The Official Calgary Flames "New Arena" thread

[Cowtownguy]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Has any candidate pledged to march up to Edmonton and Parliament Hill in Ottawa to demand funds from Notley and Trudeau to clean up the creosote in West village?  That's the candidate we should back. 

 

If we can get the creosote cleaned up by other levels of government, then we can circle back to the CalgaryNext vision, which I believe is the vision we all want in our hearts.

That is a good question. I would have seriously considered such a platform. I am really turned off most of the candidates who argue "lower taxes, increased spending, vibrant communities". What a joke. The first two are contradictory while the latter is so general that it is meaningless. Why not just say "Calgary Strong!"?

 

I also agree with you that CalgaryNext is an intriguing possibility. At over a billion, I am not sure that it is feasible. One would think that funding could be obtained from other levels of government, if only to clean up the creosote. Sadly, these tools will wait until a lawsuit is in play or people start dying from strange illnesses. Real progressive. 

[420since1974]

3 weeks ago, I emailed all of the mayoral candidates regarding their positions on:

1. Field House

2. New Stadium

3. New Arena

4. Creosote Removal

 

A couple didn't reply at all.

Several had vague positions on a Field House, Stadium, &/or Arena.

NONE of them offered any answers about the Creosote.

[stubblejumper1]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Has any candidate pledged to march up to Edmonton and Parliament Hill in Ottawa to demand funds from Notley and Trudeau to clean up the creosote in West village?  That's the candidate we should back. 

 

If we can get the creosote cleaned up by other levels of government, then we can circle back to the CalgaryNext vision, which I believe is the vision we all want in our hearts.

 

That is an interesting idea. 

 

Calgary might get help from Notley, but Trudeau wouldn’t even answer the phone if he saw a 403 number on call display.  

[The_Tribal Chief]

Well Personally I sincerly Liked What Chabot Said Sounded Alot more Positive then Nenshi was And seemed like he wanted to go that Extra mile to help the flames Get a new Arena by not just the City footing the Bill now we may all say what investors would want in but that is more then Nenshi is offering right now imo

[travel_dude]

On 10/13/2017 at 8:10 PM, stubblejumper1 said:

 

That is an interesting idea. 

 

Calgary might get help from Notley, but Trudeau wouldn’t even answer the phone if he saw a 403 number on call display.  

 

Maybe she can call from the Lg and Trudeau will see the 780 area code and think it's McDavid calling.  He would answer then.

[redfire11]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Maybe she can call from the Lg and Trudeau will see the 780 area code and think it's McDavid calling.  He would answer then.

I could see the 780 code working to reach Justin. The new facilities Aurora Cannabis Inc. is setting up near the Edm. airport. He would answer hoping it was ACI with free samples.

[Carty]

1 hour ago, redfire11 said:

I could see the 780 code working to reach Justin. The new facilities Aurora Cannabis Inc. is setting up near the Edm. airport. He would answer hoping it was ACI with free samples.

 

More than just a few free samples...   I'm thinking he bought a major chunk of shares on the condition that he could routinely be supplied with 'quality control' samples before he even made the announcement for legalization on July 1st...   I can just imagine how that goes... "Um, uh, uh...   Yeah, uh, that's uh, pretty good... um, stuff"...

[The_People1]

 

 

[cross16]

Flames director of communication. He has since deleted the tweet 

 

 

[xmiika]

44 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Flames director of communication. He has since deleted the tweet 

 

 

It would be kind of ironic if Nenshi wins by 19289 votes...

[The_People1]

What's worse for the Flames is that all the incumbent councillors are back.  The Flames have to go back to the negotiating table with the exact government pre-election.

 

Nothing changed.

 

Which leads me to believe it's the Flames who need to change.  If the Flames can't get a new arena with King as rep, then King needs to step down and let someone else interface with Nenshi.  If King refuses to step down and pursues taking the Flames to another city instead, then he's going to have some very unhappy fans.

[Cowtownguy]

The Flames' director of communication generates a childish tweet like that, erases it (as if that means it never happened somehow) and Nenshi is the one considered arrogant? When he spills coffee on his shirt at meetings, does he declare that he has his invisibility cloak on too? If this is indicative of what the city has had to deal with, I am not surprised that an arena deal has not been completed. Then again, it is my understanding that they are no longer seeking a new arena, which they are, but they are not. 

 

The UCP has entered municipal politics. This much was clear when it was reported that people on the UCP mailing list were contacted by Smith's office when there was no other way for their email to be obtained. I find that development rather unfortunate and will likely be met with an organized reaction next time. Dirty pool.

