Mark Giordano Wants $9mil

[CheersMan]

I'm not sure what this chart is supposed to prove other than there are a lot of players under 30.  Are the younger ones the good ones? Considering that most D don't hit their prime until 26, this chart seems to show a lot of players that aren't at their prime yet.

 

Gio's deal will not sink us.  Paying a player like Bouma $3m per season to score 6 goals will.  Keeping Engelland as a 7th D-man will.

Paying Raymond $3m to sit will.  Between Raymond, Engelland, Smid, and Jones, we are paying out over $13m for players that aren't doing enough for their usage and results.

 

Here, let me try and help you with understanding the defense man chart.   

 

Peak age is 25 years.  With each year passing 25 there is an additional 10% chance they will not be playing in the NHL.  At 33 years of age, 50% of the defenseman that were playing at 25 are no longer playing the game.  Yes, dmen peak at 26, but there are fewer of them.  Ignoring the risk of age, games missed and the inevitable decline does not justify a lengthy term with open cheque.

If we are offering a 6-8 year deal then yes it could sink us down the road. 

I was not advocating for a $3 Bouma, but do realize we would be weaker in many ways without him.  I’m not buying the WOW stat.

I agree with your assessment on Engelland, Raymond, Smid and Jones.  This is where the money needs to be freed up first if play does not improve.

[travel_dude]

Here, let me try and help you with understanding the defense man chart. 

 

Peak age is 25 years.  With each year passing 25 there is an additional 10% chance they will not be playing in the NHL.  At 33 years of age, 50% of the defenseman that were playing at 25 are no longer playing the game.  Yes, dmen peak at 26, but there are fewer of them.  Ignoring the risk of age, games missed and the inevitable decline does not justify a lengthy term with open cheque.

If we are offering a 6-8 year deal then yes it could sink us down the road. 

I was not advocating for a $3 Bouma, but do realize we would be weaker in many ways without him.  I’m not buying the WOW stat.

I agree with your assessment on Engelland, Raymond, Smid and Jones.  This is where the money needs to be freed up first if play does not improve.

 

• Raw numbers of defensemen do not explain the quality of players, just the numbers. 
• Guys with longer careers are generally better than those that have a few good ones. 
• Each year a number of players are lost in FA.  These are the lesser ones. 
• The cream rises to the top, so not every 26 year old goes on past age 30, let alone age 35. 
• Most of the players in the latter part of the chart are the good ones.

I don't advocate signing Gio to 6-8 years.  I would be Ok with signing Gio to 5 years, with a reducing value.  Gio at age 38 is at least as goog as Regehr (who had major injuries and is less mobile) or Timonen prior to his final year.

[Wrek]

If Gio is looking to cash in big because of last season, He can do that on a short term deal.

 

But if hes looking for 6-8 years and 8mil+ then let him walk. That contract will sink us one way or another in the future.

[travel_dude]

If Gio is looking to cash in big because of last season, He can do that on a short term deal.

 

But if hes looking for 6-8 years and 8mil+ then let him walk. That contract will sink us one way or another in the future.

 

Let him walk?  At worst you trade him for a landslide of assets.  If he walked, that would be BT's swan song.

[Flame111]

I am glad to see this topic getting a good discussion. 
 

Gio is a great captain, a great player and I love him but this team can NOT make the same mistake it did with Iggy, which is paying top dollar and term for a player who is turning 33 in the FIRST year of his contract. 

 

This will be BT's make or break move. You have to stay real. A long term contract of 5 years at a 7 million cap hit in a declining cap era is a precarious move. Gio will be 38 at the end of that deal. The Flames won a round without Gio already. 

 

I hate to say it again as I did in the other thread but this is his contract year. The Flames can not make the mistake of the untradeable player again. If things can not fall in place BT has to do what is best for the team as a whole long-term which is either stand fast so the Cap Numbers work long term or check the trade market...  

[The_People1]

I am glad to see this topic getting a good discussion. 

