Prospect Rankings

[MAC331]

It's kind of early to call a player a bust, when he is playing a top defensive role on a team known for its defense.  History is like advanced stats; good at showing how results fit a pattern, but bad at predicting outcome.

 

He has always been a long-term project, so I expect him to need at least a year in the AHL.  He will just be 21 when he signs with the Flames, and turning 22 just before the 2016/17 season.  I do hope that the Flames try to turn him into more of an offensive forward, though. 

 

Nothing wrong a prospect being raised in a defensive environment at all, actually prefer it. Look what they had to do with Backlund to get him to where he is today.

[DKim]

Is Seiloff back to 100% health?  I remember being excited about him as a Robin Reghr replacement, but the game has changed and I don't know if that style is effective anymore.  Are there anymore high quality bruising defensemen left that you would want on your team?  It's the Lidstrom era, where you want skating, skill and enough size for body control... I don't really see big open ice hits from defensemen anymore, it's usually forward on head down forward in the neutral zone.

 

He was what would have made the Jankowski pick worthwhile, but I think it's bust time.

[cccsberg]

Is Seiloff back to 100% health?  I remember being excited about him as a Robin Reghr replacement, but the game has changed and I don't know if that style is effective anymore.  Are there anymore high quality bruising defensemen left that you would want on your team?  It's the Lidstrom era, where you want skating, skill and enough size for body control... I don't really see big open ice hits from defensemen anymore, it's usually forward on head down forward in the neutral zone.

 

He was what would have made the Jankowski pick worthwhile, but I think it's bust time.

Sieloff is back healthy and hopefully will have a good season of development.  Can't agree on no need for big, bruising defensemen, nor that the NHL has suddenly, fundamentally changed.  We still need all types of players.  And "bust time"?  Give it a break.  

[travel_dude]

Sieloff is back healthy and hopefully will have a good season of development.  Can't agree on no need for big, bruising defensemen, nor that the NHL has suddenly, fundamentally changed.  We still need all types of players.  And "bust time"?  Give it a break.  

 

We sometimes are quick to want to cut bait on a player, but with a d-man you don't always see the results until a bit later, like when they are closer to mid-twenties.  You want to see progression, but really you want to see the glaring weaknesses dealt with.  Skating and scoring are Seiloff's problem right now.  Less concerned with the scoring, as we have 17 other guys in the lineup to put the puck in the net.  A good shutdown d-man that is sound positionally, clears the crease, and has a goog first pass is worth his weight in gold.

 

Seiloff's career was mismanaged from day one.  He will take some doing to get back into the mix, but I give him some time to get there.  He will likely toil away in the AHL until his next contract, then sign a reasonable extension.  If he doesn't fit, he gets dealt like Reinhart.

[DirtyDeeds]

We sometimes are quick to want to cut bait on a player, but with a d-man you don't always see the results until a bit later, like when they are closer to mid-twenties.  You want to see progression, but really you want to see the glaring weaknesses dealt with.  Skating and scoring are Seiloff's problem right now.  Less concerned with the scoring, as we have 17 other guys in the lineup to put the puck in the net.  A good shutdown d-man that is sound positionally, clears the crease, and has a goog first pass is worth his weight in gold.

 

Seiloff's career was mismanaged from day one.  He will take some doing to get back into the mix, but I give him some time to get there.  He will likely toil away in the AHL until his next contract, then sign a reasonable extension.  If he doesn't fit, he gets dealt like Reinhart.

i don't see a season long infection as career mismanagement at all. Sure it was a huge setback but mismanagement.. no

[cross16]

We sometimes are quick to want to cut bait on a player, but with a d-man you don't always see the results until a bit later, like when they are closer to mid-twenties.  You want to see progression, but really you want to see the glaring weaknesses dealt with.  Skating and scoring are Seiloff's problem right now.  Less concerned with the scoring, as we have 17 other guys in the lineup to put the puck in the net.  A good shutdown d-man that is sound positionally, clears the crease, and has a goog first pass is worth his weight in gold.

 

Seiloff's career was mismanaged from day one.  He will take some doing to get back into the mix, but I give him some time to get there.  He will likely toil away in the AHL until his next contract, then sign a reasonable extension.  If he doesn't fit, he gets dealt like Reinhart.

 

While i agree he was moved to the AHL too soon, Deeds is right the staph infection is what has delayed his career to a point.

 

having said that, this is a major concern i had when the drafted Seiloff as he played too aggressive for his frame and he would be constantly hurt. I know you can't predict a staff infection but he got that after he broke his jaw in a fight and then last year he sat for a few games with a sore back.

