Goaltending

[phoenix66]

I am with you on this. I know it seems like I argue against having better goaltending. What I am actually saying is, the team can only improve so much with better goaltending that we're not necessarily in a playoff position. Other than having a good goalie, if we got one, our team is not very hard to play against in the defensive end. 

 

I fear that if we get Bishop, for say Bennett, our team makes him look bad. I fear the same about getting an Elliotte. But we will never know. 

 

I see Bishop as someone who is slightly worse than Crawford. And some on here believe Crawford is just average or above average. Sometimes the team makes the goalie better and sometimes the goalie makes the team better. I'd rather it somewhere in-between, and we're nowhere near the in-between when it comes to coverage and possession. Although closer than the year before. 

 

 

Totally with you here. i still contend we didn't have a Goaltending issue this year , we had a HILLER issue this year . i already posted in another thread so wont go into all the details again , but it was apparent to everybody except BH that it should have been Hiller waived, Not Ramo.

If not for the injury , I'd be totally content going into next season with Ramo and Ortio.

Take the horrendous start out of the equation where everybody sucked.. and Ramo and Ortio gave us for the most part , good goaltending . Hiller on the other hand, not so much

the difference between Hiller's and Ramo's SV% is 20 goals, which as we all saw were mostly of the bad timed back breaking variety

 

In a way its too bad Ramo will likely be odd man out due to an injury. Im certain we wouldn't  be looking for an immediate starter were it not for that . on the Plus side, it forced us to see what Ortio can really bring 

 

That being said, this is why overpaying for a starter is / should be out of the question . To overpay for a Bishop is Ludicrous.. anything higher than Dallas's pick should not even be in the equation , and even then should be for a SERIOUS upgrade to Ramo 

[phoenix66]

 

Bishop is having a Vesina candidate caliber year. His is not 30 yet and would instantly become a part of our core if we managed to get him. Those of you doubting his abilities should understand this season is not a one off year. He has put up similar numbers for at least 3 years now, and big reason why  his team challenged for the finals.

 

 

 

There is no way you could pry him away from Tampa even if they are signing Drouin, Stamkos and others for Kipper type money/draft picks.

My issue is not with Bishop per se, its the fact he can walk for nothing after 1 year , and also in the belief that people think he will bring his .924 with him- second rounder is all we should be giving up for him if hes a target , no more

[DirtyDeeds]

My issue is not with Bishop per se, its the fact he can walk for nothing after 1 year , and also in the belief that people think he will bring his .924 with him- second rounder is all we should be giving up for him if hes a target , no more

You won't get anywhere near his caliber anywhere in the league for a 2nd rounder... You get Berra the other "best goaltender not in the NHL" for a 2nd rounder..

 

You would be laughed at for making that offer for Bishop.....

[robrob1974]

My issue is not with Bishop per se, its the fact he can walk for nothing after 1 year , and also in the belief that people think he will bring his .924 with him- second rounder is all we should be giving up for him if hes a target , no more

 

 

That's what I fear. How many holes does Tampa have on their roster? 

What Drouin, I think is failing to see is, that there aren't a lot of holes where he can slot and get his ice time he wants, in comparison to guys like Monahan or even McInnon are getting on their respective teams. 

 

He's failing to see the process. 

Sure, I think Bishop can mask a few mistakes, but I still worry that the GAA and S% drop due to our teams roster. How much do they drop, I don't know.

[phoenix66]

You won't get anywhere near his caliber anywhere in the league for a 2nd rounder... You get Berra the other "best goaltender not in the NHL" for a 2nd rounder..

 

You would be laughed at for making that offer for Bishop.....

My point exactly, hes too expensive for us to be looking at then. I would consider   a conditional first  in 2017(or 18) contingent on him re- signing , but any higher than that - forget it 

[robrob1974]

Deeds, we got lucky getting a 2nd rounder for Berra. You know that. 

[phoenix66]

also .. with the likelihood of an expansion draft , many prices will come down 

 

Sure, I think Bishop can mask a few mistakes, but I still worry that the GAA and S% drop due to our teams roster. How much do they drop, I don't know.

