CheersMan

Is that wishful thinking or am I living in a parallel universe where it is 1-1 in the 2nd period tonight?

I’m pretty sure the Flames have said they have exhausted every avenue and are done negotiating with this council. They will continue to play in the Dome until a better offer comes their way. The only difference now is that Flames are free to entertain attractive propositions from other thriving cities in NA that want NHL action. This has turned into a competitive thing similar to the way cities are competing to land Amazon. Nenshi has lost the privilege of being the sole negotiator with the Flames, he needs to take a number and stand in line now. Now there’s leadership at its finest.

I thought we were talking about Smith, our MVP at the moment, but seems like skeletons are about to be tossed out of the closet. Halloween is approaching is in not?

Sorry robrob, I thought we were talking about the Flames attempt at filling the goaltender position. Tanking is a different topic, some teams tank for a year before getting a Matthews in a lottery. Other teams tank for 10 years before getting a McDavid in a lottery. Tanking isn’t what it used to be, now you have to tank then win the lottery to get the best young players at the draft. Yes we gave up some 2nd rounders for Elliott, Smith, Stone, Ham and Ham. Will never know what those 2nd round picks may have been. Today our goaltending and defense are solid because of those trades.

double post

In 2012 we took Gillies as 7th overall goalie in the 3rd round. In 2014 we took McDonald as the 1st overall goalie in the 2nd round. In 2016 we took Parsons as the 2nd overall goalie in the 2nd round. Technically, we should only be drafting goalies every 4 years because there is only so many spots for them in the system. Your arguments don’t hold water.

We have had an excellent battle going on in Stockton for the last 1 going on 2 years. Gillies was pegged as the next one, being the higher shiny pick and all, but Rittich has arguably been better. One of these guys isn’t going to be back next year. As for Smith, he has been doing it all for the Flames, so far, including leadership, puck handling, stopping the puck. I don’t see him dropping out of sight anytime soon either, his play has been deliberate in every area.

You can keep your eye on the kids while the rest of us watch elite goaltending provided by Smith on the big team. Maybe you can provide us with frequent updates from the farm, good and bad.

Couldn’t be happier about Smiths performance last night. Looking forward to seeing a lot more of that, but with less rubber directed at him.

Amazon is working thru an endless survey or questionnaire which tally’s up points in every conceivable area, including quality of life and doing business in all competing cities. The city that points the highest will ultimately get Amazon and their 50,000 jobs. When your bringing in that many people, one would think that entertainment will be a significant category on the survey. The Flames are the golden pieced in CSEC, the lesser pieces are the Hitmen, Roughnecks and Stampeders. The CSEC has made a commitment to the city by investing in and supporting all the major sports, call it a monopoly. The CSEC can afford to break even or even take a loss in the lesser pieces if the golden piece (Flames) is doing well. With the CSEC now contemplating their golden piece option, a move is not out of the question. If the golden piece moves you can expect the lesser pieces to be sold off as well. In this turmoil, you can kiss the entertainment points goodbye on the Amazon survey. The final nail in coffin for our hopes of landing Amazon would be suggesting that if their 50,000 people want to see the best of the best concerts they’ll have to head north on the QE2 and stay in a hotel. The race to land Amazon will by way too tight to finish poorly in any category. Our timelines are not aligning with Amazon, however, an approved project with a vision like CalgaryNext or similar could be the difference in landing them.

Thanks for the link Cross. I’ve heard various bits of information extracted from this report but never seen it. One thing that surprised me was the city’s estimate ($85-140M) depending on the approach for clean up. I think that was less than what the Flames estimated. It looks like the city operated in good faith right up until they talk about additional investigation, regulatory approvals and permitting taking 3-5 years on either approach. This is what I’m talking about when I say not looking at it seriously. One of the worst environmental disasters (Deepwater Horizon) contaminated the entire Gulf of Mexico. It was declared cleaned up within 4 years from the spill. Our city needs 5 years to get a permit in place and an additional 3 years to dig a hole for the expedited approach.

