The_People1 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 The Leafs just fired head coach Randy Carlyle and Phil Kessel blew up on the media when it was suggested the firing may have been his fault. Former Leafs coach Ron Wilson also painted Phil Kessel as a player who is/was uncoachable. So with that said, could Phil Kessel be available now and if so, how much? Should the Flames be interested? He's 27-years-old and have scored at a point-per-game pace for 3.5 seasons and counting. RW. RH Shot. 6'-0" - 202 lbs. The Flames need RWs and RH Shots. The Flames are coming out of a rebuild so Kessel's age is a perfect fit as the Flames eventually contend for the playoffs and the Cup in about 2 to 4 years. The Flames have a solid core with solid leaders and a defined culture already. Kessel could conceivably come to Calgary and quietly do his thing without being bothered. All that and Burke once traded for him in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis1891 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I can't imagine he'd come cheap. I couldn't even guess on what it'd take to pry him out of the leafs, but it'd probably leave our cupboards barren. I've heard, over the past few years, that he's difficult to coach. Wether it's true or not, I'd rather not sell our future to take that chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Wouldn't touch him at any cost. It's not a talent thing at all as he is one of the most talented players in the NHL but I've read so much more about his attitude and work ethic and he is not a guy who can lead a team and at his salary he needs to lead a team you can't afford him for him to just be a secondary piece. Plus he would still be in a hockey market which I think is a poor fit for him. I just don't think a team can win with Kessel as one if it's main pieces so add in the fact your going to have to pay huge for him I would pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Not a hope in hell we touch this clown, he would be a cancer in the dressing room. Plus many forget Trevling is the GM not Burke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreckening Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 No thanks. Whether you choose to believe the media on Kessel or not the simple fact is that he is a floater. I've watched enough games to see this is evidently clear. No doubt he is talented and its scary to think what he could do if he put in the effort game in and game out but he doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidKappa Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I wouldn't trade for him at all. But if it came to it I would offer up Matt Stajan, Ian White, Jamal Mayers and Nik Hagman. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Absolutely. Attitude issues are almost always overblown. He is in a bad environment where he is the guy. I think he would be fine in Calgary. How many didn't want Seguin because of his attitude issues? This is the ultimate buy low scenario if they are actually moving him. He would be expensive. But I can live with that. Baertschi, our first, and Russell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Not a hope in hell we touch this clown, he would be a cancer in the dressing room. Plus many forget Trevling is the GM not Burke. I won't address rumors of Kessel being a cancer in the dressing room. I take them with a grain of salt whether I like the player or not. ***************************************************************************************************************** What I don't like is a cap hit of 8.0 for a winger (IMO the least important position) until the end on the 2020-21 season. Especially a 1 dimentional winger. Kessel is & has been top 5 @ RW for a few years but the fact remains he's 1 of the few good players on the Leafs. The TO hype machine goes into overdrive when a player is ranked high. *************************************************** Since the asking price is likely to be high ask yourself if we need an $8 million $ winger. General ? not aimed @ tmac. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I won't address rumors of Kessel being a cancer in the dressing room. I take them with a grain of salt whether I like the player or not. ***************************************************************************************************************** What I don't like is a cap hit of 8.0 for a winger (IMO the least important position) until the end on the 2020-21 season. Especially a 1 dimentional winger. Kessel is & has been top 5 @ RW for a few years but the fact remains he's 1 of the few good players on the Leafs. The TO hype machine goes into overdrive when a player is ranked high. *************************************************** Since the asking price is likely to be high ask yourself if we need an $8 million $ winger. General ? not aimed @ tmac. As always, I agree with Flyerfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 The Leafs just fired head coach Randy Carlyle and Phil Kessel blew up on the media when it was suggested the firing may have been his fault. Former Leafs coach Ron Wilson also painted Phil Kessel as a player who is/was uncoachable. So with that said, could Phil Kessel be available now and if so, how much? Should the Flames be interested? He's 27-years-old and have scored at a point-per-game pace for 3.5 seasons and counting. RW. RH Shot. 6'-0" - 202 lbs. The Flames need RWs and RH Shots. The Flames are coming out of a rebuild so Kessel's age is a perfect fit as the Flames eventually contend for the playoffs and the Cup in about 2 to 4 years. The Flames have a solid core with solid leaders and a defined culture already. Kessel could conceivably come to