Goaltending

[jjgallow]

If you could pick and choose which games or periods to include every goalie would ha E radically different stats. Over a 10 game sample most teams are going have a period or game that is off.

 

Which is why, we shouldn't truly be evaluating when we're subtracting his last 10 or so games from the equation.

 

I'd like to see him finish over 900.   I'd be a bit disappointed if he doesn't, actually.

 

But doing a bunch of stats calcs after he's had a couple off-games, doesn't interest me.

 

They should, imho, sit him for a game and let him watch it.   Then get him back in there.   Would have liked to see them do that last night.

[phoenix66]

It is NHL calibre, but barely and its certainly not good. Tied for 40th in the league. 

 

Disagree with the bolded too. Ask anyone who follows the Blackhawks, or Lighnting about how their teams were playing the first half of the season. Their goalies kept them in it, stole games and allowed their teams to find themselves and now both are rolling. 

 

 

My point is you are placing way too much importance on a number that has way too many variables in it. These other goalies, how many shots are in close?.. odd man rushes? We allow a LOT of good quality scoring chances.. too many

Detroit used to get outshot badly for years, but they kept all the shots to the perimeter..it was frustrating , but they all counted as saves.

I'm not saying for a second that Ortio has been stellar.. but hes definitely showing he can play. When Kipper was good, he saw the shots he was stopping . once teams learned to create traffic on him they started getting thru . He sucked at Shootouts because he could be beat one on one. same is true for any goalie in game play .. until they learn to work in quality scoring chances into the equation its just another number.  Like i said before, Bishop would drop coming here.. Id be surprised if King Henry got much above .910

[MAC331]

My point is you are placing way too much importance on a number that has way too many variables in it. These other goalies, how many shots are in close?.. odd man rushes? We allow a LOT of good quality scoring chances.. too many

Detroit used to get outshot badly for years, but they kept all the shots to the perimeter..it was frustrating , but they all counted as saves.

I'm not saying for a second that Ortio has been stellar.. but hes definitely showing he can play. When Kipper was good, he saw the shots he was stopping . once teams learned to create traffic on him they started getting thru . He sucked at Shootouts because he could be beat one on one. same is true for any goalie in game play .. until they learn to work in quality scoring chances into the equation its just another number.  Like i said before, Bishop would drop coming here.. Id be surprised if King Henry got much above .910

I don't think you solely hang your hat on this stat either. You have to look at the quality of saves vs the allowed goals when watching a goaltender. There are so many deflected fluke goals these days the goalies have no chance on.

The knock on Ortio for me is the easy stops top corners he misses and he has to be way better on those.

[phoenix66]

I don't think you solely hang your hat on this stat either. You have to look at the quality of saves vs the allowed goals when watching a goaltender. There are so many deflected fluke goals these days the goalies have no chance on.

The knock on Ortio for me is the easy stops top corners he misses and he has to be way better on those.

exactly!   things like that I pin on the coaches, and with experience you learn tendencies of players, and teams. The very fact he's .904 at the moment I find quite promising 

[DirtyDeeds]

What in the Blue Blazes , is wrong with a .904 ??? anything above .900 is NHL caliber  and you cant go by the wins record , its hard to win when your team scores 1 measley goal.. if you think for  one second Ben Bishop can come there and keep his .928 you're dreaming , when you look at the amount of actual scoring chances each team gets on them . Its rare these contending teams need a goalie to steal a game. It does happen , but unless we get them stealing one every night we're not getting the wins in our current state

 

.904 gets you the 64th best goalie in the league. That means there is 63 better goalies out there.

 

Is this the standard of goaltender you think is acceptable for our team? 

[phoenix66]

.904 gets you the 64th best goalie in the league. That means there is 63 better goalies out there.

 

Is this the standard of goaltender you think is acceptable for our team? 

 

well then I'd be worried .. cuz at least 5 goalies on that list have been talked as serious targets for us to acquire as our new #1

[s4xon]

well then I'd be worried .. cuz at least 5 goalies on that list have been talked as serious targets for us to acquire as our new #1

 

The only 2 I would love to see the Flames make a push for would be Bishop or Andersen.  (or Mrazek, but that's a dream scenario lol).

 

I keep hearing talk from Flames fans about Reimer, but I've never been high on the guy.  If he couldn't make it with the Leafs, he's not going to be much better with the Flames.

 

Other than the two mentioned above, I don't see much else in the way of future possibilities.

[MAC331]

The only 2 I would love to see the Flames make a push for would be Bishop or Andersen.  (or Mrazek, but that's a dream scenario lol).

 

I keep hearing talk from Flames fans about Reimer, but I've never been high on the guy.  If he couldn't make it with the Leafs, he's not going to be much better with the Flames.

