Flames Defense

[zima]

You know what I don't get the whole system is falling apart even the Heat are failing just as bad as the big team weird or what?

[cross16]

I wouldn't want Wideman anywhere near my top 4. I was happy when he was playing on the 3rd pairing and playing 17 or less minutes a night. Wideman should be in a pairing that doesn't get any defensive zone starts. He is a nightmare in the defensive zone. Give him O-Zone starts and OK time, but lock him to the bench outside of that.

Ideally we could get a LHS physical defense man who can play alongside in the top 4.

Giordano/Brodie

?/Hamilton

Russell/Wideman

Long term I agree with this but I don't think a top 4 dman is on its way here anytime soon. In the meantime personally I would much prefer Wideman in the top 4 than Russell.

[MAC331]

Long term I agree with this but I don't think a top 4 dman is on its way here anytime soon. In the meantime personally I would much prefer Wideman in the top 4 than Russell.

I still think the best pairing to run with are these if we want support in the right places.

Giordano & Wideman ( Wideman needs a lot of help)

Brodie & Hamilton ( Brodie knows the system and best to compliment Hamilton imo)

Russell & Engelland ( Russell plays best with lesser minutes and need some size matched with him.) Smid as spare

For the most part these parings also have each individual playing on his shooting side.

[Pucksage]

Any word how bad Russell's injury is? Hope it's not like Lance's injury last season.

[kehatch]

Any word how bad Russell's injury is? Hope it's not like Lance's injury last season.

 

Looks like a finger injury.  They were calling it day to day.

[AlbertaBoy12]

If russell is down for an extended period its a blesssing in disguise. 

[MAC331]

If russell is down for an extended period its a blesssing in disguise. 

How so ?

[AlbertaBoy12]

How so ?

I could think of many reasons. 

 

Maybe BH will stop playing him like a top 4 dman.

Maybe hamilton will get more icetime.

 

I mean obviously the negatives are he cant increase his trade stock or block 10 shots a game.

[kehatch]

I will admit there is a silver lining if Russell is out for a few games.  The coach plays him way to many minutes and this gives other players a chance to prove themselves.  it also opens up combinations that Hartley has been reluctant to try such as Brodie-Hamilton.  It may also give Wideman a chance to get going.  

 

But Russell >> Smid.  Russell being out isn't a good thing.  

[MAC331]

I could think of many reasons. 

 

Maybe BH will stop playing him like a top 4 dman.

Maybe hamilton will get more icetime.

 

I mean obviously the negatives are he cant increase his trade stock or block 10 shots a game.

I disagree, Russell is exactly the type of player you use in the top 4 when there is nothing better available.

Hamilton is getting the ice time he should.

Until you replace him with something better this team needs Russell on the ice. (silver lining may be Smid) LOL

[AlbertaBoy12]

I actually thought smid played well the games he played, which was sheltered minutes but I would rather see smid playing sheltered minutes then russell playing top 4. I actually dont mind the combination of gio-wideman in our top 4, and the combination of brodie-hamilton. I think its much better for our top 4 but thats just me.

[travel_dude]

I disagree, Russell is exactly the type of player you use in the top 4 when there is nothing better available.

Hamilton is getting the ice time he should.

Until you replace him with something better this team needs Russell on the ice. (silver lining may be Smid) LOL

 

Smid is more like a lead lining.  He has been a disaster.  Having Smid in the lineup means Dougie and Wideman or Wideman and Gio. Bringing up a farm hand would help.  They could play about 12 minutes on the 2nd pair, and split the other 8 between Brodie and Wideman and Gio.  

[MAC331]

Smid is more like a lead lining.  He has been a disaster.  Having Smid in the lineup means Dougie and Wideman or Wideman and Gio. Bringing up a farm hand would help.  They could play about 12 minutes on the 2nd pair, and split the other 8 between Brodie and Wideman and Gio.  

Lead lining LOL I like that.

[kehatch]

Here is a scathing review of Russell. It articulates what a lot of us have been saying.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/the-incredibly-overrated-kris-russell/

[cross16]

Here is a scathing review of Russell. It articulates what a lot of us have been saying.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/the-incredibly-overrated-kris-russell/

 

Thanks for posting that. The guys on the 960 mentioned it and I meant to read it last night.

 

not a surprise at all. I'm getting more into the advanced stats but in this case I didn't need advanced stats to tell me Russell isn't a top 4 dman you can just see that in how he plays so in this case this just supports what most of us see.

