Goaltending

[jjgallow]

[travel_dude]

 

I guess that must be Ortio's 5-hole.  4 goals on 12 shots?  Yikes.  First action in a long time, so understandable I guess.

 

After a rather solid Ramo performance, we likely get to see Hiller against a hot Sharks team.  The Sharks had a 6-0 road trip, followed by a home loss to CHI on Wednesday.  And they play the Flames after a Flames road loss.  Captain Hook may be on standby for Hiller's first game in a month.

[DirtyDeeds]

I'm not sure I trust Hiller, given his last starts.  He is a month since playing.  You may not agree, but Hiller should have been assigned (agreed to of course) to the Heat for the 14 day stint.  If Hiller starts and gets lit up, what then?  If Ortio gets claimed, what then?

 

Neither of those is certain, but both are realistic possibilities.  No different than waiving a Paul Byron.  

When sending a vet down for conditioning you have to have the players consent to do this. All Hiller has to say is no and they can't do it.

[travel_dude]

When sending a vet down for conditioning you have to have the players consent to do this. All Hiller has to say is no and they can't do it.

 

I understand this. and it was possible that Hiller declined.  We will probably never know if he was asked.  All I was getting at was that it was an option.  With Hiller starting cold against a hot Sharks team, he will be under the gun.  He may be fine or he may give up a bunch of goals and get the hook.  His body of work this year when healthy does not give me a lot of confidence.  Not saying Ortio should have got the start, just stating the obvious,

[DirtyDeeds]

Same, I don't think the Flames should've re-signed Ramo either.   Clearly, they mistakenly thought,

• Competition can transform mediocre goaltending into elite goaltending
• There will be a trade market for whoever of Hiller and Ramo is playing poorly
• Someone will steal Ortio off waivers so he will be on the team no matter what

In terms of goalies we developed, all I can think of is Dwayne Roloson and JS Giguere, both of whom went on to have successful careers with other teams.  Kidd was a disaster.  We rushed him and he was ruined. 

1. Can't blame the Flames for creating competition. It is the Goaltenders who have to take those opportunities and show up. None of them came out of camp having made a good impression.

 

2. Fan 960 said a few weeks ago that the Flames had a deal for Hiller over the summer. They did not say with who or why the deal fell through but they did say this is why Ramo was signed when that deal fell through.

 

3. I would think if Ortio had  been sent down earlier instead of Ramo that he might have been claimed. After his 2 poor performances I can only think of a couple of teams that might be interested.(Oilers for example). Even then you claim any player off waivers and they have to stay up with the parent NHL club, so there is little likelihood that any NHL team would be willing to claim Ortio this time.

[travel_dude]

1. Can't blame the Flames for creating competition. It is the Goaltenders who have to take those opportunities and show up. None of them came out of camp having made a good impression.

 

2. Fan 960 said a few weeks ago that the Flames had a deal for Hiller over the summer. They did not say with who or why the deal fell through but they did say this is why Ramo was signed when that deal fell through.

 

3. I would think if Ortio had  been sent down earlier instead of Ramo that he might have been claimed. After his 2 poor performances I can only think of a couple of teams that might be interested.(Oilers for example). Even then you claim any player off waivers and they have to stay up with the parent NHL club, so there is little likelihood that any NHL team would be willing to claim Ortio this time.

 

Pretty low risk to claim him though.  Montreal could have done that while Price is on the shelf.  After Price returned, he could have been offered back to the Flames, assuming that he wasn't better than Condon.  

[jjgallow]

I guess that must be Ortio's 5-hole.  4 goals on 12 shots?  Yikes.  First action in a long time, so understandable I guess.

 

After a rather solid Ramo performance, we likely get to see Hiller against a hot Sharks team.  The Sharks had a 6-0 road trip, followed by a home loss to CHI on Wednesday.  And they play the Flames after a Flames road loss.  Captain Hook may be on standby for Hiller's first game in a month.

 

Ortio's or Hiller's?

 

Or just generally, Any goaltender who isn't given any playing time for weeks/months?

 

Or more generally, goaltending this year?

 

Yes, in the last 8 games, Ramo's been better.  Not even brilliant.  I would say, he's played like a starter should be expected to play.

 

But don't you worry, the Flames will mess that up too.

 

Frustrating.

[travel_dude]

Ortio's or Hiller's?

