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Brent Sutter To Oils?


Louis23

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http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=396606

I hope this ends up being true. This would be very good news for us. Sutter sucks!(except Darryl, he rules!)

Man have you got that wrong. It would be terrible news for us.

Maybe you should have read some of the comments below and it might have woken you up from your dream world.

Like:

You know your franchise is in trouble, when a guy would rather coach in Edmonton than Calgary!

Don't worry there are lots of posters here who can't see past the hate and will agree with you, but Butter still has a stellar coaching record

7275138e3511076e4da94b909651f8ab.png?1337751527

and seeing him up north coaching the Oilers is about the last place I want to see him.

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It's easy to play with numbers. Butter never won a round. Butter's Canadian Team was eliminated by Slovakia. Butter miserably failed with the flames. Butter just sucks, it's not hate, it's reality. He couldn't get a team full of superstars to beat Slovakia and now he's good? Come on!

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It's easy to play with numbers. Butter never won a round. Butter's Canadian Team was eliminated by Slovakia. Butter miserably failed with the flames. Butter just sucks, it's not hate, it's reality. He couldn't get a team full of superstars to beat Slovakia and now he's good? Come on!

I didn't play with his numbers one bit. That is his record not some manipulated aberration.

You trying to tell me that you want the one person who has probably the best and in depth knowledge of our teams weaknesses coaching for our major rival? and you think that is a good thing?

Who's side are you on?

Edit: Trying to paint him as a terrible coach because of one recent loss only shows your lack of knowledge.

His international record until this tournament was near flawless. 19 wins and 1 tie. 0 losses.

4db5fa90ec98cb5f8d93f9218e54105d.png?1337821625

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I didn't play with his numbers one bit. That is his record not some manipulated aberration.

You trying to tell me that you want the one person who has probably the best and in depth knowledge of our teams weaknesses coaching for our major rival? and you think that is a good thing?

Who's side are you on?

Edit: Trying to paint him as a terrible coach because of one recent loss only shows your lack of knowledge.

His international record until this tournament was near flawless. 19 wins and 1 tie. 0 losses.

4db5fa90ec98cb5f8d93f9218e54105d.png?1337821625

I have, and will always say this : Brent Sutter is a junior coach. His perfect international record shows it again. Sutter is very good at sending the message, that's why he suceeds as a junior coach and fails as an NHL coach.

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Yeah, I'm not convinced Sutter is a good fit with the Oilers. From what I've heard he is a coach who thinks everybody should play a certain way. That might be a good style for short term tournaments but it might not be ideal when adapting a team throughout the season and the playoffs.

However, I do not think Sutter wanting to coach Edmonton is not good news for the Flames. He did not like the direction the Flames were heading so I would presume he would then think the Oilers are headed in a better direction. Sutter would also have intimate knowledge of several Flames players and the idiosyncrasies of playing in the Saddledome. Sutter being the Oilers head coach may not be good news to the Oilers but I don't think he would be good news for the Flames either.

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Im not worried if he wants to go coach there. Brent's an avg NHL coach but a good fit for that team. I think Brent can teach young people to be prus and I think he can get more out of guys that are fring nhlers but he just can't get the most out of everyone vi think he would make Edmonton better in the short term but they would eventually need to go a different route if they want to beca top team

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I have, and will always say this : Brent Sutter is a junior coach. His perfect international record shows it again. Sutter is very good at sending the message, that's why he suceeds as a junior coach and fails as an NHL coach.

Man have you got that wrong. It would be terrible news for us.

Maybe you should have read some of the comments below and it might have woken you up from your dream world.

Like:

Don't worry there are lots of posters here who can't see past the hate and will agree with you, but Butter still has a stellar coaching record

7275138e3511076e4da94b909651f8ab.png?1337751527

and seeing him up north coaching the Oilers is about the last place I want to see him.

Louis, those are NHL #s DD posted.

If you look @ his 5 years as an NHL coach the 2 years in NJ gave him a 97-58-11 record in 164 games. That's better then Lemaire (in 2 attempts), MacLean or Deboer managed during the regular season. Only DeBoer has taken them further in the playoffs.

His record in Calgary was 118-90-38.