 

I am not sure if the Flames' strategy has been created by King or if he just gets his marching orders from above. Every move seems to be met with serious blow back. The overall strategy seems absent and prone to impulsive personal outbursts. This whole process needs to begin again from scratch. This is not a big loss for the Flames as it appears little effort went into the original strategy. 

[CheersMan]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

What's worse for the Flames is that all the incumbent councillors are back.  The Flames have to go back to the negotiating table with the exact government pre-election.

 

Nothing changed.

 

Which leads me to believe it's the Flames who need to change.  If the Flames can't get a new arena with King as rep, then King needs to step down and let someone else interface with Nenshi.  If King refuses to step down and pursues taking the Flames to another city instead, then he's going to have some very unhappy fans.

I’m pretty sure the Flames have said they have exhausted every avenue and are done negotiating with this council.  They will continue to play in the Dome until a better offer comes their way.  The only difference now is that Flames are free to entertain attractive propositions from other thriving cities in NA that want NHL action.  This has turned into a competitive thing similar to the way cities are competing to land Amazon.  Nenshi has lost the privilege of being the sole negotiator with the Flames, he needs to take a number and stand in line now.  Now there’s leadership at its finest.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

I’m pretty sure the Flames have said they have exhausted every avenue and are done negotiating with this council.  They will continue to play in the Dome until a better offer comes their way.  The only difference now is that Flames are free to entertain attractive propositions from other thriving cities in NA that want NHL action.  This has turned into a competitive thing similar to the way cities are competing to land Amazon.  Nenshi has lost the privilege of being the sole negotiator with the Flames, he needs to take a number and stand in line now.  Now there’s leadership at its finest.

 

Whether I agree with the strategies used by both sides, this is inevitable.  I don't know that many cities would offer an Edmonton-like deal, but there is a chance.  Much better paying for a new barn than the expansion fee.  

 

Just like the value provided by having a NHL is hard to quantify, so will the loss of a team.  People will be out of work directly.  Businesses will fold up shop.  Blame will go to the city and to the province for policies that drive away business.  The creosote site will remain the same.  Reasons for impact to the economy will be argues by politicians and economists.    

[The_People1]

7 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

I’m pretty sure the Flames have said they have exhausted every avenue and are done negotiating with this council.  They will continue to play in the Dome until a better offer comes their way.  The only difference now is that Flames are free to entertain attractive propositions from other thriving cities in NA that want NHL action.  This has turned into a competitive thing similar to the way cities are competing to land Amazon.  Nenshi has lost the privilege of being the sole negotiator with the Flames, he needs to take a number and stand in line now.  Now there’s leadership at its finest.

 

CalgaryNext was a great vision but at some point, the Flames have to realize that was a pipe dream.  Failing to get CalgaryNext going, it looked like the Flames demanded to be awed by the city's Plan B.  That's just not being real.  If the Flames move to another city, then that proves the Flames were the ones who were arrogant.

[travel_dude]

29 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

CalgaryNext was a great vision but at some point, the Flames have to realize that was a pipe dream.  Failing to get CalgaryNext going, it looked like the Flames demanded to be awed by the city's Plan B.  That's just not being real.  If the Flames move to another city, then that proves the Flames were the ones who were arrogant.

 

The biggest difference between the city and CSEC is who owns or should own the building.  Paying taxes on the building, not a small sum of money.  If the Flames move, then both sides look dumb.  Actually, if the Flames move, it's a business transaction, not a decision to move.  The new owners may not be in any better position with regards to taxpayer funded digs.

[The_People1]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/naheed-nenshis-re-election-means-new-flames-arena-talks/

[travel_dude]

43 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/naheed-nenshis-re-election-means-new-flames-arena-talks/

 

I would say that they are in no different state today then they were two weeks ago.  Maybe it was a tactic to walk away from the table.  Maybe they don't see the current environment conducive to making any deal.  Either way, nothing has changed.  Nenshi is not going to change his stance now.  He was (supposedly) elected because of his stance.  

 

If the Olympic bid has any traction, the city will be building the arena.  They can lease or rent it to the Flames, which is a better proposal (to the CSEC) than what the Flames were offering.  If a business does not see a benefit for paying (almost) entirely for a new building, then they won't push for one, they will sell the franchise.  Business is business.  

[The_People1]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The biggest difference between the city and CSEC is who owns or should own the building.  Paying taxes on the building, not a small sum of money.  If the Flames move, then both sides look dumb.  Actually, if the Flames move, it's a business transaction, not a decision to move.  The new owners may not be in any better position with regards to taxpayer funded digs.

 

That's true.  "Move" is not the right word.  Murray Edwards can't physically move to Seattle or Quebec.  He needs to stay in Calgary to run his $50-billion Canadian Natural Resources Limited.   He will "sell" the team, perhaps immediately after securing a good arena deal in the new city.

