Glen Gulutzan-16th Flames Coach

[MAC331]

10 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

This year 11 games so far, 12 by month end.

Last year 10 games for month.

Year before 12 games.

Year before 12 games

Year before 13 games.

 

Every year there seems to be some thing that isn't working.

This year, no offense and lack of 5v5 scoring, recently dead PP and weak PK.

Last year, no goaltending early, and lack of Johnny/Mony early on.  Playoffs

Year before, bad goaltending, Brodie out. No playoffs.

Year before, slow start by Johnny.  Playoffs.

 

 

What's your point ?

[Cowtownguy]

It is difficult to intelligently assess a coach. Ice hockey coaches are constrained by GMs. GG cannot very well just sit Stajan and Brouwer for weeks on end when they suck because it reflects poorly upon the choices of the GM. Treliving would be choked if GG sat Brouwer too long given the price Treliving paid for him. As well, it is difficult to know if the coach is saying and teaching the right things, but the players simply do not execute in games. And NHL coaches do not have the same kind of leverage over players like they used to. "Iron" Mike Keenan was known for calling players up at 5:30am in the morning for a bag skate, and if they did not show, they did not play. That power no longer exists. Same thing in Russia. Soviet coaches used to threaten to send players to Vladivostok or worse (i.e. Edmonton ). Ergo, we have the communicators like GG.

 

GG is a very articulate person. Frankly, I think that he should ditch the NHL and run for MP. I am not sure how effective he is as a coach. It is not working for some reason. He talks about possession, clearly is teaching breakouts and ways to enter the zone effectively (you can see that in games). So, why is it not really working? Quarterbacks in the NFL used to have to memorize dozens (if not more) of plays from coaching play books before they had alternative ways to communicate. Heck, they even had to learn how to communicate with the coach while on the field. So, why is it so hard to coach this team? Do they not understand what GG is teaching them? It looks like they have the speed, the IQ, and the size.

 

There is plenty of time to develop players and improve our fortunes. We did it last year relatively late in the season. I just don't know why it always seems to be an uphill battle. I do not understand many of the player selections GG makes at times. Stajan and Brouwer are not safe bets in serious situations. I don't get the blendered lines either. At times, he also seems to congratulate the team for a hard effort when they are not playing well. I doubt him at times.

 

At this point, GG has been given the time to put forth a solid team. It seems to me that if we are struggling in January, he needs to be sent to Edmonton.

[stubblejumper1]

I have been harping on Brouwer, but Sitting in the stands yesterday I came to the conclusion he is not being utilized properly.  Brouwer is a fourth liner being put out on the the first unit of the powerplay and is then criticized when he, predictably, doesn’t score.  What is Brouwer supposed to do?  Ask to be taken off the PP?  Apologize for fleecing the Flames at the negotiating table?

 

Obviously, the coaches have to take some of the blame.  Brouwer should not be out on the powerplay on a consistent basis.  

 

The GM/ownership have to take the rest of the blame for nor providing the coaches with a viable option for a first line RW. 

 

So...while the coaching is not perfect (especially when it comes to Special teams), they are working with limited resources.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cccsberg]

On 2017-10-26 at 11:31 AM, redfire11 said:

1) starting and playing lines that force your opponent to react

2) quick line changes (this has been effective with under skilled teams like Van and Njd)

3) thinking a move or 2 ahead (heck I could beat GG in a game of chess)

4) not try and force something that is NOT working (Versteeg and Brouwer on the PP)

5) use your time out when things are consistently going sideways or backwards.

6) maybe become a little involved with your players behind the bench (instead of standing there like your at a funeral) show some energy/excitement maybe it will rub off on the players.

7)  starting the best players every night

8)  shortening the bench to the best players in key situations

9)  making the players accountable through benching, etc

10) demonstrate the ability to game-plan effectively for different teams

11) respond in-game when different tactics are needed

12) be more of a motivator than a teacher

13) develop systems that maximize the talents of the players he has

[travel_dude]

6 hours ago, cccsberg said:

7)  starting the best players every night

8)  shortening the bench to the best players in key situations

9)  making the players accountable through benching, etc

10) demonstrate the ability to game-plan effectively for different teams

11) respond in-game when different tactics are needed

12) be more of a motivator than a teacher

13) develop systems that maximize the talents of the players he has

 

I would say that you just don't play those that can't play under the systems you use.  They found a balance last year after the Ottawa game.  Somehow we are back to the pre-Ottawa struggles again this year.