Given the fact the Devils are largely the same team he coached (finished 2nd & then 1st in the Atlantic under his watch) & are now in the ECF & 1 win away from the SCF the quality of the players he had to work with seem to be the bigger factor.

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Im not worried if he wants to go coach there. Brent's an avg NHL coach but a good fit for that team. I think Brent can teach young people to be prus and I think he can get more out of guys that are fring nhlers but he just can't get the most out of everyone vi think he would make Edmonton better in the short term but they would eventually need to go a different route if they want to beca top team

I agree. Brent Sutter is too focused on his own team and fails to consider the competition and doesn't make appropriate adjustments. Good coaches need to tweak to suite the team they play against but Sutter is too hell bent on his team playing his way. He's too inflexible and is easily out coached. He's a "work hard don't work smart" kind of guy. It should make the Oilers play more consistently and challenge for the playoffs but it won't take the Oilers to the elite level.

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Yeah, I'm not convinced Sutter is a good fit with the Oilers. From what I've heard he is a coach who thinks everybody should play a certain way. That might be a good style for short term tournaments but it might not be ideal when adapting a team throughout the season and the playoffs.

However, I do not think Sutter wanting to coach Edmonton is not good news for the Flames. He did not like the direction the Flames were heading so I would presume he would then think the Oilers are headed in a better direction. Sutter would also have intimate knowledge of several Flames players and the idiosyncrasies of playing in the Saddledome. Sutter being the Oilers head coach may not be good news to the Oilers but I don't think he would be good news for the Flames either.

I also think Sutter is a mistake for the Oilers, if they were just a young team fine but they are a young team with several players who are more creatively gifted offensively speaking, that is not going to fit well in my view. Sutter does have his system, Sutter hockey, is Sutter hockey, you see the Kings doing it right now.

The issue is that it is hard to maintain that style over a full year and you also to have a team that is built that way. Sutter and good two-way players like Mike Richards and Jeff Carter go together like bread and butter. Kopitar as the highly skilled forward has adjusted to the style as well but it is an offensively stifling system. Young gifted offensive players are not going to produce under Sutter. Backlund is an example of a player who came with a list of skills like a great shot, soft hands and solid playmaking, it all disappeared and we ended up with a very defensively responsible Backlund who could no longer score.

I personally don't think the Sutter on the Oilers means bad news for the Flames because the roster is going to naturally turn over a lot this year. The Flames are also going to go in a new direction. Any kind of edge Sutter can give the team against the Flames is really moot. The Oilers should be passing the Flames next season with who ever is coach, if Sutter can't beat even beat the Flames next year though that will really bode badly for the future of the Oilers.

I agree. Brent Sutter is too focused on his own team and fails to consider the competition and doesn't make appropriate adjustments. Good coaches need to tweak to suite the team they play against but Sutter is too hell bent on his team playing his way. He's too inflexible and is easily out coached. He's a "work hard don't work smart" kind of guy. It should make the Oilers play more consistently and challenge for the playoffs but it won't take the Oilers to the elite level.

Absolutely, Sutter refuses to adjust anything for his teams composition, he just wants everyone playing the same way.

That to me is the big strike against him. Instead of sheltering Iginla to make more effective use of his skill set, he refused to. Instead of using Babchuk on the PP, he sat him in the press box. It was simply his way or the highway and although the young Oilers will probably be receptive to him at first, as the season wears down, if they are not winning they will quickly tire of it.

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I think there is a very good chance Butter ends up coaching the Oil next season...

I also agree that this does not spell doom for the Flames...

Hell, he didn't even seem to understand what the players strengths or weaknesses were, or what they were capable of, or what to do with it during the 3 years he was here... And I highly doubt the next coach is going to impart the Butter "system"... So I do not see him as a threat...

People seem to have forgotten, that a few weeks prior to his departure Butter said if he did stay, that he would approach things differently in terms of coaching... These are hardly the words of someone who does not think they will be staying on, it was more of an admission of fault in my mind, and it is a part of what makes me believe the parting of ways with the team was not as "mutual" as was presented... It was simply the Flames organization allowing someone to leave with dignity, as is usually the case...

If Butter is the next coach of the OIl, they can only hope that he does indeed learn from his mistakes and learns how to adapt his style... But I'll believe that if and when I see it... He most certainly failed to do that with Team Canada... If he continues with more of the same ol' "Butter system or bust" style of coaching, he will stifle the talent, creativity and potential that all of us as fans of the game know that team possesses with the quality of the young guns on their roster...

