Goaltending

[conundrumed]

We had a choice to draft either top ranked Thatcher Demko or second ranked Mason McDonald in the 2014 entry draft and we went with McDonald. The Canucks took Demko two picks later.  Did the Flames make a mistake here?  McDonald is having a fairly average season in the Q whereas Demko is dominating College...

I don't think that at all, After seeing M&Ms interviews, I think we took who was best through the process. My only knock might be lack of cockiness, but it's what you do with the goalie once you have him with you. It's too early to tell. Neither goalie is around his pro team, it's players/prospects or coaches.

I'm happy with the pick, he's a pretty astute kid with the right attitude.

[travel_dude]

We had a choice to draft either top ranked Thatcher Demko or second ranked Mason McDonald in the 2014 entry draft and we went with McDonald. The Canucks took Demko two picks later.  Did the Flames make a mistake here?  McDonald is having a fairly average season in the Q whereas Demko is dominating College...

 

At the time, Demko was playing on a powerhouse team with the best offensive line in the NCAA.  The next year he played with Hanifin in front of him.  Based on his play up to the point of the draft, he wasn't posting super numbers.  His play in the Frozen Four was less than spectacular.  At the time, the Flames scouts were keeping a close eye on the NCAA, and BC in particular, with Arnold, Johnny and Hayes (potential FA).

[jjgallow]

We had a choice to draft either top ranked Thatcher Demko or second ranked Mason McDonald in the 2014 entry draft and we went with McDonald. The Canucks took Demko two picks later.  Did the Flames make a mistake here?  McDonald is having a fairly average season in the Q whereas Demko is dominating College..

 

Absolutely.  The Flames made a mistake.   The rest of the hockey and scouting world had it right. Period.  

 

The Flames are NOT good at scouting goalies and this is Not something they should have even attempted to "beat the draft" at, frankly.  All they needed to do was pick the best ranked player available.  That was probably Demko.  Not to turn this into a BPA thread, but powerhouse team or not, any player who's Already in US College on draft day, is probably special.  Especially, especially, a goaltender.  Goaltenders develop late.  Any goaltender that jumps ahead in development like that, should have meant something.  And it did, to the rest of the hockey and scouting world.

 

 

On a more upbeat note:   Ortio is getting back into form with back-to-back second strong games in the AHL:

http://theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?id=4090

 

Will he ever get the chance he deserves now?   Tough to say.  But he appears to be making up for the lost playing time and getting where he needs to be.

[AlbertaBoy12]

Absolutely.  The Flames made a mistake.   The rest of the hockey and scouting world had it right. Period.  

 

The Flames are NOT good at scouting goalies and this is Not something they should have even attempted to "beat the draft" at, frankly.  All they needed to do was pick the best ranked player available.  That was probably Demko.  Not to turn this into a BPA thread, but powerhouse team or not, any player who's Already in US College on draft day, is probably special.  Especially, especially, a goaltender.  Goaltenders develop late.  Any goaltender that jumps ahead in development like that, should have meant something.  And it did, to the rest of the hockey and scouting world.

 

 

On a more upbeat note:   Ortio is getting back into form with back-to-back second strong games in the AHL:

http://theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?id=4090

 

Will he ever get the chance he deserves now?   Tough to say.  But he appears to be making up for the lost playing time and getting where he needs to be.

Im not sure what the problem is with macdonald, the kid is doing ok a very poor team in the QJMHL which is a poor league defensivel. I am not worried until we look at this in a few years and see what happens. As we all know goalies are complete voodoo( as you can see with many goalies), and playing for team canada at the world juniors could mean macdonald is great or doesnt amount  to anything, thats how weird goalies are. If in a few years we are looking at it and theres a big difference, I still cant be upset with the scouts. I really doubt it was as simple as we are going to beat the system and draft macdonald, they must have seen something in macdonald but not demko.

[darth_henning]

 

On a more upbeat note:   Ortio is getting back into form with back-to-back second strong games in the AHL:

http://theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?id=4090

 

Will he ever get the chance he deserves now?   Tough to say.  But he appears to be making up for the lost playing time and getting where he needs to be.

 

I think its a little early to say. One bad game, two good ones. Not enough of a sample size. 

 

With Ramo finally playing decently, and Hiller surviving his return, I expect we run with the current tandem till TDL with Ramo taking the load. As long as the results stay the same I'm ok with that. 

 

Ortio I think gets a solid shot next year as I expect Hiller to be gone for sure and Ramo to be 50/50 at best for retention.

