Flames & Losing For Higher Draft Order.

[Bastardsonofmacinnis]

I have to admit, I used to blind of be in " hope we draft in the top 3 " camp. I changed my mind when I watched this team play as giant killers. We've beat some top teams with strong ethic, coaching, and group cohesiveness. Those things are so elusive sometimes. What put me over the edge was a short trip to the oilers boards. It's pretty rough over there. It's pretty clear drafting 1st overall loses it's charm after the 3rd or so losing season. There's a ton of good fans up north that don't deserve what's going on, and I've never had love for the oilers. I know we're still a ways off. But at least when this team loses, it's after a hard fought game we can be proud of. Flames fans haven't been able to say that in a long time. I say keep winning when we can. The rest will work itself out.

[tmac70]

As cliche as it may seem where we finish in the standings is where we deserve to finish dictated by our play.

[The_People1]

With Burke at the helm on draft day..anything is possible. .dont ask me why but my gut says we pick top 3..just a hunch but something tells me something big goes down that day for us.

 

I hope you are right. 

[FlamesLogic]

As cliche as it may seem where we finish in the standings is where we deserve to finish dictated by our play.

I think the extensive injuries to glenx, gio, hudler, wideman and ramo have had a hand in more than a handful of losses.

[SheriforPM]

As point there isn't much reason for this debate. The difference between top 3 and every where else is huge (in terms of chance of drafting a star). The difference between 5 and 8 isn't that big.

I honestly don't know how a Flames fan could be disappointed with the wins right now. The effort and character is a great sign, the performances by many of the young guys is awesome, and the Flames are super exciting.

A year ago people were making fun of me for being a die hard Flames fan and we were booing our team off the ice many nights. This season I am proud to say that is my team. I am enjoying the games and will worry about the draft when the season is over.

This.. thank you for pointing this out. 

[The_People1]

Short term pain for long term gains.

[SheriforPM]

About a month ago, I was okay with losses but hoping for wins. I thought that drafting was important enough to us that a 2 loss to 1 win ratio would be acceptable.

 

I was wrong. Seeing this team win and against some tough opponents has made me realize that winning is really it's own reward. The smiles, and joking around. 

Stajan pointing skyward after his goal and the hug that Grats gave him. To me, that is worth a first round pick. 

 

Keep winning! If they won every single game for the rest of the season I would be the happiest girl on these boards!

 

Go Flames Go!

[andymo]

Short term pain for long term gains.

I think these performances and wins are gold long-term. We are showing we have decent foundations and some pretty good building blocks for a rebuild which is better than accepting inferiority and picking up Sam Reinhart as consolation. I am hoping for long term gains and that this spirit and performance is here to stay.

[Flyerfan52]

Short term pain for long term gains.

True enough.

 

It seems the Flames are willing to accept the short term pain of forgoing a higher draft pick that some see as the route to a quicker turn-around for the long term gains of building character, maintaining an atmosphere of believing they can/will win & playing to that end for themselves, their teammates & the fans.

 

See Peeps, we do agree @ times.

[Kulstad]

Can't remember who mentioned it last night (Francis?), but Calgary is Canada's "drama-free hockey team" and the feel-good team this year.  With the turmoil, drama, and tension on the other Canadian teams, it's amazing to have such an air of positivity with our guys.  Like it was said, the guys really put in a great effort, game in and game out, right from the first drop of the puck, and the fans who come to the Dome (and those of us who watch from other locales) are excited to see what our team is going to do next.

[SheriforPM]

Can't remember who mentioned it last night (Francis?), but Calgary is Canada's "drama-free hockey team" and the feel-good team this year.  With the turmoil, drama, and tension on the other Canadian teams, it's amazing to have such an air of positivity with our guys.  Like it was said, the guys really put in a great effort, game in and game out, right from the first drop of the puck, and the fans who come to the Dome (and those of us who watch from other locales) are excited to see what our team is going to do next.

Exactly! I have never been to the dome. Watched a ton of games on TV and to me, the atmosphere seems so much better there now. I mean you can actually hear people cheering all the time, not just when we score or a fight breaks out. I want to see that live!

[kenny76]

I couldn't begin imagining supporting a team that would choose to tank! I actually find it hard to believe that it would even be a consideration by fans.

