The Official Calgary Flames "New Arena" thread

[cross16]

46 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Stamps are fine where they are and I wouldn't go overboard spending on the CFL. I would say if they could do something on the West end location for Football and Soccer indoors it should get supported.

 

Stamps are definitely not fine. Their attendance has been falling and I would argue it's actually in a pretty dire position. They don't even sell out playoff games anymore (and that's with basically giving tickets away) and there were games (mind you weather was a factor) where they was probably less than 10,000 fans in the stands. That's not all due to McMahon but I know many people where it is a huge factor (including me personally). Going to games there is just a really negative experience for the most part. 

 

I understand many don't care about the CFL and that's fair and understandable if you can't get behind it however. 

[MAC331]

16 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Stamps are definitely not fine. Their attendance has been falling and I would argue it's actually in a pretty dire position. They don't even sell out playoff games anymore (and that's with basically giving tickets away) and there were games (mind you weather was a factor) where they was probably less than 10,000 fans in the stands. That's not all due to McMahon but I know many people where it is a huge factor (including me personally). Going to games there is just a really negative experience for the most part. 

 

I understand many don't care about the CFL and that's fair and understandable if you can't get behind it however. 

All true, maybe I should have said "fine for now". I like the proposal that came out yesterday which practically keeps the same location which also benefits the U of C activities.

[cross16]

41 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

All true, maybe I should have said "fine for now". I like the proposal that came out yesterday which practically keeps the same location which also benefits the U of C activities.

 

I was quite intrigued and would really like to know more. Here is a link in case anyone didn't see it https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/former-mayoral-candidate-developer-selling-new-mcmahon-centre-project. Seems very preliminary however

 

Flames will always take priority and I get that and don't disagree. But if you want to talk about priority in terms of quality of facilities I think the Stamps and McMahon would be first in line. Far worse shape than the dome. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

30 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I was quite intrigued and would really like to know more. Here is a link in case anyone didn't see it https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/former-mayoral-candidate-developer-selling-new-mcmahon-centre-project. Seems very preliminary however

 

Flames will always take priority and I get that and don't disagree. But if you want to talk about priority in terms of quality of facilities I think the Stamps and McMahon would be first in line. Far worse shape than the dome. 

Is Calgary getting a team in the new canadian soccer league? If so then it gives the staduim project more than 8 Stamps games, some concerts, and Dino games. (if the Dinos play there). Compare that to 41 Flames games, Hitmen games, Inferno games? wrestling, more concerts, etc. You could probably see why the attention is more on the arena side. 

 

Excuse my ignorance if I missed any more events or if said events are hosted elsewhere.

[cross16]

11 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Is Calgary getting a team in the new canadian soccer league? If so then it gives the staduim project more than 8 Stamps games, some concerts, and Dino games. (if the Dinos play there). Compare that to 41 Flames games, Hitmen games, Inferno games? wrestling, more concerts, etc. You could probably see why the attention is more on the arena side. 

 

Excuse my ignorance if I missed any more events or if said events are hosted elsewhere.

 

They are yes, the Calvary FC. They are going to play out of Spruce Meadows initially. Not sure if they are involved in the McMahon discussions at all.

 

And just to clarify I absolutely understand why the focus is on the arena and I don't disagree with that. What I was saying trying to say was if we wanted to discuss priorities only using quality of facilities, then McMahon would be first. 

 

This is a long winded way for me to say that McMahon is in far worse shape then the Dome

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

41 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

They are yes, the Calvary FC. They are going to play out of Spruce Meadows initially. Not sure if they are involved in the McMahon discussions at all.

 

And just to clarify I absolutely understand why the focus is on the arena and I don't disagree with that. What I was saying trying to say was if we wanted to discuss priorities only using quality of facilities, then McMahon would be first. 

 

This is a long winded way for me to say that McMahon is in far worse shape then the Dome

Just hope that when the time comes they dont end up with the engineering/construction fiasco the IG field here in Winnipeg is going through. Rush job (still opened behind schedule), cost overruns, and needing structural and drainage repairs from the start.

I got a feeling there will be rumblings on replacing the MTS centre in a couple years also.  It will be 15 years old soon ya know.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

They are yes, the Calvary FC. They are going to play out of Spruce Meadows initially. Not sure if they are involved in the McMahon discussions at all.

 

And just to clarify I absolutely understand why the focus is on the arena and I don't disagree with that. What I was saying trying to say was if we wanted to discuss priorities only using quality of facilities, then McMahon would be first. 

 

This is a long winded way for me to say that McMahon is in far worse shape then the Dome

I would rather see a complex to host Football, Track and Field events for this site proposal

[cross16]

Small arena update. Going behind closed doors and not sure yet if this "proposal" will be made public.

