Can we make the Playoffs this year?

[420since1974]

JT,

 

It could go that route, or the vets coming back from IR could really push hard to show they still deserve the ice time.

[robrob1974]

One thing I am a little worried about is, how is the team going to respond when the regulars start coming back from injury. I am little concerned that there might be a let down as some players might stop pushing, now that reinforcements are arriving. Hartley has done a good job keeping everyone focused and pushing in the right direction, but I could see a slight step backwards when guys like Backlund, Raymond and Colborne make their way back into the lineup.

 

JT, one thing about this team is, they always have done it by committee, even before the injuries. I don't see the let down happen. I see the competition becoming more fierce, unless they give the spots back to the players without them earning it. 

 

In the past when Iginla got injured, the team played better without him as a team because they had to get it done elsewhere. When he came back, they relied on him for the offense again and the team game suffered. I don't see that happening with this group because there isn't really one guy out of those injured that the team relies on as much as you do a superstar or someone of that ilk… 

[robrob1974]

I think we could use one more top 10 pick.  After that, we should be good.  No more high picks and just win win win!

 

I was with you last year on the whole getting a higher pick deal. But this year, I see it differently. 

 

Last year, we picked 4th. If Bennett heals up well and can play to his potential, it was like drafting 1st overall last year. He was in competition to be that. He should have gone third, but the Oilers needed size and Bennett dropped to us. We know how the draft went, but I am very happy that we got Bennett. 

 

Something else that is happening with this club is, like others have said is, the development of the prospects. I like what I saw in Hunter Smith in the Prospect Tournament. If we can keep finding gems like that, we don't need higher picks anymore. We need to keep scouting well and developing the prospects properly. 

 

I don't think calling them out in public is a good way to do that. While I think making comments in the media was necessary, I think they should have communicated most of it with him behind closed doors. They could have just said we need to temper expectations of Sven… 

I think that maybe letting them play does a better job, and communicating it to them to their face privately.

[robrob1974]

It sure is quiet in here, on the naysayer front that is.  How many obstacles has this team overcome already this year?

First it was the 6 game road trip to start the season.  Passed.

Then it was the next 4 game road trip.  Passed.

Then it was the injuries.  Passing so far

The first three 7 game segments.  Passed

Then it was the next CA road trip.  Outscored 2 CA teams 4-3 combined.  Passed

US Thanksgiving (today) has historically been the measuring stick.  Passed

So, for the naysayers, what would you like the next obstacle to be?

I don’t know if they’ll make the playoffs, but I’m having fun watching this team play and win.

 

Last year I the Flames to win the lottery because I wanted to draft Bennett. We got him. Who are the naysayers? Do you mean ThePeople and me? 

 

 

This year I am happy with how we're doing. I have a couple of new favourite players. Gaudreau being one of them. Pleasant surprises help as well. I feel like we have a good foundation to continue to grow on. It's all I wanted. 

 

Having Bennett and Monahan as future pieces and complimentary players with skill bodes well. If those players don't end up with the Flames, at least they're tradable assets that can bring back pieces we need to fill some of our holes. The competition that has been built within the organization is rising our prospect's depth.

 

Like I said, I liked Hunter Smith this last year and a few other prospects looked ok in the Prospect tournament. I think we're doing okay and who knows what next season will look like, but I am hoping for the playoffs this year.

[stubblejumper1]

Did anyone hear Elliott Freedman on 960 the other day?  He was talking about how a lot of people are expecting the Flames to come back down to earth.  He said something to the effect of "The Flames are playing better than expected, so enjoy it.  Don't be the guy at the party who is trying to bring everyone else down."  Wise words.

[CheersMan]

Last year I the Flames to win the lottery because I wanted to draft Bennett. We got him. Who are the naysayers? Do you mean ThePeople and me? 

 

 

No I wasn't referring to you or peeps or anyone specific.

I was referring to those who preach that this team will fail tonight, tomorrow, next week and this year.

[MAC331]

You give regulars their spots back when they are ready to come back. The good part of this as you mentioned they are all part of a good group, none of them superstars. I think we have a good thing going here with the way the AAA players have come up and chipped in. This is getting them valuable development experience.

[TrippinVdUb]

Im going to go out on a limb and make a bold prediction here.

In the month of december we have 14 games on the schedule. The first 5 include TO, Buffalo and Arizona, and are ALL very winnable. The next 6 around against teams that have all been considered the playoff contenders followed by two bouts with the oilers and a game with LA wedged in the middle.

