Goaltending

[travel_dude]

I agree that it has to be the right opportunity and not to jump on someone because of stats or status according to scouts. Hiller did provide that and I reread my post and should have clarified that when I meant younger I meant someone that we could have got more than 2 years out of. Of course a lot of us believed the Orito could become that #1 goalie, which is maybe why Hiller was brought in to bridge that gap until he was ready, but I think we all see now that he is the same goalie we saw in the beginning no consistency. We have 2 young prospects in Gilles and McDonald that are unknown at this point (If Gilles wasn't injured it would have made things easier), Orito is a backup at best but probably headed over seas soon and Ramo and Hiller are not the future. If Bishop and Bernier had longer at least 3-4 more years I would be more comfortable with bringing them in on a trade at the right price but both have 1 year left after this year and are going to be expensive to resign. I would love to pluck Vasilevskiy from Tampa but they need $ and unless we take on another bad contract that won't happen (all the bad contracts have at least 2 + years left). Another option is Grubauer out of Washington, which may be easier with Washington having the Future #1 in the system in Ilya Samsonov but again it may cost more than I would like to see.   

 

The good goalies have careers into their 30's, so Bishop and Bernier could be long-term solutions.  Very seldom do you find a goalie at the top of his game when he is 22.  Luongo and Miller are still near the top of their games at age 35-ish.  So, given that, Gillies is a few years from being near his top form.

[JTech780]

Most goalies don't become full time starters till 26 or 27.

I think if you can get a true number 1 you take that opportunity. A number 1 goalie can be the biggest factor to helping a rebuilding team. A number 1 goalie can cover up mistakes that all young players make, thus allowing players go develop with confidence and as opposed to being scared that every mistake they make is going to end up in the back of the net.

[MAC331]

The good goalies have careers into their 30's, so Bishop and Bernier could be long-term solutions.  Very seldom do you find a goalie at the top of his game when he is 22.  Luongo and Miller are still near the top of their games at age 35-ish.  So, given that, Gillies is a few years from being near his top form.

Thinking about our situation I believe it is best to wait until the offseason with the door wide open. If you take a chance on Bernier with his 1 year remaining you maybe have the FA goalies stay away from Calgary. If Bernier doesn't shape up to TOR liking there may still be a deal to be had should we strike out with anything else.

[travel_dude]

Thinking about our situation I believe it is best to wait until the offseason with the door wide open. If you take a chance on Bernier with his 1 year remaining you maybe have the FA goalies stay away from Calgary. If Bernier doesn't shape up to TOR liking there may still be a deal to be had should we strike out with anything else.

 

That may be the course of action CGY takes.  Bishop and Bernier will likely cost in trade in the summer.  The cost to get Bernier is never lower than now.  Bishop will be a harder sell prior to TDL, as teams will have difficulty taking on his deal, if they in fact want to move him.

 

Bernier is just a buy ow option right now.  If he doesn't pull it together in TO this season, he will be a buy out or waiver fodder.  And I have no interest at that point.

 

Bishop has the most value right now and the future for us.  Would need to move salary to make it work.

 

I believe that Hiller's days are numbered.  The fact he didn't get a start in the B2B or aftre two straight losses likely means he is a Christmas return or re-gift.  Sounds cold, but I think he is done in Calgary. 

[robrob1974]

I agree that it has to be the right opportunity and not to jump on someone because of stats or status according to scouts. Hiller did provide that and I reread my post and should have clarified that when I meant younger I meant someone that we could have got more than 2 years out of. Of course a lot of us believed the Orito could become that #1 goalie, which is maybe why Hiller was brought in to bridge that gap until he was ready, but I think we all see now that he is the same goalie we saw in the beginning no consistency. We have 2 young prospects in Gilles and McDonald that are unknown at this point (If Gilles wasn't injured it would have made things easier), Orito is a backup at best but probably headed over seas soon and Ramo and Hiller are not the future. If Bishop and Bernier had longer at least 3-4 more years I would be more comfortable with bringing them in on a trade at the right price but both have 1 year left after this year and are going to be expensive to resign. I would love to pluck Vasilevskiy from Tampa but they need $ and unless we take on another bad contract that won't happen (all the bad contracts have at least 2 + years left). Another option is Grubauer out of Washington, which may be easier with Washington having the Future #1 in the system in Ilya Samsonov but again it may cost more than I would like to see.   

