Goaltending

[MAC331]

Fix the team out front and I think the goaltending goes with it

[cccsberg]

That's true.

 

Among the top 65 NHL goalies, Ramo's current stats are:

 

Wins - 2 = 47th 

GA - 21 = 47th

GAA - 3.80 = 61st

SV% - .885 = 61st

2-3 more games like Thursday and he'll be moving up fast.

[420since1974]

What's sad to me is that Ramo is currently the best of a bad bunch on the Flames.

 

IMO, Hiller (injured) is/was the closest to being an actual #1 NHL goalie, but he's not played like one for the Flames.

 

I have little faith in Orito's style of play and especially his durability (he has a long history of injuries).

He didn't play more than 9 professional games in a season until 2012/2013, when he played on 4 teams in 4 leagues (SM Iiiga, ECHL, AHL, & NHL).

Only 146 games over 7 seasons, he's just not experienced enough to play regularly in the NHL.

If not for the 5 games when he played well in the NHL last season (the 6th he got bombed), he probably would have started this season in Stockton.

Those same 5 games have made it risky to attempt passing him through waivers.

I think the Flames will be fortunate if he manages to top out as a NHL back-up.

That said, he's only 24, so there's still a few years yet to see what he can become.

[cccsberg]

What's sad to me is that Ramo is currently the best of a bad bunch on the Flames.

 

IMO, Hiller (injured) is/was the closest to being an actual #1 NHL goalie, but he's not played like one for the Flames.

 

I have little faith in Orito's style of play and especially his durability (he has a long history of injuries).

He didn't play more than 9 professional games in a season until 2012/2013, when he played on 4 teams in 4 leagues (SM Iiiga, ECHL, AHL, & NHL).

Only 146 games over 7 seasons, he's just not experienced enough to play regularly in the NHL.

If not for the 5 games when he played well in the NHL last season (the 6th he got bombed), he probably would have started this season in Stockton.

Those same 5 games have made it risky to attempt passing him through waivers.

I think the Flames will be fortunate if he manages to top out as a NHL back-up.

That said, he's only 24, so there's still a few years yet to see what he can become.

Ortio carried the Adirondack team last year, was an AHL All-Star and was looking at play-offs there until he got injured.  After which the team went in the tank and missed the play-offs.  Although he started slow last year he more than made up for it and did great during his call-up.  The game he lost was in Anaheim where the team hasn't won in like, many, many years.

[tincup1]

Second game in a row that Ramo played well.  He made a few big saves and looked more calm back there IMO.  The entire team looks like they're finding their game which I'm sure helps the goalie.  Tough roadie coming up though...Ortio should get another chance on the back to back.

[tmac70]

Ramo had a good night, made some keys saves similar to last year, team in front was 100% better as well. The 2nd goal was iMHO a bad goal. You could see it in really time but really obvious in slow motion, how he cheats off the post. The only threat on that player was the shooter. He does that to much for my liking.

[cross16]

I thought both goals last night by Ramo were bad goals, but to his credit he did make a few very key saves. With the way the season has gone you had to feel nervous about the 3rd period, at least I did, especially when get got hat PP and I thought Ramo did a really nice job to slam that door and keep it a 2 goal lead, with some of those saves needing to be of the very good variety. So not perfect and not that great a performance overal but good enough I guess.

[420since1974]

High marks to Ramo for last night's performance.

 

He smothered most shots, didn't give up many bad rebounds.

[gshesternik@yahoo.com]

Hopefully this is a sign Ramo is getting his game in order.  Let's see what the road trip brings and if Ramo can secure the #1 position.

[MAC331]

I thought both goals last night by Ramo were bad goals, but to his credit he did make a few very key saves. With the way the season has gone you had to feel nervous about the 3rd period, at least I did, especially when get got hat PP and I thought Ramo did a really nice job to slam that door and keep it a 2 goal lead, with some of those saves needing to be of the very good variety. So not perfect and not that great a performance overal but good enough I guess.

Agreed and hopefully he along with the team gain some much needed confidence.

[Wreckening]

I thought Rams had a hell of a game last night. Couple of questionable goals but man did he come up big when he had to. I think with Hartley saying that he was going to run with Ramo for a string of games has done wonders for his confidence. He knows there's no pressure, wondering if 1 bad goal is going to send him on a one way trip to the bench or minors.

[kehatch]

The Flames didn't have great goal tending last season. It was average. It was good enough.

That is what Ramo has been the last two games. Before that our goalies were terrible. We can win with good enough. Very few teams can win with terrible.

[jjgallow]

The Flames didn't have great goal tending last season. It was average. It was good enough.

That is what Ramo has been the last two games. Before that our goalies were terrible. We can win with good enough. Very few teams can win with terrible.

 

Well put.

[travel_dude]

The Flames didn't have great goal tending last season. It was average. It was good enough.

That is what Ramo has been the last two games. Before that our goalies were terrible. We can win with good enough. Very few teams can win with terrible.

 

Early season struggles to score combined with below average goaltending = losing record.  

Able to score 4+ goals combined with below average goaltending = .500 hockey at best

Struggle to score combine with average goaltending = .500 hockey

Able to score 4+ goals with league average goaltending >>>.500 hockey.

 

Those are just broad statements.  The last 2 wins fall into the last two categories.  

[cross16]

The Flames didn't have great goal tending last season. It was average. It was good enough.

That is what Ramo has been the last two games. Before that our goalies were terrible. We can win with good enough. Very few teams can win with terrible.

 

Overal I agree, althought I would argue for the first month or two of last season they did did great goaltending but for the rest of the season you are right it was never better then average. I point that out becuase the team itself didn't play great for the first month last season either but the fact they got great goaltending I think allowed them to find themselves more effectively than this season. Really, really tough to get going when every mistake you make winds up in your net and thats how I've felt watching them the last month.