I’m looking at the $890 and how it solves our many issues. The cleanup is incidental to the construction of the facility. The CSEC has stated that they did do some research, they consulted a so-called expert in Minnesota who had a similar mess to clean up. I believe their number was estimated at $200-250M to clean up. Both these numbers ($890 & $250) especially the second one needs explored imo, not just discounted outright. Maybe it can’t be done for that, maybe it can, but I don’t think the city seriously considered it. I also think the cleanup should be assisted largely by the Feds, is anyone kicking the tires there? I’m not for providing a blank cheque but I feel unsatisfied that option 1 was seriously looked at to determine if viable.

NYR, MTL, TOR and CHI are all worth more than $1B each. A Trillion is a pretty big number, have no idea what the NHL business is truly worth.

The $890M for a multi-facility structure seems like a real number considering what it serves. The clean-up should be a 100% federal issue considering the creosote was used to treat ties to build a railway across the western provinces connecting Canada. The country has and continues to benefit greatly from the railway which was built at a time when the environment meant nothing to people. Wiki says the combined revenue for CN and CP is near $20B annually. If you want to run trains through AB, pay up for past damages caused by your business.

I believe the estimate was $890M, lets keep the numbers real to not scare the uninformed. Football, soccer, hockey, field-house, concerts, reclamation, Done.

In there lies the problem. Is it zero benefit or something much greater than that? Hard to negotiate a deal when people don’t have a clue what the product is worth or understand what the product(s) need. If one team is worth a Billion dollars then maybe the league is worth upwards of a Trillion. A city with 1/30th of a share in a Trillion dollar industry has no benefit? A Roll’s is hand crafted with parts made from the finest and rarest of materials used occasionally by a single person. CalgaryNext would be built by blue-collar tradesmen, using basic construction materials to provide a roof over the heads of every Calgarian who had an interest in participating in or viewing daily entertainment events which this city would host over the next 30-50 yrs. Three million people would likely pass thru its doors every year. That’s no job for a Corolla and we certainly don’t need a Roll’s. What we need is more like a Jeep/Suburban/Hummer…. CalgaryNext, a home town solution.

It’s over man, negotiations are done….or are they? It’s apparent our elected officials do not appreciate what we have. WE, citizens of Calgary were offered a GRAND DESIGN and VISION, providing solutions for ALL of our entertainment needs as well as RECLAMATION and development of prime DT waste-land in one fell swoop (CalgaryNext). The CalgaryNext vision was brilliant, exactly what the city needed to bring our aging or non existent facilities onto the worlds stage. Our incapable and elected officials failed to comprehend the vision and rejected it outright with little explanation. The City instead distracted CSEC by having them look at the opposite side of town while only considering 1/4-1/3 of the CSEC initial vision. The CSEC dumbed it down and entertained the City by providing numbers, real numbers, to an inferior product, ultimately calling it on the inept city bureaucracy. The City is focused on a stand alone arena in East Village. What is the City going to do when the Stamps immediately ask for separate assistance on a new stadium? Or the $260M fieldhouse? Or the eventual clean up on the west side? Where is all the cash ($0.75-1B) going to come from? Those future discussions should be equally as painful considering present discussions on arena have been terminated. What is the city’s financial plan for these three issues? There isn’t one, because the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. It’s apparent that our elected officials and some citizens do not appreciate what CSEC brings to this city. The CSEC have asked, “please tell us what the public benefit is to this City by having us here”? Nobody would answer that question. The CSEC answered their own question a few days ago because everyone else was afraid too or incapable of. The CSEC proposal’s outline many public benefits. If you look solely at the economic benefit it looks something like this. $481M x 35 yrs = $16.8B. Maybe the CSEC is over estimating and its closer to $10B. Maybe it’s accurate but with inflation over 35 yrs could push it closer to $20B. The CSEC proposes the City contribute $185-225M depending on A or B proposal. What is $185-225M when the end game is a continual and sustained economic public benefit over 35 years in the $10-20 BILLION range? I’m no economist but that looks like a Warren Buffett investment to me (rent and land taxes aside). The Flames have offered to pay near half in either proposal, both rejected. I’m not saying this team is anywhere near pulling up stakes and leaving town, but they just got a lot closer to it. For those who say “let them go”, you had better be careful with your ignorant bluff, it just might happen. I’m not saying the tax payer needs to foot the entire bill either. I’m all for paying less as a tax payer but I also want my city on the worlds stage and now is probably the time to do it when ALL of our facilities are rock bottom. I don’t get the dislike for KK either that I read from a few select posters, that’s your business. I think KK has done an admiral job building, preparing and delivering the two extremely complex proposals/designs and representing the owners who have quietly contributed handsomely to this city. Its sad but next summer shall be interesting when KK (or other) is spotted touring new vacant arena’s around the USA, kicking tires so to speak. If the Flames ever left town, through the now wide open door, there is no way in hell Bettman would ever allow another NHL team back here out of spite. I’ve seen the two proposals, I want negotiations to proceed on proposal A.