If the OIl manages to add some solid defense and an elite goaltender this off season, that would make them far more dangerous in my opinion than anything Butter could bring to that team...

Cross summed it up quite nicely... Butter could help make Edmonton a better team for the short term... But they would need to go a different route with coaching in order to become a top team in the league...

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Man have you got that wrong. It would be terrible news for us.

Maybe you should have read some of the comments below and it might have woken you up from your dream world.

Like:

Don't worry there are lots of posters here who can't see past the hate and will agree with you, but Butter still has a stellar coaching record

7275138e3511076e4da94b909651f8ab.png?1337751527

and seeing him up north coaching the Oilers is about the last place I want to see him.

Stellar coaching record? That's pure hyperbole.

Look beyond the numbers. Look at the dive his Jr team took after his first couple yrs.

He did nothing to boost the Devils from where they were before he got there to after, and then came to the flames and again... did not manage to improve anything from the prior era.

Of course it can't be all on him... personnel has a lot to do with it. But at the end of the day there is A LOT more info to suggest he's a mediocre Jr. and NHL coach than he is 'stellar'.

Tournament Coaching:

Team Canada Jrs... his success at that level can't be denied. Obviously his coaching style was effective over the duration of a few 2-week periods with Jr players from one of the premier nations in the world.

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Stellar coaching record? That's pure hyperbole.

Look beyond the numbers. Look at the dive his Jr team took after his first couple yrs.

He did nothing to boost the Devils from where they were before he got there to after, and then came to the flames and again... did not manage to improve anything from the prior era.

Of course it can't be all on him... personnel has a lot to do with it. But at the end of the day there is A LOT more info to suggest he's a mediocre Jr. and NHL coach than he is 'stellar'.

Tournament Coaching:

Team Canada Jrs... his success at that level can't be denied. Obviously his coaching style was effective over the duration of a few 2-week periods with Jr players from one of the premier nations in the world.

There are only 8 active coaches with a better winning % than Butter, and his winning % is better than your teams coachs record. How come when your coach won 2 consecutive presidents cups, his % is still better?

Career is the right side stats

177f8d6604f7d5d394c37a61887465ad.png?1337922430

Brent Sutter - -

7275138e3511076e4da94b909651f8ab.png?1337751527

b20509e08c14eacaf473a130a140062b.png?1337922107

Doesn't look so mediocre anymore does he?

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There are only 8 active coaches with a better winning % than Butter, and his winning % is better than your teams coachs record. How come when your coach won 2 consecutive presidents cups, his % is still better?

...

Doesn't look so mediocre anymore does he?

Completely missed the point eh.

In NJ he inherited a 100+ pt, division winning, 1st round exit team.

He took over, lost the division the first yr with another 1st round exit.. and his 2nd yr he was back to a 100+ pt, division winning team, but another 1st round exit.

The organization remained staus quo. His record... obviously an outstanding 97-56-11, 0.591 win%.

Is that Sutter being a stellar coach? or just sailing a ship that was already going?

And then with Calgary... well... you know.

It's not about the numbers, it about what you do with product you have. Otherwise i guess its obvious McLennan is putting together a HHoF career as the best coach in the NHL, with Trotz, Torterella, and Ruff as the league's mediocre coaches.

Helps having Vezina winning goalies in net in NJ, and Kipper in Calgary...

As AV stated when he won the Jack Adams Award - it's easy being a good coach when you have Luongo in goal. Now switch Luongo for Brodeur or Kipper.

Like i said... hyperbole to say he's a 'Stellar' coach. And then on top of that you support it with winning percentage?

On on a complete tangent with the following:

How come when your coach won 2 consecutive presidents cups, his % is still better?

0.634 win% with the Canucks.

266 gms with a much lower win% with Montreal from before he arrived.

AV: Only 3 coaches with a longer tenure with their present teams. Only 3 coaches with a better winning percentage with their current teams.(oops: missed Hitch.. 703% over his 69 gms)

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Completely missed the point eh.

In NJ he inherited a 100+ pt, division winning, 1st round exit team.

