So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I just don't want to go from center depth to center drought.

 

But we have needs in goaltending and RD that are equally important compared to a second line Center.  It's worth taking a risk.

[Flyerfan52]

Right now Backlund is a 1/2 center @ a good price on most teams. Trading him & his 1 year now (or after the ED) would bring the best return.

2nd best is trading him as a TD rental.

Worst is lowballing him on an offer & having him request a trade. That results in: 1) 60 cents on the $ offers or 2) him playing even better so to valuable to trade if you want playoffs  but too expensive to re-sign with even more ammo to dictate $s/term so walks away to a different team.

[Flyerfan52]

3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Yeah I feel so sorry for them making the little money they do. LOL

I don't really care what they do whether they leave him and trade him at the TDL, trade him now but I wouldn't pay him top dollar to stay when I know I can cover his absence quite quickly with the talent coming on.

The $s sound really good as a stand alone figure. Subtract the agent's take, the cost of 2 homes (3 for tweener players) , taxes & the fact the average career is 5 years while even the longer careers are largely cost controlled for the 1st 8 years. Once free of that you can't blame a player for taking the highest paycheck possible. For most of them hockey is the only life they've known & the only skill they have.

If the career ends @ 30-32 the $s stop but the bills don't so the $s in the bank help as you learn to work a different job (there aren't enough management/coaching positions to accomodate all ex-players).

 

Remember Glencross took a home discount with NMC only to be asked to waive it? He regrets the $s left on the table now.

 

Putting it another way if you were now working for 60 grand & the grapevine said a competitor was going to offer you 100 & your employer countered with 70 what would you do?

*****************************************************************************

Can you really cover losing Backlund internally or do you just hope that is true? Bennett better have 1 heck of a year & Monahan stand facing the top guys on every team every game.

[AlbertaBoy12]

Well while we lose backlund we are gaining something in return, so hopefully we get a good top 4 D man, adding depth like that on D would sure help. Also Bennett has been very good defensively so I wouldnt worry to much about him, especially how many more minutes he would get if backlund wasent on the team. 

 

I get that alot of people dont want to lose backlund(myself included), but his zone starts and competition sometimes gets blown out of proportion in arguments about the player. I think adding a good top 4 dman, bennett playing more minutes and hopefully janko comes in strong, could lighten the blow of losing backlund.

 

Id rather trade him now, then lose him in free agency for nothing or try to trade him at the TDL in the midst of a playoff run.

[robrob74]

36 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

The $s sound really good as a stand alone figure. Subtract the agent's take, the cost of 2 homes (3 for tweener players) , taxes & the fact the average career is 5 years while even the longer careers are largely cost controlled for the 1st 8 years. Once free of that you can't blame a player for taking the highest paycheck possible. For most of them hockey is the only life they've known & the only skill they have.

If the career ends @ 30-32 the $s stop but the bills don't so the $s in the bank help as you learn to work a different job (there aren't enough management/coaching positions to accomodate all ex-players).

 

Remember Glencross took a home discount with NMC only to be asked to waive it? He regrets the $s left on the table now.

 

Putting it another way if you were now working for 60 grand & the grapevine said a competitor was going to offer you 100 & your employer countered with 70 what would you do?

*****************************************************************************

Can you really cover losing Backlund internally or do you just hope that is true? Bennett better have 1 heck of a year & Monahan stand facing the top guys on every team every game.

 

To be fair, it takes 20 years for me to earn $1,000,000.00

[MAC331]

40 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Well while we lose backlund we are gaining something in return, so hopefully we get a good top 4 D man, adding depth like that on D would sure help. Also Bennett has been very good defensively so I wouldnt worry to much about him, especially how many more minutes he would get if backlund wasent on the team. 

 

I get that alot of people dont want to lose backlund(myself included), but his zone starts and competition sometimes gets blown out of proportion in arguments about the player. I think adding a good top 4 dman, bennett playing more minutes and hopefully janko comes in strong, could lighten the blow of losing backlund.

 

Id rather trade him now, then lose him in free agency for nothing or try to trade him at the TDL in the midst of a playoff run.