[redfire11]

7 hours ago, cccsberg said:

10) demonstrate the ability to game-plan effectively for different teams

 

This is SO important on so many levels. I am not convinced the management (coach and assistant coaches) warrant this important enough to properly implement. Even if we were to adjust our PK and PP every game to exploit opponents strengths and weaknesses in these areas I could see improvement. But ultimately it comes down to the all important line matching.

[MAC331]

15 hours ago, stubblejumper1 said:

I have been harping on Brouwer, but Sitting in the stands yesterday I came to the conclusion he is not being utilized properly.  Brouwer is a fourth liner being put out on the the first unit of the powerplay and is then criticized when he, predictably, doesn’t score.  What is Brouwer supposed to do?  Ask to be taken off the PP?  Apologize for fleecing the Flames at the negotiating table?

 

Obviously, the coaches have to take some of the blame.  Brouwer should not be out on the powerplay on a consistent basis.  

 

The GM/ownership have to take the rest of the blame for nor providing the coaches with a viable option for a first line RW. 

 

So...while the coaching is not perfect (especially when it comes to Special teams), they are working with limited resources.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Listen I wouldn't use Brouwer on the PP either but if all you want is a big body screening the goalie so the real shooters can do the scoring he fills the bill. The problems we have been having on both our PP units does not rest on Brouwer (I actually think he does his part well). To many passes, to many lame passes and shooting into opposing players legs is being done by the very players we need to be smarter.

I also call BS on the "limited" resources comment, the talent is here to do the job. One player, one position does not correct the lack of execution occurring.

[MAC331]

8 hours ago, cccsberg said:

7)  starting the best players every night

8)  shortening the bench to the best players in key situations

9)  making the players accountable through benching, etc

10) demonstrate the ability to game-plan effectively for different teams

11) respond in-game when different tactics are needed

12) be more of a motivator than a teacher

13) develop systems that maximize the talents of the players he has

I would answer you this way, we need to execute our own systems first before you divert your attention to other parts of your list. You make it sound like nothing is being done right and that just isn't the case.

[JTech780]

So far we are 11th in possession 50.85, 4th in 5v5 save% .941, but 27th 5v5 shooting% 6.3.

 

5v5 we are playing well, we just don't have enough finishers.

 

Where we are getting killed is on special teams. We are 21st on the PP 15% and 27th in the PK 76.6%.

 

We have been better at staying out of the box, so we have to keep that up. We stop chasing the puck so much on the PK and stay in our lanes. Need more puck movement on the PP, there is basically no high/low puck movement, it's all Brodie to Gaudreau, back to Brodie over to Versteeg shot into shin pads.

[travel_dude]

27 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

So far we are 11th in possession 50.85, 4th in 5v5 save% .941, but 27th 5v5 shooting% 6.3.

 

5v5 we are playing well, we just don't have enough finishers.

 

Where we are getting killed is on special teams. We are 21st on the PP 15% and 27th in the PK 76.6%.

 

We have been better at staying out of the box, so we have to keep that up. We stop chasing the puck so much on the PK and stay in our lanes. Need more puck movement on the PP, there is basically no high/low puck movement, it's all Brodie to Gaudreau, back to Brodie over to Versteeg shot into shin pads.

 

And the Oilers can attest to this.  They are leaders in Corsi and shot for per game, but have become bad on special teams.  

 

It's no surprise that when we were winning games, we had special teams total running over 100 combined.  Those were also a high number of shots against per game.  I believe we have become too passive on the PK.  We are leaving guys open for the one-timer.  We are making it far too easy to enter the zone.  I agree with your analysis of the PP.  The top unit needs a change.  Brouwer out.  Bring in a player that can deflect pucks, not stop them.  Sub out Versteeg for a D-man that can get a point shot on nets.  Wasn;t that Stone's best attribute?  Hard shot?    

[MAC331]

31 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

And the Oilers can attest to this.  They are leaders in Corsi and shot for per game, but have become bad on special teams.  

