Goaltending

[travel_dude]

Agreed he's not my first choice either.if we can keep Colborne under 2M I agree we sign Joe.im just not convinced he takes that much of a discount. If he goes to arbitration, we run the risk of being either stuck with a bad contract or walking away for nothing.

What do you think it would take to get Neuvirth out of Philly? I think he'd be a great target.

 

I think he will get offered something around $2.5m on a one year deal.  He has to prove his consistency with the team and not simply an end-of-year player.  Don't get me wrong, I like the player (most of the time).  He has games where you see his possible potential, then he has shifts where you think he has no hockey sense.  

 

I'm convinced that BT will do a short-term deal, to keep the cap manageable and still allow him to get a better deal in the following year.  He would likely get more in arbitration (assuming he has rights), but the Flames would only accept a one-year deal that way anyway.  They might even walk away, but would be more likely to trade him before year end.

 

I don't think Philly wants to trade Neuvirth.  He won 2/3 in the playoffs, plus played 32 games this year.  

[phoenix66]

I think he will get offered something around $2.5m on a one year deal.  He has to prove his consistency with the team and not simply an end-of-year player.  Don't get me wrong, I like the player (most of the time).  He has games where you see his possible potential, then he has shifts where you think he has no hockey sense.  

 

I'm convinced that BT will do a short-term deal, to keep the cap manageable and still allow him to get a better deal in the following year.  He would likely get more in arbitration (assuming he has rights), but the Flames would only accept a one-year deal that way anyway.  They might even walk away, but would be more likely to trade him before year end.

 

I don't think Philly wants to trade Neuvirth.  He won 2/3 in the playoffs, plus played 32 games this year.

And thats mainly my point, at 2.5 even, we need to walk away, hes priced himself off the team at anything over 2.we are hitting the point in our rebuild where if youre not a quality 4+ player (or a bargain 3 like Backlund) youre a less than 2 player. We should be unloading Bouma at first opportunity as well.

True I think his playoffs cemented him a bit. It depends on their opinion of Mason. Although I dont want him, he was pretty solid for them too.

[travel_dude]

And thats mainly my point, at 2.5 even, we need to walk away, hes priced himself off the team at anything over 2.we are hitting the point in our rebuild where if youre not a quality 4+ player (or a bargain 3 like Backlund) youre a less than 2 player. We should be unloading Bouma at first opportunity as well.

True I think his playoffs cemented him a bit. It depends on their opinion of Mason. Although I dont want him, he was pretty solid for them too.

 

I think you undervalue what a player that scores 44 points is worth.  Especially a center/winger.  If it came down to Joe or Bouma, I choose Joe.  Kreider and Hayes both had similar years, and earned/will earn more than $2.5m.  

 

I'm ok with Joe at $2.5m.  He's a top 9 player.  Not a Backlund.  More upside than Stajan or Bouma.  

 

If Anaheim wanted Joe, then I would trade him for a goalie.  Same with STL.  

[phoenix66]

I think you undervalue what a player that scores 44 points is worth.  Especially a center/winger.  If it came down to Joe or Bouma, I choose Joe.  Kreider and Hayes both had similar years, and earned/will earn more than $2.5m.  

 

I'm ok with Joe at $2.5m.  He's a top 9 player.  Not a Backlund.  More upside than Stajan or Bouma.  

 

If Anaheim wanted Joe, then I would trade him for a goalie.  Same with STL.

But im also in agreement with Burke, he scores when its meaningless.Bouma at least scores dirty goals and many came when we needed them. Where was his scorung in the 1 goal games? I think hes a prime canfidate for a bad contract.

I think jankowski is a perfect candidate to take his spot sooner than later actually

[travel_dude]

But im also in agreement with Burke, he scores when its meaningless.Bouma at least scores dirty goals and many came when we needed them. Where was his scorung in the 1 goal games? I think hes a prime canfidate for a bad contract.

I think jankowski is a perfect candidate to take his spot sooner than later actually

 

Well Janko is a center, so I don't believe that's his competition.  But anyway...

 

I agree that the timing of the points streak (something like 26 points in his final 26 games) is suspect.  The thing he managed to do was be in the right place for tips and rebounds.  He wasn't driving the play, but he was finishing.  Not to crap on Bouma, but in his career year, his shooting % was sky high compared to his normal output.

