The Rebuild over?

[DirtyDeeds]

Assuming that Feaster started the rebuild with the trade of Iggy and JBo then are we finished the rebuild?

 

We are spending at or near cap max.. Is this a sign we are pretty much done?

We have a nice young group of core players.. Is this the sign the rebuild is over?

 

Give your thoughts go on this subject here.

[MAC331]

Just now, DirtyDeeds said:

Assuming that Feaster started the rebuild with the trade of Iggy and JBo then are we finished the rebuild?

 

We are spending at or near cap max.. Is this a sign we are pretty much done?

We have a nice young group of core players.. Is this the sign the rebuild is over?

 

Give your thoughts go on this subject here.

I think it fair to say the rebuild is done however we are still building the team. Parts of the core still need to gain some experience and we could stand to upgrade a few positions yet.

[redfire11]

Under a salary cap league the rebuild will never finish.

[MAC331]

51 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

Under a salary cap league the rebuild will never finish.

Depends on  your definition of rebuild.

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Assuming that Feaster started the rebuild with the trade of Iggy and JBo then are we finished the rebuild?

 

We are spending at or near cap max.. Is this a sign we are pretty much done?

We have a nice young group of core players.. Is this the sign the rebuild is over?

 

Give your thoughts go on this subject here.

Tough question.

I'd have to say that the rebuild isn't done until we start seeing prospects closer to taking seats.

We have Bennett, Ferland and Jokipakka RFA next year, realistically Tkachuk back for his 2nd year in jr on one of the best franchises in the C.

With Wideman, Engelland, goalies to sort out, I'd like another yr of calling it a rebuild for $200 Alex!

I believe there is still about half a team to flesh out, so I'd say we're still in a rebuild.

But I don't mean it in a negative sense, just that we're not quite where we want to be for another year. Whose the goalie next yr for example.

We have too many positions that just aren't settled yet, so we're still in flux, imho.

[kehatch]

This is always a contentious question. Some consider a rebuild to be a period of time to be terrible, stockpile draft picks, and do your best to lose. Some consider a rebuild to be ongoing. 

 

For me we are still a very young team with holes that need to be addressed. I don't really have any team expectations this year except to see progress from our young guys. I hope we make the playoffs , but if we draft high so be it. 

 

Next year will be a transition year. Bennett enters year three, Tkachuk might be a factor, and we will see most of the bad contracts gone. 

 

I think next summer we see the organization on a position to focus on winning. My appetite to do things like trade some picks or prospects for immediate help will be higher and I will be looking for wins. To me that is when the rebuild is over. 

[MAC331]

9 hours ago, kehatch said:

This is always a contentious question. Some consider a rebuild to be a period of time to be terrible, stockpile draft picks, and do your best to lose. Some consider a rebuild to be ongoing. 

 

For me we are still a very young team with holes that need to be addressed. I don't really have any team expectations this year except to see progress from our young guys. I hope we make the playoffs , but if we draft high so be it. 

 

Next year will be a transition year. Bennett enters year three, Tkachuk might be a factor, and we will see most of the bad contracts gone. 

 

I think next summer we see the organization on a position to focus on winning. My appetite to do things like trade some picks or prospects for immediate help will be higher and I will be looking for wins. To me that is when the rebuild is over. 

I look at any team in stages of development, rebuild for me is stripping a team down from a previous effort to build a winning team to starting over. We started over once the Iginla era ended here. The work that has taken place to establish a new core has taken place, now this team must develop the maturity and experience in order to be a winning team. Roster adjustment is a fact of life for all NHL teams in the cap environment so there will be continuous player movement. Adding the "right" pieces to compliment your core will be the enhancement in any attempt to have a consistent winning team.

[redfire11]

Rebuild:

Webster : to make important improvements or changes in (something)

[MAC331]

29 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

Rebuild:

Webster : to make important improvements or changes in (something)

Then according to Webster all teams are constantly rebuilding. Maybe we should just quit trying to define "rebuild".