[420since1974]

I think both Hiller & Ramo will be gone at the end of this season, and Orito will be backing up a UFA or traded for goalie next year.

 

But if one survives, it may be Ramo, based solely on his play vs Hiller's so far.

[travel_dude]

Last night is a perfect example of just okay goaltending in a winning cause.  At times, it looked really solid.  At other times, Hiller was in the butterfly (or low to the ice) with traffic in front of him.  Risto's wrister was a bit of a muffin, but he was on the wrong side of the net, trying to look through a maze of players.  The 3rd goal was a fluke, similar to a bunch scored in the early part of the season.

 

All in all, it wasn't a great showing, but it was enough to win.  

[Kulstad]

Last night is a perfect example of just okay goaltending in a winning cause.  At times, it looked really solid.  At other times, Hiller was in the butterfly (or low to the ice) with traffic in front of him.  Risto's wrister was a bit of a muffin, but he was on the wrong side of the net, trying to look through a maze of players.  The 3rd goal was a fluke, similar to a bunch scored in the early part of the season.

 

All in all, it wasn't a great showing, but it was enough to win.  

 

Not bad at all, for a goalie who is still recovering from the flu and wasn't expected to play at all.

[travel_dude]

Not bad at all, for a goalie who is still recovering from the flu and wasn't expected to play at all.

 

You are right.  I forgot that.  There was a closeup of his face in the 3rd and he looked gassed.  His energy level was probably next to nil by that point.  

[kehatch]

If Gaudreau has a mediocre game because of illness he gets a pass. He has earned that with his play. I really didn't like the second goal last night and the third was pretty weak as well. Tough to give Hiller a pass since he hasn't played well sick or healthy.

[robrob1974]

If Gaudreau has a mediocre game because of illness he gets a pass. He has earned that with his play. I really didn't like the second goal last night and the third was pretty weak as well. Tough to give Hiller a pass since he hasn't played well sick or healthy.

It's possible he was gassed by the third.

[travel_dude]

If Gaudreau has a mediocre game because of illness he gets a pass. He has earned that with his play. I really didn't like the second goal last night and the third was pretty weak as well. Tough to give Hiller a pass since he hasn't played well sick or healthy.

 

If he had played like that early in the season, he would have received another game, sick or healthy.  But it wasn't goaltending that won the game, it was the play of Johnny and Monahan and Granlund.

 

If both goalies are healthy tomorrow, I would still give the game to Ramo; he has been the tender that kept us afloat for the last month.  I hear what you are saying, though.  Saying that Johnny has a mediocre game would have to be compared to Price having one.  Neither Hiller nor Ramo should get a pass.  If Hiller was 100% healthy, last night would have been one of his better ones.  Low standards, hey?

[conundrumed]

If Gaudreau has a mediocre game because of illness he gets a pass. He has earned that with his play. I really didn't like the second goal last night and the third was pretty weak as well. Tough to give Hiller a pass since he hasn't played well sick or healthy.

Man your harsh. Gaudreau plays every game.

Hiller hasn't played more than 1 game in how long?

Nice comparison, god you're miserable about most things.

I particularly liked Ristolainen's 2nd goal, he shot to the opposite side. Who does that?

Wish he was on my team.

Hiller's been an NHL goalie for years, why not say, "wow is that Ristolainen a sharp player".

They have Evander Kane, Sam Reinhart, Ryan O'Reilly, Eichel, etc I don't recall them beating Hiller...

Take your positives.

[cross16]

There were times last night where you could tell Hiller wasn't feel well, caught him may times hunched over almost grasping for air. I get Kehatchs point but I do think he deserves a pass. guy played well enough to win despite feeling like crap. 

We had a choice to draft either top ranked Thatcher Demko or second ranked Mason McDonald in the 2014 entry draft and we went with McDonald. The Canucks took Demko two picks later.  Did the Flames make a mistake here?  McDonald is having a fairly average season in the Q whereas Demko is dominating College...

 

We shall see. I prefered Demko but i think its early.

 

WJC should tell a lot with Demko slated to start for US and McDonald for team Canada. Long time to go before we can say the Flames made a mistake here. 

I don't mean it as a knock on Jankowski, just that I don't think we had a plan, just prayers.

Irving had established he isn't an NHL goalie, Ramo was unknown, Ortio in the 5th hardly seems like a great part of a master plan, and then we sign a goalie from the Swiss league.

I can correct myself if you like, we had a plan, but a really sketchy one.

I'm not overboard with Vasilevsky, but he was definitely a formidable goalie coming into the draft, but a Russian one.

Our plan really was trial by fire, not development. Our goaltending now looks exactly like that.

