Flames Power Play - Systemic Problems?

[travel_dude]

Johnny's PP goal against Arizona is an example of plays that score goals.  Monahan drew the defense in, and a deft little pass to Johnny set up a one-timer from the off wing.  Off wing shots don't give the goalie as much time to set up.

 

Sure, you can set up the point for a big slapper, but too many times sticks break (ferland, Gio, Wideman), or there are too many bodies in the way for a slapper to get through.  Dougie and Brodie have scored with wristers from the point, because they are well placed shots.  

[MAC331]

They still try forcing passes into the middle before setting up the lanes. They're making the wrong passes. Tonight, Ferland screened and Gio scored. We need big bodies in front and make it hard to see. Gaudreau is awesome, but still forces a few plays. If they're not going to put another net presence in, they need Monahan to work a screen and tip pucks. Hudler and Gaudreau are good enough to play keep away around the perimeter and work the points for shots. Our D are some of the best on O in the business. I think It just needs to be simplified.

OK I'm going to say it, Monahan needs to be way better than he has been.

[AlbertaBoy12]

OK I'm going to say it, Monahan needs to be way better than he has been.

Well to be honest it really doesnt help when our pp is gaudreau, colborne, mony with gio/hamilton, its basically like playing with 4 guys because colborne is useless on the pp. His zone entries, puck retrieval etc is all bad, and he doesnt even screen the goalie well in my opinion.

[travel_dude]

Well to be honest it really doesnt help when our pp is gaudreau, colborne, mony with gio/hamilton, its basically like playing with 4 guys because colborne is useless on the pp. His zone entries, puck retrieval etc is all bad, and he doesnt even screen the goalie well in my opinion.

 

Using Wideman on the PP is killing it too.  Unable to hold the zone in the final minutes.  Bobbling the puck.  Broken stick on a one-timer. Hamilton is the best option with Gio or Brodie.  Use Wideman, but use him sparingly, when Johnny is not on the ice.  

 

Monahan will be back to normal with a decent RW out there.  Give him some options to pass to, or a player that can pass to him besides Johnny.  He is being covered more than Johnny is.

[rickross]

It looks like they just keep looking for that perfect play every time on the PP, that or just keep over thinking a make one to many passes. Noticed recently they've been moving the puck much better but not generating a whole lot. Too much advertising the obvious cross crease or they keep forcing shots into plugged up lanes. They need other shooters than Gio, Wideman, JH or Monny to start creating chances

[cross16]

It looks like they just keep looking for that perfect play every time on the PP, that or just keep over thinking a make one to many passes. Noticed recently they've been moving the puck much better but not generating a whole lot. Too much advertising the obvious cross crease or they keep forcing shots into plugged up lanes. They need other shooters than Gio, Wideman, JH or Monny to start creating chances

 

This.

 

need more urgency and more shots, they pass up too many shooting opporutnities for 1 more pass. the problem with that on the 1st unit is the really havn't found someone who can be a solid net presence so they need to pass it in order to open up a lane or get the goalie moving. I think the 2nd unti with Ferland in front of the net is having a bit more success because they can shoot more often because of him distrubting that area.

[rickross]

After the loss in Edmonton this power play is even worse than I thought...

[420since1974]

Way too much passing, just SHOOT the puck.

[MAC331]

Way too much passing, just SHOOT the puck.

Agreed but hit the net.

[travel_dude]

The last two PP goals were scored by passing from behind the net to a guy in the slot.  Both set up by Johnny Hockey.  Strange how the smallest guy on the ice is behind the net.  For some reason, the goals seem to be coming from in close lately, and the PP has been the 3rd best in the league for January.

 

When the puck is fed back to the point for a shot, the two defending forwards only have to cover two guys. If it is played behind the net, the defenders have to decide to leave a player alone behind the net or let the person set up.  Either choice leaves a player uncovered down low.

 

Our defense seem to have better scoring luck on the rush.  If they insist on shooting from the point, I would suggest a shot-pass for a deflection/quick shot or keep it low for a deflection.  Too many torsos in the way of a rising shot.

[cross16]

The last two PP goals were scored by passing from behind the net to a guy in the slot.  Both set up by Johnny Hockey.  Strange how the smallest guy on the ice is behind the net.  For some reason, the goals seem to be coming from in close lately, and the PP has been the 3rd best in the league for January.

 

When the puck is fed back to the point for a shot, the two defending forwards only have to cover two guys. If it is played behind the net, the defenders have to decide to leave a player alone behind the net or let the person set up.  Either choice leaves a player uncovered down low.

 

Our defense seem to have better scoring luck on the rush.  If they insist on shooting from the point, I would suggest a shot-pass for a deflection/quick shot or keep it low for a deflection.  Too many torsos in the way of a rising shot.

 

Best place for him to be. No Dman with half a brain should follow a player behind the net on the PP becuase you are basically asking for either the net area or slot to become wide open. 