 

Seiloff is saying he is 100% healthy so i'll take his word for it and hopefully he does make it through a full season but he is not a guy i'm super pumped about. I think he can play in the NHL but I think best case sceanrio is someone at a Derek engelland type level.

[travel_dude]

While i agree he was moved to the AHL too soon, Deeds is right the staph infection is what has delayed his career to a point.

 

having said that, this is a major concern i had when the drafted Seiloff as he played too aggressive for his frame and he would be constantly hurt. I know you can't predict a staff infection but he got that after he broke his jaw in a fight and then last year he sat for a few games with a sore back.

 

Seiloff is saying he is 100% healthy so i'll take his word for it and hopefully he does make it through a full season but he is not a guy i'm super pumped about. I think he can play in the NHL but I think best case sceanrio is someone at a Derek engelland type level.

I know all about the infection.  He was drafted, and played one season with Windsor.  Signed to an ELC (not the worst thing in the world), but hyped to the point that he was on the Heat team.  His 2 games before the injury (broken cheekbone), which ended up causing the staph infection.

 

The mismanagement part, in my view, was slotting him into the AHL too soon.

[cross16]

I know all about the infection.  He was drafted, and played one season with Windsor.  Signed to an ELC (not the worst thing in the world), but hyped to the point that he was on the Heat team.  His 2 games before the injury (broken cheekbone), which ended up causing the staph infection.

 

The mismanagement part, in my view, was slotting him into the AHL too soon.

 

And as i said i agree he should not have been in the AHL but whats to say he doesn't break his jaw and get the infection in Windsor and miss that season? that likely would have put him in the AHL last year anyway. I too never understood the AHL decision but i think it has almost no bearing on where he is in his career right now, that is all due to the staph infection which is not related to him being in the AHL too soon. didn't he break it in an NHL preseason game anyway?

[travel_dude]

And as i said i agree he should not have been in the AHL but whats to say he doesn't break his jaw and get the infection in Windsor and miss that season? that likely would have put him in the AHL last year anyway. I too never understood the AHL decision but i think it has almost no bearing on where he is in his career right now, that is all due to the staph infection which is not related to him being in the AHL too soon. didn't he break it in an NHL preseason game anyway?

 

You are correct about where the injury took place.  It was against Ottawa in the Flames pre-season.  After that, he donned a cage and managed to play for 2 AHL games.  He was basically told that he would be a Flames or a Heat player, and not return to the OHL.  

[DKim]

Sieloff is back healthy and hopefully will have a good season of development.  Can't agree on no need for big, bruising defensemen, nor that the NHL has suddenly, fundamentally changed.  We still need all types of players.  And "bust time"?  Give it a break.  

 

 

I would argue that we have seen a fundamental change following the 04 lockout, but it has not been sudden.  The big bruising stay at home defenseman are being phased out along with the heavyweight enforcer.  I'm not saying that size is not important, because it is. I'm saying the Robin Reghr type - slower, hard hitting, grinding defensemen are not as desirable as a skating positional defenseman who can make good first pass or join the rush.  The transition game has sped up since the lockout so there is a greater emphasis on stick work and positional play over running guys into the boards.

 

His heath issues were unlucky, but I don't think his game translates well in today's NHL.  I guess you are right that it's premature to call him a bust until we at least see a full year out of him. I was once very high on Seiloff, but I think he may be the odd man out on the depth chart in the same vein as Reinhart.

[kehatch]

I have updated my list:

 

1. Bennett (1)

2. Hickey (7)

3. Poirier (2)

4. Ferland (4)

5. Gilles (3)  

6. Arnold (14)

7. Klimchuk (9)

8. Ortio (5)

9. Granlund (8)

10. Jankowski (6)

11. Smith (17)

12. Morrison (15)

13. Andersson (13)

14. Kylington (10)

15. MacDonald (12)

16. Agostino (18)

17. Hathaway (23)

18. Wotherspoon (11)

19. Culkin (16)

20. Karnaukhov (28)

21. Rafikov (20)

22. Mangiapane (21)

23. Carroll (22)

24. Ollas-Mattsson (26)

25. Gilmour (27)

26. Kulak (19)

27. Elson (29)

28. Sieloff (24)

29. Kanzig (25)

30. Bruce (32)

31. Van Brabant (30)

32. Harrison (31)

33. DeBlouw (33)

 

The number in brackets is the results of a recent fan vote on another site.

