Calgary Flames Drafting and Development: Your Analysis

[cross16]

19 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I'm hoping that camp invite McKenna picks up a contract with the Flames.

He's a RHS RW, overager, and played last year with Pelletier.

They are good friends.

 

Might be a good player to add to Stockton.

Or he could go back to Moncton.

Either way, he has some skill.

Not sure how he looked at the camp here.

 

On another note, how did Philp look?

Hard to judge Canadian College hockey compared to other leagues. 

 

I only went to the game so not even close to the most qualified person on this, but for me no one stood out enough to warrant a contract. McKenna had a decent game, and can really grind away in the corners. Threw a couple nice hits but again just not the type of guy I would want to give an NHL deal deal, but an AHL deal? Maybe. 

The 2 camps invites that I liked from the game were Ronnie Hein and Montana Onyebuchi. Just given the state of the blueline, perhaps Onyeuchi gets a deal as their options sure are limited there.

 

Philp looked ok. Didn't really stand out one way or another. The Derek Ryan comparison really jumps out at you, as they even just look so similar on the ice (stature and all). He's got wheels and when he get's the puck got it up and ice pretty quick. Can certainly carry and skate with the puck, just didn't do much with it when he had it. 

but again, short scrimmage and July hockey so certainly not going to draw conclusions. 

 

14 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

I found it difficult to observe the individual talent that was out there because they played such a defensive game, and always at the wrong end of the ice. Do you think that you could evaluate/rank order the goalies on the basis of this game, and the way it unfolded? You might have a better eye than I do. They all looked impressive to me. Schneider and Parsons were very good. They had better keep up the hard work because the others also looked solid to me.

 

the first half of the game was challenging for sure. Play was "clunky" and safe which is to be expected. I always need to remind myself that these guys have not played a game of hockey in over a month and have never played together. Thought the game got much better as it went along. I do thikn the talent on D played a part as there were just so many passes missing the mark, turnovers at the blueline, dumb plays up the middle etc etc etc. 

 

I would agree that overall the goaltending was pretty solid. Score being 6-4 wouldn't make you think that, but at least half to goals were either excellent plays or taps in from great passes. The format also didn't favor the goalies (played 5 on 5, then big chunks of 4 on 4 with a shootout).

Their invite wasn't very good, but all of the prospects were solid. I'm not sure any stood out as great thought i thought they generally made the saves they were supposed to. Zagidulin has a certain calmness about him I really liked and a really fast glove. Schneider made an unbelievable save in the shootout. I forget who the player was, but basically they attempted the same move you saw on the twitter clip above and Schnedier just threw his glove up and pulled it out of the air. 

My other takeaway, Wolf is so small in pads. It's funny because out of the pads he is fine (and a super nice kid BTW) but with pads on in the net he was small. 

 

14 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

 

Pospisil stood out somewhat. He was very verbal, dogged it at times, show amazing speed at times, and behaved oddly to me in a shootout situation. He skated quickly, full stop, and slapped the puck in. I think the goalie was Schneider (please correct me if I am wrong)? He just shrugged, which made me laugh (I like Kipper emotional intensity).

 

Popsipisil was solid yes, just didn't stand out as much as the other guys for me. I wish he was a little faster but he can work on that, but your right you definitely saw the physical play and that goal was impressive. It was Parsons and he took a slap shot from around the faceoff dot and blew it right over Parsons shoulder. 

[cross16]

Dustin Wolf has already been invited, but yesterday Demetrios Koumontzis also confirmed he has been invited to the US roster for the Summer Showcaes so both are on the radar for the World Junior team. 

 

both are in tough, but to have your 4th rounder and 7th rounder on the radar is still great news. With Spencer Knight on the radar it's going to be tough for Wolf to get much of a shot. 

 

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

I only went to the game so not even close to the most qualified person on this, but for me no one stood out enough to warrant a contract. McKenna had a decent game, and can really grind away in the corners. Threw a couple nice hits but again just not the type of guy I would want to give an NHL deal deal, but an AHL deal? Maybe. 

The 2 camps invites that I liked from the game were Ronnie Hein and Montana Onyebuchi. Just given the state of the blueline, perhaps Onyeuchi gets a deal as their options sure are limited there.

 

I was thinking he can sign a pro deal up to the start of the Q season.  Can you do that if it's just an AHL deal?

An ELC NHL deal gives you a bit longer for him to progress, and he could go back to junior or the AHL, making only 70k. 