 

Or just generally, Any goaltender who isn't given any playing time for weeks/months?

 

Or more generally, goaltending this year?

 

Yes, in the last 8 games, Ramo's been better.  Not even brilliant.  I would say, he's played like a starter should be expected to play.

 

But don't you worry, the Flames will mess that up too.

 

Frustrating.

 

Unfortunately, this was an obvious result.  Play Hiller in the 2nd half of a B2B against a fresh team that is near top in the West. Use your better goalie in a game against a team that isn't that good.

 

Oh, BTW, Ortio is looking better in his 2nd game.  Only 1 goal so far on 16 shots.

[jjgallow]

Unfortunately, this was an obvious result.  Play Hiller in the 2nd half of a B2B against a fresh team that is near top in the West. Use your better goalie in a game against a team that isn't that good.

 

Oh, BTW, Ortio is looking better in his 2nd game.  Only 1 goal so far on 16 shots.

 

Yeah, it as an obvious result.  The weird thing is, they'll give Hiller lots more games until he gets back into his usual form.

 

Yet if it happens to Ortio, they bury him.  And out of the three, Ortio has the most potential.  I'm not claiming he was a second coming or a savior.

 

But short-sighted?  yes.  Because at this stage, I believe Ortio could have done better than Ramo or Hiller if he were given the same opportunities.  Which of course he wasn't, so we may never know.

[travel_dude]

Yeah, it as an obvious result.  The weird thing is, they'll give Hiller lots more games until he gets back into his usual form.

 

Yet if it happens to Ortio, they bury him.  And out of the three, Ortio has the most potential.  I'm not claiming he was a second coming or a savior.

 

But short-sighted?  yes.  Because at this stage, I believe Ortio could have done better than Ramo or Hiller if he were given the same opportunities.  Which of course he wasn't, so we may never know.

 

You will have to talk to Bob about his coaching strategies.  Last year, he made questionable choices, but was rewarded with average goaltending and above average top line production.  This year, he is still making questionable decisions, but the goaltending is sub-par, Ortio's play included.

[jjgallow]

You will have to talk to Bob about his coaching strategies.  Last year, he made questionable choices, but was rewarded with average goaltending and above average top line production.  This year, he is still making questionable decisions, but the goaltending is sub-par, Ortio's play included.

 

Well to his defense, Bob didn't think having 3 NHL goalies signed would be a particularly brilliant idea.

 

So while I may disagree with Bob, I think the finger points further up on this.

[Carty]

I miss having Kipper on the team...

 

 

[Carty]

Maybe we could give the Kipper Kid a shot...

 

[MAC331]

BH has always been one to experiment way to much with his lines. Last year I think he lucked out with getting what he did from Gaudeau, Monahan and Hudler. This line isn't getting it done this year. Now he seems desperate for scoring and is afraid to move away from what work before or even a bit so far this year.

 

I make no apologizes, I think BH has created this mess and has no idea how to correct it.

[travel_dude]

BH has always been one to experiment way to much with his lines. Last year I think he lucked out with getting what he did from Gaudeau, Monahan and Hudler. This line isn't getting it done this year. Now he seems desperate for scoring and is afraid to move away from what work before or even a bit so far this year.

 

I make no apologizes, I think BH has created this mess and has no idea how to correct it.

 

We are beyond the coach's ability to fix the goaltending problem.  Hiller has not shown the ability to stop 92% or better of the shots at all this season.  There is no reason to believe that will change.  BH can give Hiller all the starts in the world, but he isn't getting that SV%.  Ramo has shown the ability to turn in that kind of game, but will still let in a game-changer every once in awhile.  I don't think we will see much better than 6/10 from him.

 

The defense is playing safe, for the most part.  They will pinch at times but mostly on the rush or trying to hold the line with pressure.  What you don't tend to see is those 50/50 plays that the Flames typically pinched on last year.  The ones where the puck is close to a Flames defender at the line, but they back off.  These happen a lot when we are applying pressure.

 

The things that BH can do are fix special teams and defensive systems.  Those two things alone could be the difference between a loss and a win.  0-3 on the PP and Sharks 2-2 on the PP.  Possible 5 goal swing.  The only other thing BH can do is play the goalie that makes the most sense.  Rusty Hiller?  Don't start him on the 2nd of a B2B against a division leader.  

