conundrumed Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 I realize IF we score more than our opponents, we'll win. But I'm struggling with the "ifs" that are important. I think my main one is, "if" Backlund can secure a top 6 spot and be consistently productive there, we'll be okay. There's lots of them, I'm just wondering if anyone else has "if" resolutions that they think will be a determining factor in our success this year. Because I've heard we have "too many 'ifs'"!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 My biggest "if" is if Hartley can re-invent the Flames, then the Flames can succeed. Second tier "ifs": - A true #1 Center emerges - the new guys gel together with the team - Bouwmeester third tier "ifs" - is the back-up even going to win us one game - will we get enough secondary scoring - will we prove to be tough enough with undersized forwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zirakzigil Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Biggest if is if the Flames can overachieve. I personly do not see them good enough to get into the playoffs without overachieving as a group or Kipper dragging them in with outstanding play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted January 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Biggest if is if the Flames can overachieve. I personly do not see them good enough to get into the playoffs without overachieving as a group or Kipper dragging them in with outstanding play. That's a lot of ifs! Can 1 or 2 players reach their "ifs" and give us a shot? I think we have to say Kiprusoff is a given. Cheaper and shorter season. YAAAAAAAYYYyyyy. But back to point, can Backlund and Cammi elevate alone to save us. Or is it part and portion to Stajan and Stempniak providing secondary scoring also. I guess I'm a little stuck on reading about our "good top 9" without really being able to buy in. Do all need career years to live up to that? If Hartley can turn the team, as peeps said, is a biggie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 My biggest "if" is if Hartley can re-invent the Flames, then the Flames can succeed. Second tier "ifs": - A true #1 Center emerges - the new guys gel together with the team - Bouwmeester third tier "ifs" - is the back-up even going to win us one game - will we get enough secondary scoring - will we prove to be tough enough with undersized forwards Do you really think any of our centers can emerge as a #1 Center? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted January 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Do you really think any of our centers can emerge as a #1 Center? Will it be necessary? If 2 #2's can emerge we can be alright, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Will it be necessary? If 2 #2's can emerge we can be alright, no? He used the phrase true #1 center. Not 2x #2 centers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 He used the phrase true #1 center. Not 2x #2 centers. sorry for asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada15 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I understand the need for a number one centre... Absolutely, it solidifies your team if you have a reliable #1 centre. I feel every team has "ifs". Its professional sports, there is no certainty. Especially, not in the NHL with a 48 game season. On the wing, we are talented as any team. Our defence has the potential to be reliable for us. Bouwmy needs to have a bounce back year. As for centre... Yes, of course, no clear, standout, #1 centre. I think the team can manage without though. Cammalleri Tanguay and Iginla were just fine as a first line to finish last season. Cammalleri WILL have a bounce back year. Not an 80+ pt caliber season but he will be productive. Whichever guy plays centre I'm sure will do just fine. I am not overly concerned about this line producing because I know they will to some degree. What I feel, personally, the Flames have lacked in the last several seasons was secondary scoring. Quite frankly, behind line one we generally have nothing in terms of scoring. Last few years some players became hot, but nothing was consistent. Baertschi, Glencross, Hudler, Stempniak, are more than likely our 2nd and 3rd line wingers. There is potential for some consistent production there. This skill will hopefully make Cervenka's transition to the NHL much easier. We need him to produce 2nd line centre numbers this season. This thread is based on 'ifs' so 'if' Cervenka doesn't produce, one of Stajan or Backlund will have to step in to that role. Same goes for 3rd line centre with Stajan, Backlund, Jones, Horak, and Street for that matter... I feel this team has enough depth bodies to hope 'if' one guy doesn't produce, the next guy gets a shot. All about 'Merit', which seems to be the Flames new philosophy... Point is, not all guys will produce what they should, and hopefully some will over-achieve. Barring health, I hope the Flames play the merit system and this should take care of the many 'ifs' this team has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Do you really think any of our centers can emerge as a #1 Center? No, i