The Official Calgary Flames "New Arena" thread

[The_People1]

The answer for Nenshi of course is, we need a purple bin.  Collection will happen on the first of every month when most people get paid.  Calgarians can donate as much money as they wish towards a new Flames arena.  Cash only.

 

Oh, and you must use some kind of weird bag that Walmart and Superstore is always sold out of...

[AlbertaBoy12]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Zirak is right the fund for the firehouse is unfunded. They have the plans and have set aside the budget for it but they have not made a determination about how to fund it which is frustrating because its been almost 3 years since they decided to build one and they already have the location/plans for it.

 

But I agree with your premise that under the last 2 mayors this city has really not made sports a high priority and that disappointing because there is already so much here to work with. U of C has a great sports medicine and Kinesiology department, athletes from all over the world already come here and we've got 4 "professional" sports teams already here. Would be nice to see the City divert more attention to sport. Doing a bit better with 4 rec centers coming online in the next 2-3 years which is great for Youth but then you run into the problem that is so common in Canada that we can get youth involved but we fail in the transition from youth to high performance. 

 

Instead of the arts and culture district Nenshi wants to create i'd much rather see an arena and field house built with upgrades to McMahon. There is an opportunity to really make Calgary into a high performance athletics destination which probably has as many positive benefits to the city as an art and cultural district does but that's clearly not what Nenshi will focus on. 

I get that taxpayers that dont enjoy sports dont want to spend a ton of money on a hockey arena or football stadium, what ever the case may be. But at the same time I think you and dirtydeeds have made some very good arguments about why the city should be spending the money. I think a city benefits a ton from having a new hockey arena, especially the surrounding area.

 

Ive lived in edmonton for the past few years, and seeing the change to the downtown by building a new arena is just insane. The area around the arena used to be filled with drunk natives(This isent a poke at natives, I hope I dont offend anyone) and drugs more or less, now the construction projects seem to be helping. It has revitalized a downtown area that was sorely struggling and changed a ton in downtown edmonton. 

 

Money is always going to be a hurdle, but this whole idea that the billionaires should fit the bill doesnt make sense to me. Im not saying they dont have money, but generally in business you go where the cost is less, that really doesnt work with sports franchises. I dont want to say they shouldnt fit some of the bill, because they will get the profit, but a hockey arena does a ton for the city as well.

[CheersMan]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I get that taxpayers that dont enjoy sports dont want to spend a ton of money on a hockey arena or football stadium, what ever the case may be. But at the same time I think you and dirtydeeds have made some very good arguments about why the city should be spending the money. I think a city benefits a ton from having a new hockey arena, especially the surrounding area.

 

Ive lived in edmonton for the past few years, and seeing the change to the downtown by building a new arena is just insane. The area around the arena used to be filled with drunk natives(This isent a poke at natives, I hope I dont offend anyone) and drugs more or less, now the construction projects seem to be helping. It has revitalized a downtown area that was sorely struggling and changed a ton in downtown edmonton. 

 

Money is always going to be a hurdle, but this whole idea that the billionaires should fit the bill doesnt make sense to me. Im not saying they dont have money, but generally in business you go where the cost is less, that really doesnt work with sports franchises. I dont want to say they shouldnt fit some of the bill, because they will get the profit, but a hockey arena does a ton for the city as well.

Has Edm done anything to help reduce or eliminate the “undesirables” as you describe?  Or did they just drop a huge building in the middle of their loitering play-ground to displace them?  Sounds like the undesirables are still there, they just moved location.

Our “undesirable” is contaminated waste land on the west side of DT adjacent to a river bank that waters (or poisons) millions of people down stream.  Flames offered $200M to the City to clean it up, kick starting a state of the art multi-facility that meets the requirements to improve every major sporting and entertainment event moving forward.   

Nobody will ever offer money to clean up that land again, the waste land will continue to be passed from generation to generation.  Given the lack of a deal so far, the Flames proposal in West Village is far superior to what the city wants to do with a stand-alone arena on the east side imo. 

[conundrumed]

On 9/18/2017 at 9:47 AM, Mike_Oxlong said:

So many people demonizing the Flames ownership group for walking away from discussions with the city but few people seem to have noted another group that did so just a day later. Arts group walks away from city negotiations to transform old planetarium. 