 

Gio is a great captain, a great player and I love him but this team can NOT make the same mistake it did with Iggy, which is paying top dollar and term for a player who is turning 33 in the FIRST year of his contract. 

 

This will be BT's make or break move. You have to stay real. A long term contract of 5 years at a 7 million cap hit in a declining cap era is a precarious move. Gio will be 38 at the end of that deal. The Flames won a round without Gio already. 

 

I hate to say it again as I did in the other thread but this is his contract year. The Flames can not make the mistake of the untradeable player again. If things can not fall in place BT has to do what is best for the team as a whole long-term which is either stand fast so the Cap Numbers work long term or check the trade market...  

 

The team is not in the same situation as the waning Iginla years.  Back then, we were no longer a Cup contender but management refused to face reality.  They kept dreaming the dream and kept hanging onto the idea they can get back to the Cup finals with a good run.

 

Fast forward to today, we have an emerging young core where the ceiling has not been defined yet.  We can afford to hang onto Giordano for the ride.  Heck, he will drive us there.  We can even bring back Iginla on a 4th line role and we may still have a legitimate shot at the Cup in 2 or 3 years.

[DirtyDeeds]

I like your comment but doesn't it seem ridiculous. What kind of alter-world are we now living in when a mere hockey player is making $6 - $8 million a season and we think it is good; while some brilliant scientist researching cures for disease is barely scraping out a living. It tells us how askew our values are these days.

Comparing a scientist salary to a hockey players is an exercise of futility.  Then to say we have lost our values makes no sense. People have always spent money on entertainment. It is natural to pay those who entertain us best.. big money.

 

This explains why you are in the NHL Flames forums and not the Cancer research forums.

[DirtyDeeds]

I am glad to see this topic getting a good discussion. 

 

Gio is a great captain, a great player and I love him but this team can NOT make the same mistake it did with Iggy, which is paying top dollar and term for a player who is turning 33 in the FIRST year of his contract. 

 

This will be BT's make or break move. You have to stay real. A long term contract of 5 years at a 7 million cap hit in a declining cap era is a precarious move. Gio will be 38 at the end of that deal. The Flames won a round without Gio already. 

 

I hate to say it again as I did in the other thread but this is his contract year. The Flames can not make the mistake of the untradeable player again. If things can not fall in place BT has to do what is best for the team as a whole long-term which is either stand fast so the Cap Numbers work long term or check the trade market...  

Flames failure was not by paying iggy good dollars when he was 33. The flames failed to surround our franchise winger with suitable talent. in particular a center who he could play well with.

 

Just because we failed to do that has very little to do with how much we should pay Gio our new Captain, and core player.

[DirtyDeeds]

Here, let me try and help you with understanding the defense man chart. 

 

Peak age is 25 years.  With each year passing 25 there is an additional 10% chance they will not be playing in the NHL.  At 33 years of age, 50% of the defenseman that were playing at 25 are no longer playing the game.  Yes, dmen peak at 26, but there are fewer of them.  Ignoring the risk of age, games missed and the inevitable decline does not justify a lengthy term with open cheque.

If we are offering a 6-8 year deal then yes it could sink us down the road. 

I was not advocating for a $3 Bouma, but do realize we would be weaker in many ways without him.  I’m not buying the WOW stat.

I agree with your assessment on Engelland, Raymond, Smid and Jones.  This is where the money needs to be freed up first if play does not improve.

this is unfair. We do not know how long Gio will play and we dont know how well he will play. He started in the nhl late in his career so why not have a later career. Tjere is no signs yet he is declining,. in fact quite the opposite.

 

We do know he is close to Norris caliber now. He should be paid a respectful wage accordingly.

 

If we were offering open chequebook as you claim to fear, he would have been signed already.

[kehatch]

this is unfair. We do not know how long Gio will play and we dont know how well he will play. He started in the nhl late in his career so why not have a later career. Tjere is no signs yet he is declining,. in fact quite the opposite.