 

They also recently talked about how coaches didn't like Ortio's work ethic during Camp, which is possibly why Hartley and Co never gave him any opportunity other than the little bit he got. 

 

For some reason, I've never been sold on Ortio but hoped that he could get there. He had a good stretch, even Scrivens had one of those with the Oilers. 

That may be the course of action CGY takes.  Bishop and Bernier will likely cost in trade in the summer.  The cost to get Bernier is never lower than now.  Bishop will be a harder sell prior to TDL, as teams will have difficulty taking on his deal, if they in fact want to move him.

 

Bernier is just a buy ow option right now.  If he doesn't pull it together in TO this season, he will be a buy out or waiver fodder.  And I have no interest at that point.

 

Bishop has the most value right now and the future for us.  Would need to move salary to make it work.

 

I believe that Hiller's days are numbered.  The fact he didn't get a start in the B2B or aftre two straight losses likely means he is a Christmas return or re-gift.  Sounds cold, but I think he is done in Calgary. 

 

If he's in fact done with Calgary, does he get buried in the AHL and we take up Ortio? or what happens? or we just ride Ramo out for the rest of the year?

[cross16]

Bishop won't get moved mid season, no chance. Only way I think he gets moved at all is Lightning re-sign Stamkos and need to move dollars out. 

 

I agree the Flames are best to wait this out and see what they get for the rest of the year unless a top goalie falls into their lap (which I don't think is going to happen). I'm not fan of Hiller either but I woudln't read too much into that B2B. If the Flames didn't have 5 days off here I have no doubt Hiller would have started that game. 

[travel_dude]

They also recently talked about how coaches didn't like Ortio's work ethic during Camp, which is possibly why Hartley and Co never gave him any opportunity other than the little bit he got. 

 

For some reason, I've never been sold on Ortio but hoped that he could get there. He had a good stretch, even Scrivens had one of those with the Oilers. 

 

If he's in fact done with Calgary, does he get buried in the AHL and we take up Ortio? or what happens? or we just ride Ramo out for the rest of the year?

 

I just see a trade for a goalie as imminent, coming after the trade freeze.  Hartley doesn't trust him even in a B2B.  Ortio could be a possibility if he continues to get his game back.  The added game time will at least allow him to be ready if they pull the trigger.  If the trade includes a goalie coming back, Ortio stays where he is.

 

 

Bishop won't get moved mid season, no chance. Only way I think he gets moved at all is Lightning re-sign Stamkos and need to move dollars out. 

 

I agree the Flames are best to wait this out and see what they get for the rest of the year unless a top goalie falls into their lap (which I don't think is going to happen). I'm not fan of Hiller either but I woudln't read too much into that B2B. If the Flames didn't have 5 days off here I have no doubt Hiller would have started that game. 

 

I think you see a deal for Stamkos coming before TDL.  They probably already have min and max worked out, and have a framework for a deal.  If they do, then they would have their backs to the wall come summer.  As much as I would like to see, I don;t know we have enough useful parts to make a great offer.

 

I think that the B2B game was the best time you could have started Hiller.  They were important games to win, and one should have gone to the backup if you have any faith at all in him.  

[Cowtownguy]

If we do not get a great goalie after drafting Ortio, Gillies, and McDonald, I think we have some serious problems with developing players. Each one of these guys showed greatness early in their careers. We have to stop relying on other teams to do this work for us because they charge a premium for doing do. I don't blame them either. I realize identifying talent is very hard, but we have to do better at this position. 

[JTech780]

If we do not get a great goalie after drafting Ortio, Gillies, and McDonald, I think we have some serious problems with developing players. Each one of these guys showed greatness early in their careers. We have to stop relying on other teams to do this work for us because they charge a premium for doing do. I don't blame them either. I realize identifying talent is very hard, but we have to do better at this position.

