jmatechuk Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I think there are a few things to consider in this topic to back an answer. To be to the point though, I have no problem going on record as saying yes. For the first time in many, many years...yes, I believe they can make it. So besides some of the obvious changes (coaching, rookies, cleaning up the "stale" mind sets, etc.) one the elements that I think adds substanamce to my statement has got to be the culture that this club had bought into. From the newest draft picks to the Captain himself, the commitment and effort we're seeing is so severe and runs so deep (every line every position), we have a realistic opportunity. I don't believe this level of success was even in the sights for the Flames Leasdership team when they began this season. I believe their visions and expectations are based on a longer term vision. But when you do all the little things right, great things happen. Sometimes sooner than we expected. Even the best analysts saw our team as going in the right direction this year but they didn't have a lot of optimism for this seasons results. Just look at the projected points and positions that were being talked about in the pre-season. Pacific Division Anaheim Ducks: 90.5 Calgary Flames: 74.5 Edmonton Oilers: 89.5 Los Angeles Kings: 98.5 Phoenix Coyotes: 85.5 San Jose Sharks: 94.5 Vancouver Canucks: 95.5 So yes we've exceeded expectations. And based on the depth of this newfound commitment and pride to the flaming C, this level of play is something our fan base will reap the benefits of, not just this season but for years to come. We really are at the beginning of something great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrek Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Agreed. Suggesting we need three seasons of high picks is an arbitrary recipe. I don't understand why we should ignore what has actually happened in favor of an arbitrary guess of three seasons to rebuild. I was a big advocate of if your going to be at the bottom of the league may aswell make it worth it and get the best pick possible. There was a multitude of people on here ranting "no every game matter's we need to win no matter what" But guess what if we had it your guys way and they won 1-3 games more, we wouldn't have Bennett. Heck he wouldn't have Monahan, and Monahan was and still is the cornerstone of this rebuild for the flames. Sooner or later key leadership like Gio, Hudler, Glenx WILL be gone. Granted they had a HUGE role in creating what we are now, but they're not the future. I viewed the rebuild to last us 4-5 years until we became a CONTENDER, not just a play-off bubble team. And we seem right on pace. Can we make the play-offs? It's possible Can we make it past the 1st round? Unlikely (Highly depends on match-ups), Good experience tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Winning the Stanley Cup, by definition, is not inherently easy. This thread is evolving into an interesting (ongoing, but interesting nonetheless) debate about whether the path to success involves development of late round picks, or whether it requires high draft picks. The answer, as most Stanley Cup winning teams are a testament, is usually Both. Great cases have been made on both sides, and examples of success through both methods have been well illustrated. But none of those examples relied singularly on one method. We don't need to look any further than literally any Stanley Cup winning team. They typically have a period of 3 years (usually more) drafting in the upper half, and at least one or two years drafting in the top 5. Then, they Also succeed developing their lower picks. It's not one or the other. It's both. And it's a long road. The answer, IMHO, to the OP's question, is no. The Flames don't have what it takes to have the same kind of success in the second half of the season. More importantly, making the playoffs isn't good enough. It's not a worthy goal. Becoming a contender is a worthy goal. We are 1 season out from being a playoff team. We're 2-3 years out from being a serious contender. It's going to be a fun journey. With regards to whether we need this year's pick, I think we do. But more importantly, we need D prospects that will be in their prime 2-3 years from now. That's going to be a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 .... It's not one or the other. It's both. And it's a long road. The answer, IMHO, to the OP's question, is no. The Flames don't have what it takes to have the same kind of success in the second half of the season. More importantly, making the playoffs isn't good enough. It's not a worthy goal. Becoming a contender is a worthy goal. We are 1 season out from being a playoff team. We're 2-3 years out from being a serious contender. It's going to be a fun journey. With regards to whether we need this year's pick, I think we do. But more importantly, we need D prospects that will be in their prime 2-3 years from now. That's going to be a challenge. Abbreviated some of your comments. Appreciate your opinion of whether we can make it, as that is the reason for the thread. But there is a big difference between making it and competing beyond the 1st round. The stats people would suggest that we can't sustain a winning record and finish with enough points. But, you have to look at some of the losses as well. We