[cross16]

This is going to be a tough question to answer but as Kehatch said everyone defines this differently. 

 

I define rebuild as changing your core. The goal of any successfull franchise is to develop a core and build around that core, so when you start making changes to that then IMO you are rebuilding. The flames have been done with that stage for a while now and IMO the last 2 years have been building, so yes IMO the rebuild is done. Doesn't mean they are not still looking to add and doesnt' mean they are ready to contend but they are dont trying to ship out core assets and find core pieces. 

[Flyerfan52]

It's not over. We need upgrades everywhere.

We have Monahan, Gaudreau & hopefully soon Bennett up front with some good complimentary players like Frolik & Brower. The rest leave me luke warm.

On D we have Gio (aging so will need to be replaced in the next few years), Brodie & D Hamilton as a top 3 so decent. Outside of training the Gio replacement a better #4 is a need.

I'm not that sold on Elliott/Johnson as a winning tandem in goal.

 

We don't have a bad roster but I have less confidence in our pipeline than some. I don't see us as a sewer team but a top 10 pick wouldn't surprise me. You can still find good complimentary forwards there & drafting the best Ds or goalies is a crap shoot as they come from all different rounds.

1 thing that might speed up the build is that teams will be ready to dump good players for little rather than lose them for nothing in the LV draft. I see it as we only have 4/5 forwards, 2 D (yes, I'd expose Gio) & 0 goalies we need to keep. So if BT got an offer of an almost ready for prime time player in a system known for development for a 3rd/4th & 1 of our 3rd year guys to expose instead go for it. Also see what shakes out in the goalie market. Along with Elliott, Johnson there will likely be Bishop available as UFA with others available via trade.

 

We're not a contender yet so the off-ice things will be as interesting as on-ice.

[CheersMan]

1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

It's not over. We need upgrades everywhere.

We have Monahan, Gaudreau & hopefully soon Bennett up front with some good complimentary players like Frolik & Brower. The rest leave me luke warm.

On D we have Gio (aging so will need to be replaced in the next few years), Brodie & D Hamilton as a top 3 so decent. Outside of training the Gio replacement a better #4 is a need.

I'm not that sold on Elliott/Johnson as a winning tandem in goal.

 

We don't have a bad roster but I have less confidence in our pipeline than some. I don't see us as a sewer team but a top 10 pick wouldn't surprise me. You can still find good complimentary forwards there & drafting the best Ds or goalies is a crap shoot as they come from all different rounds.

1 thing that might speed up the build is that teams will be ready to dump good players for little rather than lose them for nothing in the LV draft. I see it as we only have 4/5 forwards, 2 D (yes, I'd expose Gio) & 0 goalies we need to keep. So if BT got an offer of an almost ready for prime time player in a system known for development for a 3rd/4th & 1 of our 3rd year guys to expose instead go for it. Also see what shakes out in the goalie market. Along with Elliott, Johnson there will likely be Bishop available as UFA with others available via trade.

 

We're not a contender yet so the off-ice things will be as interesting as on-ice.

 

Pardon?  You would expose Gio to trade or to the expansion draft?  If you meant the expansion draft then that makes absolutely no sense. 

[conundrumed]

56 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

 

Pardon?  You would expose Gio to trade or to the expansion draft?  If you meant the expansion draft then that makes absolutely no sense. 

I think he meant the expansion draft.

Although I don't currently agree, at his salary and age it's a discussion worth having.

But I don't see losing a top Dman in the league for nothing as a great idea.

It's just discussion after all.

[tmac70]

3 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

It's not over. We need upgrades everywhere.

We have Monahan, Gaudreau & hopefully soon Bennett up front with some good complimentary players like Frolik & Brower. The rest leave me luke warm.

On D we have Gio (aging so will need to be replaced in the next few years), Brodie & D Hamilton as a top 3 so decent. Outside of training the Gio replacement a better #4 is a need.