 

We do know he is close to Norris caliber now. He should be paid a respectful wage accordingly.

 

If we were offering open chequebook as you claim to fear, he would have been signed already.

 

Although I agree with most of the principle of what you are saying, I do think age is a consideration.  He has missed close to 20 games a season in the last three full seasons of play.  Plus he missed all of the playoffs this season.  

 

Durability plays a huge role in NHL success.  A lot of players are less durable as they get older.  The man games lost is one of my biggest concerns about paying Giordano too much term.  

[CheersMan]

this is unfair. We do not know how long Gio will play and we dont know how well he will play. He started in the nhl late in his career so why not have a later career. Tjere is no signs yet he is declining,. in fact quite the opposite.

 

We do know he is close to Norris caliber now. He should be paid a respectful wage accordingly.

 

If we were offering open chequebook as you claim to fear, he would have been signed already.

 

I’m not trying to be unfair, I’m simply throwing caution into the wind.  Again, I want Gio on my team, I want to pay him fairly. 

 

I’m sure Gio would like to see this as being his last contract, and that is what his agent should be negotiating for.  A Gio making fair market value gets $8-9 this coming season.  A retirement contract could be 8 additional years plus the one still owed.  That means 9 years down the road Gio could still be making $4-4.5.  Fill in the numbers and that’s a lot of loot, likely Gio’s starting point when it comes to negotiations.  I give a 25 yr old Gio that contract but not a 33 year old one.  If we could give Gio a 4-5 yr extension then go year to year, that would be ideal. 

 

I’m pretty confident a good deal will be struck by all because BB and BT have talked openly about how term can strangle you down the road.  How long did it take TML to regret the much younger 8 yr Kessell deal or 7 yr Phaneuf deal?

[jjgallow]

I’m not trying to be unfair, I’m simply throwing caution into the wind.  

 

Better that than peeing into the wind, I guess.

[redfire11]

I would like to see a five year deal

8 7 6 5 4 mil

average 6 mil a year.

Makes him our highest paid player and at 38 he is only making 4 mil. We can decide then.

[Flame111]

The team is not in the same situation as the waning Iginla years.  Back then, we were no longer a Cup contender but management refused to face reality.  They kept dreaming the dream and kept hanging onto the idea they can get back to the Cup finals with a good run.

 

Fast forward to today, we have an emerging young core where the ceiling has not been defined yet.  We can afford to hang onto Giordano for the ride.  Heck, he will drive us there.  We can even bring back Iginla on a 4th line role and we may still have a legitimate shot at the Cup in 2 or 3 years.

 

We are all long time posters here so we can be mature about our disagreements. DD's sentimentality aside. I honestly believe what we have at this point can take us into a long Cup Contender window BUT the Gio contract can offset that long term and it is nothing more than Cap Management. It is nothing more than being rational on the numbers. 

If offered a straight up trade of the Oilers Hall, RNH and Ebs for Johnny, Monny and Sam B - I don't do it. I honestly think our D with Hamilton now is one of the top D's in the NHL. Goaltending is a question mark but the rest of the team looks solid and we have prospects chomping at the bit. 

If there was no team Cap I would say pay Gio 10 million / I don't care but rationally from a strict hockey perspective you can anticipate Gio's decline at age 35 (at the latest) from the top pairing to the second pairing and then as "Cheersman's" charts have illustrated then you are at age 36-38 with that Cap hit that will likely have him playing bottom pairing? 

You can't do that. We will have D prospects pushing for the line-up at that point in time... I do not want a short 1-2 year Cup window, not when we have almost miraculously achieved such a rare combination of top young players in their early 20s...

 

Let's go back in time and I think we were all thrilled with Sutter signing Iggy, Neuf, Regehr and Kipper that year but lets learn from history. To get the numbers he wanted he had to throw in NMC's and NTC's. Neuf's contract was not good and we were lucky in a sense to trade him before his NTC kicked in but the return should have been better. The Iginla trade was a joke. Management's inability to see where the Flames truly were was painful, they were not a team on the rise but one on the decline. 