 

I could care a less where we draft, I'm exited for this Flames team, I haven't been proud of a Flames team in a long time, Every game is full effort, even if they lose the game is close, You can actually see the pride on their faces, It's been a long time since this team has had an identity & the whole league knows they had better play 60 mins or they will be losing. I love it!!

[andymo]

For the last few years these boards have lamented our lack of consistency and inability to compete for 3 periods. This is something that has improved so much this year. This is something to cling on to and cherish, a huge asset going forward, not something to bemoan as a burden preventing future riches. We really have found something which has proved so elusive and despite not having picked top 5 for so many years, our youngsters are showing signs of positive contributions in the years to come and we still have some shiny new prospects with huge potential yet to be unleashed in pro hockey. We are in a healthy position capwise and have no real deadweight contracts. I think our rebuild is in pretty good shape.

[The_People1]

The 3rd overall pick is still within our reach if we change course right now.

[Ameter]

Look how well losing for high draft picks has served edmonton.

 

you cant draft character and work ethic

[The_People1]

Look how well losing for high draft picks has served edmonton.

 

you cant draft character and work ethic

 

Look how well it has worked for Colorado.

 

The right coach changes everything.

[Ameter]

Look how well it has worked for Colorado.

 

The right coach changes everything.

 

The right work ethic changes everything. The Pens won the cup once with Crosby and have had issues ever since - they lack a good team character.

 

We could draft the best player in the world and still fail to win. Work ethic is the most important character trait in the game. It makes lesser men able to topple titans. See the '04 Flames for example.

 

You can't draft this. You instill it in your players, and they learn it by practice. You can also instill the opposite - see Edmonton. Edmonton is so practiced at not trying that hard and losing that they can't stop doing it now. It will take them several years yet to turn that train around.

 

I'd rather get lower drafts and a gain team that's learned how to do what it takes to win.

[DirtyDeeds]

I think these performances and wins are gold long-term. We are showing we have decent foundations and some pretty good building blocks for a rebuild which is better than accepting inferiority and picking up Sam Reinhart as consolation. I am hoping for long term gains and that this spirit and performance is here to stay.

I  never really saw the point of any consolation prize for anything.  Yet some feel it is the second coming...

[robrob1974]

The right work ethic changes everything. The Pens won the cup once with Crosby and have had issues ever since - they lack a good team character.

 

We could draft the best player in the world and still fail to win. Work ethic is the most important character trait in the game. It makes lesser men able to topple titans. See the '04 Flames for example.

 

You can't draft this. You instill it in your players, and they learn it by practice. You can also instill the opposite - see Edmonton. Edmonton is so practiced at not trying that hard and losing that they can't stop doing it now. It will take them several years yet to turn that train around.

 

I'd rather get lower drafts and a gain team that's learned how to do what it takes to win.

 

The only way Edmonton changes is when the kids "grow-up" and stop being babies and realize the professionalism that comes with being  in the NHL. It's like Duchene. Although I don't know if he was a baby or was a problem. But after this last year, he realized what he needed to do to be that player in the NHL, capable of being a stud. I think if the Oilers realize this, then things can change, but let's see what happens. 

 

It doesn't help that they trade away guys like Smid because he might have called them out on their efforts. I don't get that, if you want to win, someone has to step up and put people in their place. 

 

For us, we have to keep getting our draft picks right. I hope the last few years have become the norm and not what our long term history has been over the last 15 years or so. Iginla was drafted at 10… So anything can happen. Of course there are other examples… 

[The_People1]

What a clutch loss last night against the Ducks.  That and an Islanders win gives us a glimmer of hope for the 4th overall pick.  I'm still worried about Ottawa and Winnipeg who are tanking it down the stretch and might pass us.

 

The countdown is on.

[iamcdn34]

  Any player, team or coaching staffs that excercises the terms "Intentionally tanking' should get the Pete Rose punishment for doing so period! NHL player's, coaches and teams are role models for a lot of children around the world. In a predominantly self centered, only do what it takes if I get something out of it kind of world..........does hockey want that kind of reputation a year after a lockout?? Hockey, teams, players and coaches are proffessionals and must act accordingly! Reputations take years to build and only seconds to destroy

 

  Getting high first round draft picks every year, can almost be detremental to a teams developement. Getting highly skilled junior players who have had impressive careers thus far, putting up the points and such is one thing, but getting a bunch of them on one team may be a bad thing. For one thing they may think they have it made and dont work as hard and a second would be they get in the show and dont perform the way they used to, used improperly or cut can destroy a young mans confidence and carreer. Case in point Edmonton.