 

All of this is easy in hindsight, but the reality is we had a ton of holes in the roster, at center for a start. I know I'm being simplistic in "maybe we should have", but it's cause and effect nonetheless.

We have a good chunk of change tied up in our goaltending for what it is, even a Greiss looks fine tandeming at 1/3 of the cost as I mentioned pages ago.

Perhaps we're over-thinking it?

 

The point it, even the best laid goalie plan is sketchy becuase goalies are "sketchy" by nature. hardest position to plan for because so much can change so quickly. The flames went out and got themsevles a variety of options and so far it hasn't worked to the level you want but thats the challenge of devleopoing goalies and not a knock on the Flames IMO. 

[JTech780]

There were times last night where you could tell Hiller wasn't feel well, caught him may times hunched over almost grasping for air. I get Kehatchs point but I do think he deserves a pass. guy played well enough to win despite feeling like crap.

We shall see. I prefered Demko but i think its early.

WJC should tell a lot with Demko slated to start for US and McDonald for team Canada. Long time to go before we can say the Flames made a mistake here.

The point it, even the best laid goalie plan is sketchy becuase goalies are "sketchy" by nature. hardest position to plan for because so much can change so quickly. The flames went out and got themsevles a variety of options and so far it hasn't worked to the level you want but thats the challenge of devleopoing goalies and not a knock on the Flames IMO.

Demko is a year older than McDonald and is too old to play in WJC this year.

[JTech780]

With the argument about McDonald VS Demo, you can't look at the stats side by side, one league is an offense first league where a goalie will face 35+ with regularity, the other is a defense first league where a goalie facing more than 25+ shots is an irregularity.

The NCAA has 18 goalies with a save % better than . 920, The Q has 0.

With goalie stats, the stats don't give a big enough picture to tell how well the goalie is actually playing.

[cross16]

Demko is a year older than McDonald and is too old to play in WJC this year.

 

 

Well my bad. didn't think to confirm that. 

[kehatch]

Man your harsh. Gaudreau plays every game.

Hiller hasn't played more than 1 game in how long?

Nice comparison, god you're miserable about most things.

I particularly liked Ristolainen's 2nd goal, he shot to the opposite side. Who does that?

Wish he was on my team.

Hiller's been an NHL goalie for years, why not say, "wow is that Ristolainen a sharp player".

They have Evander Kane, Sam Reinhart, Ryan O'Reilly, Eichel, etc I don't recall them beating Hiller...

Take your positives.

 

SV% .862, GAA 3.75, W 3.  Worst in SV% and GAA among NHL goalies that have played at least 9-games.  Third worst in wins.  Tough to be cheery about Hiller's performance this season.  

[jjgallow]

SV% .862, GAA 3.75, W 3.  Worst in SV% and GAA among NHL goalies that have played at least 9-games.  Third worst in wins.  Tough to be cheery about Hiller's performance this season.  

 

it's easy...just pretend it's his batting average and hey...not so bad.

[MAC331]

Man your harsh. Gaudreau plays every game.

Hiller hasn't played more than 1 game in how long?

Nice comparison, god you're miserable about most things.

I particularly liked Ristolainen's 2nd goal, he shot to the opposite side. Who does that?

Wish he was on my team.

Hiller's been an NHL goalie for years, why not say, "wow is that Ristolainen a sharp player".

They have Evander Kane, Sam Reinhart, Ryan O'Reilly, Eichel, etc I don't recall them beating Hiller...

Take your positives.

Ristolainen should have been laid out when he tried to take off Gaudreau's head and maybe he would not have been so effective.

Our team needs more aggressiveness and more standing up for each other when the situation call for it. You can notice our opposition thinking they can push us around.

[conundrumed]

Ristolainen should have been laid out when he tried to take off Gaudreau's head and maybe he would not have been so effective.

Our team needs more aggressiveness and more standing up for each other when the situation call for it. You can notice our opposition thinking they can push us around.

The play wasn't nearly so bad if Jones weren't falling towards Johnny from the backside. Ristolainen isn't dirty, but he's 6'4 and talented, he's going to let you know he's out there if you're a huge threat like Johnny.

Thankfully it was no worse, but I doubt Ristolainen meant to push him down into an oncoming falling player, just to get him out of the play.

I'm not out to defend the guy, but the Sabres have quite the 21yo Dman there. He had his game, we won, Johnny's okay, it's all good!

 

 

SV% .862, GAA 3.75, W 3.  Worst in SV% and GAA among NHL goalies that have played at least 9-games.  Third worst in wins.  Tough to be cheery about Hiller's performance this season.  