If we can come out of december with a 9-5 record we WILL make the playoffs without a doubt in my mind and there is no reason we cant if the team continues this trend. Its about the same pace we are on now and will put us 9 games over .500...

So here's to a merry Xmas and a happy new year in Cowtown, hoodlums Santa brings us some W's this holiday season.

[cccsberg]

Last year I the Flames to win the lottery because I wanted to draft Bennett. We got him. Who are the naysayers? Do you mean ThePeople and me? 

 

 

This year I am happy with how we're doing. I have a couple of new favourite players. Gaudreau being one of them. Pleasant surprises help as well. I feel like we have a good foundation to continue to grow on. It's all I wanted. 

 

Having Bennett and Monahan as future pieces and complimentary players with skill bodes well. If those players don't end up with the Flames, at least they're tradable assets that can bring back pieces we need to fill some of our holes. The competition that has been built within the organization is rising our prospect's depth.

 

Like I said, I liked Hunter Smith this last year and a few other prospects looked ok in the Prospect tournament. I think we're doing okay and who knows what next season will look like, but I am hoping for the playoffs this year.

The whole thing about Bennett at this past draft is really quite interesting, especially in regards of the thinking that #1 overalls picks are essential to success. Plus the fact we've never had one and aren't going to be getting one (save the lottery) any time soon.

Bennett was arguably the #1 overall-rated prospect last year, and because of various things, we got him at the #4 selection. It still remains to be seen how he develops but I'm hopeful he grows into that rating fully and the Flames got a grand slam winner with him...

The year before we got Monahan at #6, and no doubt last year that looked like reasonable positioning, this year Mackinnon and the others drafted ahead of him (except perhaps Seth Jones) have all slid/been even while Monahan has taken a huge leap forward. If he keeps developing he may end up one of/or the best from that year too.

Add in Gaudreau and TJ Brodie who are definitely grand slams considering their 4th round draft heritage, and probably would also be if drafted 1st rounders. Add in Giordano, not even drafted...

My point is that although drafting 1st overall looks great and is exciting, and the % show you have the best chance of getting an impact player there, what is really key is not who you have on draft day, but who you have 2-3+ years later. Development is absolutely crucial, as is finding diamonds in the rough. Calgary is doing well now in part because they've got a team with several players that play like top-of-the-draft gems even though the Flames have never been in that rarified position. If they can keep it going with development (and this year it is...) that should continue and bodes very, very well for the team's future.

[kehatch]

The whole thing about Bennett at this past draft is really quite interesting, especially in regards of the thinking that #1 overalls picks are essential to success. Plus the fact we've never had one and aren't going to be getting one (save the lottery) any time soon.

Bennett was arguably the #1 overall-rated prospect last year, and because of various things, we got him at the #4 selection. It still remains to be seen how he develops but I'm hopeful he grows into that rating fully and the Flames got a grand slam winner with him...

The year before we got Monahan at #6, and no doubt last year that looked like reasonable positioning, this year Mackinnon and the others drafted ahead of him (except perhaps Seth Jones) have all slid/been even while Monahan has taken a huge leap forward. If he keeps developing he may end up one of/or the best from that year too.

Add in Gaudreau and TJ Brodie who are definitely grand slams considering their 4th round draft heritage, and probably would also be if drafted 1st rounders. Add in Giordano, not even drafted...

My point is that although drafting 1st overall looks great and is exciting, and the % show you have the best chance of getting an impact player there, what is really key is not who you have on draft day, but who you have 2-3+ years later. Development is absolutely crucial, as is finding diamonds in the rough. Calgary is doing well now in part because they've got a team with several players that play like top-of-the-draft gems even though the Flames have never been in that rarified position. If they can keep it going with development (and this year it is...) that should continue and bodes very, very well for the team's future.

I agree that you don't need a top 3 pick to build a successful team. You need to be able to draft and develop top players. Drafting high improves your chance of doing that. But it isn't a requisite to success.

I will say that the Flames are in a bit of a honeymoon segment right now though. Prospects like Jooris and Granlund are benefiting from some early success, but it remains to be seen if they can continue to be quality NHL players long term. Ferland has looked good in small patches, but he still has plenty to prove. Even Monahan has more to show to prove he can be part of the core a team can build a successful franchise around. Bennett and Poirier haven't played in the NHL yet. Etc. The only guys that have shown enough to this point is Brodie and Giordano.

I am not trying to be a Debbie downer. In fact I am really optimistic this club has acquired players to build around. But we need to see more before we can be confident we have turned the corner.