It Absolutely will  probably to between .905-.910

[robrob1974]

also .. with the likelihood of an expansion draft , many prices will come down 

It Absolutely will  probably to between .905-.910

 

We have the same view on our goaltending then. I think it's a mix of both average goaltending and poor team defence. We still need to get a good goalie, but that good goalie will only get us to the point of sniffing a playoff birth. 

 

Someone was posting a few pages back about 30 less goals against puts us at how many more games won. Sure, numbers can be used, but they're not real in-game situations that are being considered.

 

Like take last year for example, the team won despite horrendous possession numbers. Anyone would look at it and say, this team is not a playoff team. The in-game situation changed that as you can't account for what happens from game to game. But you still have to get better at having the puck and keeping it out of your end and ultimately out of your net. 

[phoenix66]

 

Someone was posting a few pages back about 30 less goals against puts us at how many more games won. Sure, numbers can be used, but they're not real in-game situations that are being considered.

 

 

Totally , and just on that point , in regards to Hiller.. like i had put above, if Hiller had the same .909 as Ramo.. theres 20 of them right there

[travel_dude]

 

...

 

And no, I still don't agree with everything, but that should hardly be a shocker.   It is Unlikely that Bennett will be traded.  Just as it is unlikely that we get Matthews.   But our top young forward core is not completely untouchable.   Gaudreau is not untouchable.   Monahan and Bennett are currently untouchable, yes.   In a world with Matthews, it would be a an extremely difficult decision but they would not be untouchable.

 

You say that Gaudreau is not untouchable.  I get the comment, since anyone can be traded.  Why would say the opposite about Bennett and Monahan in intriguing, though.  So, in two seasons with the Flames, Johnny has a 64 point season and 78 points (pending tonight's results).  His first two seasons in the NHL.  That's scream untouchable as a franchise player on any team.  

 

There's a very small list of players I would trade Johnny for.  And I would question any of those player would make us a better team.

[robrob1974]

also .. with the likelihood of an expansion draft , many prices will come down 

It Absolutely will  probably to between .905-.910

Staying Optimus-tic

The assumption is that goalie James Reimer has found his way to unrestricted free agency at exactly the wrong time. To be precise, Reimer is said to be a good fit in Calgary, and nowhere else. If true, that gives him little or no bargaining power.

Embedded ImageI believe he’ll do better than whatever might be offered by the Flames in a limited market. Other teams don’t have to be desperate to show interest in Reimer once they examine his 2015-2016 numbers.

For the last-place Toronto Maple Leafs, 11-12-7 with a .918 save percentage can be called respectable. For the San Jose Sharks, 6-2-0 and a .938 save percentage, plus three shutouts, is an indication of what Reimer might be able to do with a better team in front of him.

This is why I am not as optimistic as some. I know it's Toronto, but he had good numbers with them and still played at a near .500 record, but his numbers jump out on a good team.

Are we that good team yet?

I got the quote from Dave Hodge on TSN. His thumbs are up for Reimer.

We are only how many points up on the Leafs?

[phoenix66]

This is why I am not as optimistic as some. I know it's Toronto, but he had good numbers with them and still played at a near .500 record, but his numbers jump out on a good team.

Are we that good team yet?

I got the quote from Dave Hodge on TSN. His thumbs are up for Reimer.

We are only how many points up on the Leafs?

well.. a .918 would be an improvement to our bunch. My biggest knock on Reimer is he has yet to play a full season . I wouldn't be upset if we ended up with him. 

[robrob1974]

I am using it as an example that .918 still wasn't getting the Leafs into the Playoffs. Granted we have a better team than Toronto, but our defensive lapses still open up a guy who can play. It's a matter of team make-up, system and defence as it's about getting a better goalie. 

 

I think Reimer could do worse here, but that's just me, as I think Babcock may coach defensive systems a bit more than Hartley.

[420since1974]

I am with you on this. I know it seems like I argue against having better goaltending. What I am actually saying is, the team can only improve so much with better goaltending that we're not necessarily in a playoff position. Other than having a good goalie, if we got one, our team is not very hard to play against in the defensive end. 

