Official Sam Bennett Discussion Thread

[MAC331]

7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I just don't see why you gift Brouwer top line minutes when he couldn't deliver last year with top 6 minutes and PP time.  Here's a link to how Brouwer performed with different players.  The results that you saw with Bennett looked the same with Monahan.  Johnny was a little more able to perform with him.  

 

https://flamesnation.ca/2017/05/24/flamesnation-player-evaluation-troy-brouwer/

 

The only two spots I see where he could contribute right now are the Backlund line or the 4th line.  He can still play 12 minutes on the 4th line.  If he is able to up his value, then move him up.  Janko at center may help hjim immensely (assuming they play him there).  Of course this also depends on Lazar's status.  Unfortunate that you have two players that are projects.  

Read the article and agree with the "Will he Rebound" but where and with whom. The best line may actually be the Backlund/Frolik line for him like cross indicated and keep him away from the young core. He may find himself again with those two.

[MAC331]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

Why is the coach and GM talking about Ferland starting in that spot?  Things can and will change between now and puck drop, but something pretty draftic would need to happen for this scenario, IMHO.  Ferland would have to have a really bad camp/pre-season to drop him in favor of Brouwer.  

 

I'm not saying Brouwer doesn't earn it at camp.  Starting him there for no other reason than giving him opportuinity probably doesn't make sense.

What if they come to the realization Ferland could better help the team elsewhere ? I don't think it has to be about anyone having a bad camp, it is more about making the right decisions relative to having the best team possible.

[AlbertaBoy12]

16 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

What if they come to the realization Ferland could better help the team elsewhere ? I don't think it has to be about anyone having a bad camp, it is more about making the right decisions relative to having the best team possible.

I see what youre saying, but I think they want to build chemistry on lines, not play around trying to see what works. They have stated many times ferland will start the season on the 1st line and I doubt that changes because of the preseason. Brouwer didnt look good there last season, so im not sure why they would suddenly switch him there, because they think ferland would be a better fit on the backlund line. I really doubt besides tkachuk moving to the bennett line(if that even happens) that we see alot of movement in the forward group.

[MAC331]

Just now, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I see what youre saying, but I think they want to build chemistry on lines, not play around trying to see what works. They have stated many times ferland will start the season on the 1st line and I doubt that changes because of the preseason. Brouwer didnt look good there last season, so im not sure why they would suddenly switch him there, because they think ferland would be a better fit on the backlund line. I really doubt besides tkachuk moving to the bennett line(if that even happens) that we see alot of movement in the forward group.

I think we need some movement within our forward lines if we want to improve our 5 on 5 production results and I have to believe this is a GG goal. How many goals did Tkachuk end up with this past season 13G and 35A ? I think we can replace his goals on the Backlund line and use his assists on the Bennett line. Any of Ferland, Versteeg or Brouwer have more experience for the needs for Backlund's line.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

What if they come to the realization Ferland could better help the team elsewhere ? I don't think it has to be about anyone having a bad camp, it is more about making the right decisions relative to having the best team possible.

That would make more sense if they had an alternative already there for top RW.  Maybe I am alone, but I don't see Brouwer as an alternative for #1RW.  It's the scoring line for the Flames.  Maybe it isn't Ferland, but it has to be someone that doesn't make the line worse right out of the gate.  

 

Brouwer could come in and prove the doubters wrong this year, but I think he has to prove something first to get on the top line.  Camp isn't where he proves it.

[MAC331]

29 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

That would make more sense if they had an alternative already there for top RW.  Maybe I am alone, but I don't see Brouwer as an alternative for #1RW.  It's the scoring line for the Flames.  Maybe it isn't Ferland, but it has to be someone that doesn't make the line worse right out of the gate.  

 

Brouwer could come in and prove the doubters wrong this year, but I think he has to prove something first to get on the top line.  Camp isn't where he proves it.

Likely not as to think they will give Ferland his shot there. Honestly I think Brouwer on RW with Backlund and Frolik on LW is putting him to his best use.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Likely not as to think they will give Ferland his shot there. Honestly I think Brouwer on RW with Backlund and Frolik on LW is putting him to his best use.

 

Hey, if Brouwer can excel on the Backlund line, then that makes things easier.  But I also think that is the line least likely to change, even though I want Tkachuk to play elsewhere.  I wonder what the lines would look like without Brouwer in the picture.