I'm not that sold on Elliott/Johnson as a winning tandem in goal.

 

We don't have a bad roster but I have less confidence in our pipeline than some. I don't see us as a sewer team but a top 10 pick wouldn't surprise me. You can still find good complimentary forwards there & drafting the best Ds or goalies is a crap shoot as they come from all different rounds.

1 thing that might speed up the build is that teams will be ready to dump good players for little rather than lose them for nothing in the LV draft. I see it as we only have 4/5 forwards, 2 D (yes, I'd expose Gio) & 0 goalies we need to keep. So if BT got an offer of an almost ready for prime time player in a system known for development for a 3rd/4th & 1 of our 3rd year guys to expose instead go for it. Also see what shakes out in the goalie market. Along with Elliott, Johnson there will likely be Bishop available as UFA with others available via trade.

 

We're not a contender yet so the off-ice things will be as interesting as on-ice.

I agree with most. I would most definitely  look at trading GIo and mentioned so numerous times, not sure I expose him and get nothing in return. Our goalies have looked better in the past few games but so has the team and d coverage in front. You are correct we are not a contender as of yet. I believe we are 2 dman and 2 top 6 forwards away. I believe trading GIo could provide us the top 6 RW we need.

[JTech780]

I think outside of goaltending our core is set for the next 4-6 years (Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Tkachuk, Giordano, Brodie, Hamilton). If this was a house we have our foundation, walls and roof in place. Now we just need some long term windows and doors to keep everything out (goaltending), throw on some trim, and siding (roll players) and we have a house that is ready to compete. It just needs some experience.

 

That being said you are never done working on a house, just like you are never done trying to improve a roster.

[JTech780]

3 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

I agree with most. I would most definitely  look at trading GIo and mentioned so numerous times, not sure I expose him and get nothing in return. Our goalies have looked better in the past few games but so has the team and d coverage in front. You are correct we are not a contender as of yet. I believe we are 2 dman and 2 top 6 forwards away. I believe trading GIo could provide us the top 6 RW we need.

 

Trading Gio for a top 6 RW fills one hole but creates a much bigger hole on the back end. Regardless of who we got in that trade, straight that is a backwards move IMO.

[conundrumed]

19 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I think outside of goaltending our core is set for the next 4-6 years (Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Tkachuk, Giordano, Brodie, Hamilton). If this was a house we have our foundation, walls and roof in place. Now we just need some long term windows and doors to keep everything out (goaltending), throw on some trim, and siding (roll players) and we have a house that is ready to compete. It just needs some experience.

 

That being said you are never done working on a house, just like you are never done trying to improve a roster.

A house isn't a home until you're hanging pictures and filling it with emotion.

Then it's a castle.

Until then, it's just a house!

Love the analogy!

 

Edit

And nobody, but nobody, comes into my house and kicks my dog lol.

[cross16]

Exposing Gio would be a pretty horrible idea. Trading him is one thing and sure dicuss that but letting a top pairing dman walk for free makes no sense. Especially considering the Flames have no other dman that requires protecting and even if they acquired one you would be better off protecting 4 dman and 4 forwards and losing someone like Frolik/Brouwer then you would letting Gio walk for free. He would get claimed for sure.

 

The Flames are getting there and I think are closer than most people think. Bennett appears to be ready to break out and if he does I think this team could contend as early as next year. The only external piece I think is really necessary is another top 4 dman becuae no one on the farm is going to be ready for that role next year so that will be something they need to add but luckilly they will have the cap space to do it.  

[Flyerfan52]

Exposing Gio would hinge on who we acquire in trades during the season as some of those others almost ready for prime time I mention are bound to be defense. When the roster is rounded out via trade Gio might well be expendable (teams trading for him are also looking @ exposing 1 of their own D after so would consider that).