He took over, lost the division the first yr with another 1st round exit.. and his 2nd yr he was back to a 100+ pt, division winning team, but another 1st round exit.

The organization remained staus quo. His record... obviously an outstanding 97-56-11, 0.591 win%.

Is that Sutter being a stellar coach? or just sailing a ship that was already going?

And then with Calgary... well... you know.

It's not about the numbers, it about what you do with product you have. Otherwise i guess its obvious McLennan is putting together a HHoF career as the best coach in the NHL, with Trotz, Torterella, and Ruff as the league's mediocre coaches.

Helps having Vezina winning goalies in net in NJ, and Kipper in Calgary...

As AV stated when he won the Jack Adams Award - it's easy being a good coach when you have Luongo in goal. Now switch Luongo for Brodeur or Kipper.

Like i said... hyperbole to say he's a 'Stellar' coach. And then on top of that you support it with winning percentage?

On on a complete tangent with the following:

0.634 win% with the Canucks.

266 gms with a much lower win% with Montreal from before he arrived.

AV: Only 3 coaches with a longer tenure with their present teams. Only 3 coaches with a better winning percentage with their current teams.(oops: missed Hitch.. 703% over his 69 gms)

I see, you don't want to compare AV with 2 teams because his Avg is higher with just the Caunucks the stacked team(Goalie included) but you discredit my points of Butters record using NJ which you are also trying to point out is a stacked team.

You turn around and claim AVs avg is lower because of his time with a lesser team(Montreal) yet you then say Butter coached Calgary too a lesser team.... so his avg is lower only because he had Kipper in Calgary and AV didn't have a HoF goalie in Montreal?

Fine piece of arguing and shooting yourself in the foot there DL. My point being you are trying to say Butter isn't that good in one breath because he had a stacked team, yet in the next breath you say AV is that good because he is coaching the stacked Canucks? If he was that good he would have a higher overall win % with the crap team too. He missed the playoffs with his crap team twice and Butter 3 times.

What a homey......

Edit: As for the

Is that Sutter being a stellar coach? or just sailing a ship that was already going?
comment they haven't done any better since he left until this season(better playoffs) with any coach.

Last 5 years:

f4dd4ab0e38fb622e6c21c04ed8578e2.png?1337931537

Well, whatever team Sutter coaches next it will show his coaching worth.

I'm thinking soon as his contract expires here, he will be announced in Edmonton as the coach up there. Butter will just need a few days to buy a decent compass so he can figure south from north and put some decent winter tires on his car...lol or maybe the Oilers could spring for a GPS with voice directions for him.

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I see, you don't want to compare AV with 2 teams because his Avg is higher with just the Caunucks the stacked team(Goalie included) but you discredit my points of Butters record using NJ which you are also trying to point out is a stacked team.

You turn around and claim AVs avg is lower because of his time with a lesser team(Montreal) yet you then say Butter coached Calgary too a lesser team.... so his avg is lower only because he had Kipper in Calgary and AV didn't have a HoF goalie in Montreal?

Fine piece of arguing and shooting yourself in the foot there DL. My point being you are trying to say Butter isn't that good in one breath because he had a stacked team, yet in the next breath you say AV is that good because he is coaching the stacked Canucks? If he was that good he would have a higher overall win % with the crap team too. He missed the playoffs with his crap team twice and Butter 3 times.

What a homey......

Edit: As for the comment they haven't done any better since he left until this season(better playoffs) with any coach.

Last 5 years:

f4dd4ab0e38fb622e6c21c04ed8578e2.png?1337931537

I'm thinking soon as his contract expires here, he will be announced in Edmonton as the coach up there. Butter will just need a few days to buy a decent compass so he can figure south from north and put some decent winter tires on his car...lol or maybe the Oilers could spring for a GPS with voice directions for him.

OH. MY. GOD. Are you drinking?

Screw the AV argument.. ill just concede AV is a mediocre nothing coach. It has nothing to do with anything.. hence "tangent".

Way to completely miss the point... Again.

As for your edit... With that logic, Keenan was a genious considering what Flames did with Sutter after. Flawed logic.

Bottomline... Sutter failed at living up to his organization's expectations in both his NHL stops. Number mean nothing after that fact. Calling him a stellar coach is massive hyperbole. Unless you have any other metric you are basing your "opinion" on...