 

Can anyone propose a more fair way to divvy the costs? I'm not claiming to have the answer or even the best solution.

Sorry to crop your post ox, but I want to focus in on your opening statement.

My struggle in all of this is it's nothing but slant from both sides. They aren't letting us make an educated decision, they're playing wordsmiths to the media, because we are all really, really dumb. Telling us as much as we need to know, and leaving out the naughty bits undoubtedly each is hiding/scripting.

Both sides.

Nenshi is bombastic at best and talks out of both sides of his mouth.

How KK is the CSEC, ahem, spokesperson, is beyond me. He oozes smoke show.

 

I'm so looking forward to Little Caesar's Arena in Detroit. Because I already know Detroit, it'll be a total 180.

"Detroit Pride" will be stamped everywhere, every restaurant will be packed, the venue will bring every act under the sun, because it's built on a pizza empire, lol.

It'll be busy, a lot, and I think we'll be hearing the words, "best venue in NA", a lot.

Suck it Edmonton, lol.

 

As for Calgary, we'll sink $5bil into the East Village in a "good luck" way to up real estate values.

Yet we treat an arena as a cost, and not an investment?

Makes zero sense.

 

As for your tail end question ox, No.

I've said it enough times in this thread, it is totally treated as a cost, not an investment.

Until that mindset changes, they're stalemated.

Based on the City's other investments, as a fan of the sports, kinda feeling like the redheaded stepchild.

 

[AlbertaBoy12]

21 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

Has Edm done anything to help reduce or eliminate the “undesirables” as you describe?  Or did they just drop a huge building in the middle of their loitering play-ground to displace them?  Sounds like the undesirables are still there, they just moved location.

Our “undesirable” is contaminated waste land on the west side of DT adjacent to a river bank that waters (or poisons) millions of people down stream.  Flames offered $200M to the City to clean it up, kick starting a state of the art multi-facility that meets the requirements to improve every major sporting and entertainment event moving forward.   

Nobody will ever offer money to clean up that land again, the waste land will continue to be passed from generation to generation.  Given the lack of a deal so far, the Flames proposal in West Village is far superior to what the city wants to do with a stand-alone arena on the east side imo. 

You are right the undesirables are still around, but it does have to start somewhere and revitalizing an area can be very helpful with that. I dont think there is a perfect situation but you are probably right about very few people offering the money to fixx that area in west village.

[Mike_Oxlong]

45 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

 

Suck it Edmonton

 

You raise a valid point!

 

I had hoped that an option available to us would be to purchase shares in the arena. Thus private individuals could purchase an equity stake in the arena and raise funds for construction. Unfortunately this doesn't appear to be legal in Canada. I'd buy a $500 stake.

[The_People1]

8 minutes ago, Mike_Oxlong said:

You raise a valid point!

 

I had hoped that an option available to us would be to purchase shares in the arena. Thus private individuals could purchase an equity stake in the arena and raise funds for construction. Unfortunately this doesn't appear to be legal in Canada. I'd buy a $500 stake.

 

I guess cross said it best earlier.  If stadiums and arenas were profitable, then there would be investors lining up to build them.  It's almost certainly the worst investment to buy a $500 stake.

 

But I proposed months ago, almost as a joke, that the arena needs to be more than "just an arena".  

 

Engineer a state-of-the-art building that can host the NHL as well as be a solar power facility capable of powering itself and sell energy into the grid.  While it's just sitting there on off days, it's making money.  Not to mention, it's an electric car charging station.  Watch game while charging car, etc.

 

Now that it's a utility building in addition to a sports facility, you have hope to make money on your $500.

[Mike_Oxlong]

Well, when I mentioned the equity stake, the $500 investment would net me a millionth share. Thus an event that generated a million in net profit would earn me a dollar as part owner. That's over-simplifying but it's the gist of the idea.

[cross16]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I guess cross said it best earlier.  If stadiums and arenas were profitable, then there would be investors lining up to build them.  It's almost certainly the worst investment to buy a $500 stake.

 

 

Certainly is but you could appeal to the fan experience. Case in point I own a share in the Green Bay Packers. I get zero capital appreciation, can never sell it for a profit and get to only vote on already approved shareholders, it is strictly a fan item and they did that to raise money for their Stadium renovation. Not sure if that was what Mike OX was referring to or not.

