conundrumed Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 As per OTT v NYR 1st period. I agree with him, do you? Media-driven madness, I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastleMania Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I just can't see how luongo leaves the Canucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted April 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I just can't see how luongo leaves the Canucks. Due to contract? Or just people coming to their senses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I can't see how the nucks can keep both Luongo and Schneider... If I was making the call, I would try and unload Lou's contract on a team like Toronto and keep Schneider... Granted, the contract goes against everything Burke has stated he has stood against, but his back is against the wall in the goal tending department (as well as others), he has to make a strong change there... The nucks missed their big window last year... But their ousting by the Kings 4 - 1 this year in the first round as a 1st seed to the 8th seed Kings really showed their weakness in defense, as well as their failure to score enough goals to win... Even D Sedin says he and his brother have become too predictable... http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/04/26/canucks-daniel-sedin-says-he-and-henrik-became-too-predictable/ The nucks have other issues, and the fix will take money and cap room... Schneider is no dummy, and neither is his agent... He will be looking at a much higher dollar and secure contract than the nucks could reasonably afford if they wanted to keep both goaltenders... He will get it with the nucks, or he will get it elsewhere... Lou is not a bad goaltender, but as I have said for the last couple of years, I think Schneider is better... If they let him go, and keep Lou instead, I would be a happy man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastleMania Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Due to contract? Or just people coming to their senses? Due to contract. Luongo is still a decent goalie, but the risks inherent in that contract are just unreal. He's under contract for another 10 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I don't think Lou is traded. He wasn't the reason for the 1st round exit. Schneider brings a better return so they can fix the real problems. Lack can backup. If Gillis goes with Luongo it means AV is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I don't think Lou is traded. He wasn't the reason for the 1st round exit. Schneider brings a better return so they can fix the real problems. Lack can backup. If Gillis goes with Luongo it means AV is gone. I hope this happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Either he's done or AV is done. So in other words, he's done. Elimination game, they went with Schneider. You can't go back to Luongo and say, "sorry, get us back there again and we'll play you in net next time." They slapped Luongo in the face when it wasn't even his fault the team was down 0-2. On the bright side for the Canucks, they have manufactured a very good reason to move Luongo now, one that will work well with P.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Don Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Due to contract. Luongo is still a decent goalie, but the risks inherent in that contract are just unreal. He's under contract for another 10 years! Does it really matter how long the contract is? Not to mention the out clauses for both player and team, Luongo will play as long as he is effective. When he retires (likely long before age 43) the contract comes completely off the books. The contract is pretty much until he retires. I don't think Lou is traded. He wasn't the reason for the 1st round exit. Schneider brings a better return so they can fix the real problems. Lack can backup. If Gillis goes with Luongo it means AV is gone. But having more cap space and flexibility, doesn't keeping Schneider over Luongo allow Gillis to address some things as well? I'd say return for Schneider is probably pretty equal to return for Luongo + cap space/flexibility. So having said that, you guy with the younger guy who the fans and media seem to actually not love to hate on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Elimination game, they went with Schneider. You can't go back to Luongo and say, "sorry, get us back there again and we'll play you in net next time." They slapped Luongo in the face when it wasn't even his fault the team was down 0-2. This. Plus, there is simply too much water under the bridge now. There is no way Gillis can go to the fan base and say 'we believe in Luongo and we are going to keep him and trade Schneider' The first bad goal Luo let in would cause bedlam. Plus, it seems pretty clear to me that Luongo doesn't want to be there anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Not to mention the out clauses for both player and team there are no out clauses in the CBA But having more cap space and flexibility, doesn't keeping Schneider over Luongo allow Gillis to address some things as well? I think Schneider's cap hit is going to be pretty similar to Luo's I'd say return for Schneider is probably pretty equal to return for Luongo + cap space/flexibility. good luck with that... Luo won't return a great deal - decent, but not great - and there won't be any cap space savings of any consequence Currently: $5.3 + $.9 Schneider and Lack: $4.5 to 5 + $1 to 1.5 (as an RFA, Lack is in a great bargaining position now too as he knows he is getting a promotion - either that or the Nucks have to go to market to get a backup which wouldn't be any cheaper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrefinedCrude Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Not to mention the out clauses for both player and team, Canucks fans always mention this, but it is only as real as their championships. These so called clauses would be illegal under the CBA. THE GLOBE & MAIL: David Shoalts provides more information on Luongo’s so-called “out clause”. “The only thing related to an out in Luongo’s contract is a modified no-trade clause. Within 48 hours of his team’s last game of the 2013-14 season, Luongo can provide his team with a list of five teams to which he would approve a trade. The trade would have to be done between July 1 and July 15 or by the end of the 15th day after the free-agent period opens. In 2018, if Luongo does not provide a five-team list within 48 hours after the last game of the 2017-18 season, his team can trade him to anyone prior to Sept. 1, 2018.