[AlbertaBoy12]

I have updated my list:

 

1. Bennett (1)

2. Hickey (7)

3. Poirier (2)

4. Ferland (4)

5. Gilles (3)  

6. Arnold (14)

7. Klimchuk (9)

8. Ortio (5)

9. Granlund (8)

10. Jankowski (6)

11. Smith (17)

12. Morrison (15)

13. Andersson (13)

14. Kylington (10)

15. MacDonald (12)

16. Agostino (18)

17. Hathaway (23)

18. Wotherspoon (11)

19. Culkin (16)

20. Karnaukhov (28)

21. Rafikov (20)

22. Mangiapane (21)

23. Carroll (22)

24. Ollas-Mattsson (26)

25. Gilmour (27)

26. Kulak (19)

27. Elson (29)

28. Sieloff (24)

29. Kanzig (25)

30. Bruce (32)

31. Van Brabant (30)

32. Harrison (31)

33. DeBlouw (33)

 

The number in brackets is the results of a recent fan vote on another site.

Im suprised fans voted jankowski higher then granlund/klimchuk, same with ortio being lower then gillies. But I will say im excited to have so many good goaltending prospects in the system going into the future.

[cccsberg]

We sometimes are quick to want to cut bait on a player, but with a d-man you don't always see the results until a bit later, like when they are closer to mid-twenties.  You want to see progression, but really you want to see the glaring weaknesses dealt with.  Skating and scoring are Seiloff's problem right now.  Less concerned with the scoring, as we have 17 other guys in the lineup to put the puck in the net.  A good shutdown d-man that is sound positionally, clears the crease, and has a goog first pass is worth his weight in gold.

 

Seiloff's career was mismanaged from day one.  He will take some doing to get back into the mix, but I give him some time to get there.  He will likely toil away in the AHL until his next contract, then sign a reasonable extension.  If he doesn't fit, he gets dealt like Reinhart.

Not sure how you figure he was mismanaged. He had a life-threatening illness and lost a full year.

[OilersAreHighlyFlammable]

Im suprised fans voted jankowski higher then granlund/klimchuk, same with ortio being lower then gillies. But I will say im excited to have so many good goaltending prospects in the system going into the future.

To be fair, a lot of people rank prospects based on ceiling potential. Ferland is a better prospect for the Flames right now but people like Kylington, Jankowski, and Klimchuk project to be better players (If their potential is reached) thus the higher ranking by some. 

This is also where predictions and rankings get a little muddy, because points and goals aren't everything, and a player that could, one day, put up a bunch of points might not be as effective to your team as someone who is defensively sound and hits anything that moves, based on a number of things.

[AlbertaBoy12]

To be fair, a lot of people rank prospects based on ceiling potential. Ferland is a better prospect for the Flames right now but people like Kylington, Jankowski, and Klimchuk project to be better players (If their potential is reached) thus the higher ranking by some. 

This is also where predictions and rankings get a little muddy, because points and goals aren't everything, and a player that could, one day, put up a bunch of points might not be as effective to your team as someone who is defensively sound and hits anything that moves, based on a number of things.

I agree with you, but I wouldnt project jankowski higher then granlund/klimchuk based on his college play, But thats just my opinion.

[OilersAreHighlyFlammable]

I agree with you, but I wouldnt project jankowski higher then granlund/klimchuk based on his college play, But thats just my opinion.

I personally think Jankowski will surprise many in his final college year. He looked great in dev. camp. He's got it all, size, skill, two-way play. All that remains is a breakout year offensively and people may start considering him a legitimate top-prospect. We shall see. 

Granlund to me is no longer a prospect. I think he belongs on the big club, it's just a matter of finding out where he fits. Is a shift to wing feasible?

[420since1974]

I don't feel that there is room on the NHL roster for Granlund at the start of the upcoming season.

 

As well, he is still waiver exempt, so he's the obvious choice to go down to Stockton.

 

2016/2017 will be another matter altogether.

[travel_dude]

I don't feel that there is room on the NHL roster for Granlund at the start of the upcoming season.

 

As well, he is still waiver exempt, so he's the obvious choice to go down to Stockton.

 

2016/2017 will be another matter altogether.

 

He falls into the "too good for 4th line, no space for him in top 9 category (see Raymond, Mason).  He is more versatile, as he can play center, but feel he could excel more on wing.  If we weren't so hung up on Bouma/Backlund/Jones, he might be a good fit there on LW.

He is a defensively responsible, solid player; his faceoff results not withstanding.

