DirtyDeeds Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I'm with kehatch on this. And, at some point, the head coach has some responsibility towards Ortio's development, or lack thereof, as well. One could argue that wins are more important....that is, if wins were actually happening. I have a feelling changes are coming soon, though. Hope I'm right. Meanwhile, Jon Gillies is doing quite well in the AHL for his first year. Not well enough for a promotion yet, but definitely on scheudle or slightly ahead of schedule for his development. Last but not least, every few months or so I throw in Denis Godla's name. Time to do that again. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=106307 Scary good. Can't believe he's not drafted. So much talent. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=106307 NHL is not the place to develope Ortio. If he has some things to work on or needs developing, this is not the time or the place to do it. - Sitting on the bench here is not helping his development. - Being thrown to the wolves only on back to back game days on the Flames are not good for his development. If you are going to point fingers on his lack of development then the coach of the Flames is not the one to point fingers at. His job is to win games or he has no job. He will put in net the goaltender he feels who gives him the best chance to win. Nothing more. Getting Ortio development time in a game situation on NHL ice should be the last thing he considers in his thinking. So point fingers at BT. He is the one who decided we should have 3 goaltenders competing for 2 spots after preseason was over. He was the one who re-signed Ramo. He was the one who decided Ortio should not test Waivers. He was the one who created this scenario that will again become the 3 goaltenders competing for 2 spots in the lineup as soon as Hiller is ready to return. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I'm with kehatch on this. And, at some point, the head coach has some responsibility towards Ortio's development, or lack thereof, as well. One could argue that wins are more important....that is, if wins were actually happening. I have a feelling changes are coming soon, though. Hope I'm right. Meanwhile, Jon Gillies is doing quite well in the AHL for his first year. Not well enough for a promotion yet, but definitely on scheudle or slightly ahead of schedule for his development. Last but not least, every few months or so I throw in Denis Godla's name. Time to do that again. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=106307 Scary good. Can't believe he's not drafted. So much talent. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=106307 I am not nearly as high on Ortio as you, but I am little surprised at the reluctance to play him. I think he does belong in Stockton when Hiller comes back. As far as things changing, unless there is a trade for a true number 1 goalie like Varlamov I don't see much changing. It will be Hiller and Ramo sharing the net for the rest of the season. Godla showed well at the WJC, but so did Justin Pogge. Godla is going to have a tough time getting to North America due to his size. NHL teams just aren't interested in goalies under 6' tall, as far as I know Jhonas Enroth (backup) and Dustin Tokarski (3rd stringer) are the only sub 6' goalies currently in the NHL. He is also playing in tier 2 Finnish hockey not exactly the toughest competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 You make it sound like Hartley is supreme ruler and decides these things alone. The reality is he sits down with all the coaches and they discuss it as a group including the goalie coach and assistants. It is a group decision and the lack of trust may be coming from someone else or multiple other coaches and not just Hartley. The only thing you do have right, is looking at utilization there is definitely a lack of trust present, compared to both Hiller and Ramo. They have both been higher on the pecking order all season. They(coaches) are in a position to see the reasoning why, and we aren't. Why would you want to throw Ortio to the wolfes while the team out front is terrible ? I have to think the coaches are staying with the most experienced goalie for any kind or stability vs hoping a new goalie like Ortio can save the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I understand the argument that the Flames are a tough team to be a goalie for. I also understand that the AHL is for development and the NHL is for winning. But none of that changes two basic facts. 1) Ortio is not developing on the bench. In fact, the lack of playtime and trust is likely hurting his development. 