Oilers

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

They still have the most points, and the best ROW between them and the Ducks. It doesn't matter in this point system whether we, or any other teams have more ROW when it comes to placement if they're not tied or have more points.

it is a moot point, while I agree, it might not serve them in the playoffs. It's just the system we are in and have to live with results as is. Right now they're in the div lead.

 

No it doesn't matter who has more ROW, unless it is tied.  Right now it gives them the division lead, but the point is that if SJS or we pick up wins and tie them, we would be ahead.  It's unlikely we overtake them, but it is possible that we or someone else ties them.  The other reason I pointed out the ROW is for WC placement.  NSH is behind us by 2 ROW.

[Pucksage]

After the OT goal by Melker Karlsson the "lady" gave it to him with both barrels of her finger

[CalgarySTL]

I had a great nights' sleep after that

[Cowtownguy]

Make it or break it for the oil tonight. If they lose tonight, this series is over in four, possibly five.

[Fowl]

Should the Flames advance, who would Flames fans rather see from a competitive point of view.  Flames vs Sharks, or Flames vs. Oilers.  I know the Battle of Alberta is near and dear, but which team do Flames fans see as more beatable?  Oilers or Sharks?  

[travel_dude]

17 minutes ago, Fowl said:

Should the Flames advance, who would Flames fans rather see from a competitive point of view.  Flames vs Sharks, or Flames vs. Oilers.  I know the Battle of Alberta is near and dear, but which team do Flames fans see as more beatable?  Oilers or Sharks?  

 

I have no interest in a BOA.  Save that for a few years down the road (if the Oilers are still good then).

Give me the Sharks every day.  One team the Flames can beat.  Tough draw in the 2nd round, but still a beatable team.

[Cowtownguy]

4 minutes ago, Fowl said:

Should the Flames advance, who would Flames fans rather see from a competitive point of view.  Flames vs Sharks, or Flames vs. Oilers.  I know the Battle of Alberta is near and dear, but which team do Flames fans see as more beatable?  Oilers or Sharks?  

I would rather we play the Oilers. As an older feller who really enjoyed the battle of Alberta back in the day, I would like younger folks to experience this. That sounds lame, but those were some seriously good times, I recall a number of really fun house parties where there were about an equal number of Flames and Oilers fans all wearing jerseys. The Oilers were the pre-madonnas while the Flames were the blue-collar types. 

 

San Jose is kind of an unknown, to me. Their success depends upon how much fuel is left in the tank of the older boys. They can field a team that lacks intensity and chokes when they are intense, or rise up and be amazing. Although they have been very successful in many regards for a long time, I think they are seriously underrated. As I said above, if they win tonight, Edmonton might as well hit up Golf Town. 

 

As an aside, I find some comparisons to the old Oilers-Flames battle and the current Ducks-Flames battle. In both cases, the Flames were burdened playing a superior competitor. As years past with the Oilers series, we kept getting better young folks and learned how to play them. I believe it is a matter of time before the same thing happens  today.

 

By the way, I think Kesler and Perry are total pieces of crap. I really like Getzlaf, Eaves, and Rakell.

[Fowl]

Getzlaf has really been a beast since returning from the 5-day break.  Perry is an $8-million third liner.  He never was a great skater, and his foot speed has dropped. He has shown some improvement in the last month, but still has underperformed.  Kesler is one to hate unless he's on your squad.  Ultra competitive, but his antics are designed to annoy the competition.  He clearly succeeds in that regard.  I disliked him when he was with the Canucks, but as a Duck he has been effective anchoring that Kesler, Silfverberg, Cogliano line shutdown line.

 

Rakkel is still learning and will get better.  Raks is better at the wing, since faceoffs have been a struggle for him at times. I hope our GM finds a way to keep Eaves around for 2017-18.

 

Hope my Ducks come out our top, and that said, I still see this going six or seven.  The Honda Center curse is getting more attention than it should.  I would prefer the Sharks in the next round versus the Oilers.  Ducks match up better, and the Sharks are a little dinged up already.  Tomorrow's game should be a dandy.

[Fowl]

Mega cheap shot by Drasaitl in playoff game 4 vs Sharks.  Hope he gets a game to go along with his Match penalty

[Cowtownguy]

San Jose decided to give Edmonton a smack tonight with a 7-0 win. San Jose is a weird team.

[travel_dude]

14 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

San Jose decided to give Edmonton a smack tonight with a 7-0 win. San Jose is a weird team.