 

Two different players, but the versatility of Joe outweighs the niche player like Bouma.  Bouma brings heart and soul, blocking and hitting, but Joe gives you options.  Possibly even a new gear.  Bottom line is that it comes down to cap available.  I can see them fitting Joe in, but other things have to be done.  Can never have too many players able to score 40 points.

[kehatch]

Colborne has Arbitration rights. The Flames may not have the option to walk away.

[cross16]

Colborne has Arbitration rights. The Flames may not have the option to walk away.

Can always walk away from the arbitration ruling if he files. Would lose him for nothing, which isn't Ideale or course.

I'm assuming they'd only want to walk away if he got the minimum award anyway. I still personally think they should be shopping him. I don't think he fits where the team is going. Even if the return is minimal I think the cap space and roster space is more valuable to them right now

[Flyerfan52]

At the same time, I think we've seen the last of Joe Colborne unless a miracle happens and he signs for $1.75 or less.so I think his rights get traded at the draft.

What I think would be a good opportunity, is offer up Colbornes rights and a sweetener like a 2Nd rounder to Philly for Neuvirth. He has 1 year left at 1.6 and you'd still have money left to sign an Enroth as insurance.

Dunno would Philly part with him? Joe would look pretty good in Philly I believe

Neuvirth was a heck of a good backup last year @ 1.6. How do the Flyers replace that @ =/lower cost?

Colborne's rights & that 2nd (if it was Calgary's own) would probably do the trick. In fact you could leave Colborne out of it & use the rights in a separate trade.

 

He's a dang good backup but if you're looking @ him as a starter you're looking @ the wrong guy.

[travel_dude]

Can always walk away from the arbitration ruling if he files. Would lose him for nothing, which isn't Ideale or course.

I'm assuming they'd only want to walk away if he got the minimum award anyway. I still personally think they should be shopping him. I don't think he fits where the team is going. Even if the return is minimal I think the cap space and roster space is more valuable to them right now

 

Between him and Bouma, who would you shop first?  Bouma fit on a Hartley team where sacrificing your body every shift was expected.  In an aggressive PK, does Bouma fit the mold?

 

I get the desire to move on.  His hockey sense is less than perfect.  He cycles the puck, but then doesn't do anything with it.  He takes dumb penalties.

 

On the plus side, he is one of the few players to go to the net and screen the goalie.  He could do with a Pavelski type practice of deflecting pucks, though.  The only other forward that could be used in that role is Ferland. 

 

I agree with the Burke statement that he doesn't get $3.4m for scoring in the last 26 games of the year.  You get that for being consistent and by bringing other tools with you.

[cross16]

Between him and Bouma, who would you shop first?  Bouma fit on a Hartley team where sacrificing your body every shift was expected.  In an aggressive PK, does Bouma fit the mold?

 

I get the desire to move on.  His hockey sense is less than perfect.  He cycles the puck, but then doesn't do anything with it.  He takes dumb penalties.

 

On the plus side, he is one of the few players to go to the net and screen the goalie.  He could do with a Pavelski type practice of deflecting pucks, though.  The only other forward that could be used in that role is Ferland. 

 

I agree with the Burke statement that he doesn't get $3.4m for scoring in the last 26 games of the year.  You get that for being consistent and by bringing other tools with you.

 

 

I don't think a new coach is going to be any different. You need to block shots in today's NHL and you need players that will do so. Yes the Flames want to block less shots and have the puck more, but that doesn't make the abilty to block shots any less valuable. Its very valuable, no matter what system you run and if you don't believe me watch the playoffs. Both San Jose and Pittsburgh are excellent shot blocking teams.  Bouma fits any PK and any defensive system you want to run he isn't only a shot blocker. 

 

The reason I'm not all that keen on Colborne is I think he will sign a contract that will outweight his contributions. I dont' think he is signing for less than 3 million unless its a 1 year deal. Long term I think you are in the 3-3.5 or more range and I question that amount of money for someone who really only does 1 thing very well and that deflect shots/play the slot. He is only OK defensivley, he isn't overly fast, his physicality is inconsistant and he doesn't drive play. I'm trying to think 2-3 season away when I think the Flames should be a very good hockey club and at that point I don't see the value in having Colborne at 3.5 or more so i am shopping him. 