What do you think we would get for 1 year of Backlund ? Could we get Pesce RHSD from Carolina ? he would be my target.

[cross16]

Quick to forget that under Hartley, Monahan was his matchup centre. Hartley went power on power, Gulutzan is the one who really put Backlund into the defensive role he was in last season. Monahan has his best season while drawing the toughest competition of any Flames centre so no reason to believe he couldn't do it again. 

 

 

[AlbertaBoy12]

32 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

What do you think we would get for 1 year of Backlund ? Could we get Pesce RHSD from Carolina ? he would be my target.

id love to get pesce from carolina, but I think cross pointed out that might be a bit out of reach for us with backlund. Honestly would it be that dissapointing to get someone like faulk or dumba, not really. I think we would be more then good with those 2 as examples.

 

As cross just pointed out mony drew the toughest competition under BH, and we just watched nasville face off against pittsbugh with what would probably be a couple #3 centers in our organization, and while they didnt win they did do well. Its important to have someone to take the tough competition, but this team would be fine with backlund gone and say justin faulk in our top 4. 

 

Everyone would adjust, and as I said we might see alot more from bennett. I think if janko comes into camp ready, a 3rd line of him with frolik/ferland could be very strong. A strong top 4 is just as good, as a good center in my opinion.

[MAC331]

38 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

id love to get pesce from carolina, but I think cross pointed out that might be a bit out of reach for us with backlund. Honestly would it be that dissapointing to get someone like faulk or dumba, not really. I think we would be more then good with those 2 as examples.

 

As cross just pointed out mony drew the toughest competition under BH, and we just watched nasville face off against pittsbugh with what would probably be a couple #3 centers in our organization, and while they didnt win they did do well. Its important to have someone to take the tough competition, but this team would be fine with backlund gone and say justin faulk in our top 4. 

 

Everyone would adjust, and as I said we might see alot more from bennett. I think if janko comes into camp ready, a 3rd line of him with frolik/ferland could be very strong. A strong top 4 is just as good, as a good center in my opinion.

Let's try for a stretch if we are giving up one of our best players, Faulk doesn't do it for me with Brodie. I would rather someone stronger defensively with some offense. Dumba would be a good add but not sure I want to give them Backlund. Speaking of NAS I was thinking that Colton Sisson would make a great RW on our top line. Dreaming

[MAC331]

12 hours ago, cross16 said:

Quick to forget that under Hartley, Monahan was his matchup centre. Hartley went power on power, Gulutzan is the one who really put Backlund into the defensive role he was in last season. Monahan has his best season while drawing the toughest competition of any Flames centre so no reason to believe he couldn't do it again. 

 

 

I think many fail to take into account what another season of experience does for a player, especially younger ones. Also all it takes sometimes is a personal challenge, what if Bennett comes in with a "well I will show you" attitude next season. This is what I will be looking for because if he succeeds we will forget Backlund soon enough.

[travel_dude]

24 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think many fail to take into account what another season of experience does for a player, especially younger ones. Also all it takes sometimes is a personal challenge, what if Bennett comes in with a "well I will show you" attitude next season. This is what I will be looking for because if he succeeds we will forget Backlund soon enough.

 

If that is also the expectation from BT, and the early results seem to point to it, then he would be advised to only sign Backlund to a short-term deal or even wait till mid-season.  I have no issue with Backlund, and would prefer to trade him from a position of strength.  In other words, the trade would not damage our overall team game.

[MAC331]

34 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If that is also the expectation from BT, and the early results seem to point to it, then he would be advised to only sign Backlund to a short-term deal or even wait till mid-season.  I have no issue with Backlund, and would prefer to trade him from a position of strength.  In other words, the trade would not damage our overall team game.

I agree that BT shouldn't be afraid to trade Backlund for the right deal, money aside. There is a lot that is going on over the next two weeks and I think into July would be the time for BT to address the Backlund situation if there is one. BT could be of the opinion to take Backlund into the season and go from there. I really expect the main focus to be on our net.

[Flyerfan52]

6 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I think many fail to take into account what another season of experience does for a player, especially younger ones. Also all it takes sometimes is a personal challenge, what if Bennett comes in with a "well I will show you" attitude next season. This is what I will be looking for because if he succeeds we will forget Backlund soon enough.

