Early Player Review

[cross16]

I actually saw a fair bit of positives last night.

 

1. 1st period. They got off to a good start, they forechecked hard and put Washington on their heels. Got the first goal  and brought the effort level they needed.

2. To expand on that, outside of about a 12-15 minute stretch of the 2nd period I thought the Flames played solid. Unfortuantely, that 12-15 min stretched netted 3 goals and basiclaly put them out of the game. But take that out and you saw the work ethic and skating ability of the Flames of last year. They are starting to find their game its just taking longer than it should and we all want.

3. The Flames came out flying in the 3rd period which also is shades of last year and also to me a sign things are starting to improve. They weren't going to quit even though their 2nd was pretty bad.

4. Once they split up Gio - Hamilton, you saw th eD core you wanted to see. Both Gio and Hamitlon started flying up and down the ice and the added dimension actualy allowed for much improved breakouts and zone entries. Outside of the 3rd period in Vancouver (which by the way might be the best period i've seen the Flames play in recent memeory) I thought the 3rd last night was the most seemless breakouts and zone entries you've seen all season because they had Gio back rushing the puck, collapsing D to the middle and using speed in the netural zone.

5. They showed they could adjust to not using the stretch pass. I thought for the most part they moved through the neutral zone better then they have in past games.

 

From an execution standpoint, i don't think last nights game was awful. last nights game was lost between the pipes and between the ears not on the ice. In the NHL you simply cannot allow 3 weak goals in game and expect to win, especially when your goaltending has been suspect all season. What I saw last night was a team that just does not believe they are going to get a save and that is in their head. They are really fighting it right now and are playign scared to make a mistake becuse they feel like every mistake is in the back of their net.

[cross16]

I'm not usually one to jump on a team so early in the season, but could someone please tell me (or refresh my memory) why picking up Hamilton was a good idea?  Last night was probably his worst game so far this season, and I'm not talking about sync-ing with Gio or anything like that.  Didn't take his man in front of the net, leading to a goal.  Out of position on a lot of plays, and simply dumping the puck to nobody on that late rush that looked like it had promise but ends up directly leading to another Washington goal.

 

I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing what everyone else appears to have seen in him to make him "quite the catch" for the team.

 

He is struggling to fit in there is no question there. When they acquired him I did caution people his defensive game is stil a work in progress so don't expect a stud right away. I think he deserves bit of a break becuase a young dman in new surroundings, new d partner, higher expectations etc etc. Takes a while to adjust IMO. I also don't think pairing him with Gio has worked well at all and I think the move to Russell - Hamilton last night looked like a much more natural pairing.

 

AT the end of the day you are still looking at a 6'5 dman who skates extremely well for the size, brings the puck up the ice well, moves it well, anchors a PP and can throw his weight around in his own zone. You have seen all of that too, but its just been hard to focus in on when you see the defensive miscues and the penalties but I really think that comes down to him trying to hard and not an indictment as to what he is as a player. The unfortunate thing with Dougie Hamilton is I think a lot of Flames fans thought we were getting a finished project, a solid top 3 dman who was going to step in right away and be a stud, and yes the contract they gave him dictates that too. But we need to remember this is a 22 year old dman with only 1 full season under his belt.

[kenny76]

It's hard watching a team with no confidence, however at any moment a single play can change the mentality of an entire roster. Hoping that moment comes sooner then later lol. Backs historically seems to elevate his game against the wings, we need the vets to guide the kids through this horrendous start and bring back our never quit attitude.

Have to admit I'm disappointed in "Doggie Hamilton" he's like the lazy worker hiding in the weeds trying not to be noticed but he sticks out like a sore thumb.I understand he's young, However it doesn't excuse him being so utterly soft in front of his net.

When your hands are failing you, use your legs and body to contribute defensively until the goals start to come.