 

I do think the Flames are good enough to win a fair share of their games so long as they get Avg or better goaltending. I don't think they need Great goaltending they just need avg or better and they should be able to right the ship. Having said that, it's a huge question mark for them going forward and into the playoffs should they get there. I was pretty adament before this season that they didn't have their "answer" in net and now I think its clear to everyone that between Ortio, Ramo, HIller they don't have their answer. Yes, maybe it is Gilles but I think even thinking optimistically Gilles isn't going to be a potential "answer" for at least 2 more seasons. I think the Flames need to aggresivly be in the goalie market.

[travel_dude]

Overal I agree, althought I would argue for the first month or two of last season they did did great goaltending but for the rest of the season you are right it was never better then average. I point that out becuase the team itself didn't play great for the first month last season either but the fact they got great goaltending I think allowed them to find themselves more effectively than this season. Really, really tough to get going when every mistake you make winds up in your net and thats how I've felt watching them the last month.

 

I do think the Flames are good enough to win a fair share of their games so long as they get Avg or better goaltending. I don't think they need Great goaltending they just need avg or better and they should be able to right the ship. Having said that, it's a huge question mark for them going forward and into the playoffs should they get there. I was pretty adament before this season that they didn't have their "answer" in net and now I think its clear to everyone that between Ortio, Ramo, HIller they don't have their answer. Yes, maybe it is Gilles but I think even thinking optimistically Gilles isn't going to be a potential "answer" for at least 2 more seasons. I think the Flames need to aggresivly be in the goalie market.

 

The worse thing that could happen would be Hiller coming back and getting starts right away, only to be as bad as he has already been.  As soon as he is ready, he needs to go to the AHL for conditioning.  

 

They are likely going to run Ramo for as long as they can right now.  They have to do it to establish his value in a trade and to try to get consistent effort out of a goalie.  At some point Ortio will get his next start, and perhaps he can get a win or two.  Not holding my breath, but the team has played better in front of Ramo (with Brodie return).  This week has a B2B in Tampa then Washington.

Ramo gave up 4 goals in the loss to Washington, so maybe that is the game to put in Ortio.  2nd night of a B2B, so maybe not a great time.

[darth_henning]

Ramo is finally performing around league average. At this point I'd ride him until he either gets blown out (probably about game 5 of his current run with his history), or a back to back.

 

Right now he's giving us a chance to win with a decent amount of scoring, so lets hope we can keep that up and make up some ground in the race. 

[JTech780]

Looks like Ramo is going again on Thursday vs Tampa. I was fine with Ramo playing the last 4 games, but now is the time to switch over to Ortio for a stretch.

[kehatch]

Looks like Ramo is going again on Thursday vs Tampa. I was fine with Ramo playing the last 4 games, but now is the time to switch over to Ortio for a stretch.

 

Based on the utilization it is clear that Hartley doesn't trust Ortio.  At all  He has done everything possible to avoid playing Ortio this season.  

[jjgallow]

Based on the utilization it is clear that Hartley doesn't trust Ortio.  At all  He has done everything possible to avoid playing Ortio this season.  

 

Over the next three games, it may not even be up to Hartley.

 

Back-to-backs with Tampa and Washington is pretty significant.  Whether he's scheduled or not, Ortio has a very good chance at playing in one or both of those games.  Sunday's Chicago game is no cakewalk either.

[DirtyDeeds]

Based on the utilization it is clear that Hartley doesn't trust Ortio.  At all  He has done everything possible to avoid playing Ortio this season.  

You make it sound like Hartley is supreme ruler and decides these things alone.

 

The reality is he sits down with all the coaches and they discuss it as a group including the goalie coach and assistants. It is a group decision and the lack of trust may be coming from someone else or multiple other coaches and not just Hartley.

 

The only thing you do have right, is looking at utilization there is definitely a lack of trust present, compared to both Hiller and Ramo. They have both been higher on the pecking order all season. They(coaches) are in a position to see the reasoning why, and we aren't.

[kehatch]

You make it sound like Hartley is supreme ruler and decides these things alone.

 

The reality is he sits down with all the coaches and they discuss it as a group including the goalie coach and assistants. It is a group decision and the lack of trust may be coming from someone else or multiple other coaches and not just Hartley.

 

The only thing you do have right, is looking at utilization there is definitely a lack of trust present, compared to both Hiller and Ramo. They have both been higher on the pecking order all season. They(coaches) are in a position to see the reasoning why, and we aren't.

 

Hartley is the head coach.  As far as making decisions on who plays he is the supreme ruler.  He may be listening to one of his guys, but he is accountable. 

[MAC331]

I don't think having Carey Price would help right now.

[jjgallow]

Hartley is the head coach.  As far as making decisions on who plays he is the supreme ruler.  He may be listening to one of his guys, but he is accountable. 

 

I'm with kehatch on this.   And, at some point, the head coach has some responsibility towards Ortio's development, or lack thereof, as well.   One could argue that wins are more important....that is, if wins were actually happening. 

 

I have a feelling changes are coming soon, though.  Hope I'm right.

 

Meanwhile, Jon Gillies is doing quite well in the AHL for his first year.  Not well enough for  a promotion yet, but definitely on scheudle or slightly ahead of schedule for his development.

 

 

Last but not least, every few months or so I throw in Denis Godla's name.  Time to do that again.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=106307

 

Scary good.  Can't believe he's not drafted.  So much talent.

 

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=106307

[DirtyDeeds]

I don't think having Carey Price would help right now.

He might.

 

Just having that solid presence behind our D might give them enough confidence to perform better. I think a lack of confidence is one of the bigger issues with our D right now.