 

With Jagr
JH-Mony-Ferland

Frolik-Backlund-Versteeg

Tkachuk-Bennett-Jagr

Stajan-Janko-Lazar

Ex. Freddie, Hathaway

 

Without Jagr

JH-Mony-Ferland

Frolik-Backlund-Versteeg

Tkachuk-Bennett-Foo/Lazar

Stajan-Janko-Lazar/Foo

Ex. Freddie, Hathaway

[AlbertaBoy12]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Hey, if Brouwer can excel on the Backlund line, then that makes things easier.  But I also think that is the line least likely to change, even though I want Tkachuk to play elsewhere.  I wonder what the lines would look like without Brouwer in the picture.

 

With Jagr
JH-Mony-Ferland

Frolik-Backlund-Versteeg

Tkachuk-Bennett-Jagr

Stajan-Janko-Lazar

Ex. Freddie, Hathaway

 

Without Jagr

JH-Mony-Ferland

Frolik-Backlund-Versteeg

Tkachuk-Bennett-Foo/Lazar

Stajan-Janko-Lazar/Foo

Ex. Freddie, Hathaway

I would assume the without Jagr lines are the most likely to happen, but I am a little confused what you did with brouwer in both scenarios? I would assume thats how camp starts, but I think versteeg will play with bennett and brouwer will play with backlund.

[MAC331]

52 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Hey, if Brouwer can excel on the Backlund line, then that makes things easier.  But I also think that is the line least likely to change, even though I want Tkachuk to play elsewhere.  I wonder what the lines would look like without Brouwer in the picture.

 

With Jagr
JH-Mony-Ferland

Frolik-Backlund-Versteeg

Tkachuk-Bennett-Jagr

Stajan-Janko-Lazar

Ex. Freddie, Hathaway

 

Without Jagr

JH-Mony-Ferland

Frolik-Backlund-Versteeg

Tkachuk-Bennett-Foo/Lazar

Stajan-Janko-Lazar/Foo

Ex. Freddie, Hathaway

I'm a firm believer that Jagr's style is a perfect fit for JG/SM and not Bennett. I would not switch Versteeg and Frolik leave them on the wings they prefer.

I want to see a line of Tkachuk, Bennett and Lazar.

They can do what they want with the 4th line but I see Stajan at C and Jankowski in Stockton. I actually would love to see a line of Lomberg, Stajan and Hathaway.

I would be desirable if Brouwer were not here but he is and will have to fit in somewhere.

[AlbertaBoy12]

19 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I'm a firm believer that Jagr's style is a perfect fit for JG/SM and not Bennett.

Bennett is more about the cycle then JG is, and Jagr is well known for his ability to play in the cycle. Id love to see JG/SM able to do that, but I dont really see that happening, so if anything they need someone who can work with them off the rush and get in fast, making things happen. Ferland is great for getting in quick on the forecheck and making good plays to get the puck loose, I dont see Jagr doing that, hes just not quick enough anymore.

 

Bennett on the other hand can create off the rush, but a line of tkachuk/bennett/jagr would be great at cycling the puck and creating plenty of zone time that, another line coming onto the ice could benefit from. If you see it differently im all ears, but I dont see the fit with SM/JG

[MAC331]

12 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Bennett is more about the cycle then JG is, and Jagr is well known for his ability to play in the cycle. Id love to see JG/SM able to do that, but I dont really see that happening, so if anything they need someone who can work with them off the rush and get in fast, making things happen. Ferland is great for getting in quick on the forecheck and making good plays to get the puck loose, I dont see Jagr doing that, hes just not quick enough anymore.

 

Bennett on the other hand can create off the rush, but a line of tkachuk/bennett/jagr would be great at cycling the puck and creating plenty of zone time that, another line coming onto the ice could benefit from. If you see it differently im all ears, but I dont see the fit with SM/JG

Why should I keep explaining why I see it differently than you ? I think Jagr could play with either of them. He does his best work within the O zone and he is as much a threat as JG once inside and that is what is needed in order to free up JG. Who gives a crap about the cycle when you have a line like that to control the open spots on the ice. As far as keeping up I highly doubt Monahan is any faster than Jagr. You may be all ears but you don't seem to listen.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I would assume the without Jagr lines are the most likely to happen, but I am a little confused what you did with brouwer in both scenarios? I would assume thats how camp starts, but I think versteeg will play with bennett and brouwer will play with backlund.