 

It's no surprise that when we were winning games, we had special teams total running over 100 combined.  Those were also a high number of shots against per game.  I believe we have become too passive on the PK.  We are leaving guys open for the one-timer.  We are making it far too easy to enter the zone.  I agree with your analysis of the PP.  The top unit needs a change.  Brouwer out.  Bring in a player that can deflect pucks, not stop them.  Sub out Versteeg for a D-man that can get a point shot on nets.  Wasn;t that Stone's best attribute?  Hard shot?    

I agree with JTech in that we are taking less penalties which helps. On the PK we need fast/quicker players out front than Stajan and Brouwer. Backlund and Frolik are excellent. Bennett and Lazar would be worth trying. On the PP I would use Versteeg on the 2nd unit the same as they use Gaudreau but not on the point (he makes me nervous there). I would be utilizing Ferland, Bennett and Tkachuk for in front of the net presence.

[DirtyDeeds]

Glen Gulutzan was sold to us as the coach who could take us to the next level.

 

After 1 full season plus 11 games played we are sitting:
27th GF
15 GA
21st PP%
27th PK%

 

We are logging 
2.27 GF/Game(29th in league)
2.91 GA/game(19th in league)

 

Not going to win many games letting in more than we score even with the stellar goaltending we are getting.

Also his systems were going to make for a more exciting playstyle.

 

It is almost time to open up the discussion as to whether GG is able to "take us to the next level."  as billed.
 

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Glen Gulutzan was sold to us as the coach who could take us to the next level.

 

After 1 full season plus 11 games played we are sitting:
27th GF
15 GA
21st PP%
27th PK%

 

We are logging 
2.27 GF/Game(29th in league)
2.91 GA/game(19th in league)

 

Not going to win many games letting in more than we score even with the stellar goaltending we are getting.

Also his systems were going to make for a more exciting playstyle.

 

It is almost time to open up the discussion as to whether GG is able to "take us to the next level."  as billed.
 

 

I think there is already a fairly large group of fans that feel we are past the point on the coach, or at the very least on Cameron and Jerrard.  Playing possession hockey is fine if you have some kind of identity to go with it.  Everyone knew what the Kings were.  The Preds are an interesting team.  Both were well coached.  The Kings suffered because they depended on keeping the other teams to 2 goals or less.  

 

I'm not saying yay or nay on Gully here.  If Trotz was available, I would be all over that, but that's more of a positive thing for Trotz.  The guy without a job right now is Tippett.  Yikes.  With a stable of good young players, he kept going with lesser vets.  No better in my mind.

[ABC923]

I agree there is no one better on the market at the moment, but I am seriously doubting GG is going to get us to the next level.  I appreciate playing good possession hockey, and I think that's important, but there are some bizzarro decisions being made that are not helping us win.  Brouwer on the PP.  Running a 3rd line of Stajan-Brouwer-Glass and a 4th line of Jankowski-Bennett-Versteeg.  Putting said third line out in situations where you need a goal late in the game.  Playing Bartkowski.  The list goes on.

[Cowtownguy]

6 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Listen I wouldn't use Brouwer on the PP either but if all you want is a big body screening the goalie so the real shooters can do the scoring he fills the bill. The problems we have been having on both our PP units does not rest on Brouwer (I actually think he does his part well). To many passes, to many lame passes and shooting into opposing players legs is being done by the very players we need to be smarter.

I also call BS on the "limited" resources comment, the talent is here to do the job. One player, one position does not correct the lack of execution occurring.

I don't think he is particularly good at that either. He rarely actually stands in front of the goalie, and he doesn't battle in front of the crease when he has been there. I think that the dude has just checked out. I think the same is true for Stajan. The only thing that Brouwer has done a few times this year is to stand up for other players at times.

 

We cannot afford to take any penalties with this penalty kill. If we get three penalties or more, the game is over.

 

We need more shots from the point. 

 

 

[MAC331]

3 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I don't think he is particularly good at that either. He rarely actually stands in front of the goalie, and he doesn't battle in front of the crease when he has been there. I think that the dude has just checked out. I think the same is true for Stajan. The only thing that Brouwer has done a few times this year is to stand up for other players at times.