Understandable, but being a vet, I have to believe he'll be better like the team as a whole had to be better.

[conundrumed]

There were times last night where you could tell Hiller wasn't feel well, caught him may times hunched over almost grasping for air. I get Kehatchs point but I do think he deserves a pass. guy played well enough to win despite feeling like crap. 

 

We shall see. I prefered Demko but i think its early.

 

WJC should tell a lot with Demko slated to start for US and McDonald for team Canada. Long time to go before we can say the Flames made a mistake here. 

 

The point it, even the best laid goalie plan is sketchy becuase goalies are "sketchy" by nature. hardest position to plan for because so much can change so quickly. The flames went out and got themsevles a variety of options and so far it hasn't worked to the level you want but thats the challenge of devleopoing goalies and not a knock on the Flames IMO. 

I do agree and admit I was working in hindsight, looking back on "what if"? I freely admit, but I still do not see a firm plan back then, regardless, just a bunch of, pick 1: desparation; low on the list in importance.

But again, it's purely in hindsight and being suggestive where I'm purely speculating. So I apologize for that and for inferring a weak strategy by the org.

 

So outside of all that, let's talk about the top 5 in the league(subjective):

Price

Lundqvist

Quick

Rinne

Holtby

Just my thoughts, but all of these guys are Grade A attitude-riddled posteriors on the ice.

They won't break their sticks if you score on them, but they'll break their sticks on you if you annoy them.

I get thinking that should be your focus in draft interviews, is he passive, no thanks. Does he have an edge? Let's push his edge.

Maybe I'm beating the wrong drum here, but can you coach intensity?

If it's true you build a team from the net out, my first wish would be intensity. A goalie with a chip on his shoulder daring everyone to knock it off.

That isn't Ramo or Hiller, you have to admit. Should we adjust to picking up goalies, more to the kind of anti-mindset than we seem to be running with?

[DirtyDeeds]

I do agree and admit I was working in hindsight, looking back on "what if"? I freely admit, but I still do not see a firm plan back then, regardless, just a bunch of, pick 1: desparation; low on the list in importance.

But again, it's purely in hindsight and being suggestive where I'm purely speculating. So I apologize for that and for inferring a weak strategy by the org.

 

So outside of all that, let's talk about the top 5 in the league(subjective):

Price

Lundqvist

Quick

Rinne

Holtby

Just my thoughts, but all of these guys are Grade A attitude-riddled posteriors on the ice.

They won't break their sticks if you score on them, but they'll break their sticks on you if you annoy them.

I get thinking that should be your focus in draft interviews, is he passive, no thanks. Does he have an edge? Let's push his edge.

Maybe I'm beating the wrong drum here, but can you coach intensity?

If it's true you build a team from the net out, my first wish would be intensity. A goalie with a chip on his shoulder daring everyone to knock it off.

That isn't Ramo or Hiller, you have to admit. Should we adjust to picking up goalies, more to the kind of anti-mindset than we seem to be running with?

Any motivational coach will tell you it is mostly finding the right button to press to coach the intensity.

 

As for a goalie with a chip on his shoulder??? why is this a big concern. Kipper was awesome yet had no chip on his shoulder....

Sure find a good character goalie that hates to lose.....

 

Chip on shoulder.. no so important...

[MAC331]

The play wasn't nearly so bad if Jones weren't falling towards Johnny from the backside. Ristolainen isn't dirty, but he's 6'4 and talented, he's going to let you know he's out there if you're a huge threat like Johnny.

Thankfully it was no worse, but I doubt Ristolainen meant to push him down into an oncoming falling player, just to get him out of the play.

I'm not out to defend the guy, but the Sabres have quite the 21yo Dman there. He had his game, we won, Johnny's okay, it's all good!

 

 

Understandable, but being a vet, I have to believe he'll be better like the team as a whole had to be better.

I agree I would love to have him. I still would have had someone mess with him over the situation. Who knows, maybe you buy Johnny some space or maybe you take him off is game somewhat, maybe he does get 3 goals. Right now our whole team has no intimidation factor going for it and they need it.

I agree I would love to have him. I still would have had someone mess with him over the situation. Who knows, maybe you buy Johnny some space or maybe you take him off is game somewhat, maybe he does get 3 goals. Right now our whole team has no intimidation factor going for it and they need it.

should say "does not get 3 goals" where is the edit tab when you need it

[DirtyDeeds]

 

should say "does not get 3 goals" where is the edit tab when you need it

 

 

Edit....... just left of "MultiQuote" or just right of "Report".