MAC331 Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Hiller carried the majority of the load & had the better #s. Why pay his backup more on a "show me" contract? Especially in a year when there are more 'tenders on the market than there is demand? We'd get little for Hiller & if Ramo checks the UFA market he'd be lucky to get 1/2 that 5 million given his lack of resume. & $5 million per is starters money for most in the league. So elaborate on that FA position due to the number of goalies on the market. Do you offer him a 2 year deal again at 3.5M ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Mark Easson (@myNHLTradeRumor) tweeted at 11:01 AM on Tue, Jun 23, 2015: Dreger saying two 2nd round picks for Cam Talbot didn't get a deal done. Hopefully we are staying away from Talbot and hopefully we weren't the team to make that offer. That is an over payment for a guy with 57 NHL games under his belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamesLogic Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 BT and Ramo's agent are negotiating. That leads me to believe they don't have faith in Ortio or Hiller. Ramo won't get more than 3.5 in FA, as his body of work isn't enough to warrant any more. If Dubie gets a deal soon, there will more of a comparable (not that they are in the same league). No it just means that a) Hiller is done after this contract and Ortio has to play his way onto the team. The best use of assets would be to resign Ramo to a market deal, deal Hiller at deadline to anyone that needs a vet backup and then platoon Ramo and Ortio until Ramos contract is up. Then rinse repeat with Ortio and Gilles. Then Gilles and McDonald. Have the pipeline ready to stay one step ahead of the realities of the NHL market. If a part of the pipeline looks like it may not pan out then replace it. The reason the flames needed to go out and get Ramo and Hiller was because Kipper had been an undisputed #1 for so long and the team didnt do a good job in spending a pick to keep the pipeline strong. Those second rounders Sutter kept spending on old vets could of been better used on keeping the pipeline stocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Darren Dreger (@DarrenDreger) tweeted at 8:15 AM on Fri, Jun 26, 2015: NYR are meeting now. Flames are pushing hard for Talbot. Oilers, Stars and Sharks still in mix. Two 2nds plus get it done? Please Edmonton step up and overpay for Talbot...so we don't make that mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Darren Dreger (@DarrenDreger) tweeted at 8:15 AM on Fri, Jun 26, 2015: NYR are meeting now. Flames are pushing hard for Talbot. Oilers, Stars and Sharks still in mix. Two 2nds plus get it done? Please Edmonton step up and overpay for Talbot...so we don't make that mistake. I wouldn't believe anything Dreger comes up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I wouldn't believe anything Dreger comes up with. He is one of the most respected hockey "insiders" out there, I have no reason to not believe what he is saying. If you don't trust Dreger do you believe McKenzie. Bob McKenzie (@TSNBobMcKenzie) tweeted at 8:29 AM on Fri, Jun 26, 2015: NYR have offer(s) of two second-round picks for Cam Talbot. Waiting to see if they can increase that yield. CGY, EDM, DAL amongst suitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I really hope that's not the Flames either. 2 2nd round picks is too much for a backup goalie who at soon to be 28 years old has limited "long term" potential anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCP_STEVIEG Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I don't get it... Going after Talbot or Martin Jones probably indicates that Ramo is done with the Flames. But at the same time we have NHL - Hiller, OrtioAHL - Gillies, _____ How do either of them fit in? The only way that would work is to trade Hiller. But is Jones or Talbot an improvement over Hiller? Was really hoping we would actually use all three 2nd rounders, preferably drafting dmen. Flames should know very well what happens when a team gives up two 2nd rounders for an unproven player (Tim Erixon). Talbot is unproven as a starter, the most he has ever played is 36 games in a season. He was 21-9-4 with 5 SO's but any goalies stats would look good playing behind McDonagh and Girardi. So....Tree, please don't do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamesLogic Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I don't get Talbot or Jones. They are both goalies that play for teams that focus on defense. It boosts their stats as a result. If I was giving up two seconds for a goalies it needs to be a guy like Bernier who at 26 is likely just hitting his stride and has higher overall potential. My only worry is that Toronto has ruined him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 He is one of the most respected hockey "insiders" out there, I have no reason to not believe what he is saying. If you don't trust Dreger do you believe McKenzie. Bob McKenzie (@TSNBobMcKenzie) tweeted at 8:29 AM on Fri, Jun 26, 2015: NYR have offer(s) of two second-round picks