 

We cannot afford to take any penalties with this penalty kill. If we get three penalties or more, the game is over.

 

We need more shots from the point. 

 

 

I will disagree on almost everything you have here. I think Brouwer has been doing just fine with what is being asked of him. Like I said I think we can do better than him as a presence in front of the net. Stajan is what he is at this stage but I don't think he is not trying out there. When we were getting all the penalties we actually were doing good on PK most times. Recently not so much.

I agree we need our defense to be better when the decide to engage offensively. Brodie was shooting now he isn't, pass first now. I don't know what gets into his head. Hamilton needs to be told the season has started and Giordano needs to shoot before the defender is right on top of him. All things that can be fixed with some added emphasis on them.

[Cowtownguy]

1 minute ago, MAC331 said:

I will disagree on almost everything you have here. I think Brouwer has been doing just fine with what is being asked of him. Like I said I think we can do better than him as a presence in front of the net. Stajan is what he is at this stage but I don't think he is not trying out there. When we were getting all the penalties we actually were doing good on PK most times. Recently not so much.

I agree we need our defense to be better when the decide to engage offensively. Brodie was shooting now he isn't, pass first now. I don't know what gets into his head. Hamilton needs to be told the season has started and Giordano needs to shoot before the defender is right on top of him. All things that can be fixed with some added emphasis on them.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I believe that if we waived Stajan (or Brouwer for that matter), no other team would acquire him based on his performance over the past two years. He is not even drawing penalties with good fakes anymore. My wife and I used to enjoy rating his diving performances. I think that there is trying and there is trying. It looks like both players have lost their passion for the game.

 

I said more shots from the point. To clarify, I would like to see our defence activate like the Predators. With Gio, Brodie, and Hamilton, I don't quite get why we are not getting more scoring from the point. The forwards are clearly struggling in this regard.

 

Hopefully, this is still just shaking off rust. I had expected a little more. 

[MAC331]

1 minute ago, Cowtownguy said:

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I believe that if we waived Stajan (or Brouwer for that matter), no other team would acquire him based on his performance over the past two years. He is not even drawing penalties with good fakes anymore. My wife and I used to enjoy rating his diving performances. I think that there is trying and there is trying. It looks like both players have lost their passion for the game.

 

I said more shots from the point. To clarify, I would like to see our defence activate like the Predators. With Gio, Brodie, and Hamilton, I don't quite get why we are not getting more scoring from the point. The forwards are clearly struggling in this regard.

 

Hopefully, this is still just shaking off rust. I had expected a little more. 

I never get to excited in October as things are getting worked out. We are not a fine tuned machine yet. I also don't think people are taking into consideration that GG istring to give some players their opportunities and some have not worked out. I truly believe they want Bennett to be a C but let's give GG some credit for moving him and bringing in Jankowski. Then this change takes some time to an out or not, very seldom do you get instant success. We knew Ferland was filler material on the top line so he tries Jagr and he goes down to injury so you are back to Ferland. All I can say is our lack of consistency is obvious but I wouldn't say it is from a lack of effort or heart as some want to say.

[stubblejumper1]

 

10 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Listen I wouldn't use Brouwer on the PP either but if all you want is a big body screening the goalie so the real shooters can do the scoring he fills the bill. The problems we have been having on both our PP units does not rest on Brouwer (I actually think he does his part well). To many passes, to many lame passes and shooting into opposing players legs is being done by the very players we need to be smarter.

I also call BS on the "limited" resources comment, the talent is here to do the job. One player, one position does not correct the lack of execution occurring.

 

I would argue that it is no longer feasible to throw out a guy on the powerplay who is supposed to do nothing more than screen the goalie.  Yes, you need a player in front of the net causing traffic but he needs to be able to tip shots, retrieve pucks and knock in rebounds.  

 

Brouwer, with zero goals in eleven games, is obviously out of his element on the PP.  But, who is a better option?  

 

Tkachuk is a left hand shot, Backlund is a left hand shot, Frolik is a left hand shot, Ferland is a left hand shot and is “filler,”  Bennett is a left hand shot and has zero points in eleven games,  Jankowski is a left hand shot and has zero points, Stajan is a left hand shot and has has zero points and Glass is a left hand shot with zero points

 

Versteeg is not built to stand in front of the net, Lazar has zero goals and F Hamilton has zero goals. 