 

But yes that is not legal. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, Mike_Oxlong said:

Well, when I mentioned the equity stake, the $500 investment would net me a millionth share. Thus an event that generated a million in net profit would earn me a dollar as part owner. That's over-simplifying but it's the gist of the idea.

 

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Certainly is but you could appeal to the fan experience. Case in point I own a share in the Green Bay Packers. I get zero capital appreciation, can never sell it for a profit and get to only vote on already approved shareholders, it is strictly a fan item and they did that to raise money for their Stadium renovation. Not sure if that was what Mike OX was referring to or not.

 

But yes that is not legal. 

 

Cryptocurrency then?  

 

Calgary Flames money.  Or City of Calgary "sports and art" money.  Can be used to buy Flames tickets, apparel, stuff, and/or used in Calgary for arts related products.

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, Mike_Oxlong said:

You raise a valid point!

 

I had hoped that an option available to us would be to purchase shares in the arena. Thus private individuals could purchase an equity stake in the arena and raise funds for construction. Unfortunately this doesn't appear to be legal in Canada. I'd buy a $500 stake.

Miss that kind of schooling!

 

Detroit's funding on 1.2 bil, if I remember correctly:

$250mil state bond Olympia(Little Caesar's Pizza) pays

$200mil city bond Olympia pays the interest on. The city gets increased revenue on taxes. An investment, no?

Period.

That's only $800mil short, lol.

Olympia got investors, but damn, that's quite a corporation.

Pizza 73 has to buy us, don't even think about Domino's, I think that's the Detroit Pistons, lol.

[Carty]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Cryptocurrency then?  

 

Calgary Flames money.  Or City of Calgary "sports and art" money.  Can be used to buy Flames tickets, apparel, stuff, and/or used in Calgary for arts related products.

 

At $500 a "share", you would have to buy 1000 shares to buy that ugly piece of crap Bowfort Towers art project that looks like a scaffold some drunks put together out of junk wood...

 

But I guess the "bright minds" running the city thought that supporting a very wealthy New York artist was a good choice during an economic downturn, perhaps they thought it was needed to go along with all the other expensive pieces of so called "art" the city has felt was a good use of taxpayer dollars over the last few years...   We should also be concerned that maybe they figure that new high dollar art center they built should generate several new 'artists'  they can give grants to and buy overpriced ugly crap from ...

 

[Flyerfan52]

Years ago with Jets 1.0 we had fundraisers but it was too little too late. Maybe token shares for the public will show the interest. I wouldn't count on a return worth mentioning but more see it as something like people buying a tile with their name on it on the entrance wall to show their support.

For Jets 2.0 Chipman built MTS Center & waited patiently to buy an NHL team. I remember the governments threw in some $s & tax breaks but think he paid the majority. When he had the chance to buy the Thrashers (originally thought it was the 'Yotes) & needed to expand the arena more tax breaks & $s in the form of low interest loans came into play. End result has TN owning the place so reaping all concession $s along with concert revenue. In a small market that was what did in the original Jets as they paid rent but got only a portion of the gate with nada from over priced beer/hot dogs/parking or even the programs sold in the lobby.

As a result there is construction in the downtown (some done by TN). Even that has tax breaks & concessions like a lot of lottery machines where TN keeps a much higher % of the take than the bars/restaurants do.

 

As far as rejuvenating downtown on game or concert nights there is a higher police pressence to make us feel safe so that is an added cost for now. But when the high end buildings are completed hopefully there are more people around day & night. It won't get rid of the gang bangers & panhandlers but will probably move them to a different area.

************************************************************************************************

& yeah Carty, governments do like to toss money @ artsy things that few see. We have the white elephant known as the Museum of Human Rights built & supported by only tax $s from all levels of government. It's a sink hole for taxes that was supposed to be a tourist destination. The inflated visitor #s are mostly free passes & they even count leaving the main area to check the gift shop & re-entering as 3 visits.

[The_Tribal Chief]

I Honestly Think i can Say im more Scared then i have been in along time this  is my team since i was very very young the only team i have ever cheered for and to just think that if they cant work something out the reprocussions of it scares the life out of me

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike_Oxlong]

13 hours ago, Carty said:

 

At $500 a "share", you would have to buy 1000 shares to buy that ugly piece of crap Bowfort Towers art project that looks like a scaffold some drunks put together out of junk wood...