2) What the Flames are doing isn't working. Rather then repeating the same mistake over and over again why won't they at least try the legitimate option of giving Ortio a few games? If Treliving thinks Ortio won't clear waivers, or if the team thinks the NHL is the best place for his ongoing growth, then they have to play him. If not they need to send him down. But the current management of Ortio is bordering on laughingly incompetent. I don't even like Ortio much. But Treliving reluctance to send him down and Hartley's reluctance to trade him is getting ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Why would you want to throw Ortio to the wolfes while the team out front is terrible ? I have to think the coaches are staying with the most experienced goalie for any kind or stability vs hoping a new goalie like Ortio can save the day. I certainly don't want Ortio thrown to wolves. I have said in a few places I thought 3 goalies up with the club, is doing Ortio very little good. In hindsight maybe he should be in Stockton again this season or BT should not have resigned Ramo.. Ortio needs Ice time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 If you are going to point fingers on his lack of development then the coach of the Flames is not the one to point fingers at. His job is to win games or he has no job. He will put in net the goaltender he feels who gives him the best chance to win. Nothing more. Getting Ortio development time in a game situation on NHL ice should be the last thing he considers in his thinking. So about that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 He might. Just having that solid presence behind our D might give them enough confidence to perform better. I think a lack of confidence is one of the bigger issues with our D right now. First we need our coach to show some consistency in the defensive pairings so they can gain the consistency to play well together. Confidence comes from first playing well yourself, then playing very well with your partner or line mates, only then will you have confidence as a unit. I think they created a bad situation for themselves when they signed back Ramo. If you think Ortio is good enough not to lose then go with him. BT is living with a number of mistakes right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 http://flames.nhl.com/club/m_news.htm?id=787585 Flames have acquired Kevin Poulin for future considerations, and assigned him to Stockton. I wonder what that means for Gillies' injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Well we just acquired Kevin Poulin from TBL for Future Considerations. He has been assigned to Stockton. He was originally drafted by the NYI and claimed off waivers by TB. He is 25 years old and has played 50 games in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 http://flames.nhl.com/club/m_news.htm?id=787585 Flames have acquired Kevin Poulin for future considerations, and assigned him to Stockton. I wonder what that means for Gillies' injury. Gillies was skating, and is close to returning. This may mean the assignment of one of our starters. Hiller may be on the move or become waived.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=787569 ...for future considerations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tincup1 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Well, not the first goalie I'd chose from TB but Calgary needs the depth. Calgary doesn't have many healthy goalies right now...2 ? As for Poulin, what a great opportunity for him. The door is wide open to come in a steal an NHL job if he plays well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=787569 ...for future considerations. The Article also says Gillies sustained a lower body injury on Friday. First, Gillies sustains a concussion the first week after we cut him from training camp. Now he's out with a lower body injury to the extent we had to go out and trade for someone. That doesn't sound good. I see Gillies as our future #1 goalie and this has been a horrible season for him (hope it's nothing serious). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 The Article also says Gillies sustained a lower body injury on Friday. First, Gillies sustains a concussion the first week after we cut him from training camp. Now he's out with a lower body injury to the extent we had to go out and trade for someone. That doesn't sound good. I see Gillies as our future #1 goalie and this has been a horrible season for him (hope it's nothing serious). Im more wondering if the flames are making a trade and looking for some help in the AHL since neither ramo or hiller will be going back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Roger Millions (@RogMillions) tweeted at 9:33 AM on Thu, Nov 12, 2015: #Flames Asst. GM Brad Pascall says Kevin Poulin is an insurance move for AHL Stockton adding depth. Jon Gillies will be out for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omit555 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I'm with kehatch on this. And, at some point, the head coach has some responsibility towards Ortio's development, or lack thereof, as well. One could argue that wins are more important....that is, if wins were actually happening. I have a feelling changes are coming soon, though. Hope I'm right. Meanwhile, Jon Gillies is doing quite well in the AHL for his first year. Not well enough for a promotion yet, but definitely on scheudle or slightly ahead of schedule for his development. Last but not least, every few months or so I throw in Denis Godla's name. Time to do that again. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=106307 Scary good. Can't believe he's not drafted. So much talent. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=106307 Denis Godla is playing in my hometown team Kokkolan Hermes. Kokkolan Hermes plays in Mestis, second-highest hockey league in Finland. So I see him playing much and I just can't understand why he is undrafted! #OhMyGodla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Denis Godla is playing in my hometown team Kokkolan Hermes. Kokkolan Hermes plays in Mestis, second-highest hockey league in Finland. So I see him playing much and I just can't understand why he is undrafted! #OhMyGodla The Flames just acquired Poulin from TB, a goalie who will report to Stockton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 The Flames just acquired Poulin from TB, a goalie who will report to Stockton. Doesn't help the Flames right now, nor is that the intention. Gillies is still out (due to return soon), and his replacement has not been great. The Heat need as much help as the Flames do in nets. This begs the question, what about Hiller/Ramo/Ortio when all are healthy. Unless a trade is coming soon, a goalie has to go to the farm. Sending Ortio there makes little sense since the cap relief will not be enough and we will be close to the limit. Sending Hiller or Ramo would result in Simpson and Poulin being sent to the ECHL, assuming Gillies is healthy. That doesn't make a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Roger Millions (@RogMillions) tweeted at 9:33 AM on Thu, Nov 12, 2015: ......Jon Gillies will be out for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Doesn't help the Flames right now, nor is that the intention. Gillies is still out (due to return soon), and his replacement has not been great. The Heat need as much help as the Flames do in nets. This begs the question, what about Hiller/Ramo/Ortio when all are healthy. Unless a trade is coming soon, a goalie has to go to the farm. Sending Ortio there makes little sense since the cap relief will not be enough and we will be close to the limit. Sending Hiller or Ramo would result in Simpson and Poulin being sent to the ECHL, assuming Gillies is healthy. That doesn't make a lot of sense. NOw it actually sounds like Gilles is going to miss "a while" accoring to Pascall so IMO thats what this move is about. Hiller still a week - 10 days away from returning so even when he comes back and you have the 3 goalies again you still need someone for the next week to 10 days plus the depth going foward so Poulin makes sense. I do agree that how the Flames have managed their goaltending this year is very troubling and deserves to be questioned. I said it earlier in the season if Ortio isn't good enough to play for you right now, clearly he isn't, then I don't udnerstand why the club is so worried theyw ould lose him on waivers. I was never convinced he would be claimed on waivers anyway as I dont' think he has shown huge upside at the NHL level so I think when Hiller comes back it would make sense to send Ortio to the AHL and get him playing. I am assuming he will get at least one game this week so unless he slams the door keeping him in the NHL makes no sense to me. YOu can't blame everything on goaltending but IMO goaltending is the number 1 issue I have on this team because in the 15 games they have played this seson I would estimate they have gotten "good" goaltending in maybe 4 of those games. Yes there are other issues plaguing this team for sure but I don't understand the argument of well we need to fix everything else and then the goalies wil be good. Playing mistake free hockey is not realistic and if you need to play mistake free hockey in order for you goalie to be considered good then you don't have a good goalie to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 NOw it actually sounds like Gilles is going to miss "a while" accoring to Pascall so IMO thats what this move is about. Hiller still a week - 10 days away from returning so even when he comes back and you have the 3 goalies again you still need someone for the next week to 10 days plus the depth going foward so Poulin makes sense. I do agree that how the Flames have managed their goaltending this year is very troubling and deserves to be questioned. I said it earlier in the season if Ortio isn't good enough to play for you right now, clearly he isn't, then I don't udnerstand why the club is so worried theyw ould lose him on waivers. I was never convinced he would be claimed on waivers anyway as I dont' think he has shown huge upside at the NHL level so I think when Hiller comes back it would make sense to send Ortio to the AHL and get him playing. I am assuming he will get at least one game this week so unless he slams the door keeping him in the NHL makes no sense to me. YOu can't blame everything on goaltending but IMO goaltending is the number 1 issue I have on this team because in the 15 games they have played this seson I would estimate they have gotten "good" goaltending in maybe 4 of those games. Yes there are other issues plaguing this team for sure but I don't understand the argument of well we need to fix everything else and then the goalies wil be good. Playing mistake free hockey is not realistic and if you need to play mistake free hockey in order for you goalie to be considered good then you don't have a good goalie to begin with. When Hiller is back, we have the 3 goalie problem again. Send one down and we have 3 goalies there until Gillies is back. If that's a week or several months, the problem will still be there. And we still haven't solved the problem here. Poulin/Simpson is fine for now in the AHL. Hiller(or Ortio or Ramo)/Poulin is fine; Simpson goes to the ECHL. Whenever Gillies returns causes the problem. A trade is needed. I would be more incline to trade Hiller or Ramo to Toronto for Bernier. Both get a clean slate. Both have had sub-par starts to the season. Both are