 

That leaves Jagr.  I hope he can step in soon and excel on the PP.  Even if he does, this team still has a gaping hole on RW and Gulutzan cannot be blamed for that. 

 

 

[JTech780]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

And the Oilers can attest to this.  They are leaders in Corsi and shot for per game, but have become bad on special teams.  

 

It's no surprise that when we were winning games, we had special teams total running over 100 combined.  Those were also a high number of shots against per game.  I believe we have become too passive on the PK.  We are leaving guys open for the one-timer.  We are making it far too easy to enter the zone.  I agree with your analysis of the PP.  The top unit needs a change.  Brouwer out.  Bring in a player that can deflect pucks, not stop them.  Sub out Versteeg for a D-man that can get a point shot on nets.  Wasn;t that Stone's best attribute?  Hard shot?    

 

I am less worried about how hard the shot is from the point, I am more worried about the shot getting through. Little brother Dougie rarely if ever winds up and takes a slap shot, but what makes him so effective is that he gets the puck through and on net and he has a quick release. 

[travel_dude]

27 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I am less worried about how hard the shot is from the point, I am more worried about the shot getting through. Little brother Dougie rarely if ever winds up and takes a slap shot, but what makes him so effective is that he gets the puck through and on net and he has a quick release. 

 

The point was that Brodie and Versteeg do not get shots through that often.  I would use Ferland in Versteeg's place if you still want to use 4-1 forwards. 

 

Watching Ferland tip in Johnny's shot, and almost doing it a second time 5v5, why is it so hard to use Ferland in that spot on the PP?  He can get the puck back as well as screen and get garbage goals.  

[AlbertaBoy12]

Why is the coaching thing still a discussion? The flames were a top team after a horrendous start last season, and its honestly a good thing most fans arent the gm. The flames have shown many good signs to start this season, and I would say the coaching has been reasonable, I see the flames turning a corner, looked pretty good tonight consistently albeit against a tired washington team. 

[CheersMan]

4 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I never get to excited in October as things are getting worked out. We are not a fine tuned machine yet. I also don't think people are taking into consideration that GG istring to give some players their opportunities and some have not worked out. I truly believe they want Bennett to be a C but let's give GG some credit for moving him and bringing in Jankowski. Then this change takes some time to an out or not, very seldom do you get instant success. We knew Ferland was filler material on the top line so he tries Jagr and he goes down to injury so you are back to Ferland. All I can say is our lack of consistency is obvious but I wouldn't say it is from a lack of effort or heart as some want to say.

I think your "We Group" lost a member or two tonight.  In fact, it may not even be a group at all.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Why is the coaching thing still a discussion? The flames were a top team after a horrendous start last season, and its honestly a good thing most fans arent the gm. The flames have shown many good signs to start this season, and I would say the coaching has been reasonable, I see the flames turning a corner, looked pretty good tonight consistently albeit against a tired washington team. 

 

You have only so many choices as to the struggles of the Flames:

- lack of talent

- wrong players on the ice

- 5v5 system not working

- Special Teams systems not working

- players not able to execute said systems

 

The middle three are coaching related.  The other two are player related.  

 

Tonight you saw the things that make us a good team, and not the usual things that create losses.  But there were some things totally masked by Smith.  Grade A chances.

Turning a corner means playing like this every game, regardless of whether you win or lose.  We haven't played like this for awhile.  I wish we had a game tomorrow or Tuesday to keep rolling.    

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, CheersMan said:

I think your "We Group" lost a member of two tonight.  In fact, it may not even be a group at all.

 

Just for one game I wish we could see a PP not using Brouwer and using Ferly instead.  The guy has some pretty slick mitts.  But what sense would it make to play a guy that can separate a defender from the puck in the O-zone.  Or deflect a puck.  Or be the first guy in the corner on a dump and chase.  Or stick up for a player being roughed up.

Ferland is underrated because he leaves you wanting more.  He gets one goal and almost gets a 2nd.  Next game he may be invisible.  I'm not sure what the cause is.