[MAC331]

I don't think a new coach is going to be any different. You need to block shots in today's NHL and you need players that will do so. Yes the Flames want to block less shots and have the puck more, but that doesn't make the abilty to block shots any less valuable. Its very valuable, no matter what system you run and if you don't believe me watch the playoffs. Both San Jose and Pittsburgh are excellent shot blocking teams.  Bouma fits any PK and any defensive system you want to run he isn't only a shot blocker. 

 

The reason I'm not all that keen on Colborne is I think he will sign a contract that will outweight his contributions. I dont' think he is signing for less than 3 million unless its a 1 year deal. Long term I think you are in the 3-3.5 or more range and I question that amount of money for someone who really only does 1 thing very well and that deflect shots/play the slot. He is only OK defensivley, he isn't overly fast, his physicality is inconsistant and he doesn't drive play. I'm trying to think 2-3 season away when I think the Flames should be a very good hockey club and at that point I don't see the value in having Colborne at 3.5 or more so i am shopping him. 

I think Colborne continues to get better as he gains experience. I agree it will become a matter of the money at this point in time. He is a 3rd line player that can help elsewhere as needed, if I were BT I would be trying to keep him around the 2M mark.

[jjgallow]

If I understand everyone correctly, that Colborne is serviceable in numerous positions including goaltending, then we should totally get this guy re-signed imho.

[travel_dude]

If I understand everyone correctly, that Colborne is serviceable in numerous positions including goaltending, then we should totally get this guy re-signed imho.

 

The biggest sticking point seems to be the dollar value.

 

He's big, covers the net well, is a good coach, manages equipment like there's no tomorrow, makes a mean omelet.  He sounds like he is ready to sign a Flames offer.  Doesn't think it will take long.

[cccsberg]

The biggest sticking point seems to be the dollar value.

 

He's big, covers the net well, is a good coach, manages equipment like there's no tomorrow, makes a mean omelet.  He sounds like he is ready to sign a Flames offer.  Doesn't think it will take long.

The troops are really getting stir crazy for some solid Flames news.....

[StarkRaving]

The troops are really getting stir crazy for some solid Flames news.....

Indeed.  If there's not some action soon, I'm going to start making stuff up.

[phoenix66]

Can always walk away from the arbitration ruling if he files. Would lose him for nothing, which isn't Ideale or course.

I'm assuming they'd only want to walk away if he got the minimum award anyway. I still personally think they should be shopping him. I don't think he fits where the team is going. Even if the return is minimal I think the cap space and roster space is more valuable to them right now

I forget, isnt there some rule sbout the award amount determining if they can walk away or not? Thought I read somewhere at a certain level they could be stuck?

Neuvirth was a heck of a good backup last year @ 1.6. How do the Flyers replace that @ =/lower cost?

Colborne's rights & that 2nd (if it was Calgary's own) would probably do the trick. In fact you could leave Colborne out of it & use the rights in a separate trade.

 

He's a dang good backup but if you're looking @ him as a starter you're looking @ the wrong guy.

Good insight, why would you not start him? I agree they may not part with him for the reasons you mentioned..thinking mainly of the cap issues they face as well as possible expansion as leverage. Ideally I was thinkung to target Enroth as well for a great platoon..but curious why you dont see him as a starter?

[cross16]

I forget, isnt there some rule sbout the award amount determining if they can walk away or not? Thought I read somewhere at a certain level they could be stuck?

Good insight, why would you not start him? I agree they may not part with him for the reasons you mentioned..thinking mainly of the cap issues they face as well as possible expansion as leverage. Ideally I was thinkung to target Enroth as well for a great platoon..but curious why you dont see him as a starter?

 

Has to be 3.5 million or more. 

[phoenix66]

The troops are really getting stir crazy for some solid Flames news.....

No kidding..im hoping for the pens to get it over with next game so we can just get on with it..lol

Has to be 3.5 million or more.

Ouch. ! I dont think he'll get that so I really think he needs to go. I do think he could be good goalie bait

[cross16]

Ouch. ! I dont think he'll get that so I really think he needs to go. I do think he could be good goalie bait

 

If it gets to Arbitration I thik he will get that or more. 