Calgary and quietly do his thing without being bothered. All that and Burke once traded for him in the past. It's like Flyerfan said. The cap hit, plus what it would cost to get him, likely kills this trade imho. Now, if Toronto traded him for next to nothing, that would be another matter altogether. But more likely, I would expect toronto will expect a high price for him. And ....I would expect that there is at least one team dumb enough to pay that price (enter Oilers? Rangers? lol). Between the prospects we'd have to give up to get him, the lack of character (probably overblown), and the cap hit which never ends.... Nah. Perfect fit when only considering position, and goals. Consider any other factor, it's tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 For those thinking the attitude issues are overblown I would invite you to read the book "Future greats & Heartbreaks" which ends up talking a lot about Kessel prior to his draft year and the process of scouting Kessel. These are not new issues surfacing because he is in Toronto they are just being magnified due to the market. I don't believe he is uncoachable by any means nor a cancer but there are issues there and always has been. I happen to believe that you need a certain type of player and attitude to build a team and win a cup and Kessel doesn't fit that mold for me so I will pass. You can say he could come here and not be they guy but that's impossible. You are always going to be the guy when you male the money Kessel does and that money isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 The Leafs just fired head coach Randy Carlyle and Phil Kessel blew up on the media when it was suggested the firing may have been his fault. Former Leafs coach Ron Wilson also painted Phil Kessel as a player who is/was uncoachable. So with that said, could Phil Kessel be available now and if so, how much? Should the Flames be interested? He's 27-years-old and have scored at a point-per-game pace for 3.5 seasons and counting. RW. RH Shot. 6'-0" - 202 lbs. No thank you. Personality issues aside, I agree with FF....$8M + term puts him into "country club potential" category, and we just got ourselves rid of those kind of players. Definitely don't want to open the door to that kind of potential again. ...The Flames are coming out of a rebuild so Kessel's age is a perfect fit as the Flames eventually contend for the playoffs and the Cup in about 2 to 4 years.... So halfway through Rebuild Year 2 is "coming out of a rebuild"? Wasn't it you who suggested that a solid rebuild takes 5 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 For those thinking the attitude issues are overblown I would invite you to read the book "Future greats & Heartbreaks" which ends up talking a lot about Kessel prior to his draft year and the process of scouting Kessel. These are not new issues surfacing because he is in Toronto they are just being magnified due to the market. I don't believe he is uncoachable by any means nor a cancer but there are issues there and always has been. I happen to believe that you need a certain type of player and attitude to build a team and win a cup and Kessel doesn't fit that mold for me so I will pass. You can say he could come here and not be they guy but that's impossible. You are always going to be the guy when you male the money Kessel does and that money isn't going anywhere anytime soon. That is what people said about Carter and Richards (especially Carter). They seemed to do okay while LA won the cup twice. I am not suggesting he has the type of attitude you want to build a culture around. But Calgary has the veterans to establish a culture around. If I was Edmonton I wouldn't be interested. But as Calgary I am. To FF and JJ. I get the cap hit is high and he is a winger. He is also a point per game player and one of the best pure goal scorers in the NHL. That is worth his cap hit. He also plays a position at which we are weak both on the team and in the system. And he fills an age group that we are lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 That is what people said about Carter and Richards (especially Carter). They seemed to do okay while LA won the cup twice. I am not suggesting he has the type of attitude you want to build a culture around. But Calgary has the veterans to establish a culture around. If I was Edmonton I wouldn't be interested. But as Calgary I am. To FF and JJ. I get the cap hit is high and he is a winger. He is also a point per game player and one of the best pure goal scorers in the NHL. That is worth his cap hit. He also plays a position at which we are weak both on the team and in the system. And he fills an age group that we are lacking. The issues are different IMO. Carter and Richards were rumored to have off ice issues but never an on ice, work ethic or teammate issue. Kessel is in a different boat when it comes to questions about attitude. Carter and Richards just needed to grow up but there was no questioning their desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessemadnote39 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Minimum Price of Brodie, Monohan and a first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Kessel is a different duck, he is off. Even Burke made mention of it. He marches to the beat of his own drum, not by laziness, that is just his personal make up. One game highly competitive and the next invisible, it would be frustrating as a coach and fellow player to watch. Calling a player with his issues out, one would think would set a fire under him, but it will do the complete opposite, he will regress now. People with his personality, are hard to motivate, as I said " he is off ". I won't address