 

I think the Flames made some good changes but Ferland was the biggest. he didn't really do anything but they finally have a net presence now that other teams are having to respect and until then they didn't so the PK would just stay in their box becuase there was no one to guard in the front of the net. Putting someone there either allows the a screen or forces the PK to change coverage. I still think the PP needs to be more consistant but they are getting better.

[420since1974]

I agree that having a large body in front of the net during the PP is most helpful.

 

It's slowly improving, I think that they have at least one PP goal in each of the last 13 games.

[JTech780]

I think we may have fixed the PP, purely by accident. Get rid of Wideman for 20 games, give Hamilton top PP minutes and voila one fixed PP.

[travel_dude]

I think we may have fixed the PP, purely by accident. Get rid of Wideman for 20 games, give Hamilton top PP minutes and voila one fixed PP.

 

The two goals on the PP were both the result of a well place wrist shot.  Both players are known for them.  Wideman always attempted a one-timer.  Gio's goal was what I would like to see more often.  He skated in from the circle and had the option to shoot, pass or skate in even further.  The longer he had it, the more space was created for the others.  On another play, Dougie held on just a bit too long, but he was further out, so he could be defended easier.

 

I agree about using Dougie more and more on the PP.  That is his bread and butter.

[kehatch]

I think we may have fixed the PP, purely by accident. Get rid of Wideman for 20 games, give Hamilton top PP minutes and voila one fixed PP.

Which is what many of us have been saying most of the season. If it does work Hartley will look like the genius that fixed the problem.

[cross16]

Which is what many of us have been saying most of the season. If it does work Hartley will look like the genius that fixed the problem.

 

Exactly. It never should have come to this. I get why Hamilton didn't desrve PP time for the first month and a half of the season but after that there was no good reason that Wideman should have been seeing more PP time than Hamilton. I think a good coach has to be stubborn but there are times its going to hurt you and that was one of them for Hartley. 

 

Plus it also frustrated me that he seemed to want to use Wideman on the PP as a means to get Wideman going, but yet Hamilton has such good natural PP skills and yet he didn't use the PP to try and get him going.

[kehatch]

Agreed. Last season the mantra was "Always Earned, Never Given". Haven't seen much of that this season now that the coach has his guys. What we are seeing is a lot of trying to get the coaches guys going. We saw it with the goalies, the top line, a number of D, etc. Seems contradictory to always earned.

[robrob1974]

Agreed. Last season the mantra was "Always Earned, Never Given". Haven't seen much of that this season now that the coach has his guys. What we are seeing is a lot of trying to get the coaches guys going. We saw it with the goalies, the top line, a number of D, etc. Seems contradictory to always earned.

I kind of think we saw it last year and the year before too, just on a smaller scale. But that could be just my opinion, and it looks bigger this year because of the lack of success.

[MAC331]

I kind of think we saw it last year and the year before too, just on a smaller scale. But that could be just my opinion, and it looks bigger this year because of the lack of success.

When success is hard to come by it is the coaches job to try and get certain players playing like you expect them to play. These players make way to much money to park them on the bench. Last year no bodies had to be moved, this year advances the rebuild and I'm sure BT wants to move certain players and contracts if he can, hard to move some players if they are not producing where they are. We all should have expected some of this to go on.

[DirtyDeeds]

I have been thinking a lot about what is different this season from last season. Why are the Flames seemingly unable to perform at the level they were last season when on paper we made upgrades.

 

There is no clear answer just bits and pieces some of which may or may not have bearing... like:

New players to team adjusting ie Hamilton

Not as many call ups where the rookies bring new found energy.

Injuries - dare I even say this?

 

In the end the motivation seems to be missing a lot of the time except playing some of the top teams. We still seem to bring it when we play the top teams.

 

So maybe the Flames need something to rally around. Last year the injury to Gio was a rally point to keep the team on pace.

 

The Wideman thing could be that rally point. The injury to Brodie could also be that rally point. There are a few things that might be helpful.

[MAC331]

I have been thinking a lot about what is different this season from last season. Why are the Flames seemingly unable to perform at the level they were last season when on paper we made upgrades.

 

There is no clear answer just bits and pieces some of which may or may not have bearing... like:

New players to team adjusting ie Hamilton

Not as many call ups where the rookies bring new found energy.

Injuries - dare I even say this?

 

In the end the motivation seems to be missing a lot of the time except playing some of the top teams. We still seem to bring it when we play the top teams.

 

So maybe the Flames need something to rally around. Last year the injury to Gio was a rally point to keep the team on pace.

 

The Wideman thing could be that rally point. The injury to Brodie could also be that rally point. There are a few things that might be helpful.

I just put this in the Roster thread, last year's team was very fortunate (lucky) if you will. Every year will be different and they did have a difficult time gelling in the first part of this season. BH with all his experimenting to gain chemistry has IMO created inconsistency within this year's team.

All it takes some years is injuries and down performances by key players to wreck havoc on team play. I would love to see them find a rally reason but I would also like to see BH establish some consistency. Perhaps we see this when we know what we have remaining after the TDL.