 

I agree with the article that in a 5/6 role and for 3 mill or less i'm open to Russell coming back. But this article just solidifies that if Russell wants to be a top 4 dman or wants a penny more than 3 million he has to play elsehwere. His "intangibles" he brings do not outweigh the negatives mentioned in that article.

[travel_dude]

Thanks for posting that. The guys on the 960 mentioned it and I meant to read it last night.

 

not a surprise at all. I'm getting more into the advanced stats but in this case I didn't need advanced stats to tell me Russell isn't a top 4 dman you can just see that in how he plays so in this case this just supports what most of us see.

 

I agree with the article that in a 5/6 role and for 3 mill or less i'm open to Russell coming back. But this article just solidifies that if Russell wants to be a top 4 dman or wants a penny more than 3 million he has to play elsehwere. His "intangibles" he brings do not outweigh the negatives mentioned in that article.

 

Here is a scathing review of Russell. It articulates what a lot of us have been saying.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/the-incredibly-overrated-kris-russell/

 

I don't disagree with the article, as I have been spouting it for some time now this season.  The source is what I question.  JW is a renowned Oiler blogger/writer.  It's funny how this was written around the time rumors of Calgary trying to make a trade with NYI, and the Oilers were said to be in the mix.  

 

No, I don't wear a tinfoil hat.  Some of the columnists that cover the Oilers get inside info because of the favourable press they give the Oilers.  When the jerseys were being tossed and the cry was Fire Lowe, few were writing scathing reviews.  Like I said the timing is what has me wondering.  Especially where the source writes mostly about Oilers and primarily the Edmonton Journal.

[cross16]

I don't disagree with the article, as I have been spouting it for some time now this season.  The source is what I question.  JW is a renowned Oiler blogger/writer.  It's funny how this was written around the time rumors of Calgary trying to make a trade with NYI, and the Oilers were said to be in the mix.  

 

No, I don't wear a tinfoil hat.  Some of the columnists that cover the Oilers get inside info because of the favourable press they give the Oilers.  When the jerseys were being tossed and the cry was Fire Lowe, few were writing scathing reviews.  Like I said the timing is what has me wondering.  Especially where the source writes mostly about Oilers and primarily the Edmonton Journal.

 

TD you definetly wear a tinfoil hat if you think a blogger in Edmonton A) is trying to sabotage a potential Flames trade for Hamonic or that Garth Snows opinion of Russell would be changed by some blogger in Edmonton....

[CheersMan]

Here is a scathing review of Russell. It articulates what a lot of us have been saying.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/the-incredibly-overrated-kris-russell/

 

What a bunch of BS.  This dude needs to grow a pair……eyebrows that is.

If I gotta look at a wall of numbers, then split hairs to fuel my agenda, then something's wrong.

Watch the game boys, just watch the darn game and draw your own conclusions.

Russell however may become a victim of the salary cap at seasons end due to the contracts the Flames are committed to.  

[cross16]

What a bunch of BS.  This dude needs to grow a pair……eyebrows that is.

If I gotta look at a wall of numbers, then split hairs to fuel my agenda, then something's wrong.

Watch the game boys, just watch the darn game and draw your own conclusions.

Russell however may become a victim of the salary cap at seasons end due to the contracts the Flames are committed to.  

 

Well problem is a lot of us have watched the games and have come to the same conclusions that article did.

 

There are times I think advanced stats creates issues that aren't there but there are times too were they corroborate what you already thought. This is one of those times.

[jjgallow]

I think not only should we keep Russell - Wideman together, that should become the defacto "top pair".  After that, I think Brodie - Engellend could work.  When it all comes down to it, I trust Engellend more than i do Diaz, Potter, and Schlemko.  I would go Schlemko - Diaz as the bottom pair.

 

All in all, our D looks sad without Giordano.  Arguably bottom 5 in the NHL.

 

We need at least one more top D prospect.   Hamilton gives us hope.  We need One more of those trades.  minimum.

[mike_jones]

Maybe all the NHL teams have figured out the Flames stretch pass this season which results in bad goals in the Flames end and lack of scoring opportunities.  Has Gio fully recovered from his injury?