[420since1974]

"But we need to see more before we can be confident we have turned the corner."  

 

This is why I would prefer to keep all of our draft picks and possibly acquire extras for the next season or two.

The cupboard is not full yet.

[kehatch]

"But we need to see more before we can be confident we have turned the corner."

This is why I would prefer to keep all of our draft picks and possibly acquire extras for the next season or two.

The cupboard is not full yet.

I agree that the Flames aren't in a position to trade prospects and picks for short term solutions. But there are more ways than just the draft to stock the cupboards.

Weisbrod used to talk about successful teams having players across all age demographics. It is necessary to the on ice success today, but it is also necessary to maintaining success over ling periods.

The Flames had a really bad period of drafting leaving us really weak in the tweener demographic. It's one of the reasons they brought on so many tweeners like Russell, Cervenka, Colborne, etc. Obviously some didn't work out.

I think the Flames have a lot of young guys like Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, and others that could be impact guys. There is nothing wrong with getting more of those guys. But I think we are leaner in the mid 20s demographic. If we can leverage a pick or prospect to bring on a potential impact player in the mid 20s range I think we are better off then drafting another teenager.

But it has to be the right move. Otherwise I agree you just keep the prospect or pick because the cupboards aren't completely stocked yet.

[cccsberg]

I agree that you don't need a top 3 pick to build a successful team. You need to be able to draft and develop top players. Drafting high improves your chance of doing that. But it isn't a requisite to success.

I will say that the Flames are in a bit of a honeymoon segment right now though. Prospects like Jooris and Granlund are benefiting from some early success, but it remains to be seen if they can continue to be quality NHL players long term. Ferland has looked good in small patches, but he still has plenty to prove. Even Monahan has more to show to prove he can be part of the core a team can build a successful franchise around. Bennett and Poirier haven't played in the NHL yet. Etc. The only guys that have shown enough to this point is Brodie and Giordano.

I am not trying to be a Debbie downer. In fact I am really optimistic this club has acquired players to build around. But we need to see more before we can be confident we have turned the corner.

Glad to see you agree with me completely. Of the other players you mentioned I expect if they continue to develop they will also be very good players. Time reveals all things.

[The_People1]

No I wasn't referring to you or peeps or anyone specific.

I was referring to those who preach that this team will fail tonight, tomorrow, next week and this year.

 

I never said we "will" fail.

 

I've said we "should try to" fail.... or like, "accidentally on purpose" get a higher draft pick.  Like, take advantage of the draft system before they change the rules. 

 

Earlier in this thread, i said we should wait until December and see where they are in the standings.  Because by December, there is enough sample size to suggest this team is either for real or for fake.  It's December.  The Flames are for real. 

[jjgallow]

I never said we "will" fail.

 

I'll say it.  Of course I could be wrong.  

 

But IMHO:

 

Wow, we had a great October and November (but the hard part of the season is just starting).

 

Wow, Gaudreau is for real (but he will slow down).

 

Wow, we've had great goaltending (but it will normalize)

 

Wow, we've had great defense (but we're one injury away from falling off of a depth cliff).

 

 

I'm quite sure I'm the last man standing on this, but I'll stand by my opinion that this will be a rough season for the Flames.

[Toppolzer]

I'll say it.  Of course I could be wrong.  

 

But IMHO:

 

Wow, we had a great October and November (but the hard part of the season is just starting).

 

Wow, Gaudreau is for real (but he will slow down).

 

Wow, we've had great goaltending (but it will normalize)

 

Wow, we've had great defense (but we're one injury away from falling off of a depth cliff).

 

 

I'm quite sure I'm the last man standing on this, but I'll stand by my opinion that this will be a rough season for the Flames.

I don't think Johnny will slow down too much. He isn't scoring at as unsustainable a pace as Forsberg. He's at a hair over .7 P/GP. I see him normalizing at a .6-.65 P/GP pace. For comparison, Monny had a .45 P/GP and that was with a majority of his points being goals. Johnny is more of a set up man and with secondary assists, he could very well finish in the 45-50 point range.

 

If you call Hiller letting in a stinker every game he played pretty much in the month of November great, I question your definition of great, same with Ramo. Barring his two shutouts and that stellar game against Chicago, he's hasn't been great either. Case and point. Both goalies are below .920 S%. With Ramo being just about league average and Hiller being just below. They're also both just below the league average GAA.

[kehatch]

I'll say it. Of course I could be wrong.