 

Cizkas is 3.5 and Colborne has better number.

Cody Eakin is 3.8 with similar numbers

Abkelkader is 4 million and numbers are not that much better than Colborne. 

Silvferbeg is 3.75 with simlar numbers to Colborne.

Reily smith was 3.4 2 offseasons ago with numbers pretty simlar to Colborne as well. 

 

I can't really find a comparable signed in the last 2 years that compares favorable to colborne and is less than 3 mill. If he goes to arbitration I think he is getting at least 3.25 or higher. an ARb case does not favor the Flames IMO. 

[MAC331]

If it gets to Arbitration I thik he will get that or more. 

 

Cizkas is 3.5 and Colborne has better number.

Cody Eakin is 3.8 with similar numbers

Abkelkader is 4 million and numbers are not that much better than Colborne. 

Silvferbeg is 3.75 with simlar numbers to Colborne.

Reily smith was 3.4 2 offseasons ago with numbers pretty simlar to Colborne as well. 

 

I can't really find a comparable signed in the last 2 years that compares favorable to colborne and is less than 3 mill. If he goes to arbitration I think he is getting at least 3.25 or higher. an ARb case does not favor the Flames IMO. 

This team simply can't keep taking players to market value contract figures. BT has to take the approach, if you want to stay here is what we can pay you.

[Flyerfan52]

I forget, isnt there some rule sbout the award amount determining if they can walk away or not? Thought I read somewhere at a certain level they could be stuck?

Good insight, why would you not start him? I agree they may not part with him for the reasons you mentioned..thinking mainly of the cap issues they face as well as possible expansion as leverage. Ideally I was thinkung to target Enroth as well for a great platoon..but curious why you dont see him as a starter?

Since he graduated to pro I've noticed that when his workload goes up his GAA does as well while his SV% drops. He can start a few games in a row if necessary but isn't the guy you want starting the majority.

[kehatch]

Has to be 3.5 million or more.

3.9 or more which the Colborne ruling will be under. Which means we won't have the option to walk away.

Can always walk away from the arbitration ruling if he files. Would lose him for nothing, which isn't Ideale or course.

I'm assuming they'd only want to walk away if he got the minimum award anyway. I still personally think they should be shopping him. I don't think he fits where the team is going. Even if the return is minimal I think the cap space and roster space is more valuable to them right now

See above. The fact he will get awarded too much in Arbitration means he likely isn't a trade candidate.

[cross16]

3.9 or more which the Colborne ruling will be under. Which means we won't have the option to walk away.

See above. The fact he will get awarded too much in Arbitration means he likely isn't a trade candidate.

 

Thanks for the correction. I didn't know it was indexed to the average salary increase.

 

I'n not sure it menas he is untradable, It just means he isn't worth very much which I figured anyway. I don't really care about the return and if they got even a 3rd/4th rounder back for him i'd make that deal. I think he is too expensive for the Flames for what he will do here, but I do think there are other teams that even at 3 mill or more he would fit better so I"m not sure I agree he isn't tradable. 

[kehatch]

My larger concern is that the Flames pull a Bouma and sign him to a longer term extension to try to get a bit more value in the signing.  If we get stuck with the arbitration results we should just select one year.  That is what we should have done when we were in the same situation with Bouma. 

 

Fortunatley, Colborne is a better player then Bouma so i don't see his contract being quite as bad as Bouma's is.  

[cross16]

My larger concern is that the Flames pull a Bouma and sign him to a longer term extension to try to get a bit more value in the signing.  If we get stuck with the arbitration results we should just select one year.  That is what we should have done when we were in the same situation with Bouma. 

 

Fortunatley, Colborne is a better player then Bouma so i don't see his contract being quite as bad as Bouma's is.  

 

If they insist on signing him then I agree they should only do a 1 year deal. My main problem with Colborne is while I agree he helps you right now i'm not so sure he is going to help you, in relation to his salary, in 2-3 years time and I just think cap space is going to be so important to them at that point.

 

comes down to whether or not you believe Colborne is or can be a top 6 forwrad. I don't, so i'm not in favor of a long term deal but if they are then it makes sense to sign. I just don't like the fit long term and it means you either have to trade him for next to nothing or even not qualify him I would go that route rather than get stuck with a bad arb award or forced into a long term deal.