don't think any of our centers can emerge as a true #1 Center. Speaking in terms of "ifs", you're looking at Cammalleri at Center... Cervenka and Backlund... Horak jumping into the role from AHL... Hudler discovering something new... After that, you're left with Jones and Bouma who are career grinders... it "could" and is full of "what ifs"... but realistically, that's a lot of "ifs"... Cammalleri is a shooter and would benefit from leaving the defensive zone early on the attack. Centers have more defensive responsibility and need to stay back longer and be the first one to come back first. Centers see the ice more and pass more than shoot. Cammalleri is a "shoot first" kind of player. Plus, size offers a natural defensive advantage due to longer stick and strength in tight situations. Cammalleri is meant to be a winger. Backlund just doesn't score enough. Not to say he sucks because he could become a stud #2 Center. Cervanka is a huge question mark. Is he the next Fabian Bruunstrom/Jiri Dopita? "The best player not in the NHL"? Or is he actually going to stick as an NHLer? Horak... gets it done in the AHL but hasn't shown enough at the NHL level. but, what if? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 sorry for asking. Nah I didn't mean it that way. Peoples was pretty specific in his topic and the way he phrased it is all I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 No, i don't think any of our centers can emerge as a true #1 Center. Speaking in terms of "ifs", you're looking at Cammalleri at Center... Cervenka and Backlund... Horak jumping into the role from AHL... Hudler discovering something new... After that, you're left with Jones and Bouma who are career grinders... it "could" and is full of "what ifs"... but realistically, that's a lot of "ifs"... Cammalleri is a shooter and would benefit from leaving the defensive zone early on the attack. Centers have more defensive responsibility and need to stay back longer and be the first one to come back first. Centers see the ice more and pass more than shoot. Cammalleri is a "shoot first" kind of player. Plus, size offers a natural defensive advantage due to longer stick and strength in tight situations. Cammalleri is meant to be a winger. Backlund just doesn't score enough. Not to say he sucks because he could become a stud #2 Center. Cervanka is a huge question mark. Is he the next Fabian Bruunstrom/Jiri Dopita? "The best player not in the NHL"? Or is he actually going to stick as an NHLer? Horak... gets it done in the AHL but hasn't shown enough at the NHL level. but, what if? I think some of our converted wingers have the skills to hold down the #1C spot for short periods of time. If Cervenka is 60% the player that Feaster's sell job has been telling us then he may fit with the first line too. I kind of hope that is the case, they say he has the right motivation to. That would open up the Second line Center for Stajan and Backlund to compete for still leaving the 3-4 Centers pretty solid. It was just last season we all had hopes Backlund was going to be our #1 center for Iggy and Tangs. My have things changed for him due to an injury. Stajan showed a couple of weeks at #1 center and while a bit clumsy at it, still managed to put up decent numbers. As you say a lot of if's. Too many for all to happen, but we only need 1 "If" to come true and things won't look nearly so bad, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I feel every team has "ifs". Its professional sports, there is no certainty. Especially, not in the NHL with a 48 game season. On the wing, we are talented as any team. Our defence has the potential to be reliable for us. Bouwmy needs to have a bounce back year. Before J-Bo came to Calgary, he was known as an offensive defenceman. I really believe J-Bo hasn't sparked offensively in Calgary because of the Defense First system. With another offensive linemate in Wideman, and a puck moving system with Hartley, we could see a new offensive defender we have been waiting for. It would be nice to see some of the numbers J-Bo put up in Florida under Hartley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I think some of our converted wingers have the skills to hold down the #1C spot for short periods of time. If Cervenka is 60% the player that Feaster's sell job has been telling us then he may fit with the first line too. I kind of hope that is the case, they say he has the right motivation to. That would open up the Second line Center for Stajan and Backlund to compete for still leaving the 3-4 Centers pretty solid. It was just last season we all had hopes Backlund was going to be our #1 center for Iggy and Tangs. My have things changed for him due to an injury. Stajan showed a couple of weeks at #1 center and while a bit clumsy at it, still managed to put up decent numbers. As you say a lot of if's. Too many for all to happen, but we only need 1 "If" to come true and things won't look nearly so bad, "If" is a real dose of reality, and I think it's justified. If "if" doesn't work out, it's goodbye center trials....in 3 players. That won't help us at C in any way...it HAS to work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada15 