conundrumed Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 I was over there in the "let's get Kovalchuk" thread and had a long diatribe formulated and thought, "we all need to look at this". So I'm sorry if I'm wrong. My question is, do we Canadians have a deeply, deeply seeded unlike and distrust of Russian-born players? The 2nd part is, if you gave that even a maybe, will it ever go away? They are as ingrained in hockey as we are, it's a climate thing. But Ovechkin, Tarasenko and all? That's some fantastic hockey. Are we in denial, rather than celebrating likeness? Too much rivalry due to 1972's introduction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 There was dislike/even hatred after '72. When Russians were allowed to come to the NHL that faded. After the KHL started up & Russians (& a few other Euros) broke contracts to return to Mother Russia to play for big rubles that again added to the distrust. Teams would draft even the best Russian born players later for fear they might not come to NA. With the colapse of the ruble many want to come back to the secure $s of the NHL but there will be that lingering doubt that they'll be defected players again if the Russian economy recovers. Many teams have seen that behavior. I think last year the Jets alone had 5 defected players & Burmistrov started to talk about coming back shortly after the ruble decreased in value. Kovalchuk only talked return after that crumble. Mentioning the KHL as an option was a favorite tactic for agents of Russian players. The trust that was built has serious breaches. If you have 2 fairly similar players to sign just the odds say the NA player will be more likely to fulfill his end of the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 conundrumed, on 27 Mar 2015 - 13:47, said: I was over there in the "let's get Kovalchuk" thread and had a long diatribe formulated and thought, "we all need to look at this". So I'm sorry if I'm wrong. My question is, do we Canadians have a deeply, deeply seeded unlike and distrust of Russian-born players? DEEP seeded unlike and distrust : Maybe with the 45-50 and older crowd...There was a massive political backdrop that also went into hating 'commies' for that generation and older... pre-iron curtain coming down. That worked beautifully to fuel the patriotism behind all the competition between the Summit Series and the '87 Canada Cup... The trickle down effect to the younger generations post iron-curtain, however, is all the residual disrespect and stereotypes planted by the previous generation thru media and getting it perpetuated and recycled now... The disdain from 40 and under crowd i would guess is more of a superficial dislike based more on competition history, without the political fear and distrust of the past.. conundrumed, on 27 Mar 2015 - 13:47, said: The 2nd part is, if you gave that even a maybe, will it ever go away? Yes. Time. Probably another generation... Altho Putin probably isn't helping expedite the process. conundrumed, on 27 Mar 2015 - 13:47, said: They are as ingrained in hockey as we are, it's a climate thing. But Ovechkin, Tarasenko and all? That's some fantastic hockey. Are we in denial, rather than celebrating likeness? Too much rivalry due to 1972's introduction? Denial? I guess this is part where the other thread needs to be read?The Russian star players have earned their due... If anyone wishes to deny them as great players, then what can ya do... Doesn't really matter what those people think.. won't change their dominance over the majority of the rest of the league on the ice. I assume people are trying to point to Radulov or Voynov or someone else to disparage the whole country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted March 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 If anyone wishes to deny them as great players, then what can ya do... Doesn't really matter what those people think.. won't change their dominance over the majority of the rest of the league on the ice. I assume people are trying to point to Radulov or Voynov or someone else to disparage the whole country? Moreso painting Kovalchuk in an ill light. Which led me to think about the avg fan's feelings about Russians in general. Outside of Datsyuk of course. Because he will own you lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khrox Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 I am a first generation Canadian, but my parents and grandparents were Russian. So I don't have that distrust based on the culture thing. And most people I know who watch hockey don't have a distaste for Euro's/Russians as a whole, but more just the style of play. North American hockey tends to have a lot more of the crash and bang, physical style, while European/Russian hockey tends to focus far more heavily on the finesse side of things. That is heavily due to the rink sizes. NA rinks with a few exceptions, none of which are at the NHL (And I don't believe that any are at the AHL) level, are one size, while internationally hockey uses the IIHF standard rinks which are a different size. I think the biggest issue is the worry of European skill adapting to the smaller rink sizes and increased physicality of North American hockey. The "Russian Factor" (Russians being a bigger flight risk/in it for the money) is overplayed I think. It might take a while to work that out, and that is more because we have to deal with agents using it as a negotiating tactic (whether or not the player would actually leave. I doubt players like Datsyuk, Malkin, or Ovechkin leave straight up for money without other factors taking place heavily as well). And then you get the "bad eggs" per se, the Radulov's, Burmistrov's and the such (Also, like Edmonton last summer was it? Where they had like 5-6 players go to Russia instead, though I think they may have all been Free Agents) who do it and give a bad reputation to every other Russian (and East European) player. What Kovalchuk did wasn't technically illegal, but it definitely falls into a moral gray area. And while finishing that monstrosity