 

But I guess the "bright minds" running the city thought that supporting a very wealthy New York artist was a good choice during an economic downturn, perhaps they thought it was needed to go along with all the other expensive pieces of so called "art" the city has felt was a good use of taxpayer dollars over the last few years...   We should also be concerned that maybe they figure that new high dollar art center they built should generate several new 'artists'  they can give grants to and buy overpriced ugly crap from ...

 

I wouldn't purchase a $5 share of that piece of $#!t. (Pardon my french) It's a $#@& embarrassment. Part of the problem with the "art" commission or whatever they call themselves, is that they only serve a specific genre of art form. There is an awful lot more to art than the ridiculously interpretive modern stuff. The giant blue hula hoop (Travelling $hite, I think it's called?) and Bowfort Travesty are a problem mainly because they completely lack in context. Personally, I love the art component to the Glenmore Trail project at Chinook Centre. Spawning Salmon adorn the sides of the highway walls, and is really cool! It's an awful lot easier to appreciate than a monumental piece of crap. So why couldn't the Bowfort project have been made to look like the Palliser expedition to the Rockies? Or perhaps something evocative of the CPR's transcontinental railway; maybe that one could've been a posthumous memorial to all the Chinese immigrants who were slaves in all but name in building that railroad? Just sayin' is all.

 

Anyways, that rant is over so I also want to say that I like the idea of the donation to get your name on a memorial tile/plaque/wall for a new arena. I walk past Olympic Plaza almost daily and love seeing the names on the bricks there. Unfortunately the arena would be much less of a legacy project since these types of buildings have very limited lifespans, but the appeal remains.

[The_People1]

15 hours ago, Carty said:

 

At $500 a "share", you would have to buy 1000 shares to buy that ugly piece of crap Bowfort Towers art project that looks like a scaffold some drunks put together out of junk wood...

 

But I guess the "bright minds" running the city thought that supporting a very wealthy New York artist was a good choice during an economic downturn, perhaps they thought it was needed to go along with all the other expensive pieces of so called "art" the city has felt was a good use of taxpayer dollars over the last few years...   We should also be concerned that maybe they figure that new high dollar art center they built should generate several new 'artists'  they can give grants to and buy overpriced ugly crap from ...

 

 

1 hour ago, Mike_Oxlong said:

I wouldn't purchase a $5 share of that piece of $#!t. (Pardon my french) It's a $#@& embarrassment. Part of the problem with the "art" commission or whatever they call themselves, is that they only serve a specific genre of art form. There is an awful lot more to art than the ridiculously interpretive modern stuff. The giant blue hula hoop (Travelling $hite, I think it's called?) and Bowfort Travesty are a problem mainly because they completely lack in context. Personally, I love the art component to the Glenmore Trail project at Chinook Centre. Spawning Salmon adorn the sides of the highway walls, and is really cool! It's an awful lot easier to appreciate than a monumental piece of crap. So why couldn't the Bowfort project have been made to look like the Palliser expedition to the Rockies? Or perhaps something evocative of the CPR's transcontinental railway; maybe that one could've been a posthumous memorial to all the Chinese immigrants who were slaves in all but name in building that railroad? Just sayin' is all.

 

Anyways, that rant is over so I also want to say that I like the idea of the donation to get your name on a memorial tile/plaque/wall for a new arena. I walk past Olympic Plaza almost daily and love seeing the names on the bricks there. Unfortunately the arena would be much less of a legacy project since these types of buildings have very limited lifespans, but the appeal remains.

 

This is getting away from arena talk but, Modern "art" is so troll.  In fact, I used to like it.  I remember visiting Tate Modern in London, UK in 2010 to take in Ai Weiwei's masterpiece.  Sunflower Seeds.

 

 

I have since realized, Modern art is just a part of a larger Leftist agenda to socially appropriate the inappropriate.  Up is down.  Left is right.  Men are women.  That kind of stuff.  Tate Modern is the cesspool of this movement. "Art", if you can even call it that.

 

Luckily, I was able to see some real art of Sunflowers in London thanks to Van Gogh at the National Gallery.

 

Unfortunately, Modern art has spread to the West and our Mayor is buying then like hot cakes.  Giant Blue Ring.  Stones on Wooden Pillars.  Chinook Arc. 