But IMHO:

Wow, we had a great October and November (but the hard part of the season is just starting).

Wow, Gaudreau is for real (but he will slow down).

Wow, we've had great goaltending (but it will normalize)

Wow, we've had great defense (but we're one injury away from falling off of a depth cliff).

I'm quite sure I'm the last man standing on this, but I'll stand by my opinion that this will be a rough season for the Flames.

Goaltending was normal for most of November yet we were still winning games. Gaudreau may slow down, but I don't think he will. But if he does we still have players like Raymond coming back. I agree with the injury issues on D. But outside of an injury to Brodie or Giordano is don't see any reason we can't remain in the hunt at the least.

[travel_dude]

I'll say it.  Of course I could be wrong.  

 

But IMHO:

 

Wow, we had a great October and November (but the hard part of the season is just starting).

 

Wow, Gaudreau is for real (but he will slow down).

 

Wow, we've had great goaltending (but it will normalize)

 

Wow, we've had great defense (but we're one injury away from falling off of a depth cliff).

 

 

I'm quite sure I'm the last man standing on this, but I'll stand by my opinion that this will be a rough season for the Flames.

We have seen the best case scenario for injury replacement at the worst time possible. The guys that went down were a big part of the core. The guys that came in did so without benefit of a strong start to the season; there were losing games. Goaltending was strong, but really the Chicago game was one of the few that we maybe shouldn't have won. The rest of the games were full of shot attempts, blocked shots, shots from the perimeter, etc.

Gaudreau has been just OK, from a points perspective. He started slowly, and seems to have found a rhythm.

Not quite a p/gp, but up there. And he is just getting started. He is facing some different playing styles, and is adapting to them. He can play with any linemate.

The return of the vets will be the bigger test to this team. Slotting in Stajan. Finding a line for Raymond. Figuring out where Backs belongs (not ready for awhile), what to do with Colborne. The young guys have carved out a spot in the lineup. Johnny is top 6; plays well with Hudler and Granlund/Jooris; you want to keep that line as very speedy. Mony, Colborne and GlenX; probably a good fit, but what to do with Jones. Raymond with Granlund and Jones; fine, but what about Byron.

These are good problems to have. Yes, the top 2D are not replaceable, but at least 3/4 can be somewhat replaced.

[s4xon]

We have seen the best case scenario for injury replacement at the worst time possible. The guys that went down were a big part of the core. The guys that came in did so without benefit of a strong start to the season; there were losing games. Goaltending was strong, but really the Chicago game was one of the few that we maybe shouldn't have won. The rest of the games were full of shot attempts, blocked shots, shots from the perimeter, etc.

Gaudreau has been just OK, from a points perspective. He started slowly, and seems to have found a rhythm.

Not quite a p/gp, but up there. And he is just getting started. He is facing some different playing styles, and is adapting to them. He can play with any linemate.

The return of the vets will be the bigger test to this team. Slotting in Stajan. Finding a line for Raymond. Figuring out where Backs belongs (not ready for awhile), what to do with Colborne. The young guys have carved out a spot in the lineup. Johnny is top 6; plays well with Hudler and Granlund/Jooris; you want to keep that line as very speedy. Mony, Colborne and GlenX; probably a good fit, but what to do with Jones. Raymond with Granlund and Jones; fine, but what about Byron.

These are good problems to have. Yes, the top 2D are not replaceable, but at least 3/4 can be somewhat replaced.

 

As for the bolded........I have to completely disagree.  Regardless if they are losing a lot, Johnny Hockey is outscoring all 3 of the 1st overalls up in Mulletville.

 

Not many players are a ppg in the NHL.  Now we are comparing a first year kid, who puts the tiny in Tiny-Tim, and he's 2nd in rookie scoring, and has scored more than 3/4 of the league.  I'd consider that substantially better than "just ok".

 

Give the kid credit where credit is due.  Expecting a ppg pace in the NHL is asinine for an under 30 game rook.

[travel_dude]

As for the bolded........I have to completely disagree.  Regardless if they are losing a lot, Johnny Hockey is outscoring all 3 of the 1st overalls up in Mulletville.

 

Not many players are a ppg in the NHL.  Now we are comparing a first year kid, who puts the tiny in Tiny-Tim, and he's 2nd in rookie scoring, and has scored more than 3/4 of the league.  I'd consider that substantially better than "just ok".

 

Give the kid credit where credit is due.  Expecting a ppg pace in the NHL is asinine for an under 30 game rook.