 

I fear that if we get Bishop, for say Bennett, our team makes him look bad. I fear the same about getting an Elliotte. But we will never know. 

 

I see Bishop as someone who is slightly worse than Crawford. And some on here believe Crawford is just average or above average. Sometimes the team makes the goalie better and sometimes the goalie makes the team better. I'd rather it somewhere in-between, and we're nowhere near the in-between when it comes to coverage and possession. Although closer than the year before. 

 

 

 

Are there any goalies out there that you would like to see the Flames sign or trade for?

I'm just wondering what you perceive Calgary's goal tending will look like for the next few seasons.

 

Personally, I haven't a clue, goalies are voodoo to me.

[robrob1974]

It's hard to say. I want a good goalie too. There doesn't seem to be much floating around out there right now. From what I am hearing, if the expansion draft goes next year, some extra goalies might be available through trades, just to get something for them. But who knows.

[darth_henning]

Congratulations to Backstrom for finishing his NHL career with a win. 

 

Wouldn't be adverse to him being a goalie coach here next year for whoever we have. 

[jjgallow]

You say that Gaudreau is not untouchable.  I get the comment, since anyone can be traded.  Why would say the opposite about Bennett and Monahan in intriguing, though.  So, in two seasons with the Flames, Johnny has a 64 point season and 78 points (pending tonight's results).  His first two seasons in the NHL.  That's scream untouchable as a franchise player on any team.  

 

There's a very small list of players I would trade Johnny for.  And I would question any of those player would make us a better team.

 

Difficult to answer this while staying on topic unfortunately...

 

Gaudreau is the oldest, and smallest of the three.   He's had the most success but I don't consider him the most valuable.   At this point in time, anyway.  That's not a knock on him.  I just have a really  high valuation of Monahan and Bennett.

 

There are some young Defencemen that I would trade for Gaudreau.    Coming back on topic.....

 

Yes, I agree, they are difficult to trade because it's extremely hard to win that trade.   For a goalie, it would have to be someone like Matt Murray or better.  It Could happen but it's unlikely and I'd think we'd lose that trade.

[420since1974]

"We are a nation of hockey incompetents this year, in mostly different ways. Montreal lost the best goaltender in the world. Calgary got the worst goaltending in the world. Winnipeg got the third-worst goaltending in the world. Get a goalie, kids. They come in handy."

 

 

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2016/04/02/we-all-know-edmontons-going-to-win-nhl-draft-lottery-again-right-arthur.html

[travel_dude]

Difficult to answer this while staying on topic unfortunately...

 

Gaudreau is the oldest, and smallest of the three.   He's had the most success but I don't consider him the most valuable.   At this point in time, anyway.  That's not a knock on him.  I just have a really  high valuation of Monahan and Bennett.

 

There are some young Defencemen that I would trade for Gaudreau.    Coming back on topic.....

 

Yes, I agree, they are difficult to trade because it's extremely hard to win that trade.   For a goalie, it would have to be someone like Matt Murray or better.  It Could happen but it's unlikely and I'd think we'd lose that trade.

 

Matt Murray for Gaudreau would be the worst trade in Flames history.  You don't trade a player that factored in on 33% of your offense for a goalie or defenseman.  It would have to be for a Giroux or Tarasenko.

[conundrumed]

Difficult to answer this while staying on topic unfortunately...

 

Gaudreau is the oldest, and smallest of the three.   He's had the most success but I don't consider him the most valuable.   At this point in time, anyway.  That's not a knock on him.  I just have a really  high valuation of Monahan and Bennett.

 

There are some young Defencemen that I would trade for Gaudreau.    Coming back on topic.....

 

Yes, I agree, they are difficult to trade because it's extremely hard to win that trade.   For a goalie, it would have to be someone like Matt Murray or better.  It Could happen but it's unlikely and I'd think we'd lose that trade.

I would say you're on the wrong track. We have to add strengths. If you add them by removing them, you're chasing your tail.

Gaudreau for Murray? If I'm Pittsburgh, I take that all day everyday.