 

It was a "what if" scenario.  What if Brouwer was not in the picture.  Many ways for that to be true, but only injury is likely.  Demote to AHL, healthy scratch, trade, injury.

My point was that the lines wouldn't even be that bad without Brouwer.  

[Flyerfan52]

4 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I would assume the without Jagr lines are the most likely to happen, but I am a little confused what you did with brouwer in both scenarios? I would assume thats how camp starts, but I think versteeg will play with bennett and brouwer will play with backlund.

Brouwer was biking to the market & was brushed by a truck. The driver never realized it as it wasn't even in a bicycle lane. Brouwer broke his ankle & was unable to skate so spent the year on LTIR.

Stick to that story & nobody will ever suspect a thing.

[Flyerfan52]

3 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Bennett is more about the cycle then JG is, and Jagr is well known for his ability to play in the cycle. Id love to see JG/SM able to do that, but I dont really see that happening, so if anything they need someone who can work with them off the rush and get in fast, making things happen. Ferland is great for getting in quick on the forecheck and making good plays to get the puck loose, I dont see Jagr doing that, hes just not quick enough anymore.

 

Bennett on the other hand can create off the rush, but a line of tkachuk/bennett/jagr would be great at cycling the puck and creating plenty of zone time that, another line coming onto the ice could benefit from. If you see it differently im all ears, but I dont see the fit with SM/JG

When the rush doesn't work having Jagr cycle allows for Gaudreau/Monahan to get into the play again.

Having Bennett & Jagr taking turns cycling wastes time & doesn't put the puck in the net.

 

1 cycles, frustrates the defenders & the others set up to score. You can cycle all night & it looks pretty but shifts tend to be short for forwards. With Jagr on the front line it distracts from the other 2 (yes, players will have an eye on a living legend).

 

[redfire11]

I think SB left a little on the table this negotiation. I don't see it as BT getting the "better" but more of a maturity in Sam.  That being said you watch Sam grow his game fundamentally this year and expect a wild breakout next year. A potential payout 2020.

[travel_dude]

11 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

When the rush doesn't work having Jagr cycle allows for Gaudreau/Monahan to get into the play again.

Having Bennett & Jagr taking turns cycling wastes time & doesn't put the puck in the net.

 

1 cycles, frustrates the defenders & the others set up to score. You can cycle all night & it looks pretty but shifts tend to be short for forwards. With Jagr on the front line it distracts from the other 2 (yes, players will have an eye on a living legend).

 

 

I seem to remember a former TML player that did that.  Colborne.  1:00 spent on the cycle, back and forth, and nothing happens.  Puck is turned over.  I really only like the cycle because it tires out defenders.  Gives you time to sneak in a fresh body too.

[AlbertaBoy12]

15 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Why should I keep explaining why I see it differently than you ? I think Jagr could play with either of them. He does his best work within the O zone and he is as much a threat as JG once inside and that is what is needed in order to free up JG. Who gives a crap about the cycle when you have a line like that to control the open spots on the ice. As far as keeping up I highly doubt Monahan is any faster than Jagr. You may be all ears but you don't seem to listen.

You didnt explain a thing though, you just said that you think he could play with either of them, and he is a threat like JG once they get in the offensive zone. My point is the dynamic he adds is more a fit for the bennett line then the mony line. Also a lot of teams around the league give a crap about the cylce, im just saying there is two different dynamics between the way those two lines play. Jagr plays a certain way and has a certain way of playing now that hes older.

[AlbertaBoy12]

11 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

When the rush doesn't work having Jagr cycle allows for Gaudreau/Monahan to get into the play again.

Having Bennett & Jagr taking turns cycling wastes time & doesn't put the puck in the net.

 

1 cycles, frustrates the defenders & the others set up to score. You can cycle all night & it looks pretty but shifts tend to be short for forwards. With Jagr on the front line it distracts from the other 2 (yes, players will have an eye on a living legend).