I am a big supporter of Johnny Hockey and all he has done. What I was getting at is he hasn't reached his potential for this year, in response to JJ.  Meaning that he isn't going to slow down but instead get better this year.  I don't expect his points production to slow down.  I think his shooting percentage will go up.  HIs points total may not change, but the goals should increase. 

 

His continued poerformance is as important to this team making the playoffs as Brodano, Monahan and Ram-iller.

[cccsberg]

I'll say it.  Of course I could be wrong.  

 

But IMHO:

 

Wow, we had a great October and November (but the hard part of the season is just starting).

 

Wow, Gaudreau is for real (but he will slow down).

 

Wow, we've had great goaltending (but it will normalize)

 

Wow, we've had great defense (but we're one injury away from falling off of a depth cliff).

 

 

I'm quite sure I'm the last man standing on this, but I'll stand by my opinion that this will be a rough season for the Flames.

Well you could be right, but:

1. The whole season is hard, and for the record we've played and beaten some excellent teams to date: Chicago, Nashville, Montreal, Anaheim, SJ and etc...

2. Gaudreau is for real, and he is gaining confidence game by game. I see him improving as time goes on.

3. Our goaltending has been great at times, but overall, at the moment its just above league average. Its already regressed. If the coach keeps the rotation competition going I think they stay strong all season.

4. Defense has been great and you're right, a couple key injuries would be drastic. But you can say the same for most other teams too, i.e. if they lose 2 of their top players they will struggle. But that is always true. Let's hope not this season.

[s4xon]

I am a big supporter of Johnny Hockey and all he has done. What I was getting at is he hasn't reached his potential for this year, in response to JJ.  Meaning that he isn't going to slow down but instead get better this year.  I don't expect his points production to slow down.  I think his shooting percentage will go up.  HIs points total may not change, but the goals should increase. 

 

His continued poerformance is as important to this team making the playoffs as Brodano, Monahan and Ram-iller.

 

Ramiller...........Hillmo?

[kehatch]

Ramiller...........Hillmo?

Ramjo

[Flyerfan52]

I'll say it.  Of course I could be wrong.  

 

But IMHO:

 

Wow, we had a great October and November (but the hard part of the season is just starting).

 

Wow, Gaudreau is for real (but he will slow down).

 

Wow, we've had great goaltending (but it will normalize)

 

Wow, we've had great defense (but we're one injury away from falling off of a depth cliff).

 

 

I'm quite sure I'm the last man standing on this, but I'll stand by my opinion that this will be a rough season for the Flames.

We might have caught a few teams by surprise in Oct. & early Nov. but then even the talking heads clued in that the Flames were tough to play with that work ethic. Teams/scouts notice earlier then eastern media. Points banked early count just as much as the 1s later in the season.

 

I was 1 of the few that had little faith in Gaudreau. He might still find it hard with the longer season but that can be compensated for with shorter shifts/less ice time using him strategically. His production might go down but probably not signicantly. The kid is making a believer out of this doubter.

 

Our goal-tending has been good but not fantastic. The tandem works well but are upper side of middle of the pack. They also get a lot of help from the skaters.

 

The defence is better then average & even make up 40% of our scoring. Injuries to our top guys would hurt a lot (losing 1 of your top 2 hurts every team that isn't aimed @ the sweepstakes) but if 1 goes down we can likely cope with our team defense. That team defense should get even better as our regular centers return as it's a big part of all their games.

 

I see our play as  substainable with the possibility of getting even better with the injured returning & Treliving insuring against a dip should a top D go down by acquiring a defenseman capable of moving from pairing 2 to top pairing without a huge drop. Injuries have shown we have forward depth so the part to work of until the trade deadline is defensive depth IMO.

[CastleMania]

I think the important thing at this point is that even if we come down to Earth starting now, playing .500 hockey will net us 90 points; playing .525 will net us 93 points; and playing .550 hockey will net us 96 points. (edit: if we continue playing at our current pace we are looking at 107 points!)

Currently we are playing .653 hockey, so even with a 10% fall in production we are still likely to make the playoffs. This team will have to become a losing team at this point to not make the playoffs, so with every win it looks more and more like we have a great shot at making it.

The key from this point moving forward is to play consistent hockey and avoid any major losing streaks. The 7 game series approach is a great mentality that both keeps players engaged and prepares them for the grind of the playoffs. I think it's completely possible that we make it.

All that being said, I wouldn't be surprised if they fell off the face of the planet either.