I like him & the back story of his development but if trading exposing him (to save current talent & what we pick up) is needed we should do it. I'm not talking about using a spot on a maybe but rather someone we see as part of the long term core.

I wouldn't give him away with no return if possible but am looking @ possible logistics.

[jjgallow]

22 hours ago, kehatch said:

This is always a contentious question. Some consider a rebuild to be a period of time to be terrible, stockpile draft picks, and do your best to lose. Some consider a rebuild to be ongoing. 

 

For me we are still a very young team with holes that need to be addressed. I don't really have any team expectations this year except to see progress from our young guys. I hope we make the playoffs , but if we draft high so be it. 

 

Next year will be a transition year. Bennett enters year three, Tkachuk might be a factor, and we will see most of the bad contracts gone. 

 

I think next summer we see the organization on a position to focus on winning. My appetite to do things like trade some picks or prospects for immediate help will be higher and I will be looking for wins. To me that is when the rebuild is over. 

 

This, exactly.   I also agree with much of what FF said, except exposing Gio.   Players who can be traded for value should not be exposed, and he can be.

 

But the fact that it's even up for suggestion, means that we may have already held on to long to him.   Maybe because of the NTC, maybe because that's just what we do.  Either way, it was under BT's watch so hopefully he has a master plan there.

 

More importantly....Can we even expose Giordano???  I thought no NTCs allowed?

[tmac70]

7 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

Trading Gio for a top 6 RW fills one hole but creates a much bigger hole on the back end. Regardless of who we got in that trade, straight that is a backwards move IMO.

We have already proven we can still be competitive without Gio, Brodie not so much. Not sure it leaves as large a hole as you think.

[CheersMan]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

We have already proven we can still be competitive without Gio, Brodie not so much. Not sure it leaves as large a hole as you think.

 

I believe you are referring to the Gio bicep injury.  He ended up missing the last 20 games of a season, a season where the entire defense was playing amazingly, thanks to Hartley’s system (Jack Adams year).  Although injured, Gio was still in the room leading this team the best he could every day.  Flames squeaked into the playoffs on the backs of d-pairings Russell-Wideman and Brodie-Engelland.  Russell is gone, Wideman and Engelland are playing out their final year (or less), that leaves Brodie and an unproven Hamilton.  To think the Flames could carry on minus 3 of the 4 dmen which brought the success you are referring to is slim to none, not to mention that Gio plays the hardest defensive minutes every night for this team while contributing offensively as well.  If someone can show me a return in exchange for Gio that improves this team then great, otherwise this talk of subtracting him is non-sense.  

[JTech780]

11 hours ago, tmac70 said:

We have already proven we can still be competitive without Gio, Brodie not so much. Not sure it leaves as large a hole as you think.

 

Who on this team can fill the 25mins a night against top competition if Giordano is gone? 

 

Were we really competitive? We beat Vancouver in round 1, which was awesome, but Vancouver was terrible and we still barely squeaked out a win on that series. Se got manhandled by Anaheim in the round 2.

 

I think you are overstating our success without Giordano.

 

I get the idea of trading him and it makes sense to a point, but there has to be a plan to replace him. If we are trading him it should be to bring in a younger defenseman who can play 20+mins/night. 

[MAC331]

6 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Who on this team can fill the 25mins a night against top competition if Giordano is gone? 

 

Were we really competitive? We beat Vancouver in round 1, which was awesome, but Vancouver was terrible and we still barely squeaked out a win on that series. Se got manhandled by Anaheim in the round 2.

 

I think you are overstating our success without Giordano.

 

I get the idea of trading him and it makes sense to a point, but there has to be a plan to replace him. If we are trading him it should be to bring in a younger defenseman who can play 20+mins/night. 

I would suggest we check in 2 years from now to start the trade Giordano comments, he isn't going anywhere soon.

[cross16]

13 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

 

More importantly....Can we even expose Giordano???  I thought no NTCs allowed?

 

They can. Only NMC have to be protected.