jjgallow

Exactly. To be honest, I think we're closer to finding the next Kipper than we are to having a solid defense core. We've got a couple years ahead of us.

Oh, ok we're talking about the same week, sorry. http://theahl.com/stats/gamebygame.php?id=4979 His first week, he started off great, then had a not-so-great game. Second week, 2 great games. Third week, got pulled, then had a great game. Which, because of the inconsistency, puts him 27th overall in the AHL, despite some good games. http://theahl.com/stats/statdisplay.php?first=20&type=top_goalies&subType=1&season_id=43&leagueId=4&division_id=-1&confId=0 Not horrible. Does not look like an NHL goaltender trapped in the AHL, though. Maybe I'm being a bit hard on him. I would probably be very excited if he was doing this as a 22 year old prospect. But as a potential NHL starter? I'm not seeing it.

We're talking about different games. You're talking about last week's back to back games. I'm talking about this week: http://www.abbotsfordheat.com/schedule/

Well, if you prefer, next time I won't mention it. I really didn't go on about it, or draw attention to it, or criticize you for it. I'm sorry if that bothered you. But, if I make a spelling mistake or some other screwup, I'm not too proud to be corrected. So go ahead, and let me know.

It's Reto. And, if you look, you'll see that everybody on here is complaining. We may not agree on the solution but everyone agrees that what the Flames are doing isn't working. And why, on earth, would you think that Ortio starting for the Heat is an impossibility? I still see it as the clear, and most likely outcome of this year. I only get annoyed at how long the process is taking. Where on earth did you get that from, honestly? I've received a Lot of criticism on here, mostly for making unpopular predictions which have come true or are coming true right now. But it never even occurred to me that anyone would see Ortio starting for the Heat as an impossibility. If that is your feelling, then I guess I'll just add it to my list of things about Flames goaltenders that people have told me are impossible. But I didn't see that one coming, let me tell you. Let me tell you what I think is nearly impossible from what you wrote: -Ramo becoming the automatic starter for the Heat (you really think he would even report? Or that Feaster would ever embarrass himself like that? ) -JMac being sent down (you stopped yourself short there....good. Highly unlikely the Flames subject him to waivers. He has value) -Berra being called up (the Flames might do it, but understand that Berra is getting pulled, in the AHL. It would be very short-lived.) Here's what's simple, DD: The Flames have: 1. A seasoned NHL backup 2. A mediocre KHL goalie that previously fled the AHL and NHL after getting blown out, and is doing it now too 3. A Swiss goalie with no NHL experience, more holes than the cheese they're known for, and a nack for getting pulled in AHL games. 4. A talented, and young Ortio, playing shutout hockey right now, who they never took seriously after putting him in the AHL too early and watching him get 9 goals scored on him in one game. 5. A talented, and even younger Brossoit, who they just put in the AHL too early, and watched him get 9 goals scored on him in one game. Drawn expectations: Expect the goalie playing shutout hockey to get the promotion. How long it takes, is just a question of the competency of the organization. Expect the goalie getting pulled, to not get a promotion. A demotion, or a trade, are both possible. Expect the goalie getting blasted by 9 goals to: Have their confidence shattered and their development significantly set back. Expect the goalie with the $2.5M contract to NOT get a demotion. Not unless Feaster does first. With the way he's playing, don't expect him to be our starter. And Definitely don't expect him to get traded. Nobody would take him. Expect the proven NHL backup, to start for the Flames, or get traded. Because he has value. Likely conclusions: We're stuck with Ramo. Nobody will take him, and there is too much pride involved (on his part, and Feaster's) to send him down. He's likely not good enough to be our starter (I'll give him some more games), which makes him our backup. Berra is on his way out. He might have some trade value, with a reasonable contract and some potential upside. But he's awefully old to be getting pulled in the AHL. That won't last long, and he's a lot easier to move than Ramo. It is possible the Flames give him an NHL game or two before making a decision. But don't expect them to go well. Ortio's getting a promotion. He's had two great seasons in SM Liiga, he had a great camp, and most importantly, he's playing shutout hockey. JMac's our starter by process of elimination. Nobody else has stepped up.