Homey? What are you 16?

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OH. MY. GOD. Are you drinking?

Screw the AV argument.. ill just concede AV is a mediocre nothing coach. It has nothing to do with anything.. hence "tangent".

Way to completely miss the point... Again.

As for your edit... With that logic, Keenan was a genious considering what Flames did with Sutter after. Flawed logic.

Bottomline... Sutter failed at living up to his organization's expectations in both his NHL stops. Number mean nothing after that fact. Calling him a stellar coach is massive hyperbole. Unless you have any other metric you are basing your "opinion" on...

Homey? What are you 16?

When you have to start of a post with something like "Are you drinking?" it only shows your argument is flawed or weak.

Suddenly AV doesn't fit your points very well and now you want to bring Keenan into it?

Keenan had 1 slightly better season here 98pts. Butter had one season with same points as Keenan 94pts but the difference being Keenan got into the playoffs with his 94 points and Butter didn't. Not sure why you would rate Keenans 94 points as any better than Butters? In the end I rate Keenans time here as better than Butters but only by a nose.(horse racing photo finish term)

No I am a semi-retired "old fart" not 16. Is this how you debate with insults? I'll gladly let them fly if that is the route you want to go...

What are you a kid blogger posting from your moms basement in your underwear? :lol:

Butter:

05ab6310a1dacf452749b05b1d9672ef.png?1337961279

Keenan:

051210a4f5993e2054b7cd6528ab5434.png?1337961791

At the end of the day DL all you have to judge a coach by is his win % and how many cups he won. When you consider coaches in Calgary neither Keenan or Butter, were able to get the Flames past the first round. The Flames have had 1 run past the 1st round in over 20 years and that was under Dutter.

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Sutter is a perfect coach for them. He will be there to help develop young players and there is no pressure to make the playoffs. That is the exact opposite of what was going on with the Flames. He has a great track record with younger players and I see that continuing if he goes to the Oil.

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DL: I completely agree with you.

DD: let me try and re-state what DL was saying in another way...

Prior to Butter, NJ had averaged 104 pts in the prior 2 years - Butter came in and averaged 102.5 pts (with - the point being - essentially the same team)

Prior to Butter, Calgary averaged 96 pts in the prior 2 years - Butter came in and averaged 91 pts and missed the playoffs all 3 years.

In neither instance did Butter improve the team. In fact, in Calgary, you could argue that the team regressed.

The point being that in neither case did he take the team higher. Therefore, attempting to argue that he is an above average coach is an uphill battle.

I would also point out that in his first year in Calgary, he had JBo, Regehr, Phaneuf, Giordano and Sarich on D, with Kipper in net. Arguably the best defense and goaltending combo in the league that year (certainly one of the top 5). And he didn't make the playoffs.

As for Butter going to Edmonton, I have no problem with it at all - I am all for it.

As to the comment that someone made earlier about the coach of our rivals knowing our team's weaknesses... all I can say to that is: whatever. Annual turnover for teams is typically about 7 or 8 players. By the time Edmonton and Calgary are both playoff contenders, there will only be a few players on either team from this years' rosters.

Plus, the way that Sutter completely ignores the opposition and simply tries to get his players to play his way, suggests that his knowing the Flames intimately is completely irrelevant.

My 'fear' of Sutter coaching the Oilers from a Flames fan perspective, on a scale of 1 to 10: zero

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DL: I completely agree with you.

DD: let me try and re-state what DL was saying in another way...

Don't bother he can put his own foot in his mouth...

Prior to Butter, NJ had averaged 104 pts in the prior 2 years - Butter came in and averaged 102.5 pts (with - the point being - essentially the same team)

Prior to Butter, Calgary averaged 96 pts in the prior 2 years - Butter came in and averaged 91 pts and missed the playoffs all 3 years.

In neither instance did Butter improve the team. In fact, in Calgary, you could argue that the team regressed.

Well if you are going to make that comparison you have to see who was coaching before and after right? I mean if Scotty Bowman was the coach before and you maintain a similar level then you must be really good right?? Butter followed Claude Julien and Lou Lamarello(Interm fill in)We already discussed Keenan here but does that make Claude Julien a crap coach then, because he took his new team to the Cup last year?

a5399c898e5dbd97e1c1612145af69bb.png?1337978136

The point being that in neither case did he take the team higher. Therefore, attempting to argue that he is an above average coach is an uphill battle.