for Cam Talbot. Waiting to see if they can increase that yield. CGY, EDM, DAL amongst suitors. Honestly I believe these guys are aware of teams perceived needs and put them into all their spin scenerios to create hype and stories. They are also aware of which teams have the most ammunition to do deals which provides the materials to spin even more. I don't get Talbot or Jones. They are both goalies that play for teams that focus on defense. It boosts their stats as a result. If I was giving up two seconds for a goalies it needs to be a guy like Bernier who at 26 is likely just hitting his stride and has higher overall potential. My only worry is that Toronto has ruined him. Edmonton didn't ruin Dubnyk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I like the idea of adding a goalie option, especially when it looks pretty clear that Ramo is moving on, but not for 2 2nds. I like the idea of someone like Michael Neuvrith in FA or Martin Jones via trade, pending asking price isnt' too crazy, someone who can come in here and compete for a job but not necessarily carry the goalie of the future title. I think the Flames have the goalie of their future in one of Ortio, Gilles, Macdonald but its not just clear which one of those it is yet. With Hiller having only 1 year on his deal and the fact that I don't think he even played that great last year I think it makes sense to solidify goaltending futher. Especially when you have no guarantees Ortio is even ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I like the idea of adding a goalie option, especially when it looks pretty clear that Ramo is moving on, but not for 2 2nds. I like the idea of someone like Michael Neuvrith in FA or Martin Jones via trade, pending asking price isnt' too crazy, someone who can come in here and compete for a job but not necessarily carry the goalie of the future title. I think the Flames have the goalie of their future in one of Ortio, Gilles, Macdonald but its not just clear which one of those it is yet. With Hiller having only 1 year on his deal and the fact that I don't think he even played that great last year I think it makes sense to solidify goaltending futher. Especially when you have no guarantees Ortio is even ready. Who knows, there seems to be plenty of options for goalies. Ramo's agent may go out their and find Calgary is as good as any place to be. Like you I don't see blowing off 2 - 2nd round draft picks as smart and I think BT is a smart GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamesLogic Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Who knows, there seems to be plenty of options for goalies. Ramo's agent may go out their and find Calgary is as good as any place to be. Like you I don't see blowing off 2 - 2nd round draft picks as smart and I think BT is a smart GM. Right the only reason you spend draft picks for a goalie is if there is a potential and many years of service available. You don't spend it to get a guy that is likely similar to Ramo. Most likely case is Ramo comes back, he just wants to get an idea of fair market value first. Fact is there is multiple goalies of similar caliber available in UFA. Guys that are likely not true # 1's but can handle the larger share of a platoon. The one thing working against the goalie UFA market is that there is only so many chairs for them. Once they get filled the offers start drying up quick. So I would expect a guy like Ramo to sign somewhere within first day or two and I would still put the Flames as the odds on favourite unless Treliving thinks he can get improved production from someone else, even if its not until years 2 or 3 when it starts to become more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Lehner went for salary and a first. Now apparently someone has offered a first rounder for Talbot (not the Flames). I am a fan of going after Lehner, Talbot, Jones, or Dubnyk. But not at those prices. If it costs us a second then sure. But right now goalies are going for WAY to much. So much for a buyers market! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I think that the possible destinations for Ramo signing as a possible starter, with more money on the table dried up in the weekend Goalie carousel. Before the draft I could have seen Buffalo, Edmonton dropping starters money on the table to sign him , now that they both have addressed their needs, outside of possibly San Jose, the odds of Ramo staying with Calgary on a likely 3.5M/yr deal just sky-rocketed. it also just massively increased the odds of Ortio clearing waivers if we choose to send him down . The only way Ramo leaves is if a) we inexplicably dont even offer him a contract or some team offers way more than we are willing to pay Outside of San Jose , no team is now in need of s starter, and those haven't anointed one yet , wont be throwing big money for a guy to compete for the job . Ramo has it good here, deserves a raise, but the net is his to continue to win .He doesnt want a guarantee, but He wont go anywhere he doesn't have the opportunity to win the starters job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I