 

 

[Flyerfan52]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

This is getting away from arena talk but, Modern "art" is so troll.  In fact, I used to like it.  I remember visiting Tate Modern in London, UK in 2010 to take in Ai Weiwei's masterpiece.  Sunflower Seeds.

 

 

I have since realized, Modern art is just a part of a larger Leftist agenda to socially appropriate the inappropriate.  Up is down.  Left is right.  Men are women.  That kind of stuff.  Tate Modern is the cesspool of this movement. "Art", if you can even call it that.

 

Luckily, I was able to see some real art of Sunflowers in London thanks to Van Gogh at the National Gallery.

 

Unfortunately, Modern art has spread to the West and our Mayor is buying then like hot cakes.  Giant Blue Ring.  Stones on Wooden Pillars.  Chinook Arc. 

 

 

I'm from "Sunflower Seed Country". Grew up eating "spits".

A Sunflower Festival every year. Even have a huge copy of Van Gogh's "Sunflowers" in the park.

 

Biggest waste I remember is the Canadian government buying "Voice of Fire" for 1.8 million. 3 freaking vertical stripes! Then they hung it upside down.

It wasn't even excusable as supporting Canadian artists as it was done by an American.

[Mike_Oxlong]

If they're going to invest in native inspired art (which the artist claims that it isn't, but we all know it is), why not have an artist from the Tsuu T'ina nation design something? For instance - take a look at this painting by Kalum Teke Dan (Blood Tribe). Wouldn't that be cooler embossed onto the embankment walls than the Bowfort Thing?

 

Also, how about that Arena? I had an interesting discussion at lunch today about it.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, Mike_Oxlong said:

If they're going to invest in native inspired art (which the artist claims that it isn't, but we all know it is), why not have an artist from the Tsuu T'ina nation design something? For instance - take a look at this painting by Kalum Teke Dan (Blood Tribe). Wouldn't that be cooler embossed onto the embankment walls than the Bowfort Thing?

 

Also, how about that Arena? I had an interesting discussion at lunch today about it.

 

Don't be silly.  That actually looks like art.  We can't have that.  We need accredited New Yorkers to tell us what Tsuu T'ina Nation is.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

I'm from "Sunflower Seed Country". Grew up eating "spits".

A Sunflower Festival every year. Even have a huge copy of Van Gogh's "Sunflowers" in the park.

 

Biggest waste I remember is the Canadian government buying "Voice of Fire" for 1.8 million. 3 freaking vertical stripes! Then they hung it upside down.

It wasn't even excusable as supporting Canadian artists as it was done by an American.

 

I had to Google Voice of Fire.  Didn't know what it was as it was before my time.  Geez, imagine we invested $1.8-million in 1989 on internet technology instead.  

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, Mike_Oxlong said:

Also, how about that Arena? I had an interesting discussion at lunch today about it.

Annnddd...?

Did you recruit some high profile investors? lol

[rocketdoctor]

Okay I don't live in Calgary so not my tax dollars but I cannot understand from my vantage point over here in the UK that Calgary City are missing the importance of the Flames and what they bring to area.

 

Just in charity work alone the Flames bring in $ for so many worthy causes.

 

When I was in the Hat a trip to a Flames game was an event.  We spent money on food and beer before the game in the local places and then accomodation and more money on food, fuel etc.  All that ancillary income would be lost if the Flames relocated.   In my simplistic look the city cannot afford not to build a new stadium.  Putting aside the money the city would get in helping solving a pollution problem for generations to come.

 

The idea of putting a $500 down?  Where do I sign up?

[AlbertaBoy12]

Im curious what everyone thinks of the new proposal released this morning at 5 am. Im not a huge fan of ken kings comments, but as with Edmonton it doesn't seem like these arena negotiations can be a pleasant process. 

[cccsberg]

10 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Im curious what everyone thinks of the new proposal released this morning at 5 am. Im not a huge fan of ken kings comments, but as with Edmonton it doesn't seem like these arena negotiations can be a pleasant process. 

Missed it, where was it released?

[AlbertaBoy12]

Just now, cccsberg said:

Missed it, where was it released?

heres a link from flames nation

https://nhl.bamcontent.com/images/assets/binary/291222978/binary-file/file.pdf

 

and then their take on it 

https://flamesnation.ca/2017/09/21/flames-release-their-arena-funding-proposal/