Goaltending

[travel_dude]

20 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

For you information, if you had any interest in basing your post on reallity, there were exactly ZERO messages in this thread following Smith's bad game.  Zero.

 

A lot of people were quick to trash the trade, so those same people providing some positive comments after 3 wins in a row or 4 wins in total.

 

Let's talk about his bad game(s). 

Game 1 - over 40 saves, kept in an outclassed team long enough to give them a chance.  Was it really a bad game?  Breakaway by McD.  Tap in by McD.

Game 5 - I don't know how many were good or bad goals.  Flames were in it until things started unraveling.  What I do remember was there were very few people commenting about the game in progress.  The GDT had various comments about the the team, but most was about the team shutting it down early.

 

Don't worry, if any goalies we have on the team start to lay eggs on a nightly basis, this will thread will start to fill up with negative goalie stuff, whether deserved or not.

 

From my perspective, I have seen a few positives so far:

• when was the last time the Flames won a home opener?  2010 was it?
• I enjoyed seeing a Flames goalie stop odd-man rushes and breakaway chances, instead of the inevitable goal
• getting outshot and still winning a game?  

[cross16]

Got to be honest....

 

I have no idea what this thread is even discussing anymore 

[CheersMan]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Got to be honest....

 

I have no idea what this thread is even discussing anymore 

 

I thought we were talking about Smith, our MVP at the moment, but seems like skeletons are about to be tossed out of the closet.  Halloween is approaching is in not?

[Zirakzigil]

My worry now is not about Smith being overplayed but Lack not getting enough game time. Lack should have started against the Canucks regardless of how Smith felt. That was the perfect game for him and was the plan, coaches should have stuck too it. 

[kehatch]

6 hours ago, Zirakzigil said:

My worry now is not about Smith being overplayed but Lack not getting enough game time. Lack should have started against the Canucks regardless of how Smith felt. That was the perfect game for him and was the plan, coaches should have stuck too it. 

 

I think it was the right call. Smith is the starter. He had been playing very well for us until one bad game where he was pulled. If you start with Lack the game after it is the wrong message. Let Smith get back on the horse. Lack will get his chance soon I am sure. 

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, kehatch said:

 

I think it was the right call. Smith is the starter. He had been playing very well for us until one bad game where he was pulled. If you start with Lack the game after it is the wrong message. Let Smith get back on the horse. Lack will get his chance soon I am sure. 

I would think Carolina would be a good game for Lack to start in.

[Zirakzigil]

17 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

I think it was the right call. Smith is the starter. He had been playing very well for us until one bad game where he was pulled. If you start with Lack the game after it is the wrong message. Let Smith get back on the horse. Lack will get his chance soon I am sure. 

 

At some point though you have to get Lack in net for meaningful games. Smith is a big boy and understands that. A crappy Canucks team was the perfect game. 

 

15 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I would think Carolina would be a good game for Lack to start in.

Disagree. They are a talented up and coming team. Too many teams are underestimating them. They just manhandled the Oilers tonight. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Zirakzigil said:

 

At some point though you have to get Lack in net for meaningful games. Smith is a big boy and understands that. A crappy Canucks team was the perfect game. 

 

Disagree. They are a talented up and coming team. Too many teams are underestimating them. They just manhandled the Oilers tonight. 

 

I would rather put Lack in a game against a team he played well against and Smith has played bad against.  Nashville or Minny?

[MAC331]

8 hours ago, Zirakzigil said:

 

At some point though you have to get Lack in net for meaningful games. Smith is a big boy and understands that. A crappy Canucks team was the perfect game. 

 

Disagree. They are a talented up and coming team. Too many teams are underestimating them. They just manhandled the Oilers tonight. 

Vengence is motivation at times. Lack would love to beat that team I'm sure.

[JTech780]

I don't really like goalies playing their former teams. They would have taken thousands of shots on him in practice and warmups, seen him in a bunch of games, and know exactly what his weaknesses are. Usually playing your former team is good motivation, but I think it works against goalies.

