties.

I don't see the Lazar - Hudler comparison at all, except maybe the smile.

 

If I was forced to find the closest comparison to Hudler from a player on our roster it would be Versteeg.

[DirtyDeeds]

On 7/20/2017 at 1:37 PM, travel_dude said:

 

He developed a lot of chemistry with Johnny that first half season.  They were pretty darn good together.  After they put Monahan with the two, they became one of the best lines in hockey (especially March that year).  The part that seemed to disappear the next year was the laser accuracy in his shots, or even his taking shots.  

 

One thing that was different last year was that Gully tended to deploy the top line against top lines, regardless of home or road games.  No, I don't think you have to shelter them, but you should be using every advantage you have, such as sending out Johnny's line against the weakest D or 4th lines.  Power vs power, the line will struggle against some teams.  

 

Ideally, we should have someone on that line that can finish.  Good passer, strong on the boards, good defensive awareness.  Who does that describe?  Ferland?  Poirier?  Tkachuk?  Lazar?  Foo?  Versteeg?  Jagr?  Not enough data available to support any of them on that line.  

GG deployed the Backs line in the D zone and the Mony line in the O zone. It had little to do with top line against top line.