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 There is no way Gillis can go to the fan base and say 'we believe in Luongo and we are going to keep him and trade Schneider' Exactly man. Clearly through actions alone, they did NOT believe in Luongo as much as they believe in Schneider. Plus, Schneider outplayed Luongo in his 3 starts despite a great effort by Luongo. You can't go to the fanbase and tell them you kept the 2nd best. Goaltending is the most important position on a team. You got to go with THE best. Keeping Luongo over Schneider is a fatal mistake that i hope the Canucks make but i would advise against based on objectivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame111 Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I'd say return for Schneider is probably pretty equal to return for Luongo + cap space/flexibility. So having said that, you guy with the younger guy who the fans and media seem to actually not love to hate on. Luo being run out of town like that was very low-class. The Canucks will not get much for Luo, it will be shockingly low due to his contract but they won't care because the extra cap space as you point out and flexibility it brings is a whole other dimension. I said years ago the Nucks would never win the Cup with Luo. Now if they can nail down a true elite D man with the extra cap AND Schneider continues to perform they will be a threat for a Cup. But I will LOL if Schneider starts to fold under the pressure. There is risk here for Van because he is far from proven yet. He is no Lundy or Kipper with hundreds of NHL games under his belt. He has only played 68 NHL games, 76 if you count the playoffs and I think all of us are acutely aware that is in no way a adequate test of his merit. So far he has looked great but stepping out from behind the shadow of Luo, a whole new dimension is going to hit him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAce Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Luo being run out of town like that was very low-class. The Canucks will not get much for Luo, it will be shockingly low due to his contract but they won't care because the extra cap space as you point out and flexibility it brings is a whole other dimension. I said years ago the Nucks would never win the Cup with Luo. Now if they can nail down a true elite D man with the extra cap AND Schneider continues to perform they will be a threat for a Cup. But I will LOL if Schneider starts to fold under the pressure. There is risk here for Van because he is far from proven yet. He is no Lundy or Kipper with hundreds of NHL games under his belt. He has only played 68 NHL games, 76 if you count the playoffs and I think all of us are acutely aware that is in no way a adequate test of his merit. So far he has looked great but stepping out from behind the shadow of Luo, a whole new dimension is going to hit him... Im curious as to why you say its low class how he is being run out of town ? Gillis has not asked him to waive his NTC and spoke in an interview that he'd like to keep both if possible. He gave Luongo 2 games in the playoffs and Vancouver lost both so they turned to Schnieder. Why not ? They wanted to see what they have in Cory and he played great. Any goalie can 'lose it' from year to year. Look at Bryzgalov, Fleury, Crawford, Miller, Vokoun this year. They all struggled despite how well they have played in the past. With a team like Vancouvers in front of him (one of the highest scoring teams) im sure he will fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsp393 Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 there gonna have to give up something big to move luongo imo. its gonna be like a kotalik times 10. theres no way they can keep him though so i think they need to find a team with lots of money who is desprate. but what does everyone honestly think the deal will be? my guess is luongo and a couple draft picks for some dead weight salary. or if they wanna dodge the fans then they could throw in a big player so they get something back along with a cap dump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 A ? for Canuck fans. If Luongo & Schneider were on a different team (same records, contracts & circumstance) & Vancouver were looking @ 1 or the other because they had crap in goal what would you see as fair to add either? Wipe the blubber off your lenses & try to approach this without a bias. The clones? Kesler? Pile of high picks? Used hockey tape? Remember, you want to add the player, not sell him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 A ? for Canuck fans. Sorry, but I just could not resist even though I admittedly am about as far as a nucks fan as could exist... But there is something "fishy" here... (Sorry again for the bad pun)... It is most likely that a trade of one of the two goaltenders will most likely happen... If I was the nucks, I would want to keep Schneider... Lou has already screwed any leverage that the nucks may think they possibly have had by blowing the facade of if there was even a choice between the two net minders... If he does not want out, he made a poor choice of words... Particularly as his statement about waiving was made so soon after the nucks demise... Schneider will be looking for a good contract, with the nucks, or elsewhere... And he will get it... Lou has a bad contract, and if some team chooses to take it on... It is arguably worse than any of the bad contracts Dutter left the Flames with... They will either pay the price to dump Lou, unless they find a sucker, which I doubt will happen... Or they will lose Schneider, which would make me a happy man... Either way, I still see it as a win... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Don Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 A ? for Canuck fans. If Luongo & Schneider were on a different team (same records, contracts & circumstance) & Vancouver were looking @ 1 or the other because they had crap in goal what would you see as fair to add either? Wipe the blubber off your lenses & try to approach this without a bias. The clones? Kesler? Pile of high picks? Used hockey tape? Remember, you want to add the player, not sell him. Going back a bit by I'll give it a crack. For either I'd give up anyone not named Sedin, Kesler or Edler. That leaves our top assets being: Booth Hamhuis Bieksa Burrows --------- Raymond Kassian Hansen Tanev Schroeder Rodin Connauton Lack I would probably trade any one player from the top group plus any one player from the bottom group for Schneider, and any one player from the list for Luongo. I would include any draft picks necessary as well. Let's say the best package I would offer would be: Hamhuis Raymond pick for Schneider pick or Booth pick for Luongo That last package probably being similar in value to Malone + pick/prospect for Luongo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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