 

    When I read this headline I immediatley thought of the Sochi Russian hockey team, A bunch of highly skilled player's with huge expectations resulting in everyone wanting to be the hero! It is a team game and any one player is only as goos as the team around them.

 

   I for one would prerfer to draft players with really good character, good skills and a greater potential for improvement. Top of the class in one league does not translate to top of the class in another league, hence a player with really strong character, may be more apt to succeed. In my opinion, evry player in every draft is a crap shoot, You see first rounders tank and late rounders flourish.

 

   A successful team is not built solely on first rounders. Me personally, I don't like the top six, top nine lingo, I think it is rediculous and should based on play game in and game out regardless of who it is! The comparisons made from one player to the next, is unfair to say the least. I am sorry FF but to say Back's at #1 C is a joke, is a joke. He works his tail off and he has progressed. I see player's like Backs and Colbourne starting to come around into form and they both work extremely hard all over the ice, where as I see Monahan, not work as hard all the time in all areas of the ice. With everyones 1 thru 4 rankings was Semenko a first line winger with The Great One and the Oiler's in the day??

 

   Enough rambling on my part.

 

Go Flames Go!

[The_People1]

  Any player, team or coaching staffs that excercises the terms "Intentionally tanking' should get the Pete Rose punishment for doing so period! NHL player's, coaches and teams are role models for a lot of children around the world. In a predominantly self centered, only do what it takes if I get something out of it kind of world..........does hockey want that kind of reputation a year after a lockout?? Hockey, teams, players and coaches are proffessionals and must act accordingly! Reputations take years to build and only seconds to destroy

 

  Getting high first round draft picks every year, can almost be detremental to a teams developement. Getting highly skilled junior players who have had impressive careers thus far, putting up the points and such is one thing, but getting a bunch of them on one team may be a bad thing. For one thing they may think they have it made and dont work as hard and a second would be they get in the show and dont perform the way they used to, used improperly or cut can destroy a young mans confidence and carreer. Case in point Edmonton.

 

    When I read this headline I immediatley thought of the Sochi Russian hockey team, A bunch of highly skilled player's with huge expectations resulting in everyone wanting to be the hero! It is a team game and any one player is only as goos as the team around them.

 

   I for one would prerfer to draft players with really good character, good skills and a greater potential for improvement. Top of the class in one league does not translate to top of the class in another league, hence a player with really strong character, may be more apt to succeed. In my opinion, evry player in every draft is a crap shoot, You see first rounders tank and late rounders flourish.

 

   A successful team is not built solely on first rounders. Me personally, I don't like the top six, top nine lingo, I think it is rediculous and should based on play game in and game out regardless of who it is! The comparisons made from one player to the next, is unfair to say the least. I am sorry FF but to say Back's at #1 C is a joke, is a joke. He works his tail off and he has progressed. I see player's like Backs and Colbourne starting to come around into form and they both work extremely hard all over the ice, where as I see Monahan, not work as hard all the time in all areas of the ice. With everyones 1 thru 4 rankings was Semenko a first line winger with The Great One and the Oiler's in the day??

 

   Enough rambling on my part.

 

Go Flames Go!

 

[Flyerfan52]

  Any player, team or coaching staffs that excercises the terms "Intentionally tanking' should get the Pete Rose punishment for doing so period! NHL player's, coaches and teams are role models for a lot of children around the world. In a predominantly self centered, only do what it takes if I get something out of it kind of world..........does hockey want that kind of reputation a year after a lockout?? Hockey, teams, players and coaches are proffessionals and must act accordingly! Reputations take years to build and only seconds to destroy

 

  Getting high first round draft picks every year, can almost be detremental to a teams developement. Getting highly skilled junior players who have had impressive careers thus far, putting up the points and such is one thing, but getting a bunch of them on one team may be a bad thing. For one thing they may think they have it made and dont work as hard and a second would be they get in the show and dont perform the way they used to, used improperly or cut can destroy a young mans confidence and carreer. Case in point Edmonton.

 

    When I read this headline I immediatley thought of the Sochi Russian hockey team, A bunch of highly skilled player's with huge expectations resulting in everyone wanting to be the hero! It is a team game and any one player is only as goos as the team around them.