haven't been blown out in any games since STL and BUFF beat us. They are most, if not all one goal games. Subtract a bad Hiller goal or a suspect Ramo flub and we have decent goaltending. We have rookies that are just learning the NHL game and are adapting. We have holes in defense, PK and PP that can be fixed. We have scoring forwards that are playing defensive matchups. We are missing our top possession center. If you look at the growth of Johnny since October, you are seeing the birth of an elite forward. Throw in any center with him and Hudler and you have a top scoring line. You can continue to rely on Monahan for his defensive game (play Backlund on a scoring line) or use him in a scoring role. Either way you win. I take exception that making the playoffs is not a first goal your need to shoot for. You have to get in to see what you are missing in the lineup. Much like bringing in a prospect, they will go away knowing what they need to succeed. Your development arc will not allow you from going to outside the playoffs to winning the cup, so making the playoffs every year should be the goal. You become a tougher team with that experience. Drafting every year is fine, but you need a core that spans all the top picks you have, plus the role players that fill in where needed. By the time McDavid or Eichel is ready (minimum 2 years, max 4 years), your other picks would need to be top line players. EDM is not set up to succeed with either of those guys. BUFF is closer due to all the 1st round picks from trades and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrek Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Why do people think losing is "bad" for development? Was Monahan developed correctly on his bad junior team? They lost quiet abit, but you can tell being on such a team taught him a few lessons, that he's putting into his current development. Meanwhile Sven's team was a POWERHOUSE. Winning was first nature to those kids, and now that they're in the NHL, BOOM welcome to reality it's not that easy anymore. You cant tell me that our prospects that were struggling during our losing streak, didnt learn a thing or two during that period of games. Too much of one thing is just as bad. I see us being a play-off bubble this year and next, Beyond that we SHOULD become a contender. I want to be able to watch this team make it past the 1st round more then once. Not a have a team like the Flyers that float in the middle every season then gets eliminated in the first 2 rounds. Going no where fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Why do people think losing is "bad" for development? Was Monahan developed correctly on his bad junior team? They lost quiet abit, but you can tell being on such a team taught him a few lessons, that he's putting into his current development. Meanwhile Sven's team was a POWERHOUSE. Winning was first nature to those kids, and now that they're in the NHL, BOOM welcome to reality it's not that easy anymore. You cant tell me that our prospects that were struggling during our losing streak, didnt learn a thing or two during that period of games. Too much of one thing is just as bad. I see us being a play-off bubble this year and next, Beyond that we SHOULD become a contender. I want to be able to watch this team make it past the 1st round more then once. Not a have a team like the Flyers that float in the middle every season then gets eliminated in the first 2 rounds. Going no where fast. One:Would you rather develop a prospect on the Oilers or the Flames? Two: It isn't just that a losing culture is bad for development. It's that we are winning because our kids are succeeding. By wishing we were losing you are effectively wishing our kids aren't doing as well. Which is really why I think complaining about wins is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrek Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 One:Would you rather develop a prospect on the Oilers or the Flames? Two: It isn't just that a losing culture is bad for development. It's that we are winning because our kids are succeeding. By wishing we were losing you are effectively wishing our kids aren't doing as well. Which is really why I think complaining about wins is ridiculous. Whose complaining about wins? That was 1-2 years ago. When it actually mattered towards our draft position. I said too much of one thing is just as bad, so why even mention the oilers all they do is lose, i'm not even sure if they know how to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I agree with you cross, it's all about attaining good assets. Once you have them in your organization you can assess their growing potential and what you have. Should your farm assets push themselves onto the NHL scene then you have a positive situation for continued growth and hopefully success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 If we were fortunate enough to win the lottery and have a chance to choose between the two, I would rather we traded the pick away, and pick up some D prospects. And besides why would we have to trade 1 of Monahan or Bennett? From what I have been reading Bennett has a good chance of moving to the wing unless we need him at Center. Well, if what you say is true about Bennett and he can play wing.... That just makes it worse. It puts Hudler/Gaudreau/both up on the trading block. Or, once