think $3.5 mill is still too high for Ramo. I would rather go after Neuvirth, I think he is the best goalie left on the UFA market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I think $3.5 mill is still too high for Ramo. I would rather go after Neuvirth, I think he is the best goalie left on the UFA market. If you can get him for 3.5, id be more inclined to trade Hiller, Sign Ramo . downside is your right he's about the best one on the market , but has never been a starter.. San jose is either trading for a Goalie, or will sign a UFA for too much money . Absolutely if we lose Ramo , id be all over this guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 If you can get him for 3.5, id be more inclined to trade Hiller, Sign Ramo . downside is your right he's about the best one on the market , but has never been a starter.. San jose is either trading for a Goalie, or will sign a UFA for too much money . Absolutely if we lose Ramo , id be all over this guy Wouldn't it be disappointing if Ramo went to SJS and became another Kipper for them. I would rather see that happen here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Wouldn't it be disappointing if Ramo went to SJS and became another Kipper for them. I would rather see that happen here. Yep. But Boston would be disappointed if Dougie Hamilton becomes Duncan Keith. Griffin Reinhart is 21 so can still turn into a top 2 for the Oilers. Kipper was 27 when he came to Calgary & is a Finn. Ramo is about the same age & nationality but your reasoning is a stretch. Gio was 26 before he started rounding into form so do you want to stock up on undrafted D, hold onto them for a few years of minor league duty, see them go KHL & hope they've grown into the next Gio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Goalies are voodoo. How many times have we seen a goalie change teams only to become elite. How about vise versa? Kipper himself was unpredictable from season to season. And especially from coach to coach. Chasing an elite goalie is futile IMO. Find someone in the right age range for the right price and roll the dice. Ramo has been merely decent. No point in repeating the exercise. Give Ortio a shot. Plus, if you can replace Hiller with another young guy you might as well take a shot at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I wonder if Minnesota is going to be looking at trading Darcy Kuemper. They have Devan Dubnyk as their number 1 and then they have to choose between Kuemper and Niklas Backstrom. Backstrom is signed to a 35+ contract, so if they buy him out his cap hit still counts against the cap. Kuemper is a 25 year goalie, with upside. Maybe a 3rd or a 4th for Kuemper makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 Goalies are voodoo. How many times have we seen a goalie change teams only to become elite. How about vise versa? Kipper himself was unpredictable from season to season. And especially from coach to coach. Chasing an elite goalie is futile IMO. Find someone in the right age range for the right price and roll the dice. Ramo has been merely decent. No point in repeating the exercise. Give Ortio a shot. Plus, if you can replace Hiller with another young guy you might as well take a shot at it. I disagree with your age comment as irrelevant. You don't have any measure of Ramo's heart and desire to be a top starter or remaim with the Flames. He certainly has the talent of any of these other mentions. I would stay with him and Hiller if something can be worked out. We are overpaying in other positions why not goal for a stable combination. If they don't I think they slide Ortio in with Hiller and call it a day. It has been quiet on the Ramo front so maybe a different direction is under way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I disagree with your age comment as irrelevant. You don't have any measure of Ramo's heart and desire to be a top starter or remaim with the Flames. He certainly has the talent of any of these other mentions. I would stay with him and Hiller if something can be worked out. We are overpaying in other positions why not goal for a stable combination. If they don't I think they slide Ortio in with Hiller and call it a day. It has been quiet on the Ramo front so maybe a different direction is under way. You lost me a little bit. I didn't say age is irrelevant. In fact, I think it is very relevant. I just don't see Ramo improving a bunch on the Flames. I could be wrong, but if the Flames agree with that then it makes sense they would look at other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 You lost me a little bit. I didn't say age is irrelevant. In fact, I think it is very relevant. I just don't see Ramo improving a bunch on the Flames. I could be wrong, but if the Flames agree with that then it makes sense they would look at other options. Maybe define "right age range" for me ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 What does Ramo look like with better D? We played a lot in our own end last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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