rumors of Kessel being a cancer in the dressing room. I take them with a grain of salt whether I like the player or not. ***************************************************************************************************************** What I don't like is a cap hit of 8.0 for a winger (IMO the least important position) until the end on the 2020-21 season. Especially a 1 dimentional winger. Kessel is & has been top 5 @ RW for a few years but the fact remains he's 1 of the few good players on the Leafs. The TO hype machine goes into overdrive when a player is ranked high. *************************************************** Since the asking price is likely to be high ask yourself if we need an $8 million $ winger. General ? not aimed @ tmac. What we would have to give to get Kessel is not worth what we gain. The other issue is the $8 mill cap hit, I agree age RW PPG guy Kessel, fits a need. Crosby, Toews Getzlaf are game changers proven leaders, that I pay for not a hit/miss player like Kessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Sounds like Kent (The Magic Man) Nilsson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I would "do it" but not using any of our core. Kessel is a rare talent and proves it every year. He is still young enough to fit here in our rebuild. I do not think we have the pieces to offer for him though. Teams like the Oilers with Yakapov have more attractive higher draft pick pieces that they could offer. I don't think this present leadership groups on the Flames will allow him to become a cancer as some suggest. Just don't place him in that position of influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Kessel is a punk and there is no way the Flames should touch this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krule Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I've seen Kessel in action so many times and I too would prefer we pass on him. Personal issues notwithstanding, I don't think he fits in with our current group and our current culture. IMHO, he doesn't have any type of consistent work ethic. He doesn't in TO. And I don't think that would change here...just my opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I don't know....I'm torn. We can afford him, but I don't want this kind of work ethic to bleed into the ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 No thank you. Personality issues aside, I agree with FF....$8M + term puts him into "country club potential" category, and we just got ourselves rid of those kind of players. Definitely don't want to open the door to that kind of potential again. So halfway through Rebuild Year 2 is "coming out of a rebuild"? Wasn't it you who suggested that a solid rebuild takes 5 years? Yes, a solid rebuild takes 5 years but the Flames are not doing a solid rebuild. They are coming out of a rebuild beginning next season. I only present Kessel for discussions because he's what the Flames are missing positionally. The Flames need a RW and RH Shot. Kessel is in the right age group as well. I don't know....I'm torn. We can afford him, but I don't want this kind of work ethic to bleed into the ranks. I remember Bob McCown asked a question on radio about 3 weeks ago. "Which two players have scored the most goals in the NHL over the last 3 combined seasons?" The answer was not Crosby, Stamkos, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kane... the two players were somewhat surprisingly Seguin and Kessel. This is amazing considering they were traded for one another. Also amazing is that both guys have issues of sorts. Seguin is a young punk who partied too hard in Boston and didnt fit into the older/mature culture in Boston. Kessel is apparently uncoachable. If that's how a top NHL goal scorer works out, then maybe more players should workout like them? (I'm only half serious). But fully serious is how amazing it is to see so many fans not wanting to aquire a player who has outscored the likes of Crosby, Stamkos, etc over the past 3 seasons. Really? The Flames are better off without one of the NHL's top 2 goal scorers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 We can debate what type of character he is on or off the ice. But none of us really knows. Burke knows him as well as any NHL executive. I am not worried the Flames are going to trade for him if he is the uncoachable player many are making him out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I don't know....I'm torn. We can afford him, but I don't want this kind of work ethic to bleed into the ranks. I was thinking maybe they played a joke on him and cranked up the tension on his bike.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Kessel is a great goal scorer there is no doubt about that, but I wouldn't want him anywhere near this team. First there is the cost, it will take more to land Kessel than what the Senators paid for Bobby Ryan, which was Silverberg (2nd round pick in 2009), Stefan Noesen (1st round pick in 2011) and a 2014 1st round pick (Nick Ritchie). My guess is that it take something like Baertschi, Klimchuk, a 2015 1st and a 2016 1st. Second we will have his cap hit of $8mill for the rest of this season and 7 seasons after that. Which isn't a huge issues except for the fact that he is not known for being in great shape, you have to wonder how long his body will hold up if he refuses to do the necessary work outs. There are some great scorers out there that are more interested in making their money and scoring goals than they are winning, I put Kessel and Ovechkin in that category and I would bet my house that neither will ever win a cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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