 

It's why experience is valuable in the playoffs.  Skill can only take you so far.

Did the two shutouts wake the Sharks up or was Thorton at 100% the key?

You saw frustration settin in with the Oilers last night.

- Eberle trying his cutesy moves only to miss the net

- McDavid getting so angry that he starts x-checking a guy 3-4 times

- Draisaitl hitting a guy in Johnsonville

 

Speaking of Draisaitl. he will have a hearing today.  Could be a fine or suspension.  No history, but didn't Tkachuk get 2 games for an elbow?  Or does he get the Crosby justice?

[Flyerfan52]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's why experience is valuable in the playoffs.  Skill can only take you so far.

Did the two shutouts wake the Sharks up or was Thorton at 100% the key?

You saw frustration settin in with the Oilers last night.

- Eberle trying his cutesy moves only to miss the net

- McDavid getting so angry that he starts x-checking a guy 3-4 times

- Draisaitl hitting a guy in Johnsonville

 

Speaking of Draisaitl. he will have a hearing today.  Could be a fine or suspension.  No history, but didn't Tkachuk get 2 games for an elbow?  Or does he get the Crosby justice?

Maximum fine of $2,569.44 for Draisaitl.

 

Do we pass the hat to pay say Freddie Hamilton's fine if he uses the can opener on Kesler?

[jjgallow]

 

So.   The Oilers.

 

They're good.   They may win it all this year.  (I Really don't think they will)

 

The question is, does the organization deserve to win?

 

I say no.   And my reasons (to the surprise of FF), are because of tanking.    Also for holding the City of Edmonton on the tab for their new arena.

 

So the Oilers went through a rebuild - "Oil Change".     A well known phenomenon here which ruined the careers of many young players through poor management and coaching.  By rights, their first rebuild brought them enough picks (most of which they wasted) to build a dynasty in the game.

 

It was a failure, essentially because they didn't know what they were doing.

 

What I will give them, though, is the first rebuild was a legitimate rebuild (2006).    It wasn't management initiated, it was player initiated (or more specifically, player's wives initiated).   And with salary cap restraints, there really wasn't much management could do.   They had a one-hit wonder team that wanted legit dynasty money, and that's if management could convince them to stay at all.  Fair enough, rebuild it is.

 

Unfortunately, new ownership came in, along with new management, and we all witnessed the world's worst rebuild, ever.  From a scouting, management, coaching, salary cap, and player perspective.

 

Solution?     Simple.    Acquire Zero decent defencemen or goalies.  Basically from 2007 until 2016.  A 9-year span.  Not only that, but they didn't even Draft decent defencemen or goalies until the last few years of that span.

 

Result?   One of the worst droughts in NHL hockey history.   And, somehow (after numerous threats), a new arena.   But seriously, who can't find any decent defencemen or goalies for 9 years straight?  I mean, one year, ok.  Then you go solve that problem in the offseason.  9?  gross.

 

The point is, they purposely lost.  To keep their salaries down, to acquire McDavid, and to give Katz arena leverage.  They literally achieved a pipeline capable of creating  dynasty, and threw it all away, ruining many bright careers in the process.

 

The losing on purpose for 9 years straight when they already had Everything they needed in the first 3, is what puts me over the edge.   The amount of players who's careers were ruined due to poor development, doesn't help either.

 

 

Second point, Will they eventually win it all?

  

  I still don't think so, not with this crew.  One reason...they have a long way to go to correct the mistakes of the past:  

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/oilers

 

Next year, they have a big Draisaitl problem and supporting cast problem.  This will likely impede any improvement.

    The following year:  It's McDavid.  They're hooped.

 

At the end of the day, if the players don't dismantle this thing, their wives will.   There is still so much contractual residue, I still just don't see it.  Should the Flames pick up some of the players they can't sign?  Maybe.   Depends.

[Flyerfan52]

    ^^^

jj,
Kevin Lowe was GM of that 2006 team while MacTavish was coach. The same 2 guys responsible for the 10 year ongoing car wreck. They tried to remain competive for a while going as far as desperation moves like getting on their knees for Heatley & OSing Dustin Penner @ 10 times his ELC. They had alienated the players that deserted asap (some left skid marks) to the degree nobody would sign there unless the $s were much more than offered by other non-contenders. Even players traded for others that had no say in their destination breathed a sigh of relief.