I hope he does & that both high lighted come true.

But that if is huge. As big as us expecting him to be the 1 or 2 C by now like we hoped when he was still there @ #4 OA 3 years ago.

[MAC331]

9 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

I hope he does & that both high lighted come true.

But that if is huge. As big as us expecting him to be the 1 or 2 C by now like we hoped when he was still there @ #4 OA 3 years ago.

I think we see BT carry this entire situation into the season with Backlund still here. We all know the best trade value is now but the process has been to have vets around to support the young core and Backlund does this. He was maybe hoping Brouwer would carry some of that influence and maybe he has so only BT is in the know of where this all stands. I feel a TDL deal down the line.

[AlbertaBoy12]

7 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I think many fail to take into account what another season of experience does for a player, especially younger ones. Also all it takes sometimes is a personal challenge, what if Bennett comes in with a "well I will show you" attitude next season. This is what I will be looking for because if he succeeds we will forget Backlund soon enough.

sounds like bennett has that attitude, considering BT said when he talked to him about the ovi trade, he was like well you have to think about it im worth just the same as him basically. I think bennett is on the cusp of being something big, and im interested to see what he comes into camp like.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

sounds like bennett has that attitude, considering BT said when he talked to him about the ovi trade, he was like well you have to think about it im worth just the same as him basically. I think bennett is on the cusp of being something big, and im interested to see what he comes into camp like.

 

My fear with Bennett is that he has no track record of ever making his wingers better players.  In comparison, many wingers have had career years playing with Backlund.  From Jamie Benn in Juniors to David Jones, Bouma, Frolik, Tkachuk, etc. I think that's a sign of a good center.

 

Bennett has always been a "give me the puck and I'll do it all" kind of player.

[AlbertaBoy12]

10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

My fear with Bennett is that he has no track record of ever making his wingers better players.  In comparison, many wingers have had career years playing with Backlund.  From Jamie Benn in Juniors to David Jones, Bouma, Frolik, Tkachuk, etc. I think that's a sign of a good center.

 

Bennett has always been a "give me the puck and I'll do it all" kind of player.

Well I mean he did play with lawson crouse a bit didnt he? I would argue that the chances of crouse becoming a top 6 winger in the NHL arent great, so bennett might have made him look good. 

 

But in all honesty I have no clue who his wingers were in junior, but at the same time in the NHL the first year he played on the wing and in his second season, I thought he made versteeg, chiasson, tkachuk(in limited showing) look good.Obviously he didnt help brouwer, but there was no helping that sinking ship.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Well I mean he did play with lawson crouse a bit didnt he? I would argue that the chances of crouse becoming a top 6 winger in the NHL arent great, so bennett might have made him look good. 

 

But in all honesty I have no clue who his wingers were in junior, but at the same time in the NHL the first year he played on the wing and in his second season, I thought he made versteeg, chiasson, tkachuk(in limited showing) look good.Obviously he didnt help brouwer, but there was no helping that sinking ship.

There is some truth I what People's says about Bennett but you also have to take into account there is room for some positive change to distribute the puck as a C.

[cross16]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

My fear with Bennett is that he has no track record of ever making his wingers better players.  In comparison, many wingers have had career years playing with Backlund.  From Jamie Benn in Juniors to David Jones, Bouma, Frolik, Tkachuk, etc. I think that's a sign of a good center.

 

Bennett has always been a "give me the puck and I'll do it all" kind of player.

 

I don't want to make it seem like i'm underrating or being negative towards Backlund, but this isn't very accurate thinking. 

 

Backlund didn't play much with Benn in juniors. Benn and Colin Long were the combo in Kelowna and Backlund only played 20 regular season games there (came over after the WJC) and at the time those 2(Long and Benn) were already pacing the team offensively. Backlund and Benn played powerplay together but unless i've lost my memory Backlund was predominantly a 2nd line center in Kelowna and he certainly did not aid in Benn's success. Benn was already tearing it up.