Brossoit got absolutely lit up, the heat gave up a 3-1 lead to finish the game 3-9, brossoit was not pulled. To be fair 5 goals were on the power play They actually put him in a full AHL game? Okay, now I'm mad, lol. This is exactly what they did to Ortio just a few years back. I can't fathom what they were thinking. Brossoit was seriously struggling in the ECHL. The kid's barely 20 years old, fresh out of the WHL, the Flames and All of us had already seen enough to know that he is a Great prospect, but Not ready at this point for the AHL. http://theahl.com/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1011180 When I look at the score sheet, I can see why he wasn't pulled....the goals came on late, far too late to do anything about it. They were also mostly powerplay goals. 42 shots is ridiculous. What this tells me is that the Flames lack strong defensive prospects. I know they have some pieces, but it's not enough. If the Flames respond to this the way they responded with Ortio, we'll never hear of Brossoit again for a couple years. Either way, what a brutal way to wreck a kid's confidence. Had they just left in in the ECHL for the year, he would have struggled at first but at least he'd have a chance at some decent development. Meanwhile, Ortio's easily getting shutouts in the ECHL, which doesn't really do much for his development but at least keeps him fresh. It is unbelievably frustrating to see the organization make the same mistakes over, and over, and over again with their goaltending prospects (and their three "NHL starters", for that matter). How hard is it to put Brossoit in the ECHL, have Ortio start for the Heat, Leave Gillies alone and out of the mess, and trade one of our three "Starters"? I just don't understand what the Flames think they're going to accomplish here having three "NHL starter" goalies, none of which are actually good enough to be NHL starters. Do they think one of them might actually secretly be an all-star and we're Cup-bound this year? And they're willing to wreck the development of not just one, but two of our future goaltending prospects, at the beginning of a rebuild?? We are Really going to have to hope Gillies turns out, because he's our only prospect not subjected to this system.

If you don't know if it's a bad deal yet, it probably is. Contracts should be earned. Cervenka.

Ramo deserves at least 10 games before further decisions are made imho. That being said, it becomes clear on here that when JMac wins us a game but lets in more than two goals, everyone says "we won in spite of our goaltending". When Ramo loses a game and lets 5 past him, it's "We have no defense". I agree with many of the comments in here since last night's game. Except they apply to JMac's games (which he won) as well.

I'm not going to say anything about Ramo. What I will say, is that Ortio got a shutout tonight.

He deserves 10 games for sure.

I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer, but I think you have that logic backwards. True, we don't have any proven NHL starters this year, and the only NHL proven goaltender we have is JMac. It appears that you are using this to to assume that we must have 2 or 3 starting NHL goalies, and nobody can prove you wrong because we haven't seen them play enough NHL games. But that's not how it works, unfortunately. Berra was just pulled last night after some brutal play in the AHL. http://theahl.com/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1011157 While you are correct that we haven't seen him in the NHL, I think we can all put two and two together and assume that his struggles in the AHL aren't likely going to translate well up here, or that we should get excited about a "Ramo Berra" combo. If Berra can prove that he is worthy of being in the AHL, then we can Ask the Question as to whether we should ignore training camp, where he was beaten by Ramo, who is also unproven, and give him another Chance in the NHL. I haven't played an NHL game either...maybe I'm a starter? Now, I'm wishing Ramo the best tonight, so no comments there. But so far, the only goaltenders in our system that hasn't blown it so far, are Ortio and Gillies. And they're nowhere near ready to help the Flames this year or next. Coincidentally, neither of them have been given any opportunities with the Heat either (Ortio doing well in the ECHL, Gillies in College). Unfortunately, our best shot at developing our future goaltending saviours, is to keep them far, far away from our goaltending glut.