 

   I for one would prerfer to draft players with really good character, good skills and a greater potential for improvement. Top of the class in one league does not translate to top of the class in another league, hence a player with really strong character, may be more apt to succeed. In my opinion, evry player in every draft is a crap shoot, You see first rounders tank and late rounders flourish.

 

   A successful team is not built solely on first rounders. Me personally, I don't like the top six, top nine lingo, I think it is rediculous and should based on play game in and game out regardless of who it is! The comparisons made from one player to the next, is unfair to say the least. I am sorry FF but to say Back's at #1 C is a joke, is a joke. He works his tail off and he has progressed. I see player's like Backs and Colbourne starting to come around into form and they both work extremely hard all over the ice, where as I see Monahan, not work as hard all the time in all areas of the ice. With everyones 1 thru 4 rankings was Semenko a first line winger with The Great One and the Oiler's in the day??

 

   Enough rambling on my part.

 

Go Flames Go!

I don't recall saying Backlund was a joke but he's certainly not a 1C. I said Stajan is that until we acquire 1 & Backlund can be #2 until Monahan moves up to take that spot. Backlund is adequate as a 2/3 until we get a better 1. I use it as who I think is most deserving of the ranking.

Actually I don't care what line a player is on as that should be dermined by who they work best with.

Hartnell is far from a 1st liner but serves a purpose playing with Giroux better then others tried @ the LW in Philly.

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Much of the rest I agree with. A team of only kids that excelled in junior have the resulting ego unless they have the character to realize they are no longer the go-to guy until they prove capable of being that.

With TC usually being composed of stars they had to check egos @ the door because a look around the room saw players as good or better. Again, character that allows them to place team above self.

We are always told teams took the BPA. That depends on your definition of BPA. A cherry picker might have better #s then a player that plays 2 ways but many judge by gaudy #s while ignoring the equally important goals prevented by blocking shots or simply being hard to take the puck away from.

IMO every goal opportunity denied = an assist but that doesn't show on the stat sheet. A big reason I consider the Norris Trophy a joke.

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BTW, if we don't compare players like Backlund to their peers who should we compare them too? Backlund does work his butt off (give him a ribbon if you want) but in the bigs it's a combination of talent & hard work with neither compensating for the other. Backlund has some talent but it pales compared to some others that work just as hard.

 

[Wreckening]

Tanking for draft position is a double edged sword.  Ya you may get the BPA but they don't always pan out, one only has to look to Edmonton to see this.  But tanking can hurt you in other ways as well.  It makes your team less likely to land FA's because who wants to come to a team that's always losing?  The way Hartley and the team are approaching the last 10-20 games this year (treating them as best of seven series') is the way to go.  Keep the intensity up and try to win.  This is how I want to see a team rebuilding play.  It keeps the energy and compete levels up and it creates a true sense of team and a culture of wanting to win.  Let's face it, when you see fans throwing their jersey's on the ice because they are disgusted with the way their team is playing there's something broken badly in that franchise.  This is something I want to see the Flames steer clear of.

[Flyerfan52]

Tanking for draft position is a double edged sword.  Ya you may get the BPA but they don't always pan out, one only has to look to Edmonton to see this.  But tanking can hurt you in other ways as well.  It makes your team less likely to land FA's because who wants to come to a team that's always losing?  The way Hartley and the team are approaching the last 10-20 games this year (treating them as best of seven series') is the way to go.  Keep the intensity up and try to win.  This is how I want to see a team rebuilding play.  It keeps the energy and compete levels up and it creates a true sense of team and a culture of wanting to win.  Let's face it, when you see fans throwing their jersey's on the ice because they are disgusted with the way their team is playing there's something broken badly in that franchise.  This is something I want to see the Flames steer clear of.

Very true.

An in demand UFA that sees a team low in the standings but busting their humps might see himself as the difference maker that can add to that effort & make them better & secure a SC during his playing career while being on a complacent team that throws in the towel early in hope of a higher pick would leave him a lonely voice in the wilderness yelling that they can win.

If you go into a game not caring you've lost if the other team has an iota of compete. If fans & management droll over high picks it becomes easy to justify losses as "taking 1 for the team" because surely all those high picks will become great someday.

 

I'm sure those advocating lossing have good intentions but there is a saying about the road to a certain undesirable location being paved with good intentions.