[kehatch]

I'm not usually one to jump on a team so early in the season, but could someone please tell me (or refresh my memory) why picking up Hamilton was a good idea? Last night was probably his worst game so far this season, and I'm not talking about sync-ing with Gio or anything like that. Didn't take his man in front of the net, leading to a goal. Out of position on a lot of plays, and simply dumping the puck to nobody on that late rush that looked like it had promise but ends up directly leading to another Washington goal.

I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing what everyone else appears to have seen in him to make him "quite the catch" for the team.

I think people need to remember how young this guy is. He is 22 and playing on the top pairing on a new team.

He has a great tool set. Big, fast, smart, good offensive instincts, etc.

Once Brodie is back Hamilton will slot in better. I think he is going to have a Sid season despite the rough start.

[AlbertaBoy12]

I think people need to remember how young this guy is. He is 22 and playing on the top pairing on a new team.

He has a great tool set. Big, fast, smart, good offensive instincts, etc.

Once Brodie is back Hamilton will slot in better. I think he is going to have a Sid season despite the rough start.

I would agree. 

 

Its pretty tough for a 22 year old to sign a bit contract, come in on a new team with a new system and then just blow everyones expectations out of the water. He played much better last night, as it seemed once he started playing with russell he started to get some confidence in his game.

[kehatch]

Here is an update at the 11 game point. This time I am ranking the players in order.

Terrific

1. Gaudreau

2. Brodie

Decent

3. Frolik

4. Bennett

5. Hudler

6. Wideman

7. Engelland

8. Jones

9. Jooris

10. Kulak

Disappointing

11. Giordano

12. Monahan

13. Hamilton

14. Colborne

15. Stajan

16. Bouma

17. Bollig

18. Raymond

19. Ferland

20. Granlund

Terrible

21. Smid

22. Russell

23. Backlund

24. Ramo

25. Ortio

26. Hiller

Rankings are relative to expectation. I am not suggesting Engelland is a better D then Giordano for example. Just that Engelland has exceeded expectation while Giordano hasn't met them (yet).

[JankMoney]

Here is an update at the 11 game point. This time I am ranking the players in order.

Terrific

1. Gaudreau

2. Brodie

Decent

3. Frolik

4. Bennett

5. Hudler

6. Wideman

7. Engelland

8. Jones

9. Jooris

10. Kulak

Disappointing

11. Giordano

12. Monahan

13. Hamilton

14. Colborne

15. Stajan

16. Bouma

17. Bollig

18. Raymond

19. Ferland

20. Granlund

Terrible

21. Smid

22. Russell

23. Backlund

24. Ramo

25. Ortio

26. Hiller

Rankings are relative to expectation. I am not suggesting Engelland is a better D then Giordano for example. Just that Engelland has exceeded expectation while Giordano hasn't met them (yet).

couple changes

 

smid------------decent

stajan, Gio, Monahan----------decent as of last few games even hams looked better

Bennett, Colbourn-----------Terrific exceeding expectations

 

and I also think Engelland is playing way above his standards, he might actually be worth 2.9 right now, better D and way more and better shooting

[travel_dude]

Kehatch, your ranking are fair overall for the season.  In the last few games (since Brodie's return or just prior), some of the players are making strides from their respective rankings:

 

Bennett - has been a dangerous player since Bob talked to him.  He had 3 shots in the first 8 games, but after that he has shot 9 in six games and added 4 points.

 

Hudler is picking up where he left off.  While his pass-to-nobody resulted in a goal, 9/10 that play gets received by Johnny or Mony any other game.  

 

Hamilton - started off really rough, but has settled in.  Less pressure and better starts.  He is starting to skate more like Brodie and recognize his assignments better.  Would prefer to see him split time with Brodie to up his minutes slowly, but I think he is close to completely back on track.

 

Frolik, despite an easy hattie, has found some chemistry with Stajan.  Perhaps upping the minutes for thos two and finding a proper LW for them.  Bollig was ok last night, but is not offensive nor particularly defensive.  

 

Stajan seems like he is starting to find his niche.  Though he only got one point last night, he was responsible for 2 goals for.  He was also +3 last night.  That is pretty good, considering we only has 4 even strength goals.

