Flames Power Play - Systemic Problems?

[travel_dude]

Watching different teams' power plays, I noticed some things that have been effective that we don't do.

 

Teams like Tampa use a player like Stamkos in the circle for the one-timer.  That's also how Yak scores a lot of his goals.  Harder for the defensing team to get in front of.  Have to have an accurate slapper for it to work, or it is out of the zone if it hits the boards.

 

The Canucks use a lot of setting up behind the net or on the goal line, looking for the cross-crease pass.

 

The Flames use the defense to get the shot on net quite a bit.  A lot of the shots are blocked before they get close.  It was effective last year, but teams has since adjusted to it.  The other option is to feed it to the slot.  More traffic there, and they can't always get a shot away. 

 

Those are things that they do once they get in the zone.  Getting it there can be another problem.  We have seen Johnny and Russell effectively carrying it in, but the forwards are stationary, so there sometime is little puck movement after that.  I personally hate the pass up the boards from the blueline.

That works less than 1/2 the time it seems.  

 

Johnny is an effective QB for unit 1, but who is the other one?  Frolik or Backlund?  We rarely use 4 forwards, so we can't load up a unit with an extra like Bennett or Frolik.

 

I don't have the answers, but thought it might spark some debate.  We had a "good" PP last year, but it needs to be better.  The playoffs exposed the lack of it.  In close games, it can be the difference between a W and a L.

 

 

[AlbertaBoy12]

I would actually like to see the flames use 4 forward on the pp. Maybe a guy like ferland or frolik, to go into the corner, retrieve the puck, stand in front of the net, do the grunt work. I think I would keep Hamilton on the first unit so that he could be the right handed shot if you care about that kinda thing. Then on the second unit you have gio and wideman which actually works well together to play the point, probably a combination of Bennett backlund and colborne maybe once he's healthy.

[The_People1]

I'm not sure it's fair to say there's a systemic problem with the PP just two games into the season.  We have new personnel (Hamilton, Frolik, Bennett, and even Ferland), so it will take some time for them to get a good feel of their teammates. 

 

I don't think the Flames need 4 forwards.  The Flames are one of the rare teams who have an abundance of offensive minded Dmen who can rush the puck, manage a PP, and score goals.  Wideman, Hamilton, and Giordano have great shots.  Russell and Brodie are excellent puck carriers.  If we run with 4 forwards, then the forward playing D will become a short-handed goal liability.

 

If anything, we're lacking RHS wingers who can launch one-timers off the one side.  We're missing a Jarome Iginla in his prime.  We could also use some size infront of the net for screening so maybe when Colborne returns to the lineup, he can play that role.

[travel_dude]

I'm not sure it's fair to say there's a systemic problem with the PP just two games into the season.  We have new personnel (Hamilton, Frolik, Bennett, and even Ferland), so it will take some time for them to get a good feel of their teammates. 

 

I don't think the Flames need 4 forwards.  The Flames are one of the rare teams who have an abundance of offensive minded Dmen who can rush the puck, manage a PP, and score goals.  Wideman, Hamilton, and Giordano have great shots.  Russell and Brodie are excellent puck carriers.  If we run with 4 forwards, then the forward playing D will become a short-handed goal liability.

 

If anything, we're lacking RHS wingers who can launch one-timers off the one side.  We're missing a Jarome Iginla in his prime.  We could also use some size infront of the net for screening so maybe when Colborne returns to the lineup, he can play that role.

 

I asked if it was a systemic problem, not stated it was.  

 

This goes back to last year, not just this year.  We have offensive weapons that should be able to score more on the PP.  Having wingers play their off-side (like Hudler and Frolik) is actually a benefit.  The puck has less distance to travel to be one-timed.

 

What I find frustrating is once the Flames are set up, they pass a lot and basically the D-man fires a shot on net.  If that is the MO, then we need a GlenX type in their to tip the puck.  Maybe using Ferland or Frolik down low allows for that.

[mike_jones]

The Flames had the 10th best powerplay in the league last season at 18.8%.  (3 teams tied at 19.3% and 2 teams at 19.0%)

 

They finished ahead of teams you'd think would be forces on the powerplay, like Chicago, Anaheim, New York Rangers, Montreal Canadiens, Tampa Bay Lightning

 

Come playoffs their powerplay improved to 19.4%

 

For a young team.  Definitely not concerned about the PP.  They move the puck well.  Need to get more shots on goal.

 

But you mentioned, "Teams like Tampa"....  perhaps Tampa might want to take a page off the Flames, considering the Flames had a better (just as good) PP then them last season....

[JTech780]

My biggest issues with the power play going back to last year, are that they don't attack the neutral zone with enough speed even though they have the guys that can do it, and when they gain the zone there doesn't seem to be much movement.