At any given point there are 20 or less number 1 goalies in the league. A vast majority of the goalies drafted don't turn out to be number 1 goalies even if they showed a lot of potential early in their career.

[Dmac1103]

_{I don't think Tampa moves Bishop because they have a number of other bad contracts that they could move before they move their starting goalie (Filppula, Callahan, Stralman etc) They would move one or two of those with a younger player like Namestnikov, Kucherov to get the money they need to resign Stamkos. I say this because if they trade Bishop and still do not resign Stamkos then they just lost their best Forward and starting goalie for very little since in any trade they will not want to take on Salary unless it comes off the books this summer.}

_{As for getting someone younger my thinking is we want a goalie to grow into our system, think of it like this when Hamilton got here we all thought we have another top 2 defenseman that will put us over the top, but we saw him struggle at the beginning and now as he get's more comfortable we are seeing the player we thought we got from the beginning. That is my reasoning to go after a goalie that has the capabilities of being a starter but maybe stuck behind someone. Another reason behind this is that Bernier maybe a long term solution but with only a year left on his contract is he going to look for a similar contract or more, that is a good possibility and with having to sign some of our younger players coming off entry level contracts. I stay the best option is to find that back up on the verge of being a number 1 but is stuck behind someone. That is why I mentioned a player like Vasilevskiy because Tampa has other young promising goalies, we would take on a bad contract for to get him but it would cost us very little.} 

[JTech780]

I think Tampa likes Vasilevsky better than they like Bishop. There is zero chance they move Vasilevsky it would be like us moving Bennett.

[cross16]

I'm not so sure its that Tampa likes Vasilevsky more its that Vaslivesky can probably be very good at a fraction of the cost. Dmac is right there are contracts the LIghting could shed but the problem is do you get anything for them 1 and 2- who replaces them? I think the motivation to trade Bishop is that you already have an in house reaplacment ready to go who can likely step in day 1. Not sure you can say that if you move guys like Fillpula/Cllahan etc. I'm not sure you would find a taker for Callahan at his contract. 

[MAC331]

I'm not so sure its that Tampa likes Vasilevsky more its that Vaslivesky can probably be very good at a fraction of the cost. Dmac is right there are contracts the LIghting could shed but the problem is do you get anything for them 1 and 2- who replaces them? I think the motivation to trade Bishop is that you already have an in house reaplacment ready to go who can likely step in day 1. Not sure you can say that if you move guys like Fillpula/Cllahan etc. I'm not sure you would find a taker for Callahan at his contract. 

I don't think we have what it would takes to get Bishop, do you ?

[cross16]

I don't think we have what it would takes to get Bishop, do you ?

 

I do. Bishop won't go for as much as you think as he's only got 1 more year left on his deal before he is a UFA and goalie markets dont' tend to get too crazy. Corey Schenider, who I woudl argue probably had more trade value than Bishop cost the 10th overal pick. I think a 1st and Coloborne, or a 1st and a pretty good propsect would put you in the conversation. 

[MAC331]

I do. Bishop won't go for as much as you think as he's only got 1 more year left on his deal before he is a UFA and goalie markets dont' tend to get too crazy. Corey Schenider, who I woudl argue probably had more trade value than Bishop cost the 10th overal pick. I think a 1st and Coloborne, or a 1st and a pretty good propsect would put you in the conversation. 

Would you do that when he is making 6M ?

[cross16]

Would you do that when he is making 6M ?

 

Depending on the other player/prospect yup. The salary doesn't scare me at all a top end goalie, which Bishop is, is worth 6 mill no problem. His next contract scares me a bit but if you cant get him in the 6 mill range for a few more season, its well worth it. Bishop would be a game changer to this franchsie IMO. 

[travel_dude]

I do. Bishop won't go for as much as you think as he's only got 1 more year left on his deal before he is a UFA and goalie markets dont' tend to get too crazy. Corey Schenider, who I woudl argue probably had more trade value than Bishop cost the 10th overal pick. I think a 1st and Coloborne, or a 1st and a pretty good propsect would put you in the conversation. 

 

Are you saying that they do that deal now or before the draft or in the summer?  If before, it would need to be lotto protected, though there would be a bigger chance of making the playoffs with him playing now.