 

I mostly agree with the other, both lately and all season. Gio needed Brodie from the beginning, but we can't have Russell/Wideman ever again.  Russell needs to be on the 3rd pair, and then we can fine tune the other two pairs.

[xstrike]

While he's lacked finish, I have liked Colborne's board battles. He's looked good so far this season to me, just needs to starts finishing.

Thank goodness Brodie's back. I would be interested in trying a Bromilton combo.

[420since1974]

I'm a fan of Colborne at his price level, only $1.275M.

 

He can play at all 3 forward positions and up & down most of the lines.

 

His FOs have been decent most games at center, and his board-work has improved vastly.

 

I'm sure that we'd all like to see a little more physicality and scoring from him.

 

If he improves in those two areas, he will be looking for a decent raise next season. 

[The_Argus]

While he's lacked finish, I have liked Colborne's board battles. He's looked good so far this season to me, just needs to starts finishing.

 

I agree. And he does have a couple goals, on a team that is struggling to score goals. I agree with most of Kehatch's rankings, but I would add Colborne to the "decent" category (at least for now; now that's he past the post-injury grace period, I'm expecting a little more moving forward). I also wouldn't have Smid so low, though to be fair, we've seen so little of him he's hard to rank. Wideman swings between "decent" and "disappointing" to me on a nightly basis. Backlund seems to be moving in the right direction, but now he needs to achieve consistency and start putting up some points.

[kehatch]

I have to point out again just how good Brodie has been. Look at how much better Russell was with Brodie. Or how about Giordano. I think he is the best D on our team, and one of the top D in the league. His budget contract is going to look like an absolute steal. l

[travel_dude]

I have to point out again just how good Brodie has been. Look at how much better Russell was with Brodie. Or how about Giordano. I think he is the best D on our team, and one of the top D in the league. His budget contract is going to look like an absolute steal. l

 

He is probably the most underrated d-man in the league.  The only people that recognize his abilities are most of the fans and selected MSM.  It's nice to see them noticing what we all seem to know.  There are some that even say that he is Calgary's Duncan Keith.

[cross16]

Brodie has been fantastic, to the point where if It were me, i'd run Brodie - Hamilton out there and see if Brodie can help get the best out of Hamilton. We've seen the best out of Russell and while its good, I dont' think it compares to how good Hamilton could be.

[travel_dude]

Brodie has been fantastic, to the point where if It were me, i'd run Brodie - Hamilton out there and see if Brodie can help get the best out of Hamilton. We've seen the best out of Russell and while its good, I dont' think it compares to how good Hamilton could be.

 

Agreed.  The time is right to do that.  Wideman and Gio have been good most nights, and you can't go back to Russell/Wideman.

Russell may have to work with Engelland to get his game back.  Simple plays, reduced minutes.  Engelland plays very low-risk game.

[cross16]

One of the many things I find myself disagreeing with Hartley about this year is this percevied insistance that they need Kris Russell going. Personally I thought we got the best possible Kris Russell last year and while he was good, he wasnt' great. I think you need to get Gio, Wdieman, and Hamilton going and sacrifice Russell becuase the upsdie that those 3 give you all are greater then what Russell can give you IMO.

[travel_dude]

One of the many things I find myself disagreeing with Hartley about this year is this percevied insistance that they need Kris Russell going. Personally I thought we got the best possible Kris Russell last year and while he was good, he wasnt' great. I think you need to get Gio, Wdieman, and Hamilton going and sacrifice Russell becuase the upsdie that those 3 give you all are greater then what Russell can give you IMO.

 

Hartley sees something in Russell we do not.  I don't know if BT does this year, though he seemed to be working on an extension.

If Hartley cannot see the issues, then BT has to trade him right now.  Forcing Brodie to play with him is leaving the other pairs unattended.  Russell with Hamilton was bad.  Russell and Wideman was worse.  Russell with Engelland is the only other solution.

 

BT needs to deal the guy now.  Take that option away from the coach.  Free up contract space.  Bring back (any) usable piece.