Fact: The Flames, on paper, went into this season as the worst team in the league. Particularly on defense and in net. Fact: Defensively and goaltending-wise, we should not be surprised. Fact: Our recent offensive outbursts are unlikely to carry us past the first 15 games of the season. Fact: The most exciting part of this year for the Flames is still probably going to be the NHL draft. Fact: None of Jmac, Ramo, or Berra, are likely to fix this. Gillies could be part of the solution, in a few years. If Ramo, or Berra, turns out to be an NHL star and proves all this wrong, great! But I don't think we should get too excited, or dissapointed, in our goaltending this year. It's not just the goaltending. The offense is unsustainable, for starters. The defense is incredibly weak. Much of what I believe is being blamed on Jmac, is actually defense. We've kept our shots against down (which is also unsustainable), but we have also had many ridiculous defensive breakdowns consistent with what you would expect of this team on paper. If one of these three beat the odds and lead the Flames into the playoffs, awesome. But the Flames hair-brained strategy of just acquiring lots and lots and lots of sub-par goaltenders and hoping to come up with a Tim Thomas, does not stand good odds. It's a great strategy for developing effective 3rd and 4th lines. It's a horrible strategy for your top line, or goaltending. We have not actively developed a goalie in their early 20's in many years. Gillies may be the first that's being developed properly, and that's because US College is keeping him completely separated from our disfunctional goalie development system. That, more than talent, is what makes Gillies our brightest hope. In the meantime, I don't think we should get too excited, or upset.

I'll even say this: If Ramo gets blown away today, we can't really use that to evaluate him. Part of the problem with having so many goalies in your system, is it's not long before they all start playing badly, and it becomes very difficult to separate the goalies who are truely bad from the goalies that just haven't seen any games. And from there, it is easy to make poor decisions. I've seen the Flames do this before, with far less goalies in the system. I'm not a Ramo fan, but I don't think we can draw too many conclusions from tonight.

Shenanigans, or Cervenka syndrome?

lol I've already melted down a long time ago over this...I actually agree with you. I don't care if it's pee wee hockey, if Ortio is getting minutes it's a good thing. I don't believe for a second that this is because Laurent has moved up on their depth chart: He was struggling in the ECHL. Ortio should dominate. Perhaps after a brief loss of confidence, of course. I guess he should have stayed in SM Liiga. But this is far, far better than just watching the Heat play (we can all do that too). I consider Ortio's development now stagnated, but not destroyed. And I doubt the stint will be more than 15 games. Big changes are still coming.

Brossoit is really struggling in the ECHL right now. He convinced me in training camp that he is a legimate prospect, but by far on the bottom of our list, even adjusting for age. He is far more than 2 years away. 4-5, imho, if things go well for him. Ortio is an absolute minimum of 2 years out, if he gets playing time. He hasn't played yet this year, due to the number of goalies we have this in the system. If he doesn't get a decent amount of games in, then imho, it's a massive setback to his development. I would go as far as to say it's the difference between being a potential NHL starter, to never making the NHL. Sad. Gillies could in fact be our saviour. But he is also probably 2 years out. And, with the way we have spread our development resources out, it is clear that the Flames are banking on Gillies, and Gillies alone. Or just plain not thinking past this year. He's great, but it makes me nervous that he's the only impressive prospect we're properly developing right now. We have 3, if you go by what the Flames are saying. So, I agree with you, lol. NONE of them are EVER going to be stars in the NHL. We only have one prospect with that potential: Gillies. Or two, if we chose to develop Ortio.

Lol I've nothing against Ramo. I'll admit that I never agreed with the original trade that brought him here, but that wasn't specifically about him. But that's all in the past. I am concerned that we've clogged our development system with 27 year olds. That being said, Ramo should get his chance at some point, and I will be cheering for him when he does. I think it'll be soon.

woah.....Berra was just moments away from getting a shutout tonight... I was about to post on here that he's gonna get the shutout callup....and they just scored on him. My guess is they'll play Ramo soon enough.