I'm just thinking that having him under contract would be a good thing for Pelletier.

 

Anyway, it was just a thought.

[rickross]

Thanks for breakdowns Cross, I have no idea what to make of our current crop of prospects. Sounds like there are no true blue chips but there’s some potential there. Everyone’s seems to be atleast another 2-3 years away, but it’s sounding like we have a decent staple of potential 3rd and 4th liners. No idea what we have for future goalies as I still don’t know what to make of Schneider, Parsons and Gillies...hopefully atleast 1 of em proves worthy. Doesn’t seem like we have much help on the way to be honest 😕

[cross16]

I would not agree with that opinion actually and would say help is on the way. Think it's important to remember that they do have a blue chipper and his name is Jusso Valamaki. He wasn't at the camp due to his NHL experience last year but he is still only 20 and was drafted 2 years ago. Not to mention you've got young guys like Mangiapane and Dube on the cusp and IMO both are players. 

 

In terms of the camp, yes there may have be no blue chippers but also typically those types of prospects you draft in the top 10, where the Flames are not drafting anymore. It takes a while for late round picks to reach "blue chip" status (take a look at Gaudreau for example) but you want to see the talent at least. Despite the fact that they are not drafting high, there were still a hafl doze guys at the camp you were excited to watch. Phillips, Pelletier, Koumatzis and Petterson all were fun to watch, and all flash high end skill level that could land them in the top 6. Will it happen, we shall see but to have 4 guys do that at a development camp is still pretty cool and IMO great reason for optimism because you've got multiple chances to hit. This is the deepest group of forward prospects i've seen for the Flames and I started going to these camps in 2003. D is shallow yes, but let's also point out that they have 4 blueliners on their NHL roster under the age of 23. 

 

To each their own, but I'm quite optimistic and a fan of the Flames prospect pool right now and think they are doing an excellent job at the draft table the last few drafts. You are consistently seeing Flames prospect move up the boards of draft publications when they do re drafts of previous drafts and that's really encouraging. 

[The_People1]

Why no Eetu Tuulola at camp?  Is he too old?

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Why no Eetu Tuulola at camp?  Is he too old?

 

He was eligible but no word on why he wasn't able to attend.  Often times it could be as simple as a scheudling conflict. 

 

Flames also held Valamki and Dube out so also possible they'd rather see Eetu at main camp and view him as closer. Flames have started to use this camp strictly for development purposes. 

[travel_dude]

I am looking forward to a new AHL team this year.

Some new guys that graduated from junior.

Some new recruits from across the pond.

Very few D prospects, but as noted many of the best are in the NHL.

 

I doubt we hit on a lot of the late rounders or undrafted guys, but there is a chance that guys like Ruzicka, Phillips, Tuulola, Gawdin and Philp produce at the AHL level and get the chance to play NHL games.  Sometimes the right opportunity just comes along and the player shines.  Not holding my breath, just saying that it happens.  

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

He was eligible but no word on why he wasn't able to attend.  Often times it could be as simple as a scheudling conflict. 

 

Flames also held Valamki and Dube out so also possible they'd rather see Eetu at main camp and view him as closer. Flames have started to use this camp strictly for development purposes. 

 

Hopefully it means Tuulola is viewed as being very close so therefore no need to go to this camp.  There's potential there for a 4th line RW role for him to start the season.

[JTech780]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Why no Eetu Tuulola at camp?  Is he too old?

 

I could be wrong but I thought I read somewhere that he was pretty banged up at the end of a long playoff run in Finland, so perhaps that's why he wasn't at development camp.

[Cowtownguy]

10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Hopefully it means Tuulola is viewed as being very close so therefore no need to go to this camp.  There's potential there for a 4th line RW role for him to start the season.

I was disappointed that Tuulola was not there. He was amazing at his first camp. I think the dude managed to swing something like 3-4 goals in the scrimmage. He has high hockey IQ from what I can gather. He is one prospect that I have high hopes for. 

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I was disappointed that Tuulola was not there. He was amazing at his first camp. I think the dude managed to swing something like 3-4 goals in the scrimmage. He has high hockey IQ from what I can gather. He is one prospect that I have high hopes for. 

 

He's going to be pushing hard for a spot in the opening night roster.

Not saying he has a chance, but he does have the size for it.

Talent wise, he should be at least as capable as say Hathaway.

NHL readiness is the issue.

He's played against men, but not in the AHL or NHL.