 

 

[The_Tribal Chief]

https://globalnews.ca/news/4981661/calgary-flames-arena-city-council-proposal/

 

Here is also a report i found

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, The_Snowbear said:

https://globalnews.ca/news/4981661/calgary-flames-arena-city-council-proposal/

 

Here is also a report i found

The conceptual design looks like a big greenhouse on a flood plain.

This whole build it on/near the Stampede grounds looks incredibly short-sighted to me.

Does the $600 mil include future cleanups?

Get off of the flood plain, for god sakes.

[cross16]

Jeff Davison, the head of the committee on the Event Center put out an FAQ on the work the committee has done. Has been presented to council and they are awaiting a mandate to bring their proposal back to CESC. 

 

https://www.jeffdavisonyyc.com/blog/eventcentreqanda

[Cowtownguy]

8 hours ago, cross16 said:

Jeff Davison, the head of the committee on the Event Center put out an FAQ on the work the committee has done. Has been presented to council and they are awaiting a mandate to bring their proposal back to CESC. 

 

https://www.jeffdavisonyyc.com/blog/eventcentreqanda

I am not sure his answer about consultation was particularly compelling.

[travel_dude]

 

BREAKING: Strategy to fund all FOUR major projects, including an arena, PASSES 11-4

Gondek yes Sutherland yes Woolley no Keating yes Chahal yes Demong no Farkas no Chu yes Magliocca yes Davison yes Farrell no Jones yes Carra yes Colley-Urquhart yes Nenshi yes

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

BREAKING: Strategy to fund all FOUR major projects, including an arena, PASSES 11-4

Gondek yes Sutherland yes Woolley no Keating yes Chahal yes Demong no Farkas no Chu yes Magliocca yes Davison yes Farrell no Jones yes Carra yes Colley-Urquhart yes Nenshi yes

 

Our city is so behind.  Wish we had a strategy to find all four major projects 10-years ago so we could've avoided having no money for any projects today.

 

A good start I guess even if it's just a show of support in principle. I'd really like to know what kind of strategy they have to raise $300-mil out of thin air.

[cross16]

10 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Our city is so behind.  Wish we had a strategy to find all four major projects 10-years ago so we could've avoided having no money for any projects today.

 

A good start I guess even if it's just a show of support in principle. I'd really like to know what kind of strategy they have to raise $300-mil out of thin air.

 

Agreed. Not to mention what was gained by the hard line stance they took with the Flames only to come back a few years later with a bunch more money?

 

So many more steps to this and i'll wait for more information but their process seems off to me. Hopefully there is a fair deal in here and not the city just giving in and giving the Flames a pile of cash. 

[phoenix66]

FWIW  I read this morning but now cant find it again , that one councillor stated, this deal is better than the one offered last time . So maybe the City Council is finally getting a clue .

[cross16]

22 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

FWIW  I read this morning but now cant find it again , that one councillor stated, this deal is better than the one offered last time . So maybe the City Council is finally getting a clue .

 

The deal is better.. for the Flames apparently.. 

 

If that's true I will say this will probably be the biggest civic blunder I will have seen in my time being back in Calgary. 

 

 

[phoenix66]

10 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

The deal is better.. for the Flames apparently.. 

 

If that's true I will say this will probably be the biggest civic blunder I will have seen in my time being back in Calgary. 

 

 

 

I disagree, they are finding a way to include the Arena/ Flames in already targeted area. This will allow the CRL to be in play where it wasn't before. Instead of just "funding an arena" they are creating a district , which the Flames will be an anchor for . I always did prefer NEXT but the vision on this sounds like win win .

This area upgrade is going to happen with or without an arena, but the City knows its stronger ,with it , and the Flames I also read have already said they are open to the "concept" and the area.. just a matter now of agreeing who pays for what .

I suspect , it will be equal to the amount the Flames have already said in the past they are willing to pay ..biggest sticking point last time was the CRL, the Flames proposal requested the City use it , the City refused to and wanted the equivalent amount from the Flames themselves

 

 

 

[cross16]

15 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

 

I disagree, they are finding a way to include the Arena/ Flames in already targeted area. This will allow the CRL to be in play where it wasn't before. Instead of just "funding an arena" they are creating a district , which the Flames will be an anchor for . I always did prefer NEXT but the vision on this sounds like win win .

This area upgrade is going to happen with or without an arena, but the City knows its stronger ,with it , and the Flames I also read have already said they are open to the "concept" and the area.. just a matter now of agreeing who pays for what .

I suspect , it will be equal to the amount the Flames have already said in the past they are willing to pay ..biggest sticking point last time was the CRL, the Flames proposal requested the City use it , the City refused to and wanted the equivalent amount from the Flames themselves

 

 

 

 

Putting my own personal/political views aside for a minute.