Use Smid as a 8 minute guy with Hamilton or Engelland, and double shift Brodie to round out the minutes if needed.  Dress a 7th D-man every night until we become a defensive team again.  Bollig is a waste for 6-8 minutes a night.

[The_Argus]

I too would like to see Russell with Engelland. I think Russell is trying to do too much right now and trying to play above his skill level. He's not a great offensive player (his shots rarely seem to make it through, and when they do, they often miss the net by a mile, sending the puck right back in the wrong direction). Last year he was good at distributing the puck in the offensive zone, but not so much this year.

 

Russel would balance out Engelland's slowness with more mobility and puck-moving skill, and it might force him to simplify his game and just play responsible defense, which is what the Flames need most at this point (well, that and competent goaltending).

 

Also, I think we need to get Hamilton in the top 4. He's looked more solid lately, and we need him in the top 4 long term, given his contract. If anyone can help him out, it's Brodie, who seems to be able to make everyone look good.

[cross16]

Hartley sees something in Russell we do not.  I don't know if BT does this year, though he seemed to be working on an extension.

If Hartley cannot see the issues, then BT has to trade him right now.  Forcing Brodie to play with him is leaving the other pairs unattended.  Russell with Hamilton was bad.  Russell and Wideman was worse.  Russell with Engelland is the only other solution.

 

BT needs to deal the guy now.  Take that option away from the coach.  Free up contract space.  Bring back (any) usable piece.

Use Smid as a 8 minute guy with Hamilton or Engelland, and double shift Brodie to round out the minutes if needed.  Dress a 7th D-man every night until we become a defensive team again.  Bollig is a waste for 6-8 minutes a night.

 

I wouldn't go that far.... Russell is very servicable depth and if an injury were to strike i think you would regret trading Russell instantly. If you can get a good deal for him sure but right now i doubt you get enough to warrant moving him out. If this continues and the Flames find themselves out it then use the spot for trying to build Nakadle or Kulak or something but right now they need to keep pushing to get this right and I think that includes Russell in some capactity.

[travel_dude]

I wouldn't go that far.... Russell is very servicable depth and if an injury were to strike i think you would regret trading Russell instantly. If you can get a good deal for him sure but right now i doubt you get enough to warrant moving him out. If this continues and the Flames find themselves out it then use the spot for trying to build Nakadle or Kulak or something but right now they need to keep pushing to get this right and I think that includes Russell in some capactity.

 

We had Brodie out for most of October, and no he didn't provide serviceable depth.

 

The benefit to trading him is that it 1) sends a message that we are serious about the results, and 2) addition by subtraction.  BTW, we are reportedly chasing a top 4 talented Russian D-man:

 

Russian defenceman Nikita Zaitsev has 13 points (four goals, nine assists) in 22 games with the KHL’s CSKA Moscow this season, and has many NHL clubs excited about his strong two-way game.

According to Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman, Zaitsev’s agent has said the 24-year-old is coming to North America next year.

Several teams — the Toronto Maple Leafs, Calgary Flames andVancouver Canucks among them — will fly overseas to see him play in a tournament next week. The Philadelphia Flyers and Los Angeles Kings are also said to have a strong interest in the 24-year-old. Friedman also noted that some teams are already in the process of meeting with him.

[The_People1]

I too would like to see Russell with Engelland. I think Russell is trying to do too much right now and trying to play above his skill level. He's not a great offensive player (his shots rarely seem to make it through, and when they do, they often miss the net by a mile, sending the puck right back in the wrong direction). Last year he was good at distributing the puck in the offensive zone, but not so much this year.

 

Russel would balance out Engelland's slowness with more mobility and puck-moving skill, and it might force him to simplify his game and just play responsible defense, which is what the Flames need most at this point (well, that and competent goaltending).

 

Also, I think we need to get Hamilton in the top 4. He's looked more solid lately, and we need him in the top 4 long term, given his contract. If anyone can help him out, it's Brodie, who seems to be able to make everyone look good.