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I also hope Jbo is able to produce more offensively than previous years. However, I feel his numbers in Florida could have been a definite over achievement (same with Jokinen). Wideman is an exciting signing but I don't feel he is the secret answer to Jbo's struggles. What Jbo should be focused on this year is his plus/minus number.. Yes, that includes defense and offense, clearly. Most importantly, his middle ice game has to be more efficient and consistent. We need him to be reliable. His passing has to be sharp for the breakout and with Hartley I'm hoping Jbo is given more oppurtunity to skate with it into offensive zone. Hopefully producing more offense off the rush. We know his point shot is worse than brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 "If" is a real dose of reality, and I think it's justified. If "if" doesn't work out, it's goodbye center trials....in 3 players. That won't help us at C in any way...it HAS to work out. You are right there. To answer your question about 2x #2C's. I don't see it any difference than last year where we billed Joker and Backlund as our top 2 Centers. Iggy even got on that bandwagon and told Backs he was going to get lots of points. When finding the #1 Center position has been as tough as it has shown to be for numerous teams, then you don't have much choice but to try a bunch of #2's and cross your fingers they find some chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada15 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I'm just this year we can partially make up for our 1C absence with some good secondary scoring and a healthy 2nd 3rd line. Something we haven't had in years is secondary scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I agree with the importance of a lot of the "if's" that have been presented... I'll add another one... "If" the Flames (including Iggy) can get off to a solid start for the season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
returnofthejets Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 It would be nice to see some of the numbers J-Bo put up in Florida under Hartley. Just thought I'd point out that Harley has never coached in Florida before. As for biggest if-...if there's no change in the teams mindset/attitude/philosophy/lockeroom atmosphere then it doesn't matter how many new peripheral players join the team and there being a new coach, that tense dark cloud will still be there and effect play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Just thought I'd point out that Harley has never coached in Florida before. As for biggest if-...if there's no change in the teams mindset/attitude/philosophy/lockeroom atmosphere then it doesn't matter how many new peripheral players join the team and there being a new coach, that tense dark cloud will still be there and effect play. Just thought I would point out, you've never read english before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeypriest Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I've always thought that our special teams, especially the pp, has cost us....If our special teams show significant improvement and we gain a few more shoot out points with added skill like Hudler and Baerstchi we could be losing in the first round of the playoffs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymo Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Just thought I would point out, you've never read english before. LOL. I think that was a deliberate misinterpretation of your flawed sentence meant in jest. A big if, for me, is if Kipper comes out rusty and stays rusty. We really need some solid goaltending to be competitive , and with questionable backup I am a bit concerned. Come on Kip, skip the off year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKscout Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Honestly the ONLY "if" the team has (and it's had for 7 years now) is IF they can change the culture of the team and bring in both a set of balls and some heart then this team can go far. The Flames ARE NOT a "Hard" team to play against The Flames ARE NOT dangerous when desperate The Flames ARE NOT difficult to come back against The Flames ARE NOT a team with significant home ice advantage. All of these things need to change to become a contender or a champion. I honestly think the skill level is there to pull it off but they need to change those things and to do that they need to grow a set and play for each other and the win all the time, every time. Hartley has a rep for a looser system (which Iggy wants so maybe Iggy will be in the game again finally) AND he also has a rep for playing those who perform highest not who get paid highest. IF he can maintain that and IF he can win over Iggy then we have a chance, maybe even a decent one if Kipper has a solid year. If he can't or if Iggy decided he'd rather continue the country club then we are just as screwed as we have been. The pieces are in place it's the attitude and culture that needs beefing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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