 

They have the guys that can skate the puck up the ice and force the defense to back off the blue line, they should rarely have to use the dump and chase approach. Dump and chase PP's drive me nuts.

 

Once in the zone they need more puck and player movement to get the PK to move and open up shooting lanes. Don't stand and wait for the puck, get to open areas.

[travel_dude]

The Flames had the 10th best powerplay in the league last season at 18.8%.  (3 teams tied at 19.3% and 2 teams at 19.0%)

 

They finished ahead of teams you'd think would be forces on the powerplay, like Chicago, Anaheim, New York Rangers, Montreal Canadiens, Tampa Bay Lightning

 

Come playoffs their powerplay improved to 19.4%

 

For a young team.  Definitely not concerned about the PP.  They move the puck well.  Need to get more shots on goal.

 

But you mentioned, "Teams like Tampa"....  perhaps Tampa might want to take a page off the Flames, considering the Flames had a better (just as good) PP then them last season....

 

The issues I have with the Flames don't show up so much in the bare numbers.  Calgary IIRC, had the fewest PP opportunities, so scoring more goals is a priority, as the % goes down when the opportunities go up.  The other stat I remember is that Calgary did not score 5v3 during the season, IIRC.  That should almost be a given.

 

Think to our slump of 9 losses in a row.  If we had scored more on the PP then, it may not have lasted that long.  There are only so many things you can improve upon in a year, so PP should always be a concern.

[mike_jones]

The issues I have with the Flames don't show up so much in the bare numbers.  Calgary IIRC, had the fewest PP opportunities, so scoring more goals is a priority, as the % goes down when the opportunities go up.  The other stat I remember is that Calgary did not score 5v3 during the season, IIRC.  That should almost be a given.

 

Think to our slump of 9 losses in a row.  If we had scored more on the PP then, it may not have lasted that long.  There are only so many things you can improve upon in a year, so PP should always be a concern.

I think you've confused the PP with the PK.  The Flames were the LEAST penalized team in the NHL, resulting in a lower PK% putting them in 19th overall on the PK.  In fact they had nearly 200 minutes less PK time, then the Winnipeg Jets who led the league in that department.

 

As for the PP.  They had the 11th most PP opportunities with 255.  They did manage to score two 5 on 3 goals during the regular season but only had 7 - 5 on 3 opportunities believe it or not.  The 2nd least amount in the NHL of 5 on 3 in terms of time (4:33)

 

Might be thinking 6 on 4 maybe?  Quite often the goalie was pulled trying for a comeback.

 

But this 5 on 3 goal was in the playoffs against the Nucks in game 3.  Only took 6 seconds for the Flames to capitalize on this one.  MONY!!!!!

 

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=2014030183-584-h

[travel_dude]

I think you've confused the PP with the PK.  The Flames were the LEAST penalized team in the NHL, resulting in a lower PK% putting them in 19th overall on the PK.  In fact they had nearly 200 minutes less PK time, then the Winnipeg Jets who led the league in that department.

 

As for the PP.  They had the 11th most PP opportunities with 255.  They did manage to score two 5 on 3 goals during the regular season but only had 7 - 5 on 3 opportunities believe it or not.  The 2nd least amount in the NHL of 5 on 3 in terms of time (4:33)

 

Might be thinking 6 on 4 maybe?  Quite often the goalie was pulled trying for a comeback.

 

But this 5 on 3 goal was in the playoffs against the Nucks in game 3.  Only took 6 seconds for the Flames to capitalize on this one.  MONY!!!!!

 

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=2014030183-584-h

Blame the first part on a faulty memory, I guess.  Couldn't find any stats to make sure of it.  

 

Anyway, the point is still valid.  If you don't make the most of your opportunities, you let victories slip away.

 

3/25 in the stretch of games we lost in December.  That losing streak almost put us out of the playoffs.  A few of them were winnable with a better power play.  Hartley has commented that a good power play can be the difference between wins and loses, as teams are so close to each other now.

[Frankieboi]

At times I question Hartleys personnel choices in certain situations and his strategies can be odd like be being overly defensive in overtime. But I guess he's the coach for a reason and gets a lot out his team.

[Pucksage]

At times I question Hartleys personnel choices in certain situations and his strategies can be odd like be being overly defensive in overtime. But I guess he's the coach for a reason and gets a lot out his team.

 

Jack Adams winner too.

 

Is it just me or do any of you also think they don't shoot enough on the PP?

[travel_dude]

Jack Adams winner too.

 

Is it just me or do any of you also think they don't shoot enough on the PP?

 

All coaches make mistakes.  They can be very good in one area, but may also delegate certain responsibilities (like PP or PK) to the assistant coaches.