Big contracts reduce trade value. 

I want Gio on this team. But a long term contract with big dollars and an anticipated normal decline in his play could have us with a bottom pairing 7 million dollar D man in 3 years. That can't happen because now we are talking about a Cup or not.

Personally, I am really pumped about next year. This team reminds me of a young Blackhawks, if they continue to improve, we have not seen the top of our young player's game yet but Monny, Johnny and Sam B are going to cost in the future.   

 

[Flame111]

Oh and by the way. 

 

Does anyone want to list the NHL D men who are 38 or older? 

 

[The_People1]

We are all long time posters here so we can be mature about our disagreements. DD's sentimentality aside. I honestly believe what we have at this point can take us into a long Cup Contender window BUT the Gio contract can offset that long term and it is nothing more than Cap Management. It is nothing more than being rational on the numbers. 

If offered a straight up trade of the Oilers Hall, RNH and Ebs for Johnny, Monny and Sam B - I don't do it. I honestly think our D with Hamilton now is one of the top D's in the NHL. Goaltending is a question mark but the rest of the team looks solid and we have prospects chomping at the bit. 

 

Let's go back in time and I think we were all thrilled with Sutter signing Iggy, Neuf, Regehr and Kipper that year but lets learn from history. To get the numbers he wanted he had to throw in NMC's and NTC's. Neuf's contract was not good and we were lucky in a sense to trade him before his NTC kicked in but the return should have been better. The Iginla trade was a joke. Management's inability to see where the Flames truly were was painful, they were not a team on the rise but one on the decline. 

I want Gio on this team. But a long term contract with big dollars and an anticipated normal decline in his play could have us with a bottom pairing 7 million dollar D man in 3 years. That can't happen because now we are talking about a Cup or not.

Personally, I am really pumped about next year. This team reminds me of a young Blackhawks, if they continue to improve, we have not seen the top of our young player's game yet but Monny, Johnny and Sam B are going to cost in the future.   

 

 

Not sure how my response was immature lol, but although i understand where you are coming from, again, i don't agree.

 

The Flames are trending towards having a Cup window open but the window hasn't opened yet.  With Giordano, the window may open in 2-years.  Without Giordano (meaning trade him for younger pieces), then the window may not open for another 4-years, if even.

[Flame111]

Not sure how my response was immature lol, but although i understand where you are coming from, again, i don't agree.

 

The Flames are trending towards having a Cup window open but the window hasn't opened yet.  With Giordano, the window may open in 2-years.  Without Giordano (meaning trade him for younger pieces), then the window may not open for another 4-years, if even.

 

I think the window could potentially open next year, that is how pumped I am on our line-up at the moment  

Cody Franson is still out there, Hudler could be Captain and we still have prospects. All I am saying is that Gio with his injury history and his age may or may not be part of the picture for the Cup window and it comes down to his contract... 

Certainly the Flames are helped by him but a long term high dollar contract can hinder the team. Really not saying anything new here, just echoing what others have said...  

 

[The_People1]

I think the window could potentially open next year, that is how pumped I am on our line-up at the moment  

Cody Franson is still out there, Hudler could be Captain and we still have prospects. All I am saying is that Gio with his injury history and his age may or may not be part of the picture for the Cup window and it comes down to his contract... 

Certainly the Flames are helped by him but a long term high dollar contract can hinder the team. Really not saying anything new here, just echoing what others have said...

 

I agree that in 5-years, we may be faced with a 3rd pairing Giordano at $8-mil but between now and then, the window to win a Cup will open for us.  Therefore, we should take this path and get Giordano signed rather than trade him and risk the window never opening for us at all.

[travel_dude]

I think the window could potentially open next year, that is how pumped I am on our line-up at the moment  

Cody Franson is still out there, Hudler could be Captain and we still have prospects. All I am saying is that Gio with his injury history and his age may or may not be part of the picture for the Cup window and it comes down to his contract... 