[Thebrewcrew]

Pronman of the Athletic ranks the Flames system as the worst in the league. However he does mention it is due to the graduation of Andersson, Valimaki, Kylington and Dube, he no longer considers them prospects 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Pronman of the Athletic ranks the Flames system as the worst in the league. However he does mention it is due to the graduation of Andersson, Valimaki, Kylington and Dube, he no longer considers them prospects 

 

Not surprised except Dube should still be considered a prospect.  Outside of that, Pelletier is our best prospect and he's probably a 2nd line LW at peak.  Parsons may have the highest ceiling as a Flames prospect but he had a bad season and had surgery (if I'm not mistaken).  Who knows how that affects his game.  He may project better as a back-up only.  And that's all we have.

 

Phillips and Zavgorodny are hail mary top 6 prospects with no more than 25% likelihood they will make it.  Tuulola, Ruzicka, Pospisil, and Gawdin have 3rd/4th line potential.  This might be the worst the Flames prospect pool has looked in franchise history.

[cccsberg]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Not surprised except Dube should still be considered a prospect.  Outside of that, Pelletier is our best prospect and he's probably a 2nd line LW at peak.  Parsons may have the highest ceiling as a Flames prospect but he had a bad season and had surgery (if I'm not mistaken).  Who knows how that affects his game.  He may project better as a back-up only.  And that's all we have.

 

Phillips and Zavgorodny are hail mary top 6 prospects with no more than 25% likelihood they will make it.  Tuulola, Ruzicka, Pospisil, and Gawdin have 3rd/4th line potential.  This might be the worst the Flames prospect pool has looked in franchise history.

I'd say Zavgorodny and Pospisil are going to make it, along with Pelletier and Parsons and 1 of the defensemen, let's go with Yelesin.  I'd also say 3-4 of the remainder will also make it in lower, but important roles, let's say Pettersson and Tuulola/Ruzicka/Gawdin/Phillips/Wolf/Robinson/Lomberg/Lerby/Koumontzis/Nikolayev/Roman....  That would mean 5-9 of our current "prospects" make it, in addition to Anderson, Valimaki, Kylington, Mangiapanne, Dube, Jankowski, Quine, Czarnik and Rittich, 9 additional prospects who have "made it" within the past 2 years.  I'd say that's pretty outstanding prospect development and pipeline.   If the Flames can continue to bring in 2-3 players per year, or more that will easily keep them going at a high level.  Consider that in the past 5 years we've also added top level to elite players Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Hamilton/Hanifin, Ferland/Lindholm and Bennett.... we are doing well.  The only thing about the current crop is outside of 3-4 just "graduated" we don't have any obvious blue-chipper elite guys in the system.  If they get there they'll have to battle the naysayers who think everything is apparent with 16-17 year olds.... Ha!

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, cccsberg said:

I'd say Zavgorodny and Pospisil are going to make it, along with Pelletier and Parsons and 1 of the defensemen, let's go with Yelesin.  I'd also say 3-4 of the remainder will also make it in lower, but important roles, let's say Pettersson and Tuulola/Ruzicka/Gawdin/Phillips/Wolf/Robinson/Lomberg/Lerby/Koumontzis/Nikolayev/Roman....  That would mean 5-9 of our current "prospects" make it, in addition to Anderson, Valimaki, Kylington, Mangiapanne, Dube, Jankowski, Quine, Czarnik and Rittich, 9 additional prospects who have "made it" within the past 2 years.  I'd say that's pretty outstanding prospect development and pipeline.   If the Flames can continue to bring in 2-3 players per year, or more that will easily keep them going at a high level.  Consider that in the past 5 years we've also added top level to elite players Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Hamilton/Hanifin, Ferland/Lindholm and Bennett.... we are doing well.  The only thing about the current crop is outside of 3-4 just "graduated" we don't have any obvious blue-chipper elite guys in the system.  If they get there they'll have to battle the naysayers who think everything is apparent with 16-17 year olds.... Ha!

 

What do you mean by "make it" though?  I think 5-9 will get a cup of coffee at the NHL level but maybe only Pelletier will realistically "make it" aka Mangiapane, Jankowski, Andersson, etc.  As in, "stay".  We will always have a spot for players like Lomberg, Foo, Quine, etc to dangle the carrot.

[cccsberg]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

What do you mean by "make it" though?  I think 5-9 will get a cup of coffee at the NHL level but maybe only Pelletier will realistically "make it" aka Mangiapane, Jankowski, Andersson, etc.  As in, "stay".  We will always have a spot for players like Lomberg, Foo, Quine, etc to dangle the carrot.