of a contract would have made it damn near impossible to play again in Russia at a higher level, I'm sure there could have been some way of at least finishing the year in NA while working with the organization on finding a way to allow him to leave the contract early (or even put the contract on hiatus, and that if he comes back to the NHL, he has to go to NJ for however many years, or something. Probably could have worked out something with NJ and the NHL big wigs). Though with the NHL still unsure of allowing their players to go to the next Olympics, that might cause a lot of issues with a lot of Europeans (and even some Canadian's/American's finding some other way so they could still play) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 I don't know about dislike, but I personally do believe that I have some level of distrust about Russian players. The NHL is a business first and foremost, and that means all decisions must be judged on a risk vs. reward basis. Just the simple fact that the KHL exists means that there is more of a risk that a Russian player signs there, compared to a player from Grande Prairie, AB. If you have 2 exactly identical players in skill, size, age, potential, etc., but one was American and one was Russian, then you would have to go with the American if only because he's less of a flight risk. Russians are lucky in that way because if they feel they are being mistreated or they feel that they can get a better role immediately elsewhere, they can sign in Russia for a fairly substantial amount of pay (with less taxes to boot). Because they already have a cultural affinity for the place, they are naturally more comfortable with that line of action than someone who was raised in Minnesota. So yes, I would have to say that I would definitely be, if nothing else, more wary of a Russian player. If he's playing on my team then I would treat him as well as any other teammate, and heck I might even love the player as a person, but fact is I have to be careful not to offend players with escape routes and I don't want to lose out on talent for no good reason. I'm not a Don Cherry and I would never pass up on a clearly better player simply based on nationality, but if there's two guys at the draft table available who are comparable but one's Canadian and the other was born in Moscow, you bet I'm going to be thinking real long and hard on that one. At some point the difference in talent is just too much to make up (i.e. Tarasenko vs. Derek Forbort, Joey Hishon and Austin Watson) and you have to take the better player, but it's tough to judge when exactly that point is. That being said, if it's free agency or trade deadline? Unless the guy has a history of being a lazy player and a poor teammate, I could care less what nationality he is. I need a guy who can play, his birthplace be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 If i'm not mistaken, Rushan Rafikov is the first Russian the Flames have drafted since 2002. That's a long time to not draft from one of the top hockey nations in the world. The Flames have no been kind to Russians and Oleg Saprykin didn't get fair treatment here either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khrox Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 People, you are right. But lucky for us, this is a completely different team all around. From Management, to coaching to the players on the ice. How many players on our team were with the flames in '02? Hell, how many players on our team were even playing at the pro level in '02. Rafikov seems like he genuinely wants to be here, and that is a good sign. As long as we give him a fair shot (which we have with all our prospects so far [short of Baer which is a whole different debate]) I don't see a huge problem with that being an issue anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 If i'm not mistaken, Rushan Rafikov is the first Russian the Flames have drafted since 2002. That's a long time to not draft from one of the top hockey nations in the world. The Flames have no been kind to Russians and Oleg Saprykin didn't get fair treatment here either. We really haven't been good to them. Historically. Ever. Going back to you-know-who. Some of that may have been justified in the past but we have to move forward. I'm glad we drafted Rafikov. Maybe it's too early to use up first round picks on them, but picking up Russians on the chip in later rounds makes sense to me. At that point it can be worth the gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartbreaker Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 We really haven't been good to them. Historically. Ever. Going back to you-know-who. Ooh! Sounds like a Who Dat?! Carty, would you be willing to relenquish the keys to the white room (with black curtains) for an unforgettable evening with Anya Knees? She's been busy keeping the boys in shape, but for one lucky fan... Love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 She's not Russian..... Is she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 We really haven't been good to them. Historically. Ever. Going back to you-know-who. Some of that may have been justified in the past but we have to move forward. I'm glad we drafted Rafikov. Maybe it's too early to use up first round picks on them, but picking up Russians on the chip in later rounds makes sense to me. At that point it can be worth the gamble. I dunno , i think Makarov had a pretty decent run here? i for get the name of the one that bolted back to the KHL, but thats when we tended to give up on them. Oleg didnt exactly light it up when he left , and the return (Langkow) was definitely an upgrade. But agreed we definitely have avoided them since it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartbreaker Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 She's not Russian..... Is she? You'll have to forgive me, JJ... Anya has insisted on the red room with iron curtains. Love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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