injured and likely to return soon. Add a piece to the trade to help offset the trade if required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 NOw it actually sounds like Gilles is going to miss "a while" accoring to Pascall so IMO thats what this move is about. Hiller still a week - 10 days away from returning so even when he comes back and you have the 3 goalies again you still need someone for the next week to 10 days plus the depth going foward so Poulin makes sense. I do agree that how the Flames have managed their goaltending this year is very troubling and deserves to be questioned. I said it earlier in the season if Ortio isn't good enough to play for you right now, clearly he isn't, then I don't udnerstand why the club is so worried theyw ould lose him on waivers. I was never convinced he would be claimed on waivers anyway as I dont' think he has shown huge upside at the NHL level so I think when Hiller comes back it would make sense to send Ortio to the AHL and get him playing. I am assuming he will get at least one game this week so unless he slams the door keeping him in the NHL makes no sense to me. YOu can't blame everything on goaltending but IMO goaltending is the number 1 issue I have on this team because in the 15 games they have played this seson I would estimate they have gotten "good" goaltending in maybe 4 of those games. Yes there are other issues plaguing this team for sure but I don't understand the argument of well we need to fix everything else and then the goalies wil be good. Playing mistake free hockey is not realistic and if you need to play mistake free hockey in order for you goalie to be considered good then you don't have a good goalie to begin with. I tend to agree with the 4 good goalie games to date. Assuming Ortio gets the game in Washington (Friday), we can project he is either stellar and stays up, or terrible which makes it even more unlikely he gets claimed so its a win-win regarding goalie issues. With Poulin now in Stockton perhaps after a few games there he could be a call-up if everything is still meh at best here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 When Hiller is back, we have the 3 goalie problem again. Send one down and we have 3 goalies there until Gillies is back. If that's a week or several months, the problem will still be there. And we still haven't solved the problem here. Poulin/Simpson is fine for now in the AHL. Hiller(or Ortio or Ramo)/Poulin is fine; Simpson goes to the ECHL. Whenever Gillies returns causes the problem. A trade is needed. I would be more incline to trade Hiller or Ramo to Toronto for Bernier. Both get a clean slate. Both have had sub-par starts to the season. Both are injured and likely to return soon. Add a piece to the trade to help offset the trade if required. With the way HIller/Ramo are playing right now I don't think either are tradable and certainly not for Bernier. I see no reason why the Leafs would give you Bernier who is signed for 2 more years for a pending UFA goalie playing worse then Bernier right now. I get you are saying "change of scenery" but it still makes no sense at all for the Leafs to do it. Its not a huge problem IMO. Sent Ortio down and until Gilles is healthy run Poulin-Ortio at AHL level Hiller/Ramo at NHL level, Simpson to ECHL. Sounds like Gilles is going to miss close to a month so gives you time to work out a trade or worst case scenario you carry 3 goalies at the AHL level which i don't see as a problem given there really is no NHL future for Poulin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 With the way HIller/Ramo are playing right now I don't think either are tradable and certainly not for Bernier. I see no reason why the Leafs would give you Bernier who is signed for 2 more years for a pending UFA goalie playing worse then Bernier right now. I get you are saying "change of scenery" but it still makes no sense at all for the Leafs to do it. Its not a huge problem IMO. Sent Ortio down and until Gilles is healthy run Poulin-Ortio at AHL level Hiller/Ramo at NHL level, Simpson to ECHL. Sounds like Gilles is going to miss close to a month so gives you time to work out a trade or worst case scenario you carry 3 goalies at the AHL level which i don't see as a problem given there really is no NHL future for Poulin. From what I've read and heard I'm pretty sure we don't really know what we have in Poulin at this point, nor his potential to play effectively in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 When Hiller is back, we have the 3 goalie problem again. Send one down and we have 3 goalies there until Gillies is back. If that's a week or several months, the problem will still be there. And we still haven't solved the problem here. Poulin/Simpson is fine for now in the AHL. Hiller(or Ortio or Ramo)/Poulin is fine; Simpson goes to the ECHL. Whenever Gillies returns causes the problem. A trade is needed. I would be more incline to trade Hiller or Ramo to Toronto for Bernier. Both get a clean slate. Both have had sub-par starts to the season. Both are injured and likely to return soon. Add a piece to the trade to help offset the trade if required. Acquiring Poulin could also be insurance once they put Ortio on waivers. If he gets claimed you have Poulin who can take his spot on the depth chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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