What young Dmen would you trade Gaudreau for?

He's a ppg player and very dynamic and original. He's described as "worth the price of admission" by many.

Put down the pipe...

[robrob1974]

Difficult to answer this while staying on topic unfortunately...

Gaudreau is the oldest, and smallest of the three. He's had the most success but I don't consider him the most valuable. At this point in time, anyway. That's not a knock on him. I just have a really high valuation of Monahan and Bennett.

There are some young Defencemen that I would trade for Gaudreau. Coming back on topic.....

Yes, I agree, they are difficult to trade because it's extremely hard to win that trade. For a goalie, it would have to be someone like Matt Murray or better. It Could happen but it's unlikely and I'd think we'd lose that trade.

Gaudreau runs the play. Other than him and Monahan there is almost no offense. Sure, Backlund has started to get some points, but I am with a lot on the radio shows who say, where are these points when they matter most, and games are tougher.

[phoenix66]

Are there any goalies out there that you would like to see the Flames sign or trade for?

I'm just wondering what you perceive Calgary's goal tending will look like for the next few seasons.

 

Personally, I haven't a clue, goalies are voodoo to me.

 

 

 

 

It's hard to say. I want a good goalie too. There doesn't seem to be much floating around out there right now. From what I am hearing, if the expansion draft goes next year, some extra goalies might be available through trades, just to get something for them. But who knows.

 

 

 

I believe at this point , the odds of us Trading for a Big name isn't in the cards, i really don't. I'll be pleasantly surprised if BT pulls off a steal, but I feel realistically  we are looking short term on free agency, or we take a shot at a 1B / backup option (aka Talbot in Edm) 

 

If these goalies become available due to the Expansion draft , it likely wont be starting until next years TDL. Why would a team give up part of a great tandem for a full season if they don't have to ?If Im Tampa, Pittsburgh or Anaheim for example.. im keeping my tandems intact .. if I'm a contender i'm not trying to break in a new backup next year 

 

If we go free agency , I'd go Reimer. I don't believe he'll be super expensive,  will give us at least an upgrade, and he would likely be move able if necessary . All you have given up is money to do it

Antii Ranta is another possible target 

I have a feeling in some shape or form , we are not walking away from Ramo. not likely he's ready to start the season , if he does he'll need a stint in the A for conditioning . Then he can battle to get his job back.

i think they learned their lesson in how to manage 3 goalies so we wont see that debacle again , but the pressure will be on Ortio to keep his role here.

[travel_dude]

Difficult to answer this while staying on topic unfortunately...

 

Gaudreau is the oldest, and smallest of the three.   He's had the most success but I don't consider him the most valuable.   At this point in time, anyway.  That's not a knock on him.  I just have a really  high valuation of Monahan and Bennett.

 

There are some young Defencemen that I would trade for Gaudreau.    Coming back on topic.....

 

Yes, I agree, they are difficult to trade because it's extremely hard to win that trade.   For a goalie, it would have to be someone like Matt Murray or better.  It Could happen but it's unlikely and I'd think we'd lose that trade.

 

Maybe we should be thinking of using Ortio as a trade chip for a number 1 goalie.  Elliott or Allen or Vasilesky or Andersson.  Sure, we would then need a backup, but it also means we have a starter for the next 5 years.  Would need to add something to the deal, but it's at least the start of the makings of a deal.

[phoenix66]

Maybe we should be thinking of using Ortio as a trade chip for a number 1 goalie.  Elliott or Allen or Vasilesky or Andersson.  Sure, we would then need a backup, but it also means we have a starter for the next 5 years.  Would need to add something to the deal, but it's at least the start of the makings of a deal.

again , see my post above.. if you are those teams, why would you trade any of those goalies before next years TDL?

[DirtyDeeds]

again , see my post above.. if you are those teams, why would you trade any of those goalies before next years TDL?

These same teams with a good tandem, could just as easily trade one of those two because they will only be able protect one. If there are teams looking now or over the summer, then that could easily represent the best opportunity to get a decent return instead of waiting to the last minute for a firesale of the goalies they are not able to protect.