again, Bennett himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrek Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Well, if what you say is true about Bennett and he can play wing.... That just makes it worse. It puts Hudler/Gaudreau/both up on the trading block. Or, once again, Bennett himself. Having options of where you can put a rookie just makes it worse? If you think Hudler is here to stay for years to come, give your head a shake. Either way there's room for Bennett. Is there room for Stajan/Backlund? Now that's a whole other story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da4RealDeal Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I just wanted to add my opinion. Yes I think Hudler I here for years to come. He is a good fit and makes every one around him better. I believe we are lucky to have him playing with JH. He has been a big part of JH success so far. Yes Johnny is really talented but have the relationship with a line mate that he has is big. Hudler is having his best year ever. Do I need to remind you who he played with in Detroit? If he is getting better why trade him? If he plays so well with Johnny why not keep them together for years to come? He is not so easily replaceable and has great chemistry and has a winning attitude that this whole team must benifet from. Colborne, Jooris, Granlund, and Bennett and can make the move to the wing. If anyone thinks that we aren't going to have to move at least three of our present prospect in the next few years try to understand that needing Dmen is more important than keep your shinny new toys. I can easily see Byron, Granlund and Sven being dealt before the end of this year, along with a few aging vets. Getting a good Dman or good prospect in return with a 2nd and third would be a start but I expect that most will be a little upset with what will go down at the trade deadline. To answer the topic question, yes I think we will still make it in. No I don't think we can make it past the second round. Yes I think it is a good learning chip for the team to make it and end up losing early. It may spark another gear in some for next season. (The only way we make it is if we don't get many injuries) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrek Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I assume Hudler is staying here longer then Glenx will be. I'm not saying trade Hudler now cause that's just stupid for the obvious reasons you just posted, but if this were any other team and you took an objective view, he's an aging asset that maybe not this year or the next, but sooner or later you have to do something with him. How many years have we been searching for #1 - #2 Centers that could push us to be a contender. We finally have them and you want to get rid of them before they even show any promise. We have an abundance of 2nd to 4th liners, that we could package together to make something happen, but to trade away Bennett or Monahan without a seriously good return is mind boggling. Hudler/Gio are the main leadership for this team, not Glenx, Stajan, Backlund ect that are injury prone/motivation issues, and put up less numbers then most of our prospects. They are trade bait. You don't trade away your future to keep aging assets around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da4RealDeal Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Hey Wrek, I guess I wasn't clear, when I said we will need to move some guys I never said Centers that we need, but Grandlund can bring us a good asset and with Jooris stepping up this year being bigger I would sooner keep him and trade Grandlund. Don't get me wrong I like his play alot but with Bennett, Monohan, Jooris, Colborne, Stajan, and Backlund pushing for there spots next year I do see a chance of some centers moving. We will have some young guys joining the AHL team next year witch means we will need to make room for them. Knight and Arnold could make a good push for NHL ice time as well. We don't need to see this as a bad thing, we may be able to get a good return for some players who mirror others. I know that when the moves happen there will be people that disagree with some of them including me, but most people only think about what they like in each player and what they are losing before see what we are getting. Sometimes you have such a need in certain areas that you need to bite the bullet to fill say some D prospects or Depth in areas the staff feels are weak. The Bullet I speak of can be seen in Edmonton, they really need to make some changes that everyone can see and to do so they will most likely make moves that the public will shake there heads at.(If they are smart they will) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyromancer Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I have unlocked the Flames & Losing For Higher Draft Order thread, and moved most of the "tanking" posts to it. The thread can be found here (linky-poo --> http://fans.flames.nhl.com/community/topic/20517-flames-losing-for-higher-draft-order/). Please keep your conversations about draft positioning there, and bring this topic back on track to "Can we make the Playoffs this year". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamespatriot Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 January is going to be a big month for the flames. The scheduled is in our favor, but we are facing some tough competition. If we can finish with at least 7 wins this month,then it will provide this team with some breathing space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 It won't be easy with some dang good teams ahead of us. I'd be happiest if we could spoil the Orca season but that's unlikely. I'm hoping this incarnation of the Jets makes the playoffs & does some damage but if it's them or the Flames I prefer the Flames to get that playoff wildcard (although I see the Jets giving teams a harder time). Killer for Calgary is every team ahead of us other than Ducks & Kings has played less games but have more points. I'll hope for the Sharks to lose a lot so both the Flames & Jets qualify. 4 of 7 against Ducks, Preds or Hawks is tough but 1 & done is better than not being in the playoffs. If you fall on the dance floor it's > being the 1 with your nose pushed against the glass watching & wishing you could be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 It won't be easy with some dang good teams ahead of us. I'd be happiest if we could spoil the Orca season but that's unlikely. I'm hoping this incarnation of the Jets makes the playoffs & does some damage but if it's them or the Flames I prefer the Flames to get that playoff wildcard (although I see the Jets giving teams a harder time). Killer for Calgary is every team ahead of us other than Ducks & Kings has played less games but have more points. I'll hope for the Sharks to lose a lot so both the Flames & Jets qualify. 4 of 7 against Ducks, Preds or Hawks is tough but 1 & done is better than not being in the playoffs. If you fall on the dance floor it's > being the 1 with your nose pushed against the glass watching & wishing you could be there. The big killer is the 3 point games between western conference teams. The other one is if teams above us winning against eastern teams. Essentially, we need all westen conference matchups to end in regulation and all eastern conference teams to be our western brethren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 If we are going to lose we need to get some of our losses in OT. Say we lost 2-3 in OT on the 8 game losing streak, that's 3 extra points right there, plus a few others throughout the season would have helped. I prefer wins of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamespatriot Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Every point matters. Contrary to common belief I see the flames wining a fair share of these californian match ups. We can beat teams that we can out skate with our speed. Teams that can match us with speed however are bad matchups for us. LA, San Jose, and Anaheim cannot out skate us which is why we have had success against them. We also need monahan, jones, and glencross to step up their scoring. We need Monahan's Line to start producing. Its unfortunate that this team lost 8 games in a row last month. If we won half of those games, then we would have had a lot of breathing room in the standings. With team like Dallas, Minnesota, and Colorado catching up to the flames in the standings it's going to make the next 42 games a dog fight for the flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheriforPM Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'm happy that we are in this dog fight. I honestly expected us to be sitting where the Yotes are now after New Years. This team has proved a lot of people wrong considering most pundits had us fighting for top pick this year. Can we make it? I still believe we can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreckening Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I think the Flames may have plateaued. This is as good as we're going to get and that's a bubble team. They're going to have to get on another big winning streak or at least win 3 out of 4 game increments to be guaranteed a spot in the playoffs. We're getting into the point of the season where the bigger teams like L.A. start to step up their games. I just don't know if the Flames have the horses to turn it up one more notch. If they can, will they have enough to go through a playoff run? The one thing for sure is the Flames are going to make it interesting and I'll be cheering them on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Who will be our C's for next year is guesswork right now and this will play into who possibly becomes Wingers. Out of the eventual rearrangements manage has to make some decisions on who to trade. Bear in mind if we want to obtain any top 4 F potentials some value from the Flames side will have to go in any deal. The other part of these decisions will be trying not to go to young to fast unless the player being replaced has been over taken with the talent taking his place. Also we cannot forget meeting the minimum floor within the cap rules. I think the players that should be considered as trade chips are Glencross, Stajan, Jones, Byron and Smid. 2016 Line Up speculated. Raymond, Monahan, Colborne Gaudreau, Bennett, Hudler Granlund, Backlund, Jooris Bollig, Knight, Bouma Baertschi, Reinhart Giordano, Brodie NEW, Wideman Russell, Engelland Wotherspoon Ramos, Hiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I don't like what I saw yesterday. We need to see a bounce back game tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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