Really the only player who career year with Backs is Bouma. Jones and Frolik already had success before the yplayed with Backlund, and in Frolik's case he is putting up identical numbers, in terms of both analytics and raw, that he did before he got here. Backs really hasn't impacted Frolik's game at all really. You could maybe give Backs credit for Tkachuk but the numbers also suggrest that Tkachuk is equally as good at supporting linemates as Backs, and let's also remember the guy was the number 6 pick so it's not like he's propping up a scrub like Bennett was asked to do. again, i'm not putting down Backs I just think this idea that he makes everyone around him better isn't accurate, he plays will really good players. to be fair again, I think Backs is an excellent hockey player, I just think the narrative that he makes others better has stuck around from the Bouma days, but it really isn't true. not to mention if you look at osme players who Bennett played with in Junior, their numbers spike the year they played with Bennett so not sure why its fair to say he has never made others around him better, when if you compare them at the same age he actually did it more than Backlund did.Henri Ikonen was over a PPG player with Bennett and has done literally nothing without him. Roland McKeowan (D) career year came with Bennett there as well.

 

this is where its hard not to get frustrated by people (In general, not you specifically Peeps) and how they view Bennett, even Monahan, in comparison to Backlund. 2-3 years ago all the talk with Backlund was how he was never going to be a number 1 center, he might be an ok-good 3rd line center but probably not good enough offensively, he wasn't a great 1st round pick, the Flames should explore a trade and we need to do better. Now we have 2 players who at a younger age are more accomplished than Backs was,at similar ages, and the narrative has changed to how good Backs is and how good he's always been and that somehow that allows us to look at trading Mony or Bennett. 

[cross16]

 

[The_People1]

12 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't want to make it seem like i'm underrating or being negative towards Backlund, but this isn't very accurate thinking. 

 

Backlund didn't play much with Benn in juniors. Benn and Colin Long were the combo in Kelowna and Backlund only played 20 regular season games there (came over after the WJC) and at the time those 2(Long and Benn) were already pacing the team offensively. Backlund and Benn played powerplay together but unless i've lost my memory Backlund was predominantly a 2nd line center in Kelowna and he certainly did not aid in Benn's success. Benn was already tearing it up.

Really the only player who career year with Backs is Bouma. Jones and Frolik already had success before the yplayed with Backlund, and in Frolik's case he is putting up identical numbers, in terms of both analytics and raw, that he did before he got here. Backs really hasn't impacted Frolik's game at all really. You could maybe give Backs credit for Tkachuk but the numbers also suggrest that Tkachuk is equally as good at supporting linemates as Backs, and let's also remember the guy was the number 6 pick so it's not like he's propping up a scrub like Bennett was asked to do. again, i'm not putting down Backs I just think this idea that he makes everyone around him better isn't accurate, he plays will really good players. to be fair again, I think Backs is an excellent hockey player, I just think the narrative that he makes others better has stuck around from the Bouma days, but it really isn't true. not to mention if you look at osme players who Bennett played with in Junior, their numbers spike the year they played with Bennett so not sure why its fair to say he has never made others around him better, when if you compare them at the same age he actually did it more than Backlund did.Henri Ikonen was over a PPG player with Bennett and has done literally nothing without him. Roland McKeowan (D) career year came with Bennett there as well.

 

this is where its hard not to get frustrated by people (In general, not you specifically Peeps) and how they view Bennett, even Monahan, in comparison to Backlund. 2-3 years ago all the talk with Backlund was how he was never going to be a number 1 center, he might be an ok-good 3rd line center but probably not good enough offensively, he wasn't a great 1st round pick, the Flames should explore a trade and we need to do better. Now we have 2 players who at a younger age are more accomplished than Backs was,at similar ages, and the narrative has changed to how good Backs is and how good he's always been and that somehow that allows us to look at trading Mony or Bennett. 

 

Don't get me wrong, my first choice is to trade Backlund before Bennett.  Just saying, Bennett has some serious offensive deficiencies.  He can still become a solid second line two way player.  

[MAC331]

12 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't want to make it seem like i'm underrating or being negative towards Backlund, but this isn't very accurate thinking. 