 

I agree except, Hamilton is terrible right now.  Of all our D, I have a problem with Hamilton in the top 4 more than I do Russell in the top 4.  Just keep Hamilton with Engellend and try to trade and upgrade on Russell.  Maybe even bench him and play Smid full time with Wideman or Brodie.

[kehatch]

One of the many things I find myself disagreeing with Hartley about this year is this percevied insistance that they need Kris Russell going. Personally I thought we got the best possible Kris Russell last year and while he was good, he wasnt' great. I think you need to get Gio, Wdieman, and Hamilton going and sacrifice Russell becuase the upsdie that those 3 give you all are greater then what Russell can give you IMO.

Absolutely agree. It seems like "always earned" extends to previous years and criteria that doesn't necessarily mean great hockey. Russell has really struggled and he is getting all of the patience in the world. Hamilton had a rough start but isn't getting the same opportunities.

This is another example (imo) of the coach and GM not being on the same page.

[robrob1974]

It is the same with other players, like Baerstchi. He wasn't given the same opportunity to make mistakes when we were already losing as a team making such mistakes as a whole.

Russell should not get the minutes he has.

Hartley did the same with Berra and didn't play Ramo. Now he is doing it with Ortio. I don't like Ortio, but I also agree a goalie should get the chance to get into a groove.

[cross16]

I think calling Dougie Hamilton "terrible" is a bit harsh. Made mistakes sure but I think once they've split him up from Gio he's look better offensivly and been Ok defensivly.

 

Rhett Warrener was making this case today, and I fully agree, that I think Hartley is overdoing the whole "manage the ice time" thing. Once they got Hamilton the rhetoric immediatley became we arn't going to overexert the GIos, Widemans etc we are going to balance the ice time so no one plays 24/25 mins. At the time I didn't realy think of it but now you do and you ask Why? Don't you want your best players playing as much as possible and don't you want your best players as comfortable as possible? I think its well known that Dmen typically play much better (most anyway) they more ice time you give him so why are we trying to force something on them? Almost no Dman has looked comfortable this year so why not scrap this whole thing and go with what worked last year?

 

To me this relates directly to Hamilton. Hamilton is used to being a top 3/4 blueliner and 23 mins plus a night and now suddenly you want him to be at 18 and be more effective? doesn't work that way IMO. I would change this right away:

 

Gio - Wideman - 25-26 mins a night

Brodie - Hamilton - 24 -25

Russel - Englelland - 10-12.

 

If you are going to go down, go down riding your best players and stop trying to create situation and just let players play.

[SiouX_17]

I think calling Dougie Hamilton "terrible" is a bit harsh. Made mistakes sure but I think once they've split him up from Gio he's look better offensivly and been Ok defensivly.

 

Rhett Warrener was making this case today, and I fully agree, that I think Hartley is overdoing the whole "manage the ice time" thing. Once they got Hamilton the rhetoric immediatley became we arn't going to overexert the GIos, Widemans etc we are going to balance the ice time so no one plays 24/25 mins. At the time I didn't realy think of it but now you do and you ask Why? Don't you want your best players playing as much as possible and don't you want your best players as comfortable as possible? I think its well known that Dmen typically play much better (most anyway) they more ice time you give him so why are we trying to force something on them? Almost no Dman has looked comfortable this year so why not scrap this whole thing and go with what worked last year?

 

To me this relates directly to Hamilton. Hamilton is used to being a top 3/4 blueliner and 23 mins plus a night and now suddenly you want him to be at 18 and be more effective? doesn't work that way IMO. I would change this right away:

 

Gio - Wideman - 25-26 mins a night

Brodie - Hamilton - 24 -25

Russel - Englelland - 10-12.

 

If you are going to go down, go down riding your best players and stop trying to create situation and just let players play.

I tend to agree with you, but your pairings have been appropriately corrected by BH for today`s game.. Wideman, as the greatest liability among our D, has been finally moved to 3rd pairing [even though I would like him benched for a game or two and insert Kulak or Smid instead of him]..