 

Other than the two mentioned above, I don't see much else in the way of future possibilities.

How do you see them as possibilities ? what would propose to obtain them ?

[s4xon]

How do you see them as possibilities ? what would propose to obtain them ?

 

Well, it's no secret that either wouldn't come cheap.  Goalies, and starters at that, tend to come at a high price these days.  The Flames do have a solid pocket full of picks they could deal with, and also a few players on hand that could potentially be dealt.  The Flames won't be paired up with Gio forever.  Like it or not.  He's a viable option while his stock is at it's highest.

 

Bishop has one more year on his contract at nearly 6 mil cap hit.  With Stamkos looking like a possibility of exiting the club, they may look to retool on the fly.  Andersen will be an RFA, and Gibson is already signed long term.  Anything is possible if either the Ducks or the Bolts have needs in other areas and are willing to deal.

 

I did forget to mention Raanta as well, from NY.  He may be a doable FA signing if the Flames can entice him, and the Rangers don't put ink to paper with him before Free Agency.

[MAC331]

Well, it's no secret that either wouldn't come cheap.  Goalies, and starters at that, tend to come at a high price these days.  The Flames do have a solid pocket full of picks they could deal with, and also a few players on hand that could potentially be dealt.  The Flames won't be paired up with Gio forever.  Like it or not.  He's a viable option while his stock is at it's highest.

 

Bishop has one more year on his contract at nearly 6 mil cap hit.  With Stamkos looking like a possibility of exiting the club, they may look to retool on the fly.  Andersen will be an RFA, and Gibson is already signed long term.  Anything is possible if either the Ducks or the Bolts have needs in other areas and are willing to deal.

 

I did forget to mention Raanta as well, from NY.  He may be a doable FA signing if the Flames can entice him, and the Rangers don't put ink to paper with him before Free Agency.

So your solution is Giordano as the key package piece. Like it or not, I don't see that happening this offseason.

[phoenix66]

Well, it's no secret that either wouldn't come cheap. Goalies, and starters at that, tend to come at a high price these days. The Flames do have a solid pocket full of picks they could deal with, and also a few players on hand that could potentially be dealt. The Flames won't be paired up with Gio forever. Like it or not. He's a viable option while his stock is at it's highest.

Bishop has one more year on his contract at nearly 6 mil cap hit. With Stamkos looking like a possibility of exiting the club, they may look to retool on the fly. Andersen will be an RFA, and Gibson is already signed long term. Anything is possible if either the Ducks or the Bolts have needs in other areas and are willing to deal.

I did forget to mention Raanta as well, from NY. He may be a doable FA signing if the Flames can entice him, and the Rangers don't put ink to paper with him before Free Agency.

The issue with Bishop is the only way they move him is to clear cap to sign Stamkos. Meaning they won't be taking on money. It will take likely first round picks and top prospects. If they feel they will be losing Stamkos they won't be trading him

I also agree I really hope Reamer is not our target. Totally on board with Raanta however

[s4xon]

So your solution is Giordano as the key package piece. Like it or not, I don't see that happening this offseason.

 

He's not my solution.  I said he was a viable option, and I agree, it most likely won't happen this offseason.

 

Bennett, Mony, Gaudreau, all are viable options.  So are draft picks.  So are prospects.  So is cap space.  Assets are assets.  It's up to the GM to decide which ones are expendable for a need, and which ones are needed with the club. 

 

What would be your solution to starting goaltender needs, other than hoping Gillies pans out?

[robrob1974]

The issue with Bishop is the only way they move him is to clear cap to sign Stamkos. Meaning they won't be taking on money. It will take likely first round picks and top prospects. If they feel they will be losing Stamkos they won't be trading him

I also agree I really hope Reamer is not our target. Totally on board with Raanta however

If Stamkos doesn't help them win the Cup this year I can see them walk away from him. It's like having an expensive rental, only they're renting in-house on the hopes that he can push them over the edge.

Although, if he is highly instrumental in helping them get far in the playoffs that might be reason to keep him as well.

They part ways if he has a similar playoffs as last year. If he is as quiet as he was then they don't sign him.

[rocketdoctor]

With our goaltending woes this season how much of it should be pinned on the goaltender coach?

 

The first goal Ortio gave up against the Blues the other night was so Hiller like that my first thought was this a coaching issue.

[MAC331]

He's not my solution.  I said he was a viable option, and I agree, it most likely won't happen this offseason.

 

Bennett, Mony, Gaudreau, all are viable options.  So are draft picks.  So are prospects.  So is cap space.  Assets are assets.  It's up to the GM to decide which ones are expendable for a need, and which ones are needed with the club. 