We've watched Kipper let in 100's of these goals, and never spoken of it. Even before he dropped off. The same can be said of Ramo in his NHL game. And, his first pre-game in Calgary was, in fact, a horror-show. An absolute horror show. Did he get better? Yes. Did he get brilliant? No. Did he scare the coaches? I think so. We're talking about a guy with multiple youtube videos of lettings goals in from one end of the rink to the other. And he showed us why, as soon as he got here. Jmac also made some nice saves. He's 3-0-1, his save percentage is the same as last year, and his save percentage is the same as Ramo's. He hardly got any playing time in the preseason. Struggling with the puck along the boards is common among goalies that haven't played much with their defense/wingers. I'm not saying he's our saviour. I'm just saying that we're experiencing a small miracle as a team right now, and the grass is very likely not greener on the other side. Should we play Ramo? yes. Should we "develop" him if he sucks? no. Ramo Has been given a chance, and he failed to take advantage of his first one. Jmac is already proven after many years, and the coaches made the right decision in terms of getting wins, by going with him. Ramo Will get more chances. but not 50 chances. I think, at his age, 10 chances would be fair. If he pulls it together, he may have an NHL career ahead of him. Not personally betting on it.

I actually agree with this, 100%. I don't agree that we should want Jmac to get pasted 10-0. I don't agree that Ramo is better than Jmac. I don't agree that Ramo is an NHL goaltender. I don't agree that we are in a RUSH to see what Ramo offers, or that we need to "develop" him at his age. But I think that any Flame's goalie, at his development stage, should get 10 NHL games minimum, to see what they're made of. It just may not be as soon, or as urgent, as some on here want it to be. When it happens, I'm not going to cheer against Ramo. Or want him to get pasted 10-0. But I wouldn't bet against it either.

100%. Absolutely. I sort of get that there are those who have an arguement for Ramo (although it's a very poor one imho). But I don't understand how anybody couldn't like Jmac, cheer for him, or want him to do well. Either as a player or a fan. He's just that kind of person and player.

? So, now what...are condelences in order? Another solid win, with steady goaltending. I know this wasn't the 10-0 loss you were hoping for phoenix, but at least he let in a couple? trying to look on the bright side...

There was not a single sentence in the post you just made that I could even relate to in any way. And I mean, I looked to see if there was a sentence that I could agree with to find some common ground. Even if you're right, and the rest of the world is wrong (including Hartley, and whoever else is behind this conspiracy).... Can you at least wish Jmac, and the Flames well? i don't think that's too much to ask.

I've somewhat given up on the season before it started, and I'm paying way more attention to the players in this year's draft than I am the Flame's current standings. FYI: Sam Reinhart is shaping up to be an incredible superstar, early on in this season. Think: Playing better than Baertschi did in Junior, but a year younger. Very, very few human comparables in this world (if he keeps it up). Yet, I don't actually Want the Flames to lose any one particular game, even though I actually have a good reason to. I'm just amazed that people would post for a 10-0 pasting because they didn't get to see their favourite goalie play. Amazing. p.s....why would he be your favourite goalie? Because of some interview with Feaster? I see no other reason. Regardless, I don't care if he's the 2nd coming of Patrick Roy, I've no idea why anyone here would wish for the Flames to lose 10-0 unless they get to see their favourite goalie.

You made some good points in your post, but in terms of "obvious", I think we have to at least recognize that JMac has played a big part in giving us a winning record, and at times has been spectacular. He is also the only NHL -proven goalie we have. A backup, yes. But a backup for contenders and Stanley cup champions. And, at times, a successful starter for some very dodgy NHL teams. While I recognize the valid points you are making, I would not consider them obvious, but rather quite speculative. In particular, you are making an assumption that JMac is like some kind of battery that will "run out of juice" if played more than, say, 10 games. In reality, he's at an age that a lot of goalies just start to enter their prime, and may very well be better than he ever was. He's been a starter for some bad NHL teams, and he's been a backup for some incredible NHL teams, filling on back-to-back nights, never really having in from of him at their most defensively conscious. He has played as many as 49 NHL games in a season, and did just fine. I don't think any goaltender his age should play more than 60 games. But to think that he will wear out, is not all obvious, but highly imaginative. It's fairly clear that many on here just "WANT" Ramo to be the starter, because they do. And I get that, fine. But we should be happy that we have Jmac. Instead of saying "Jmac is finding success and helping us win, BUT... Ramo Ramo Ramo Berra", Can we just say: "Jmac is finding success and helping us win, Woo!" ?