 

Backlund didn't play much with Benn in juniors. Benn and Colin Long were the combo in Kelowna and Backlund only played 20 regular season games there (came over after the WJC) and at the time those 2(Long and Benn) were already pacing the team offensively. Backlund and Benn played powerplay together but unless i've lost my memory Backlund was predominantly a 2nd line center in Kelowna and he certainly did not aid in Benn's success. Benn was already tearing it up.

Really the only player who career year with Backs is Bouma. Jones and Frolik already had success before the yplayed with Backlund, and in Frolik's case he is putting up identical numbers, in terms of both analytics and raw, that he did before he got here. Backs really hasn't impacted Frolik's game at all really. You could maybe give Backs credit for Tkachuk but the numbers also suggrest that Tkachuk is equally as good at supporting linemates as Backs, and let's also remember the guy was the number 6 pick so it's not like he's propping up a scrub like Bennett was asked to do. again, i'm not putting down Backs I just think this idea that he makes everyone around him better isn't accurate, he plays will really good players. to be fair again, I think Backs is an excellent hockey player, I just think the narrative that he makes others better has stuck around from the Bouma days, but it really isn't true. not to mention if you look at osme players who Bennett played with in Junior, their numbers spike the year they played with Bennett so not sure why its fair to say he has never made others around him better, when if you compare them at the same age he actually did it more than Backlund did.Henri Ikonen was over a PPG player with Bennett and has done literally nothing without him. Roland McKeowan (D) career year came with Bennett there as well.

 

this is where its hard not to get frustrated by people (In general, not you specifically Peeps) and how they view Bennett, even Monahan, in comparison to Backlund. 2-3 years ago all the talk with Backlund was how he was never going to be a number 1 center, he might be an ok-good 3rd line center but probably not good enough offensively, he wasn't a great 1st round pick, the Flames should explore a trade and we need to do better. Now we have 2 players who at a younger age are more accomplished than Backs was,at similar ages, and the narrative has changed to how good Backs is and how good he's always been and that somehow that allows us to look at trading Mony or Bennett. 

Very good narrative cross which begs the question why do many including yourself think Backlund warrants a 6M plus contract. He has emerged into a very good overall player who's real strengths are defensive in nature, good puck possession and can score 15 to 20 goals. I also agree that his linemates have afforded him the offensive opportunities as much as he has the other way around.

[cross16]

23 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Very good narrative cross which begs the question why do many including yourself think Backlund warrants a 6M plus contract. He has emerged into a very good overall player who's real strengths are defensive in nature, good puck possession and can score 15 to 20 goals. I also agree that his linemates have afforded him the offensive opportunities as much as he has the other way around.

 

So just to be very clear on something I think Backlund is a very good hockey player. In no way was I suggesting that Backlund's success is a by product of players he plays with. I don't agree that Backlund makes others around him better, but that is not a slight. IMO there are very few centers in the league that make players around them better and that skill set is usually what separates the elite talent from the very good.

 

The market is what tells me Backs is heading towards 6 mill or more. That's not my opinion, that's what market comps show. 

 

 

[AlbertaBoy12]

Im starting to wonder if anyone thinks that we are in on spencer foo he was at our development camp last summer and the last word I heard was that several teams were in on him and he was going to make his decision around the entry draft. I heard edmonton was a big contender, but unless edmonton can trade eberle I think we have more to offer in our top 9.

 

Also on that note apparantly chuck fletcher in minny has recieved quality offers on dumba and brodin, i wonder if BT has made any offers. I cant be the only one whos hoping that maybe we could make a trade for someone like dumba, and adding spencer foo to our top 9 would be huge. 

[cross16]

19 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Also on that note apparantly chuck fletcher in minny has recieved quality offers on dumba and brodin, i wonder if BT has made any offers. I cant be the only one whos hoping that maybe we could make a trade for someone like dumba, and adding spencer foo to our top 9 would be huge. 

 

I think its highly unlikely he did. You'd have to move someone like Bennett, Backlund or Froilk for it to make sense (otherwise you'd lose them for nothing in the expansion draft) and I don't think that makes the team better.  The only reason those guys are maybe available is the expansion draft so I don't think its very probably they would be Flames.