 

They take lots of shots from the point, but how many of those are blocked.  That was one of my points in the OP.  If you are always shooting from the point, then you better have somebody like a GlenX for tipping in the puck.  That way, you can put the puck away from the crowd or blocking players, and get the re-direct.

[Pucksage]

All coaches make mistakes.  They can be very good in one area, but may also delegate certain responsibilities (like PP or PK) to the assistant coaches.

 

They take lots of shots from the point, but how many of those are blocked.  That was one of my points in the OP.  If you are always shooting from the point, then you better have somebody like a GlenX for tipping in the puck.  That way, you can put the puck away from the crowd or blocking players, and get the re-direct.

What I also noticed was they haven't been shooting one timers from the point or from the circle like with Wideman or Gio from last season. Couple that with the passes haven't been tape to tape the past 3 games. I hate all those icings they take in the PP.

 

Last game was a grade B+ on the passing for me. It's getting better but still missing those bank passes 30% of the time resulting in icings. Opposing coaches has adjusted to the stretch pass and the Flames need to better defend on that too as it resulted in the Brouwer goal last night.

[MAC331]

Watching different teams' power plays, I noticed some things that have been effective that we don't do.

 

Teams like Tampa use a player like Stamkos in the circle for the one-timer.  That's also how Yak scores a lot of his goals.  Harder for the defensing team to get in front of.  Have to have an accurate slapper for it to work, or it is out of the zone if it hits the boards.

 

The Canucks use a lot of setting up behind the net or on the goal line, looking for the cross-crease pass.

 

The Flames use the defense to get the shot on net quite a bit.  A lot of the shots are blocked before they get close.  It was effective last year, but teams has since adjusted to it.  The other option is to feed it to the slot.  More traffic there, and they can't always get a shot away. 

 

Those are things that they do once they get in the zone.  Getting it there can be another problem.  We have seen Johnny and Russell effectively carrying it in, but the forwards are stationary, so there sometime is little puck movement after that.  I personally hate the pass up the boards from the blueline.

That works less than 1/2 the time it seems.  

 

Johnny is an effective QB for unit 1, but who is the other one?  Frolik or Backlund?  We rarely use 4 forwards, so we can't load up a unit with an extra like Bennett or Frolik.

 

I don't have the answers, but thought it might spark some debate.  We had a "good" PP last year, but it needs to be better.  The playoffs exposed the lack of it.  In close games, it can be the difference between a W and a L.

I definitely like Gaudreau QB-ing from the LS approach and I would want Giordano and Wideman on that unit together. Wideman has the ability to act as that 4th forward. A second unit is more challenging right now without Brodie IMO, Russell is OK but he is not Brodie. Perhaps using Hamilton and Russell on the 2nd unit and have Russell move down lower on the sides but not sure what Hamilton is capable of right now.

[Pucksage]

I definitely like Gaudreau QB-ing from the LS approach and I would want Giordano and Wideman on that unit together. Wideman has the ability to act as that 4th forward. A second unit is more challenging right now without Brodie IMO, Russell is OK but he is not Brodie. Perhaps using Hamilton and Russell on the 2nd unit and have Russell move down lower on the sides but not sure what Hamilton is capable of right now.

 

I definitely like Gaudreau QB-ing from the LS approach and I would want Giordano and Wideman on that unit together. Wideman has the ability to act as that 4th forward. A second unit is more challenging right now without Brodie IMO, Russell is OK but he is not Brodie. Perhaps using Hamilton and Russell on the 2nd unit and have Russell move down lower on the sides but not sure what Hamilton is capable of right now.

 

I think that goal in Vancouver may be a small sample of what Dougie can do. They just have to get setup in the O zone. When they get in, they go pass, pass, pass then the puck gets chipped out. I'd like to see them pass, shoot, shoot so that the PK will be more wary and not be aggressive on the point man. I mean with 4 powerplays in the 1st they only got 3 shots on goal??!!!

[conundrumed]

My only problem with our powerplay is forcing shots from the point. To defend it, you clog the middle and play your forwards high. To combat it, imo, slide a winger to the bottom corner where he has space. If you don't have a shot, pass it to the corner, work low and have your dmen move up, with the opposite side dman sliding into the high slot. The more you can play that card, the more you can close their box up and open up the shot for the dmen. As it is, they play the high triangle way too much looking for the shot and have the other 2 fighting position in front. Like JTech says, you've gotta get a guy to open space, and that space is down low in the corner, or their box opens up. Easier said than done I know, but you have to have different looks or they'll just defend against the one you use too much. Mix it up, high to low.

[robrob1974]

Gelinas runs the PP I hear.