Has Edm done anything to help reduce or eliminate the “undesirables” as you describe? Or did they just drop a huge building in the middle of their loitering play-ground to displace them? Sounds like the undesirables are still there, they just moved location. Our “undesirable” is contaminated waste land on the west side of DT adjacent to a river bank that waters (or poisons) millions of people down stream. Flames offered $200M to the City to clean it up, kick starting a state of the art multi-facility that meets the requirements to improve every major sporting and entertainment event moving forward. Nobody will ever offer money to clean up that land again, the waste land will continue to be passed from generation to generation. Given the lack of a deal so far, the Flames proposal in West Village is far superior to what the city wants to do with a stand-alone arena on the east side imo.

The benefits the Flames bring to this city is far greater than what people pretend to understand. That's what the mayor of Baltimore said the night before the Colts pulled out unannounced and moved to Indianapolis.

and that's where you're wrong. Lets wait and see what the Flames proposal is first before we draw conclusions and toss the team to an American city for them to reap the benefits from for decades to come.

Which is precisely why the gibberish you type on this matter means nothing. Dropping landmines in ones home town from afar is not much appreciated.

Imagine for a moment the city of Calgary without the Flames, or Toronto without the Maple Leafs or Montreal without the Canadians or NY without the Rangers. These teams not only entertain each fan base but they stimulate their city/state/provincial economy in unimaginable ways. How many dollars would you estimate exchanged hands due to just one regular season or playoff game? Planes, trains, buses, cars, restaurants, hotels, etc are all receiving the benefits of having an NHL team in their city. To say zero public money should be given to a business that stimulates the economy on a regular basis would be rather narrow minded. I prefer a dynamic city that offers various entertainment venues even though I can not support all. I certainly don’t mind supporting the proposed structure which provides the largest entertainment value for this city. For those who prefer stoic and less dynamic municipalities there are plenty of those in rural AB that would love your support.

Did Ken beat you up in grade school? Maybe he crushed your hand in a hand shake? Not sure what your dislike is for the man. He mentioned non-chalantly months ago what he “could do”, never mentioned holding anyone hostage since. I think King has taken the high road and acted professionally on these entire negotiations. Let it be known that Cross elects to stand next to Nenshi waving bye to the Flames bus as it departs town.

I’d say a little of both. A few months’ back King was quoted as saying something to the effect that; “if negotiations do not go well with the city then the Flames would not threaten to move, they would just move”. Today King says; “we are done negotiating with the city, talks are over.” King will never say he is now open to negotiate with other willing partners because that would alienate his local fan base, but rest assured any business would be taking a serious look at their options. The Flames are intertwined in this community, they support and give back a large chunk. This maneuver would seem to elevate the issue just in time for the Municipal election. Do we want a city with or without the Flames? It’s that simple, enough posturing, bluffing, ignoring, its time to make a deal……or not. Make your choice, then live with the consequences.

What are we marketing? A standalone arena or CalgaryNext? Flames and City need to find common ground before letting the cattle out to pasture.