 

That has not changed. When this whole thing blew up almost 2 years ago a CRL was in play, as was a district so what's changed? Why take such a hard line stance on negotiations and made it look to silly publicly only to come back to the table and give them a better deal you publicly already said was unfair?

 

Like I said i'm willing to wait for the numbers but so far this story is just feeling like a big sell job to me. City is taking an old product, putting it in a fancier box so they can re market it as new and at a new price tag. 

 

[phoenix66]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Putting my own personal/political views aside for a minute.

 

That has not changed. When this whole thing blew up almost 2 years ago a CRL was in play, as was a district so what's changed? Why take such a hard line stance on negotiations and made it look to silly publicly only to come back to the table and give them a better deal you publicly already said was unfair?

 

Like I said i'm willing to wait for the numbers but so far this story is really making me believe the City just caved, and rather than admit that they'll take an old product, re package it as new and sell it to us again but this time for an inflated price. 

 

I definitely want to see numbers as well, just like the new approach 

 

Biggest difference was on both options (NEXT and Vic Park)  the city wasn't including them in the Big Plan , Flames were told No both times , stating the CRL was already being used, No CRL was offered by the City in any of their proposals

I know it sounds like a play on words and the critics will argue it , but last time around it was an Arena Deal..now its an event center , they really are revitalizing an area ..

 

other big thing is aside from a council vote , Nenshi is not involved .. it was truly personal to him that this does not happen. I give Davison a lot of credit , he found a way to trap Nenshi in that if hes votes against it hes voting against his baby,, revamp of Vic Park

 

but yes, I want details before I truly say like or dislike ..I just like the concept, and I also agree it should keep staying out of public until they actually have something to say 

[The_People1]

14 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Why take such a hard line stance on negotiations and made it look to silly publicly only to come back to the table and give them a better deal you publicly already said was unfair?

 

Well, from what I understand, the hard stance came from Nenshi mainly.  This latest proposal from the city appears to have kept Nenshi out of it.

 

Nenshi voted to "find a strategy to fund the project", which is not to be confused with "Nenshi has accepted funding the project".  Two different things.  So we'll see.

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

 

Biggest difference was on both options (NEXT and Vic Park)  the city wasn't including them in the Big Plan , Flames were told No both times , stating the CRL was already being used, No CRL was offered by the City in any of their proposals.

 

From what I remember, the Flames originally proposed the city use a CRL setup to make the money back for NEXT.  So while the city never said so, I think Cross was just saying the Flames originally did.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

 

other big thing is aside from a council vote , Nenshi is not involved .. it was truly personal to him that this does not happen. I give Davison a lot of credit , he found a way to trap Nenshi in that if hes votes against it hes voting against his baby,, revamp of Vic Park

 

I'm not sure how Nenshi is trapped?

 

From what is known, Nenshi wants Victoria Park revitalized with a new arena.  Cost about $600-mil.  This most recent idea costs $1.5-bil?

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'm not sure how Nenshi is trapped?

 

From what is known, Nenshi wants Victoria Park revitalized with a new arena.  Cost about $600-mil.  This most recent idea costs $1.5-bil?

He always viewed the arena separate, until election time when he fumbled and showed it there ..  now they have defined it as ONE project (made of up of 4 projects)  if one fails they likely all fail ..this is what Nenshi has chosen as his legacy , and hes aware he may only get one final term to do it

 

Here are the 2 Vic Park failed proposals, i wont get  into the good or bad of either, just that the City Never offered to use the CRL..That I think will be the biggest thing that allows this to get headway this time 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cross16]

20 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I definitely want to see numbers as well, just like the new approach 

 

Biggest difference was on both options (NEXT and Vic Park)  the city wasn't including them in the Big Plan , Flames were told No both times , stating the CRL was already being used, No CRL was offered by the City in any of their proposals

I know it sounds like a play on words and the critics will argue it , but last time around it was an Arena Deal..now its an event center , they really are revitalizing an area ..

 

other big thing is aside from a council vote , Nenshi is not involved .. it was truly personal to him that this does not happen. I give Davison a lot of credit , he found a way to trap Nenshi in that if hes votes against it hes voting against his baby,, revamp of Vic Park

 

but yes, I want details before I truly say like or dislike ..I just like the concept, and I also agree it should keep staying out of public until they actually have something to say 

 

What you are saying may be factual true, but like I said earlier all this is for me is a fancy way of delivering what is essentially the same message. All of this was on the table 2 years ago so if if was Nenshi as the only road block then(doubt it as he is just a mere 1 vote on council) Council should have found a way around it instead of delaying everything 2 years. 

 

But this council is a small step above useless so this really doesn't surprise me at all, it's just disappointing to get dragged through all of this to yield what appears to be heading to the same result everyone could have had years ago.