[cross16]

My problem with the PP isn't so much in the zone, its gaining the zone. i actually find for th emost part if they can get set up they move the puck well and create open spaces. i think a lack of confidence and a lack of consitantly gaining the zone effectivley are plaguing the PP so I don't think there are scematic problems. There are in the neutral zone but it looks like they are starting to make some changes to improve that.

[Anar_Sajoo]

Power play capitalization seems to be a major issue that needs polishing; but at the other end of the spectrum, the Flames are getting weaker at penalty killing.  At one point they used to score shorthanded goals, but now defending the puck has been difficult.    

[Pucksage]

Noticed the past 2 games Flames were shooting more on the powerplay rather than try to make it pretty and pass 3x even if there was a clear shooting lane. I believe they outshot the Penguins last game.

 

Keep the PP going guys! Also if not for 3 seconds the PK would've shut out the Pen's PP.

[cccsberg]

I was going to start another thread along the lines of "Ineffective Systems vs. Poor Execution" which would cover a wide gamut of subjects but looking through the old threads there were many touching on similar subjects, including this one specific to the PP.  So, let's resurrect it and update the discussion to today.

 

Our PP is currently 30th in the NHL, I believe, so its gotten WORSE since the discussion earlier in the year.  Reading back over this thread there are many observations and the ones that stand out are that our primary focus has been trying to get shots through from the D at the point, with many getting blocked.  This is still true to a lessor extent.

 

The last few weeks we have been having a very difficult time getting into the zone and set-up, as the opposition D is setting up a wall at the blue line and the goalie capturing too many of the shoot-ins resulting in easy turnovers, plus the opposition forwards have been aggresively pressuring our D once set up and causing many turn-overs.  BH(or whomever?) seems to be adjusting by trying a variety of different entry and PP strategies, including getting the puck moving a lot more than previously, which helps back off the defenders.  

 

Even with the many positives over the past several games, the results aren't really showing up so the PP is still an area of concern.  One thing that's a concern is the lack of one-timer shots, from any where.  I'm not sure the reason.  Perhaps its the players, perhaps its the passing, perhaps its the scheme, but we need to see more as they are quite effective.

 

Any thoughts on where the PP is currently at and similarities/differences to other teams?

[travel_dude]

I was going to start another thread along the lines of "Ineffective Systems vs. Poor Execution" which would cover a wide gamut of subjects but looking through the old threads there were many touching on similar subjects, including this one specific to the PP.  So, let's resurrect it and update the discussion to today.

 

Our PP is currently 30th in the NHL, I believe, so its gotten WORSE since the discussion earlier in the year.  Reading back over this thread there are many observations and the ones that stand out are that our primary focus has been trying to get shots through from the D at the point, with many getting blocked.  This is still true to a lessor extent.

 

The last few weeks we have been having a very difficult time getting into the zone and set-up, as the opposition D is setting up a wall at the blue line and the goalie capturing too many of the shoot-ins resulting in easy turnovers, plus the opposition forwards have been aggresively pressuring our D once set up and causing many turn-overs.  BH(or whomever?) seems to be adjusting by trying a variety of different entry and PP strategies, including getting the puck moving a lot more than previously, which helps back off the defenders.  

 

Even with the many positives over the past several games, the results aren't really showing up so the PP is still an area of concern.  One thing that's a concern is the lack of one-timer shots, from any where.  I'm not sure the reason.  Perhaps its the players, perhaps its the passing, perhaps its the scheme, but we need to see more as they are quite effective.

 

Any thoughts on where the PP is currently at and similarities/differences to other teams?

 

The one I will note is that the same system is being employed in Stockton with the same (lack of) success.

[AlbertaBoy12]

 

Any thoughts on where the PP is currently at and similarities/differences to other teams?

I would like to note that it seems zone entries are our biggest problems, we cant get through the neutral zone and when we do we get stood up at the blueline so we dump and chase, leading to the other team clearing the zone. We tend to not have alot of speed through the neutral zone on the pp, which gives the other team the chance to stand us up at their blueline, this also means when we dump it in we dont have the speed to retrieve it. The succesful entries we do have are generally one player dangling his way through the defenders, and then bumping it back right at the blueline which I dont find to be a successful way of doing things.

 

Other teams will generally try to back off the D with speed and then bump it back for a zone entry, or the entire team will attack with speed on a dump in so they can retrieve it. Personally I dont think we have enough movement on our PP either, alot of other teams move alot/ puck moves alot. If you look at Dallas/boston/washington that we have all played they are really good at entering the zone setting up, and then getting the defence to move so they can get shots through.

[MAC331]

Puck Possession is the key

[darth_henning]

Also

 

DUMP AND CHASE DOESN'T WORK!