[darth_henning]

I have been thinking a lot about what is different this season from last season. Why are the Flames seemingly unable to perform at the level they were last season when on paper we made upgrades.

 

There is no clear answer just bits and pieces some of which may or may not have bearing... like:

New players to team adjusting ie Hamilton

Not as many call ups where the rookies bring new found energy.

Injuries - dare I even say this?

 

In the end the motivation seems to be missing a lot of the time except playing some of the top teams. We still seem to bring it when we play the top teams.

 

So maybe the Flames need something to rally around. Last year the injury to Gio was a rally point to keep the team on pace.

 

The Wideman thing could be that rally point. The injury to Brodie could also be that rally point. There are a few things that might be helpful.

 

There's a lot of factors really. The main differences I have seen: 

 

 

1) Teams are taking us seriously this year. 

- teams saw us as a bottom feeder last year and let off a little, so we got some wins because of that. This year they know we knocked LA out and won a round so they're playing harder against us. (hence the lack of 3rd period come backs)

 

2) Huge drop-off in goaltending/Defence early on.

- Had we even won half our games the first month of the year we'd be sitting either in a playoff spot our just a couple point out and would have been in one most of the season. That early season flub may have cost us the season even after we started improving

 

3) Injuries

- Brodie missed much of the early season. Gio only got back to form around December. That's our top 2 D deflated for about 5 or 6 months

- Bouma was a key piece of our depth scoring last year, he's missed most of the season injured which also reduces our physicality on the front end

- Frolik also missed a decent amount of time which as our 2RW is an issue. 

 

4) Adapting to two new core players

- Frolik and Hamilton took a while to get going, and while they're looking good now it took time for them to get up to speed. Took a while for the team to adapt to them, and for them to adapt to the team. 

 

5) No repeat of career years. 

- Hudler and Wideman are the man culprets here, they had career numbers last year which really propelled us forward. They haven't been able to repeat this year. 

- Jooris has also been a disappointment after last year's early performance. He's trying but he's not putting it up anymore. 

 

6) No line stability

- this is due to a combination of the above factors, but how many people have played with Monahan/Gaudreau? How many people have played with Bennett? How many combinations of 3r and 4th lines have we had? Its really hard to develop chemistry with this constant juggling. 

 

7) Unproductive players filling slots. Raymond, Bollig, Jones (although a bit of a pass for the first month), Stajan, Colborne, Smid

 

 

On paper we upgraded over the summer. But those upgrades haven't offset the losses. 

 

Add the production of Frolik, Hamilton, and Bennett. 

 

Then subtract the losses from Bouma out injured, Hudler's decline, Wideman's decline, Glencross's points before he was traded, Jooris's inability to play at last year's level, Brodie's injury. 

 

An you'll find that we lost more than we gained. 

 

We're moving in the right direction since that number of injuries are unlikely to occur again, and we're unlikely to have so many payers drop off between seasons again. But it does mean that we're not going to match last year. 

[robrob1974]

I also believe our training camp could have something to do with it. Even though we chopped rosters down on schedule, we had a lot of extra guys at camp. I know it meant to create competition, but I wonder if that had something to do with line chemistry as well.

[MAC331]

I also believe our training camp could have something to do with it. Even though we chopped rosters down on schedule, we had a lot of extra guys at camp. I know it meant to create competition, but I wonder if that had something to do with line chemistry as well.

I have to say one of my main disappointments has been BH experimenting way to much with the forward lines. He starts off the season saying we got Bennett to be a C so that is where we want him and then he brings in Backlund to C the 2nd line. This move IMO has left him scrambling and trying to find other chemistry elsewhere.

Other factors enter into it, like Hudler being ineffective, Frolik taking some time to fit in and Bouma going down to injury.

On the back end Hamilton fitting in was also an experiment but Brodie going down and Wideman being ineffective caused a lot of uncertainy with the pairings and we still don't have a good mix.

 

Goaltending took awhile to come around and I think Ramo is giving us good goaltending now.

[cccsberg]

I have to say one of my main disappointments has been BH experimenting way to much with the forward lines. He starts off the season saying we got Bennett to be a C so that is where we want him and then he brings in Backlund to C the 2nd line. This move IMO has left him scrambling and trying to find other chemistry elsewhere.

Other factors enter into it, like Hudler being ineffective, Frolik taking some time to fit in and Bouma going down to injury.

On the back end Hamilton fitting in was also an experiment but Brodie going down and Wideman being ineffective caused a lot of uncertainy with the pairings and we still don't have a good mix.

 

Goaltending took awhile to come around and I think Ramo is giving us good goaltending now.

There has been a lot of line juggling, but for the most part it has been due to injuries or poor play of the said lines.  BH is still trying to find line mates for the top line and settling on Hudler seems the best but isn't a long term solution unless we re-sign Hudler.  

 

The biggest conundrum to me is playing Bennett at LW all season to date.  It seems from the outside that he was either overruled early season or decided LW was best for Bennett for now because of too many mistakes early on.  Bennett has been too good for 3rd line but perhaps not that C role yet.