[cross16]

Are you saying that they do that deal now or before the draft or in the summer?  If before, it would need to be lotto protected, though there would be a bigger chance of making the playoffs with him playing now.

 

Summer. I don't think there is any chance Bishop gets traded before the summer if he does at all. As i've said before, I only think Bishop gets traded if Stamkos re-signs and if he doesn't i'm not so sure Bishop will get traded but either way its a summer trade not a deadline one. 

[JTech780]

I doubt that we get anyone better than Ramo before the end of the season. If we can get an upgrade on Hiller before the end of the season for cheap, that you look at it otherwise we have to go with what we have.

I think Bishop, Varlamov and Howard could all be available at the draft. Howard maybe available if Detroit wants to make cap space for a defenseman for the playoff run.

[travel_dude]

Summer. I don't think there is any chance Bishop gets traded before the summer if he does at all. As i've said before, I only think Bishop gets traded if Stamkos re-signs and if he doesn't i'm not so sure Bishop will get traded but either way its a summer trade not a deadline one. 

 

Summer is fine and makes sense, but is that before the draft or after?  A 1st this year may be worth a lot or be a 16-30 range pick.  At the draft, it would be a known quantity.  A pick next year is a big unknown, but with a goalie like Bishop, is probably just a 16-30th.

[cross16]

Summer is fine and makes sense, but is that before the draft or after?  A 1st this year may be worth a lot or be a 16-30 range pick.  At the draft, it would be a known quantity.  A pick next year is a big unknown, but with a goalie like Bishop, is probably just a 16-30th.

 

Probably done by draft or shortly after. I figure by the time the draft rolls around Tampa is going to know whether or not Stamkos is a possiblity or not so I think they likely will have the decision made by then. Where the picks is for the Flames would potentially change my mind whether or not giving up a first for Bishop would be worth it. If Flames have a top 10 pick I woudln't do it but I also don't suspect they will have a top 10 pick. 

[cross16]

I doubt that we get anyone better than Ramo before the end of the season. If we can get an upgrade on Hiller before the end of the season for cheap, that you look at it otherwise we have to go with what we have.

I think Bishop, Varlamov and Howard could all be available at the draft. Howard maybe available if Detroit wants to make cap space for a defenseman for the playoff run.

 

I think Howard gets moved for sure. Mzarek is playing more games and playing better when he does and Detroit being a bit of a budget team latrely I think will want the money elsewhere. I use to be interested in Howard but now i'm not. I didn't realize he has 3 more years after this one at 5 mill so I will pass. He seems to have run into injury problems the last few years and becuae of that is only barely above an avg calibre NHL starting goaltender. I would probably prefer Ramo on a shorter term deal and work with Gilles than take on Howard's deal. 

[JTech780]

I think Howard gets moved for sure. Mzarek is playing more games and playing better when he does and Detroit being a bit of a budget team latrely I think will want the money elsewhere. I use to be interested in Howard but now i'm not. I didn't realize he has 3 more years after this one at 5 mill so I will pass. He seems to have run into injury problems the last few years and becuae of that is only barely above an avg calibre NHL starting goaltender. I would probably prefer Ramo on a shorter term deal and work with Gilles than take on Howard's deal.

Yeah Howard makes me a little uneasy, especially with that contract. He sort of reminds me of Hiller.

[CheersMan]

The chart below captures a 5 game moving Save Percentage for one particular NHL goalie that is definitely available via trade.  Each point on the chart represents the average of his last 5 games played.  The chart only captures his last 15 games played this year. 

 

First question is;

Would you be interested in acquiring this goalie?  Yes or No.  

If yes, what would you offer in trade to acquire the goalie?

 

[xstrike]

The chart below captures a 5 game moving Save Percentage for one particular NHL goalie that is definitely available via trade.  Each point on the chart represents the average of his last 5 games played.  The chart only captures his last 15 games played this year. 

 

First question is;

Would you be interested in acquiring this goalie?  Yes or No.  

If yes, what would you offer in trade to acquire the goalie?

Is this a trick and it's one of our GKs (possibly Ramo)?