 

What would be your solution to starting goaltender needs, other than hoping Gillies pans out?

I like what I am seeing from Ortio and I would prefer a good tandem with a more experienced partner. I think we need to keep our costs down for a few years yet. I like the idea of getting a blocked goalie like Kinkaid in NJ or a FA such as Raanta or Enroth. I know Reimer and Elliott have been mentioned as well but are they worth the money they want. BT will be looking hard.

[travel_dude]

I like what I am seeing from Ortio and I would prefer a good tandem with a more experienced partner. I think we need to keep our costs down for a few years yet. I like the idea of getting a blocked goalie like Kinkaid in NJ or a FA such as Raanta or Enroth. I know Reimer and Elliott have been mentioned as well but are they worth the money they want. BT will be looking hard.

 

Ortio has been very bad to ok to good to very good this season.  If he falters in the next 10 starts (assuming he gets that many), would you still be comfortable with him as a backup for next year?  I don't know myself.  He should be dialed in right now, so anything less than top performance by him should be cause for concern.

 

Not saying he will falter, but it is just as likely as him playing lights out.  Probably more likely that he plays a middling set of games; good overall but eratic rebound control or 3.0 GAA/0.905 SA%.  OK, but not great.  What do we do then?

[Carty]

One of the things that has been discussed at the GM's meeting is that starting next season some of the goal tending equipment will be reduced in size so it is more in proportion to the actual size of the goaltender...  So far it sounds like the upper body protection and the pants...   It's still not enough of a change, but at least it's a step in the right direction...   Pads (still a little too wide and a few inches too tall), blocker, trapper and over-sized jerseys need to be shrunk as well, but at least it's a start...

 

I put this here, because the trend to reduce equipment size will affect what kind of goaltender teams will be looking for...   The blocking style goaltender will be affected the most by the equipment changes, and the more athletic goaltenders with better reflexes will be the ones who's performance will not be affected as much...

[darth_henning]

Interesting. While equipment has been getting bigger, I've never notice that the body protection or pants was a particular issue. 

 

Pads and blockers are more the issue in my mind. 

 

The body protection can only be so loose before it does more harm than good, so its a little difficult to abuse as much. 

[KidKappa]

I've suggested getting Anders Lindback a few times, with the rules changing on goalie equipment, a physically large goalie is more important as well.  I think he's athletic and large, and could be had on the cheap.  

[Carty]

Interesting. While equipment has been getting bigger, I've never notice that the body protection or pants was a particular issue. 

 

Pads and blockers are more the issue in my mind. 

 

The body protection can only be so loose before it does more harm than good, so its a little difficult to abuse as much. 

 

It's huge, and over about the last 20 years, it has increasingly been designed to add size, not just protection...

 

They all know it, and that is why it has become an issue that is being addressed...

 

Here are a few examples...

 

[travel_dude]

Interesting. While equipment has been getting bigger, I've never notice that the body protection or pants was a particular issue. 

 

Pads and blockers are more the issue in my mind. 

 

The body protection can only be so loose before it does more harm than good, so its a little difficult to abuse as much. 

 

There were a few pieces done on this (one by HNIC, one by Sportsnet) that showed the differences in equipment.  The width of the chest protector, the way it make the shoulders higher, the extra pieces on the trapper and blocker, etc turn a small goalie into a piece of plywood. 

[darth_henning]

I'll defer. I've only played as a forward recreationally, and I've never really looked at goalie equipment (let alone the pro level stuff) Seeing those pics there's a lot more additional pieces than I expected. 

[MAC331]

Ortio has been very bad to ok to good to very good this season.  If he falters in the next 10 starts (assuming he gets that many), would you still be comfortable with him as a backup for next year?  I don't know myself.  He should be dialed in right now, so anything less than top performance by him should be cause for concern.

 

Not saying he will falter, but it is just as likely as him playing lights out.  Probably more likely that he plays a middling set of games; good overall but eratic rebound control or 3.0 GAA/0.905 SA%.  OK, but not great.  What do we do then?

I would based on what I have seen of him. All other times have also been small samples so I don't see why not.

[travel_dude]

I would based on what I have seen of him. All other times have also been small samples so I don't see why not.

 

If he manages a total of 20 starts for the season and his win-loss ratio is 2-17-1 or something like that, would you sign him?  That would likely see his SA% around 0.900 and his GAA around 3.0.  That doesn't inspire much confidence.  

[MAC331]

If he manages a total of 20 starts for the season and his win-loss ratio is 2-17-1 or something like that, would you sign him?  That would likely see his SA% around 0.900 and his GAA around 3.0.  That doesn't inspire much confidence.  

I would yes