 

He could be a fit with Bennett and Frolik, as they are pretty good snipers.  But, we have too many LW's now facing waivers, so like it or not, he gets the demotion.  Hartley like his play, so it will come down to a tough conversation between BT and BH. 

[robrob1974]

On a good team, granlund wouldnt make it yet.

[420since1974]

Raymond is definitely making things difficult for the Flames.

 

Unfavorable contract both in $ and term, under-performing, blocking a spot for prospects, the list goes on.

[travel_dude]

On a good team, granlund wouldnt make it yet.

 As a center, you are correct in that Granlund isn't there yet.  He has played wing and has excelled at it, so there is a strong chance he is NHL quality now.  I have only heard Hartley say positive things about him, even when he was struggling with faceoffs.

 

Raymond is definitely making things difficult for the Flames.

 

Unfavorable contract both in $ and term, under-performing, blocking a spot for prospects, the list goes on.

 

I always sound like I am harping on Raymond, but the Flames moved on after his injury last season.  Lots of options that are cheaper and at least as productive in scoring as Raymond, let alone the type of game he plays.

[cross16]

I dont' think Granland has earned a place on this team yet. he played well early, but honestly save for his first 10 games or so i don't think he was very good. Now that's not an insult because I think it takes time to develop so i'm not saying that as a negative i just dont' agree he is there or that he deserves a spot on the team like some do. he needs to get stronger and produce becuase while yes he is strong defensivly and trustworthy I don't believe thats enough for him. he isn't strong on faceoffs so you can't use him as a defensive center, he isn't very strong or physical (gets pushed around imo) so a 4th line is not ideal for him, and his offensive production really dried up after his good start.

 

Not writing him off, he just needs a good summer and come in a try to define what he is going to be. Until he does that I don't think he is on the NHL roster right now.

[travel_dude]

I dont' think Granland has earned a place on this team yet. he played well early, but honestly save for his first 10 games or so i don't think he was very good. Now that's not an insult because I think it takes time to develop so i'm not saying that as a negative i just dont' agree he is there or that he deserves a spot on the team like some do. he needs to get stronger and produce becuase while yes he is strong defensivly and trustworthy I don't believe thats enough for him. he isn't strong on faceoffs so you can't use him as a defensive center, he isn't very strong or physical (gets pushed around imo) so a 4th line is not ideal for him, and his offensive production really dried up after his good start.

 

Not writing him off, he just needs a good summer and come in a try to define what he is going to be. Until he does that I don't think he is on the NHL roster right now.

 

I dont' think Granland has earned a place on this team yet. he played well early, but honestly save for his first 10 games or so i don't think he was very good. Now that's not an insult because I think it takes time to develop so i'm not saying that as a negative i just dont' agree he is there or that he deserves a spot on the team like some do. he needs to get stronger and produce becuase while yes he is strong defensivly and trustworthy I don't believe thats enough for him. he isn't strong on faceoffs so you can't use him as a defensive center, he isn't very strong or physical (gets pushed around imo) so a 4th line is not ideal for him, and his offensive production really dried up after his good start.

 

Not writing him off, he just needs a good summer and come in a try to define what he is going to be. Until he does that I don't think he is on the NHL roster right now.

 

If you are referring to me, I don't think he will be gifted anything on this team.  He has to be as good or better than a waiver eligible forward to be kept on the roster in October.  I think they had aims on turning him into a Backlund with "Finnish".  He isn't there yet, or will be for several years at the least.

 

We haven't seen him play on LW here.  He did that in the AHL and had success.  I see him being a speedy winger with defensive instincts.  Despite him only playing 48 games, he was able to put up ok points. 

[zima]

If worst comes to worst we can buy out Raymond I can't see any one taking him unless we take something back just a bad or cash. Sieloff is going to surprise a lot of Arm chair managers and scouts here putting him way down in 24 I think is wrong but unlike you guys obviously I have not had the pleasure of watching almost every AHL game in my opinion to have such insight on all these players you must have watch more than 30 games to even come close to these opinions  . He will become a NHLer hopefully here maybe else where depending on what real management and Coaching staff think.

[kehatch]

I liked Granlund early.  But he really started to take steps back as the season progressed.  That isn't to say he isn't going to make it.  I just didn't see the progression I was hoping, especially given the opportunity he was given.  It is going to be tough to crack the Flames roster this season. If he doesn't he is at risk of being passed by the guys coming up behind him.  I don't want to put a do or die on a 22 year old prospect.  But like the other Flames draftees in the top 60 last season (Baertschi, Wotherspoon) this is a huge season for him.