 

Also Smith is coming off 5 days rest he is your number 1, send him back out there. 

 

I think we will see Lack next Wednesday in St.Louis.

[MAC331]

17 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I don't really like goalies playing their former teams. They would have taken thousands of shots on him in practice and warmups, seen him in a bunch of games, and know exactly what his weaknesses are. Usually playing your former team is good motivation, but I think it works against goalies.

 

Also Smith is coming off 5 days rest he is your number 1, send him back out there. 

 

I think we will see Lack next Wednesday in St.Louis.

Two schools of thought I guess but at the beginning of the season it is good to get everyone some game action. Sitting around isn't good for any player and back up goalies experience it the most as a way of life. I see every game as a challenge for your players and Lack needs to play since they took the VAN game away from him.

[travel_dude]

19 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Two schools of thought I guess but at the beginning of the season it is good to get everyone some game action. Sitting around isn't good for any player and back up goalies experience it the most as a way of life. I see every game as a challenge for your players and Lack needs to play since they took the VAN game away from him.

 

They gave the game to Smith, which was the right decision.  

 

An added problem of playing a former team is they may know things about you that other teams don't.  He was coached by CAR's goalie coach.  They knew his tendencies then and made changes to it.  They practiced against him.  Same is true of VAN, but that was not so recent.  

 

Go with the guy you have the most faith in, and had shown to be the best in practice.  Some nights you may make a snap decision, but that is sometimes just reviewing recent tapes and looking at the types and quality of shots that they put up.  If you have a blocking goalie, that may be the best one to use.

[cross16]

I agree that it was right to go back to Smith right away. Reality is that he's been winning the games for this team and for that reason alone I don't think they could have afforded a bad start from Lack and back to back losses. They needed a bounce back against Vancouver and I don't think going to your backup is a good way to kick start that. 

 

But I don't disagree they need to get Lack some games here soon. I wasn't a fan of Lack's pre season so i'm less thrilled with the idea of him sitting around for a while and then being expected to play well once he's in. Next week's back to back is obvious but then you don't have another back to back for a month and you need to get Lack at least a couple starts before then so they are going to have to get strategic here with playing Lack more. 

[JTech780]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I agree that it was right to go back to Smith right away. Reality is that he's been winning the games for this team and for that reason alone I don't think they could have afforded a bad start from Lack and back to back losses. They needed a bounce back against Vancouver and I don't think going to your backup is a good way to kick start that. 

 

But I don't disagree they need to get Lack some games here soon. I wasn't a fan of Lack's pre season so i'm less thrilled with the idea of him sitting around for a while and then being expected to play well once he's in. Next week's back to back is obvious but then you don't have another back to back for a month and you need to get Lack at least a couple starts before then so they are going to have to get strategic here with playing Lack more. 

 

I agree that they need to get Lack into some games soon and play him fairly regularly through the season. Smith is 35 so expecting him to play 70+ games isn't realistic. That being said this team needs to get off to a good start and the way Smith is playing right now, you have to keep riding the hot hand, especially since he is making up for a less than desirable start defensively for this team.

[cross16]

12 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I agree that they need to get Lack into some games soon and play him fairly regularly through the season. Smith is 35 so expecting him to play 70+ games isn't realistic. That being said this team needs to get off to a good start and the way Smith is playing right now, you have to keep riding the hot hand, especially since he is making up for a less than desirable start defensively for this team.

 

Very true but you also have to really guard against overplaying Smith now and then what happens when you get into March/April and the games get more meaningful?

West will be a dog fight all year. Again I understand what they are doing but Gulutzan had a tendency last year to ride a goalie a little too far IMO and I think it's something he can't repeat this year. Only a small concern of mine, especially consiering they arn't many games in between the back to backs that are obvious "backup" starts. 

 

[travel_dude]

38 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Very true but you also have to really guard against overplaying Smith now and then what happens when you get into March/April and the games get more meaningful?