 

In other words, everybody loses because Edwards will lose the privilege of owning an NHL team.

[cross16]

I'm not going to hold my breath on an Olympic bid. I haven't heard many good things come out of the bid process or the bid team and basically the exact same council is return and for the last 4 years they've made it pretty clear they don't seem to really care about sport in Calgary. 

 

It's going to come down to how Nenshi views his legacy and what tag he is most comfortable with. the mayor who let the flames leave town or the mayor who caved to the big bad private corporation and gave Calgarians a bad deal on the arena. I know i've been a staunch advocate for the "Flames aren't leaving idea" but with yesterdays results I think the chances the Flames would leave are no longer at zero. I don't suspect you are going to see Murray Edwards back at a negotiation table anytime soon, that move is going to have to come from Nenshi who is making it pretty clear he has no intention of doing so. 

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

That's true.  "Move" is not the right word.  Murray Edwards can't physically move to Seattle or Quebec.  He needs to stay in Calgary to run his $50-billion Canadian Natural Resources Limited.   He will "sell" the team, perhaps immediately after securing a good arena deal in the new city.

 

In other words, everybody loses because Edwards will lose the privilege of owning an NHL team.

 

I don't think it matters to him if the new city will pay for the arena.  All it matters is the value of the team, versus the cost of keeping it.  Maybe a city like Houston wants a NHL team.  Lots of oil money there.  And it's not like you are buying an expansion team that will take years to be a contender.  

 

EDIT - Then there could be epic BOT games.  Last goal wins.

[JTech780]

IMO, the while we are done looking for a new arena fiasco, was just poor attempt to strong arm voters into voting out Nenshi, and what they found out was that they don't have the sway or pull that they thought they did. 

 

Now the Flames ownership has backed themselves into a bit of a corner, where they are going to have to wait for Nenshi to reopen negotiations, and invite King and co. back to the table.

 

I still have very little doubt that this arena deal gets done, but now the ownership have to realize that they can't strong arm the city into giving them the exact deal that they want.

[420since1974]

One of Nenshi's most publicised platform points was the East Village Entertainment District, which was to include an arena.

So, he can either renege on his campaign promise, or restart negotiations with someone, at some point in the next few years.

With or without the CSEC; the City of Calgary will still need an arena, and will want a major tenant for it.

 

The IOC has stated that they are willing to work with Calgary to reduce costs, so maybe a successful Olympic bid is not so unreasonable to expect.

The Saddledome was a "state of the art" facility when built in 1983, mainly because the federal and provincial governments had committed to pay $270M towards the 1988 Winter Olympics.

I don't think that it is unreasonable to expect the same level of support (inflation adjusted) for another Winter Olympics in Canada.

This time around, not all of the facilities would need to be built from scratch.

A new Arena, Athletes Village, and the 70 & 90 Metre ski jumps must be rebuilt.

The rest of the venues can be reused with minor upgrades.

 

Negotiations on a new arena might be a lot less acrimonious with "outside" money in the game.

[Cowtownguy]

6 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

That's true.  "Move" is not the right word.  Murray Edwards can't physically move to Seattle or Quebec.  He needs to stay in Calgary to run his $50-billion Canadian Natural Resources Limited.   He will "sell" the team, perhaps immediately after securing a good arena deal in the new city.

 

In other words, everybody loses because Edwards will lose the privilege of owning an NHL team.

A minor quibble. He doesn't live in Calgary. He lives in the UK. 

 

Maybe I will keep my eye on Florida. I assume that they will be more than happy to move to a city like Calgary with our dedicated fans who have a voracious appetite for jerseys etc. They will easily get more than 7,000 fans in the building too. 

 

Is the problem that there are too many franchises for the number of cities that can support ice hockey, or, is it a problem of too many markets and too few franchises to fill them? I believe the former is a more serious problem. Arizona/Phoenix is a never ending saga. Buffalo is always tenuous at best. It is a wonder how Florida has not yet folded. Even the Islanders have arena problems.

 

I lived in Winnipeg when the Jets left. They had major problems getting enough fans to attend games. Local blackouts announced 1/2 hour before games started were common.  Calgary today is not Winnipeg of the 1990s. If you ever attended a Jets game in the Winnipeg arena, you likely didn't drink too much. The steps were seriously steep and when the Jets scores, the second tier waved up and down several feet. It was scary stuff.

[Cowtownguy]

I believe that with the election over, real talks will ensue in terms of a new arena. Negotiating "openly" months before a municipal election was an attempt by the Flames to see what the stomach was for a new arena. I highly doubt that the city or the Flames will ever truly put out their terms publicly. We see what we are allowed to see. No business negotiates openly.