Making it being something like 100 games in the NHL.  

[The_People1]

37 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Making it being something like 100 games in the NHL.  

 

Five to nine prospects in the current pool will play 100 games in the NHL... 

 

[cross16]

On 8/13/2019 at 11:18 PM, The_People1 said:

 

.  This might be the worst the Flames prospect pool has looked in franchise history.

 

It was worse under Sutter, and honestly it isn’t close. I remember going to prospect camps back then and it was a depressing exercise because the quality was so low and you had just no one worth getting exited about. Sure, now  it’s built up of high risk guys but at least there is some potential reward there unlike the Sutter years where there was just nothing. 

I personally am not a fan of Pronman and I don’t think he is a good scout so I don’t put much stock into his reports. He’s been low on the flames for a while and yet they have had a very successful system. He really favors high end prospects so good teams at the nhl level almost always wind up at the bottom of his ranking.

Not saying the flames are in good shape or deserve to be higher because they probably deserve a bottom 10 ranking, but when you are the 2nd best team in the league on the backs of mostly younger talent that is going to happen. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

It was worse under Sutter, and honestly it isn’t close. I remember going to prospect camps back then and it was a depressing exercise because the quality was so low and you had just no one worth getting exited about. Sure, now  it’s built up of high risk guys but at least there is some potential reward there unlike the Sutter years where there was just nothing. 

 

It was a different era though.  We were just coming out of the clutch and grab days so size still mattered more than skill.  Sutter swung for the next Jarome Iginla.  We ended up with a bunch of 6'-3" 220 lbs who couldn't skate.  Nowadays, you swing for the next Gaudreau.  

[Horsman1]

18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It was a different era though.  We were just coming out of the clutch and grab days so size still mattered more than skill.  Sutter swung for the next Jarome Iginla.  We ended up with a bunch of 6'-3" 220 lbs who couldn't skate.  Nowadays, you swing for the next Gaudreau.  

swing for a gaudreau and end up with Kevin Lavallee.. skate like the wind but duck and hide when he shoots the puck.. I miss Left wing lock.. it was easier to plan a roster back then

 

[The_People1]

54 minutes ago, Horsman1 said:

swing for a gaudreau and end up with Kevin Lavallee.. skate like the wind but duck and hide when he shoots the puck.. I miss Left wing lock.. it was easier to plan a roster back then

 

I think the NHL needs to bring back the red line.  Remove clutch and grab but put the two line pass back in.

 

Hockey has become a half-court game whereas before, we saw lots of action in the neutral zone.  Aggressive pressure at the opponents blueline generated lots of turnovers in the neutral which resulted in odd man rushes and scoring chances.  Also, lots of big hits and squeeze plays.  The game today is kind of predictable.

[cross16]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

It was a different era though.  We were just coming out of the clutch and grab days so size still mattered more than skill.  Sutter swung for the next Jarome Iginla.  We ended up with a bunch of 6'-3" 220 lbs who couldn't skate.  Nowadays, you swing for the next Gaudreau.  

 

See and that’s exactly why I think Sutter and co missed the boat. It was always about skill, it’s just swung A little more recently. Even in the clutch and grab era the teams that won cups were skilled 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think the NHL needs to bring back the red line.  Remove clutch and grab but put the two line pass back in.

 

Hockey has become a half-court game whereas before, we saw lots of action in the neutral zone.  Aggressive pressure at the opponents blueline generated lots of turnovers in the neutral which resulted in odd man rushes and scoring chances.  Also, lots of big hits and squeeze plays.  The game today is kind of predictable.

I for one do not wish for trap style hockey again, even now look at the teams that plug up the neutral zone, the team doesn't know how to deal with it. Right now this team is built for quick pass run and gun hockey, a two line pass rule would affect this team immensely, and not for the good.

[The_People1]

36 minutes ago, cross16 said:

See and that’s exactly why I think Sutter and co missed the boat. It was always about skill, it’s just swung A little more recently. Even in the clutch and grab era the teams that won cups were skilled 

 

Well, when you can clutch, grab, and water ski off your opponents, then you need size and strength to break free.  It was pretty much within the rules to pin players against the boards for as long as you can hold them there.  You had to be big or you wouldn't make it.  

 

You didn't need that much skill though.  Certainly not as much skill as Gaudreau.  Big but with enough skill was good enough.  I don't fault Sutter for his draft philosophy because that was the era.