West will be a dog fight all year. Again I understand what they are doing but Gulutzan had a tendency last year to ride a goalie a little too far IMO and I think it's something he can't repeat this year. Only a small concern of mine, especially consiering they arn't many games in between the back to backs that are obvious "backup" starts. 

 

 

My big issue with Gully last year was riding a goalie just a bit too long.  It was strictly win (or good performance) and you're in.

This year may be worse because he has a bonafide starter.  Harder to pick games with that guy being the goto guy.  I want him to look at teams that a particular goalie lines up well against.  But I would also like him to recognize alarm bells.  Elliott showed those tendencies but still got the start.  How bad was Elliott after his 10 game streak?  

 

Saying all that, Lack has to perform whenever he gets the call.  If he can't, then we need to know that sooner than later.  As a backup, he has to have at least a 500 record.  Anything else is reason to make a move, whether that be through picking up a waiver player, promote a guy for a few games that looks strong, or making a trade.  

[Zirakzigil]

Lack not playing against the Canucks is my point about him not playing though. Now the team has had a bunch of days off, which mean Smith is  rested, which means hes probably going to play the next few games at least. And that means another 1-2 weeks were Lack hasnt played a meaningful game. 

[jjgallow]

19 hours ago, Zirakzigil said:

Disagree. They are a talented up and coming team. Too many teams are underestimating them. They just manhandled the Oilers tonight. 

 

........herrrrrmmmm...

[jjgallow]

edit:  fake news.

[kehatch]

1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

Rittich with another shutout tonight.   That's 120 minutes of shutout hockey to start the season.     Winning me over.

 

Rumor is some in the organization think he has a better shot at bring an NHL starter then Gilles. He was a bit of a low chance / high reward pick up and so far he is showing he might make the NHL. My guess he is the first call up if we are looking for a goalie, but the season is early yet so that may change. 

[kehatch]

1 hour ago, Zirakzigil said:

Lack not playing against the Canucks is my point about him not playing though. Now the team has had a bunch of days off, which mean Smith is  rested, which means hes probably going to play the next few games at least. And that means another 1-2 weeks were Lack hasnt played a meaningful game. 

 

It's not about getting Lack starts. It's about getting Smith rest. And so far he hasn't needed it. 

 

I get the school of thought of getting the back up starts. But when you starter is hot and rested you play him. 

 

Also, it sounds like the coach didn't feel Lack was showing well in practice until a couple of practices ago. If true, that factors in as well. 

[MAC331]

All said and done I bet Smith plays next game.

[jjgallow]

11 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

It's not about getting Lack starts. It's about getting Smith rest. And so far he hasn't needed it.

 

Not true, it's about both.   Also, the affect of overplaying is clearly cumulative when you look at playoff performance.  It's not just about oh, well he's had a few days off, so it's like the season just started for him.

 

If you play a goalie 81 games in a row, and then there's a 3 day break in the schedule, by this logic, he would be fresh.

 

Fresh or not, he's overplayed and less likely to be effective in the playoffs, as shown countless times in this thread when doing analysis of goalie playoff performances relative to number of regular season games played.

 

We go through this every year an we keep running into the same logic stumbling blocks.  Said goalie didn't play hockey yesterday, so said goalie is therefore "fresh".   We are not understanding what being "overplayed" is.

 

Also, yes, it is about getting Lack starts too.   And I'm not just saying that to invite the obvious ensuing play on words (ok, I sort of am).   But Pittsburgh would have two less cups if Pittsburgh didn't manage to have two goalies ready for the playoffs.  And that process started early in the season.   Not a couple games before the playoffs.

[jjgallow]

edit:  fake news.

[CheersMan]

30 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

Rittich with another shutout tonight.   That's 120 minutes of shutout hockey to start the season.     Winning me over.

Is that wishful thinking or am I living in a parallel universe where it is 1-1 in the 2nd period tonight?