Certainly the Flames are helped by him but a long term high dollar contract can hinder the team. Really not saying anything new here, just echoing what others have said...  

 

 

I share your optimism.  Having Gio in the lineup is key to conversations, though.  We can say we made the playoffs without him, but we may have beat the Ducks with him.  As I said elsewhere, cap management is key this and next summer.  Get rid of the deadwood, and the cap doesn't look as bad.  Turn over the middling guys with guys that will compete harder with better skills. 

 

Next year, we get relief with two expiring goalie contracts; if either is good enough, they get an extension.

 

You asked about older D-men?

Mark Streit - 37

Markov - 36

Campbell - 36

Beauchemin - 35

Andy Green - 32

Dan Boyle - 38

Chara - 38

 

There is a pile of D-men playing at a high level at age 31+.  I don't share your belief that Gio will tail off drastically over the next 2-3 years.  If he doesn't have a freak injury, his number could continue to be Norris-ish for more than a few years.  Brodie has helped, and if paired with Hamilton, that could even help more.  Hio plays hard-nosed, but it wasn't hits that put him out, it was accidents, like a broken foot or a torn bicep on a weird play.

[PokernHockey]

I agree that in 5-years, we may be faced with a 3rd pairing Giordano at $8-mil but between now and then, the window to win a Cup will open for us.  Therefore, we should take this path and get Giordano signed rather than trade him and risk the window never opening for us at all.

 

If you sign Gio for $8mm next year, and Monahan and Gaudreau to $6.75mm contracts (average of the Saad/Tarasanko contract hits which are the best current comparibles for what they can probably command next year), given what we have today you have 8 forwards signed for 30mm and 6 defenseman signed for 30mm. that means that you have 11 million to sign 2 goalies 4 forwards to ice a roster as well as your three spares, so 9 players total. I think it is safe to assume that your two goalies in any given year will likely command 4mm or more between them, which means you have an average of 789,770 per player left.

 

From the flames roster as per generalfanager this does not include:

• Russell
• Jones
• Hudler
• Colborne
• Jooris
• Shore
• Bouma
• Grandlund
• Ferland
• Byron

I underlined players I think most would agree that losing them would hurt the team’s cup chances. If you sign him to that contract you likely lose most of these guys and replace them with prospects or 4^th line guys.

 

To give you an idea of the level of player 800,000 gets you, the only guys currently signed in the flames system in 2016-17 who make less that are:

• Hunter Smith
• Garnet Hathaway
• Austin Carroll
• Brett Kulak
• Ryan Culkin
• Keegan Kanzig

 

Granlund is the only one of the expiring contracts after next season that fits under that watermark.

 

I would argue that it is not as simple as "sign Gio, have cup window for 5 years" even under the premise of his play staying superstar level for that time.

 

Granted, a year later we can afford it much better once a bunch of bad contracts come off the books, but if your going to make the blanket statement you did, you have to be prepared for the contingency that nobody else wants Smid at 3.5mm all that much either. So likely the only way you move most of the bad contracts is by paying someone to take them. Doing that means your not risking it closing in 5 years, your slamming it shut since you won't have the same volume of prospects to hopefully find guys who can replace current players from.

 

Gio is one of my favorite players, but if you're being logical rather then letting emotions dictate your projections you have to assume at best you have 3-5 years before a contract over $7mm becomes an anchor pulling the team down. I remember people making the argument's for keeping Iggy and Kipper since they were also clearly going to be able to maintain their superstar level's of play into their late 30's, and look how that turned out. And that is ignoring the fact that he has a history of injuries, which you have to assume will get worse as he ages, and there is no guarantee that he can come back from the torn tendons as anything more then a shadow of his former self... so there is a real risk it is a bad contract on day one.

 

Unless he wants to sign a hometown discount I believe the return we can get for him will help the team far more then signing him to a 8mm contract would.