Next step was suck bottom to draft talent that only had a choice of Edmonton or a Euro league. Even there they only succeeded in the 1st round as the plan was never to be a contender until they were  still bottom feeders when there was finally a can't miss player. Then the management faces were quickly changed to attract UFAs (albeit still on the overpayment required to land Lucic) & trading the best of the 4 faces they'd been assuring fans were finally the 1s that would bring glory during rebuild #3. Then the Oilers finally decided 1o years was enough suffering for their fans, Katz had strong-armed a sweetheart deal from the taxpayer reps, ticket prices  were maxed out so the only solution to upping the revenue was to try to win. The salaries were always near the max but Chia turned the same $s into a contender while the others were discouraged from having a winner.

But your revisionist history as you plead for bottoming out always makes me chuckle.

 

 

[jjgallow]

9 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

But your revisionist history as you plead for bottoming out always makes me chuckle.

 

What makes me chuckle, is that you almost said the exact same thing I did, but you thought you were saying something new

 

I do appreciate your hockey knowledge and your attention to detail on this stuff.  But on this you've missed the big picture and thus created your own revisionist history.  A practical one, I'll give you.  But short of the big picture.

 

Nowhere in your commentary did you mention that the Oilers were picking 6th overall in the draft as early as 2007, before any of the management or ownership changes.  And Heatley/Penner were essentially rebuilding attempts at their age then.   Maybe not the smartest, but I think it's difficult to pin Edmonton's signing issues solely on them. We both know that's been an issue for Edmonton since Gretzky left.

 

What you missed, is that the Oilers got a new owner at the very start of 2008.   You had all the details down right but nothing about the most significant change to the organization since Gretzky:   100% completely new ownership.   

 

Immediately followed by a new president, new GM, and new coach.   Yes, you are correct, some of these people were previously with the organisation.   It's not all "good people and bad people".  It's not that simple.    Some of these people brought the team to the cup finals. Sometimes, a good coach doesn't make a good GM, for instance.   Sometimes, a good coach makes a horrible GM.  

 

Like, you remember Darryl Sutter, right?           It's very problematic, calling coaches who get your team to the the final dance, and/or win the final dance for you...bad hockey people.

 

Sorry, but Katz doesn't come out of this squeaky clean.  Everything you described above, was done under his watch and due to his direct decisions.   And those people you hate, were doing their previous jobs much better than the jobs he threw them in.    Now, Katz is a smart man, obviously.   Which is a factor.  Because as far as I'm concerned, his moves were either Naive, or his moves were a deliberate tank at the highest level, coinciding with a threat to move the team, followed by a bunch of first round picks, a new arena, and a subsequent lottery win.

 

Long story short, completely new ownership and a change in every management position in the organisation, is ..you know, kind of a big thing to leave out of your explanation.   Even if you don't think it is.

 

p.s...and as you actually pointed out yourself, changing the management faces hasn't done a thing to fix the UFA problem.  That Lucic signing will be the death of them.  

[The_People1]

19 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

The question is, does the organization deserve to win?

 

I say no.   And my reasons (to the surprise of FF), are because of tanking.    Also for holding the City of Edmonton on the tab for their new arena.

 

This is a question of morals and of course they do not deserve to win based on morals.  They were dishonorable and abused a loophole in the system.

 

19 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Second point, Will they eventually win it all?

  

  I still don't think so, not with this crew.  

 

That said, don't hate the player hate the game. The NHL had previously decided the worst teams get to draft highest regardless of the genuine effort to win. Tanking doesn't mean automatic Cup win but thanks to tanking, the Oilers now have a better chance to win than teams who did not tank.

[travel_dude]

19 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Second point, Will they eventually win it all?

  

  I still don't think so, not with this crew.  One reason...they have a long way to go to correct the mistakes of the past:  

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/oilers

 

Next year, they have a big Draisaitl problem and supporting cast problem.  This will likely impede any improvement.

    The following year:  It's McDavid.  They're hooped.

 

At the end of the day, if the players don't dismantle this thing, their wives will.   There is still so much contractual residue, I still just don't see it.  Should the Flames pick up some of the players they can't sign?  Maybe.   Depends.

 

That's the thing about this team.  They are built to win it now.  Sure, Puljujarvi will come in eventually and be a sound player, maybe even a really good one (funny how he wasn't even part of the Black Aces).  The team is surviving on a string of luck and player playing above their respective heads.  Talbot is a good goalie and may have years ahead of him with that type of record, but he is getting shelled most nights.  McD is McD; he will mature and figure out how to win when you are being shadowed.  Draisaitl will be a force for some time, as long as they can afford him and McDavid.  Eberle, Nuge and Lucic will be the ones to drag this team down, salary and ability to play in the playoffs.