 

Through 24 GP last season

 

                         GP G  A  PTS  +/-

Mark Giordano  24  6  18  24  +12

TJ Brodie          24  5  15  20  +15

D. Wideman      24  8   5   13  +1

  

 

Through 24 GP this season

 

Mark Giordano  24  5  3  8  -15

TJ Brodie          15  2  5  7   -2

D. Wideman      24  0  9  9  -9

 

 

So Calgary's top 3 dmen, THIS season combined, equate to Mark Giordano's point total through 24 games last season.

 

This time last season, TJ Brodie was leading the NHL in +/- and the Flames top 3, combined a +28.  This season, Captain Mark Giordano, is a team worst -15, and the top 3 combined is a -26.

 

Flames top 3 had 18 goals at this time last season, compared to the 7 they have this season.  

 

Then they acquire Dougie Hamilton, who through 24 games last season...

 

Dougie Hamiltion  24  5  9  14  +4

 

                VS

 

Dougie Hamilton   24  2   3  5  -6

 

 

It really is amazing how weak our back end has been this year compared to last.  Not even a Miikka Kiprusoff could save us at this point.

 

[tmac70]

Maybe all the NHL teams have figured out the Flames stretch pass this season which results in bad goals in the Flames end and lack of scoring opportunities.  Has Gio fully recovered from his injury?

 

Through 24 GP last season

 

                         GP G  A  PTS  +/-

Mark Giordano  24  6  18  24  +12

TJ Brodie          24  5  15  20  +15

D. Wideman      24  8   5   13  +1

  

 

Through 24 GP this season

 

Mark Giordano  24  5  3  8  -15

TJ Brodie          15  2  5  7   -2

D. Wideman      24  0  9  9  -9

 

 

So Calgary's top 3 dmen, THIS season combined, equate to Mark Giordano's point total through 24 games last season.

 

This time last season, TJ Brodie was leading the NHL in +/- and the Flames top 3, combined a +28.  This season, Captain Mark Giordano, is a team worst -15, and the top 3 combined is a -26.

 

Flames top 3 had 18 goals at this time last season, compared to the 7 they have this season.  

 

Then they acquire Dougie Hamilton, who through 24 games last season...

 

Dougie Hamiltion  24  5  9  14  +4

 

                VS

 

Dougie Hamilton   24  2   3  5  -6

 

 

It really is amazing how weak our back end has been this year compared to last.  Not even a Miikka Kiprusoff could save us at this point.

Great points Mike. After watching multiple games the opposition play us way different. Last year our Dman got shots through to the net this year, lanes are blocked, the stretch pass is eliminated and JG is shadowed and not allowed time and space. The first 2 create many turnovers and odd man rushes. This club is easy to play against, poor puck possession, tons of turnovers, small and slow

[AlbertaBoy12]

Great points Mike. After watching multiple games the opposition play us way different. Last year our Dman got shots through to the net this year, lanes are blocked, the stretch pass is eliminated and JG is shadowed and not allowed time and space. The first 2 create many turnovers and odd man rushes. This club is easy to play against, poor puck possession, tons of turnovers, small and slow

Ive said it before on the forums when your forwards fly the zone looking for that stretch pass, and the other team forechecks correctly it makes it difficult on your D, leading to turnovers which leads you to getting hemmed in your own zone. Don cherry probably has a heart attack watching the flames throw the puck up the boards and half the time the winger isent there but hes out at the red line, the way we are playing needs to change.

 

The problem ultimately is BH seems dead set on continuing to play this way whenour D zone coverage is bad, our breakout is bad and we really spend more time in our own zone every night based on systems alone. 

[travel_dude]

Ive said it before on the forums when your forwards fly the zone looking for that stretch pass, and the other team forechecks correctly it makes it difficult on your D, leading to turnovers which leads you to getting hemmed in your own zone. Don cherry probably has a heart attack watching the flames throw the puck up the boards and half the time the winger isent there but hes out at the red line, the way we are playing needs to change.

 

The problem ultimately is BH seems dead set on continuing to play this way whenour D zone coverage is bad, our breakout is bad and we really spend more time in our own zone every night based on systems alone. 

 

I watched the Leaf (bury) beat the Oilers last night.  If our defensive system or breakout approach matched that used by the Leafs, we would be winning a lot more games.  Can we rent Babcock for a few weeks?

[AlbertaBoy12]

I watched the Leaf (bury) beat the Oilers last night.  If our defensive system or breakout approach matched that used by the Leafs, we would be winning a lot more games.  Can we rent Babcock for a few weeks?

Lmao maybe we should have offered him 60 million dollars over 8 years