 

I agree. Im just not 100% sold I see the cycle working with mony/JG as its not really their strong suit, but it could possibly work with Jagr in the fold, as he is a very solid play along the boards. Also I would hope that bennett/Jagr would eventaully work the puck to the slot off the cycle, not just play around with it all night, but who knows in this day and age of hockey.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

You didnt explain a thing though, you just said that you think he could play with either of them, and he is a threat like JG once they get in the offensive zone. My point is the dynamic he adds is more a fit for the bennett line then the mony line. Also a lot of teams around the league give a crap about the cylce, im just saying there is two different dynamics between the way those two lines play. Jagr plays a certain way and has a certain way of playing now that hes older.

That "certain way" IMO is better suited with JG and SM. You think differently and that's fine.

[rickross]

This was supposed to be Sam Bennett's breakout year and so far he's pointless on the season but is tied for team lead in PIMs. Im not sure what it'll take to get this kid going. Do we keep blame it on a lack of consistent/skilled linemates or is it a case of him trying to do too much? He's had little to no impact yet, it's still early in the season but how long do we give him before we consider the real possibility of him being a potential bust?

[MAC331]

9 hours ago, rickross said:

This was supposed to be Sam Bennett's breakout year and so far he's pointless on the season but is tied for team lead in PIMs. Im not sure what it'll take to get this kid going. Do we keep blame it on a lack of consistent/skilled linemates or is it a case of him trying to do too much? He's had little to no impact yet, it's still early in the season but how long do we give him before we consider the real possibility of him being a potential bust?

Here is what I believe to be Bennett's predicament. They are unwilling to break up either Gaudreau and Monahan or Tkachuk and Backlund/Frolik, until GG comes to the realization Bennett needs to be partnered up with either Gaudreau or Tkachuk he will be stuck with lesser talents.

I don't know if anyone else feels this way but every time he plays along side Gaudreau we see an excited player with obvious talent, other situations not so much.

[cross16]

I don't think Bennett will ever be a "bust" because I think he's already shown he's a solid NHLer and that's not a bust. It's still very possible he could be the player he was suppose to be when he drafted but that is going to require a 180 degree change in thinking from the Flames. Unfortunately the issues you see with Bennett predominately are due to the fact that the Flames have done a horrible job with developing him. 

 

Play the kid as a bottom 6 forward and expect bottom 6 forward results. That's what he flames have done and that's what Bennett has produced.

[JTech780]

We are going on season number 2, where Bennett can't control himself with taking dumb penalties. I think that in itself is making it so that GG can't trust him out there. 

 

GG made mention after the game referencing Bennett and Tkachuk without saying their names, that the people who can't control themselves on the ice taking the same dumb penalties as last year are going to lose their prime time ice time.

 

So look for Bennett and Tkachuk to be taken off the PP.

[JTech780]

8 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I don't think Bennett will ever be a "bust" because I think he's already shown he's a solid NHLer and that's not a bust. It's still very possible he could be the player he was suppose to be when he drafted but that is going to require a 180 degree change in thinking from the Flames. Unfortunately the issues you see with Bennett predominately are due to the fact that the Flames have done a horrible job with developing him. 

 

Play the kid as a bottom 6 forward and expect bottom 6 forward results. That's what he flames have done and that's what Bennett has produced.

 

The problem is where else to you play him?

 

Is he better than Monahan or Backlund? No. So he isn't so he isn't getting a top 6 center spot. 

 

Is he better than Gaudreau or Tkachuk? No. So he isn't getting on top 6 LW spot. 

 

The only way he is getting a top 6 spot is if he learns to play RW or you move Tkachuk to his off wing and put Bennett in Tkachuk's spot.

[cross16]

6 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

The problem is where else to you play him?

 

Is he better than Monahan or Backlund? No. So he isn't so he isn't getting a top 6 center spot. 

 

Is he better than Gaudreau or Tkachuk? No. So he isn't getting on top 6 LW spot. 

 

The only way he is getting a top 6 spot is if he learns to play RW or you move Tkachuk to his off wing and put Bennett in Tkachuk's spot.

 

Gaudreau - Monahan - Jagr

Tkachuk - Bennett - Versteeg

Ferland/Lazar - Backs - Frolik

 

I don't agree with the top 6 - bottom 6 set up. You need 3 lines that can do everything if you want to compete. Flow of the game would determine the ice time. Is he better than them today? Probably not. Is he more skilled and does he have the potential to be better? IMO Yes.

 

Flames have failed to develop that potential and instead of opted to run with the devil they know as opposed to the devil they don't. That's disappointing..