[PokernHockey]

There is a pile of D-men playing at a high level at age 31+.  I don't share your belief that Gio will tail off drastically over the next 2-3 years.  If he doesn't have a freak injury, his number could continue to be Norris-ish for more than a few years.  Brodie has helped, and if paired with Hamilton, that could even help more.  Hio plays hard-nosed, but it wasn't hits that put him out, it was accidents, like a broken foot or a torn bicep on a weird play.

 

Geo hasn't played more then 64 games in the last 4 years. At what point do you consider it to be a trend? Also, if he play is because of Brodie or Hamilton, it doesn't make a lot of sense to pay him for what other players bring to the table. England's play was also brought up by Brodie.

[travel_dude]

Geo hasn't played more then 64 games in the last 4 years. At what point do you consider it to be a trend? Also, if he play is because of Brodie or Hamilton, it doesn't make a lot of sense to pay him for what other players bring to the table. England's play was also brought up by Brodie.

 

You do remember that there was a lockout in 2012/13?

[Flame111]

 

If you sign Gio for $8mm next year, and Monahan and Gaudreau to $6.75mm contracts (average of the Saad/Tarasanko contract hits which are the best current comparibles for what they can probably command next year), given what we have today you have 8 forwards signed for 30mm and 6 defenseman signed for 30mm. that means that you have 11 million to sign 2 goalies 4 forwards to ice a roster as well as your three spares, so 9 players total. I think it is safe to assume that your two goalies in any given year will likely command 4mm or more between them, which means you have an average of 789,770 per player left.

 

From the flames roster as per generalfanager this does not include:

• Russell
• Jones
• Hudler
• Colborne
• Jooris
• Shore
• Bouma
• Grandlund
• Ferland
• Byron

I underlined players I think most would agree that losing them would hurt the team’s cup chances. If you sign him to that contract you likely lose most of these guys and replace them with prospects or 4^th line guys.

 

To give you an idea of the level of player 800,000 gets you, the only guys currently signed in the flames system in 2016-17 who make less that are:

• Hunter Smith
• Garnet Hathaway
• Austin Carroll
• Brett Kulak
• Ryan Culkin
• Keegan Kanzig

 

Granlund is the only one of the expiring contracts after next season that fits under that watermark.

 

I would argue that it is not as simple as "sign Gio, have cup window for 5 years" even under the premise of his play staying superstar level for that time.

 

Granted, a year later we can afford it much better once a bunch of bad contracts come off the books, but if your going to make the blanket statement you did, you have to be prepared for the contingency that nobody else wants Smid at 3.5mm all that much either. So likely the only way you move most of the bad contracts is by paying someone to take them. Doing that means your not risking it closing in 5 years, your slamming it shut since you won't have the same volume of prospects to hopefully find guys who can replace current players from.

 

Gio is one of my favorite players, but if you're being logical rather then letting emotions dictate your projections you have to assume at best you have 3-5 years before a contract over $7mm becomes an anchor pulling the team down. I remember people making the argument's for keeping Iggy and Kipper since they were also clearly going to be able to maintain their superstar level's of play into their late 30's, and look how that turned out. And that is ignoring the fact that he has a history of injuries, which you have to assume will get worse as he ages, and there is no guarantee that he can come back from the torn tendons as anything more then a shadow of his former self... so there is a real risk it is a bad contract on day one.

 

Unless he wants to sign a hometown discount I believe the return we can get for him will help the team far more then signing him to a 8mm contract would.

 

+1 for this post - I echo the sentiment...

Cup Teams need depth / even assuming elite play for Gio till he is 38 the rest of the team needs to be filled out. 

[cccsberg]

I think the window could potentially open next year, that is how pumped I am on our line-up at the moment  

Cody Franson is still out there, Hudler could be Captain and we still have prospects. All I am saying is that Gio with his injury history and his age may or may not be part of the picture for the Cup window and it comes down to his contract... 