 

You have to wonder how the defense is going to measure up.  Klefbom and Larsson are good.  Sekera is ok to good.  After that, it's a dog's breakfast.  Russell probably gets an offer.  Nurse plays like Phaneuf; looking for the big hit or for the rush.

They traded Davidson just to avoid losing him.  Who's left?  

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

 Who's left?  

 

Their new mascot Hunter?  (if he stays)

[jjgallow]

On 01/05/2017 at 9:27 AM, The_People1 said:

 

This is a question of morals and of course they do not deserve to win based on morals.  They were dishonorable and abused a loophole in the system.

 

I agree with this, I think things were done far beyond a typical rebuild here.

 

In any case, I think there are some different definitions out there of tanking.   Whatever definition one goes with, there is a Big difference between basically ruining and injuring some of the game's most talented prospects, as opposed to taking some time to properly develop, and not rush, some fantastic prospects.  Both can have similar effects on a  team's standings, but only one of them do I morally object to.

 

I feel the Oilers did the former.   I feel the Flames were closer to the latter (for the most part).   Just not as close as I'd like, and with a lot of patchwork to basically "avoid" any extenuated pain.  I don't feel the Flames were morally obligated to do the patchwork, and I do personally think it will hurt them in the long run.

 

But I still just don't feel the Oilers organisation deserve success.  The fans, yes.  The organisation, no.   And given the state of their salary cap and past actions, I am a long way from believing they'll beat the odds.

[rocketdoctor]

Oh the whining about the Ducks goal and goalie interference.....

 

makes me smile

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, rocketdoctor said:

Oh the whining about the Ducks goal and goalie interference.....

 

makes me smile

Goalie interference they challenged, then had no challenge left for the offside goal and the icing goal.

My Oilers friends were texting me, "now we know how you guys feel", lol.

Hard to argue the goals were suspicious.

The one challenge rule is proving to be insufficient.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Goalie interference they challenged, then had no challenge left for the offside goal and the icing goal.

My Oilers friends were texting me, "now we know how you guys feel", lol.

Hard to argue the goals were suspicious.

The one challenge rule is proving to be insufficient.

 

I think the 1st one was marginal at best.  Seen those go either way dozens of times.

They probably should just have let it go.

Unless you need the break or are convinced, you should save the challenge.

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think the 1st one was marginal at best.  Seen those go either way dozens of times.

They probably should just have let it go.

Unless you need the break or are convinced, you should save the challenge.

 

I don't think they should even have to challenge the offsides. That's one where the officials need to get it right. Also, why should the league be able to call in and halt play when they think a goal is scored or should be disallowed. 

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I don't think they should even have to challenge the offsides. That's one where the officials need to get it right. Also, why should the league be able to call in and halt play when they think a goal is scored or should be disallowed. 

 

I think they need to eliminate the challenge on off-sides.  They don't ever seem conclusive, so why bother.

By the sounds of it, they want to add "delay of game" to the challenge reasons.

 

What bothers me about the whole thing is that they can't ever seem to have definitive proof to dispute the call on the ice.  Didn't in 2004.  Can't seem to tell what a high stick is, whether the goalie had the chance to make a save, etc.  Get rid of the stupid Ipads and just let the War Room decide.

 

The one area where I agree with the league blowing the horn is when a goal is scored and the goal judge misses it.  That one needs to be 100% correct.  I think they don't actually stop the play, just wait for the nest whistle. 

[AlbertaBoy12]

18 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Goalie interference they challenged, then had no challenge left for the offside goal and the icing goal.

My Oilers friends were texting me, "now we know how you guys feel", lol.

Hard to argue the goals were suspicious.

The one challenge rule is proving to be insufficient.

The offside goal was no different then the game where we had the stajan and bouma goals called off for offside. Im so tired of people complaing about that offside call, I get that technically its offside but those kind of challenge calls are ruining the spirit of the game. He was technically offside, but hes onside if his foot is on the ice, thats just a wasted call. I dont see the goaltender interference challenge as much different then any other one this season, they need to fix the rule because the way it is written right now its not helping. There has been way to many goals this season  where coaches arent sure about the interference and it shouldnt be that way.

 

The icing goal the oilers have no one to blame but themselves, you can complain all you want but you dont just quit on a play because you dont get a whistle thats ridiculous.