Let be perfectly clear, If Butter was as terrible as some of you guys are saying then he would not have done as well in NJ.

I would also point out that in his first year in Calgary, he had JBo, Regehr, Phaneuf, Giordano and Sarich on D, with Kipper in net. Arguably the best defense and goaltending combo in the league that year (certainly one of the top 5). And he didn't make the playoffs.

The Kipper thing? You and everyone else here should be aware that that year with Kipper was one of his worst. They were booing him for a couple of weeks and we had a big discussion on whether he deserved to be booed. Ask Geo what Kippers season was like not last year but the tyear before. Next to last in the league. Now consider Butter did about the same as this year with Kipper and his almost identical year(points wise)

As for Butter going to Edmonton, I have no problem with it at all - I am all for it.

I don't like it, it gives them an advantage. Who in the NHL has a closer idea on the hockey club / players than Butter?

As to the comment that someone made earlier about the coach of our rivals knowing our team's weaknesses... all I can say to that is: whatever. Annual turnover for teams is typically about 7 or 8 players. By the time Edmonton and Calgary are both playoff contenders, there will only be a few players on either team from this years' rosters.

Not much forward thinking here. How about "if this only translates into 5 wins more for the Oilers(5 more losses Flames) and everything else stays the same we almost switch places in the standings.

Not quite but damn close.

16a69c9a2f7c6fc2ba643569e6084101.png?1337977692

Plus, the way that Sutter completely ignores the opposition and simply tries to get his players to play his way, suggests that his knowing the Flames intimately is completely irrelevant.

Team game. Every single coach has a system that they want the players to play "their way" trap, run and gun, you name it, if the coach doesn't preach the system the team will do squat. Butter doesn't ignore the opposition he just places a higher degree of importance on playing our(His)game not playing against the other teams system. You hear it all the time. We played their game, not ours, or we need to play our game and things will work out. I have heard the players/coaches say it a gazillion times.I guess they should be listening to you instead.

My 'fear' of Sutter coaching the Oilers from a Flames fan perspective, on a scale of 1 to 10: zero

I don't share your confidence.

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It doesn't much matter who coaches the Oilers @ this time. They have an impressive young group of forwards but too many holes to turn it around. Lowe (through his puppet) needs to make trades.

As others said, Brent's knowledge of last year's Flames means nothing. Players will move & a new coach means a different look also.

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I agree a coaches prior knowledge of a team is irrelevant. Chances are the Flames will have a new system and new methods next year so for me it's compeltley irrelevant what Sutter knows it will be of no advantage. Any good coach can spot weakness in a team through film study which is ironically something I thought Brent was poor at anyway.

He'll make the Oilers better no question but not enough that I would be worry or anything that the Flames can't deal with.

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Anyone else find this funny?

First Kevin Lowe comes out states he hasn't had any discussions with Sutter about the Oilers, nor has Sutter expressed any interest or has applied to be the Oliers next coach... http://www.630ched.com/Channels/Reg/OilersHeadlines/Story.aspx?ID=1708145

"I don't know. He hasn't officially applied to me."

"I don't see why he wouldn't want to coach the Edmonton Oilers, and he's a very worthwhile candidate, no question,"

And then Sutter comes out and states... http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/05/23/brent-sutter-plays-waiting-game

"I’m not making calls. That’s not to say I don’t have interest. I’m just not the personality to go around trying to get a job. I don’t have to coach in the NHL — it’s not something I have to do.”

Then today restates that the Oilers haven't approached or talked to him at all about the job...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=397219

"I know him really well. But I have not had one conversation with the Oilers. We never discussed this (coaching) once over there (Helsinki at the worlds). No contact with the Oilers since I've been home either. They may be interested, they may not. Kevin and Steve know where I'm at."

What your take on the situation?

Am i looking waaaay too much into it to be concluding that egos and pride on both sides appear way too massive?

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Am i looking waaaay too much into it to be concluding that egos and pride on both sides appear way too massive?

I think in this case you probably are. Most comments from people like this are a result of someone asking them a question and sticking a mic in their face.

(by the way, I believe he will be made their coach)

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