Certainly the Flames are helped by him but a long term high dollar contract can hinder the team. Really not saying anything new here, just echoing what others have said...  

 

I would have to agree the Cup window could potentially open this year, assuming Bennett comes in and does what we think he can and Ferland can stick with the club and contribute.  Look, last year we got beat by the Ducks but we've made significant, major upgrades of two Top-pairing excellent D in Hamilton and Gio(non-injured), a scoring possession monster in Frolik and the two aforementioned with a full year under their belts (and healthy). That's not to mention others who are chomping at the bit and may may the team pushing out some vets (e.g. Poirier, Arnold...).  At the same time Anaheim has stood pat (or declined), and they were an Overtime goal away from the likely Cup.  

 

I love Gio and think we need to sign him, but the deal needs to work for all parties.  Come on Gio and BT, let's get 'er done!

[cccsberg]

If you sign Gio for $8mm next year, and Monahan and Gaudreau to $6.75mm contracts (average of the Saad/Tarasanko contract hits which are the best current comparibles for what they can probably command next year), given what we have today you have 8 forwards signed for 30mm and 6 defenseman signed for 30mm. that means that you have 11 million to sign 2 goalies 4 forwards to ice a roster as well as your three spares, so 9 players total. I think it is safe to assume that your two goalies in any given year will likely command 4mm or more between them, which means you have an average of 789,770 per player left.

 

From the flames roster as per generalfanager this does not include:

• Russell
• Jones
• Hudler
• Colborne
• Jooris
• Shore
• Bouma
• Grandlund
• Ferland
• Byron

I underlined players I think most would agree that losing them would hurt the team’s cup chances. If you sign him to that contract you likely lose most of these guys and replace them with prospects or 4^th line guys.

 

To give you an idea of the level of player 800,000 gets you, the only guys currently signed in the flames system in 2016-17 who make less that are:

• Hunter Smith
• Garnet Hathaway
• Austin Carroll
• Brett Kulak
• Ryan Culkin
• Keegan Kanzig

 

Granlund is the only one of the expiring contracts after next season that fits under that watermark.

 

I would argue that it is not as simple as "sign Gio, have cup window for 5 years" even under the premise of his play staying superstar level for that time.

 

Granted, a year later we can afford it much better once a bunch of bad contracts come off the books, but if your going to make the blanket statement you did, you have to be prepared for the contingency that nobody else wants Smid at 3.5mm all that much either. So likely the only way you move most of the bad contracts is by paying someone to take them. Doing that means your not risking it closing in 5 years, your slamming it shut since you won't have the same volume of prospects to hopefully find guys who can replace current players from.

 

Gio is one of my favorite players, but if you're being logical rather then letting emotions dictate your projections you have to assume at best you have 3-5 years before a contract over $7mm becomes an anchor pulling the team down. I remember people making the argument's for keeping Iggy and Kipper since they were also clearly going to be able to maintain their superstar level's of play into their late 30's, and look how that turned out. And that is ignoring the fact that he has a history of injuries, which you have to assume will get worse as he ages, and there is no guarantee that he can come back from the torn tendons as anything more then a shadow of his former self... so there is a real risk it is a bad contract on day one.

 

Unless he wants to sign a hometown discount I believe the return we can get for him will help the team far more then signing him to a 8mm contract would.

The biggest problem is in the timing. If Gio doesn't re-sign before the season BT will be forced to trade him at the TDL or risk losing him for nothing. There would be a possibility of him signing after the season, after Jone's contract drops off but that would be risky in the extreme.

As I've said before, the Flames biggest problem right now is excess vets and they need to drop or trade 2-3 NOW! That would likely be Jones and two of Engelland, Smid, Wideman or Russell. Preferably the first two. If that means dumping them for low picks, so be it, we have replacements who are probably even better.

Once three are gone signing Gio won't be a problem. Look at Chicago, they've had to dump players to keep their core, and have done it twice and come back to win Cups twice. It can be done.