[MAC331]

We are beyond the coach's ability to fix the goaltending problem.  Hiller has not shown the ability to stop 92% or better of the shots at all this season.  There is no reason to believe that will change.  BH can give Hiller all the starts in the world, but he isn't getting that SV%.  Ramo has shown the ability to turn in that kind of game, but will still let in a game-changer every once in awhile.  I don't think we will see much better than 6/10 from him.

 

The defense is playing safe, for the most part.  They will pinch at times but mostly on the rush or trying to hold the line with pressure.  What you don't tend to see is those 50/50 plays that the Flames typically pinched on last year.  The ones where the puck is close to a Flames defender at the line, but they back off.  These happen a lot when we are applying pressure.

 

The things that BH can do are fix special teams and defensive systems.  Those two things alone could be the difference between a loss and a win.  0-3 on the PP and Sharks 2-2 on the PP.  Possible 5 goal swing.  The only other thing BH can do is play the goalie that makes the most sense.  Rusty Hiller?  Don't start him on the 2nd of a B2B against a division leader.  

Having some solid specialty line for PK and checking the oppositions top line would make me happy and that starts with moving Backlund out of the top 6 and giving Stajan better line mates made for that type of responsibility.

 

You can go on about the goalie decisions but I don't think it matters now. Why not throw Hiller in and give Ramo a break on back to backs, normal practice by most teams.

[Carty]

 

Is that a pic of Hiller's 5 hole?  

[travel_dude]

Is that a pic of Hiller's 5 hole?  

 

It's a pic of his 5-hole, his 3-hole, his nn-hole.

 

It also a picture of the well of Hartley witty sayings about this team - as you can see it's gone completely dry.

[Thebrewcrew]

Remember hearing on 960 a few weeks ago they were talking about potential upgrades in goal either at the deadline or in the summer.

Some of the options were:

Andersen -which is unlikely since the Ducks are a divisional rival

Howard- the Wings have Mrazek who could be a stud

Bishop- Bolts have Vasilevski

Varlamov

Reimer- the starter in TO now, but after years of being screwed over by the Leafs, he may be looking to move in the summer.

Bernier- no thanks

Ward

Hutchinson/Pavelec- since the Jets have Hellebuck and Comrie

 

What are your guys thoughts?

[travel_dude]

Leafs are supposedly thinking about waiving Bernier.  I don't think it would work to claim him, as we don't have the space or roster available.  Perhaps a Hiller for Bernier trade would make some sense to both parties.  Not a big risk to the Leafs, as they don't have any confidence in Bernier anymore.  Not a big risk to the Flames, as he couldn't be any worse than Hiller and he could get some confidence back.

 

If they waive him, he will likely clear.  We could make the trade with him assigned to the Marlies and bring him to CGY (or Stockton).

Would need to call up Simpson or Ortio until we saw what Bernier looked like in the AHL.

 

He may be one of those types that get better with a move.  His stats were better in Y1 ib TO, similar last year, and better than Hiller this year (even in 0-8 starts).

[cross16]

I have no interest in Bernier. I don't think his game was ever that good to begin with so I don't buy the whole he may find his game argument. I think he got overrated playing behind the Kings in the organization and is not an upgrade over Hiller.

I don't think an upgrade is likely during the season because why would teams like Lightning or Wings move a goalie? Unfortunately I think the flames will have to wait until the offseason but I think they will have options it will just depends on the price. I'd push hard for bishop personally as I think the Lightning may move him to save some money.

[jjgallow]

Is that a pic of Hiller's 5 hole?  

 

To be 100% honest and truthful....that may be a pic of our Defense right now.  But it's a lot more interesting to talk about the goalies, lol

[Carty]

To be 100% honest and truthful....that may be a pic of our Defense right now.

 

Nope...   I'm pretty sure this is our D...

 

[robrob1974]

Nope...   I'm pretty sure this is our D...

 

 

And people think our top 4 is fine the way it is...

[Carty]

And people think our top 4 is fine the way it is...

 

Going into the season, on paper our D looked like one of the best in the league...

 

When it's been as bad as it has for this many games, coaching (including special teams) has to be called into question...

 

Even adding a player like Hamonic would not "fix the D" at this point...   To turn it around will require a better coaching strategy, motivation and effort from the players...