phoenix66
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Everything posted by phoenix66
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I was using their time in the Ahl as comparison. Aside from his 4 game year he posted .904, .906, .915 Roy posted .937,.902 and had an .897 going this year And I said competent..not a star.. could be a backup, might be a starter, but I do think he will one day see nhl time. My main point in ut all is it was a pretty insignificant loss to us and we got the best player in the deal
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My bad.. I didn't know you were sitting in on their contract negotiation, that changes everything. They cant just simply"let him go"..thats why kovalchuk had to retire, his numbers are on the books for 1 more year no matter what unless we trade him. I cant explain why hes not getting played, his games have been ok, but I would not be surprised to see him sent down for playing time soon and jmac back as Berras backup..playing like a backup this time. (Yes..taking play time from Ortio) until he somehow gets the coaches confidence again Are we really going into this "non nhl goalie" stuff again?? So ortio rocked his last leage..so did Ramo and Berra..how is one more significant than the other? Yes..2 years as the ahl starter...lets not forget ortio has most of our future defense in front of him..probably getting less 3rd and 4th chances. When he comes up he needs to be fully entrenched and ready..one season and he could lose his confidence in one game. We have the luxury of time..we need to use it No way Gillies goes straight to the nhl..its widely believed Gibson is a better goaltender and he certainly wasnt ready to step right in
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So did Dubnyk and Roy..just sayin...sv% is very misleading stat, right up there with +/- . Doesn't change the fact he was still easily #3 on our future prospects chart behind Ortio and Gilies..same spot Roy occupies now. I have no doubts he will be a competent nhl goalie one day, but people in here are acting like we traded Patrick Roy
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Couple issues here: 1. Ramo is signed for 2 years, and contrary to anything I've been able to find, does not have a khl out clause. You are likely looking at the Berra/Ramo tandem through next season. And although I disagree with how the workload is being distributed currently, Berra is clearly winning the #1 role 2. Ortio is not nhl ready, and we dont need to rush him. One more year as the guy in Abbotsford is needed with porentially spot duty in calgary 3. Not sure but I think Gillies has another year of college, but if he does go pro, should become the guy in Alaska with Roy backing up Ortio in abbotsford.
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Im definitely in agreement that the ratio is too high.id like to see ramo at least every 4th game or so. I do admit to being a little baffled by hartleys aversion to him. He played jmac almost to that ratio as well, then when ramo did his run, up came reto. DunNo..
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While I agree both should be getting work, this is not like when jmac was up, now we have a true battle for starter going. We dont see the practices, or the coaching. Berra in nearly all his starts has been playing like a starter. Hes giving the team a chance to win, in some cases stealing points. Ramo has done this too, but there is obviously something in berra that is giving the coaches confidence that hes the guy to start. Ramo now needs to sparkle in his starts to start wrestling bet time from Berra.
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I take 10 days off and leave the country and come back to way too many points that need to be addressed, cant possibly quote them all..so ill just make a summary.. 1) ramo and berra are likely the goaltending combo til end of next season, lets live with it. Ortio is at best a year away from a back up role and gilies at least 2. Any less than that and we are not developing properly. As much as I hate the canucks, schneider was the poster child for properly grooming a goalie. 2) people who insist on calling R&B "non nhl goalies" obviously have no clue how the position is played, by their definition the following is just a sampling of other non nhl goalies: fasth, hillier, khabibulin, Crawford,Quick, Emery. The simple truth is we have a team that,requires a goalie to steal games on a nightly basis or we wont win. Thats the way it is, and is part of the rebuild process. Both our goslies keep us in games, and have stolen some. 3) Brossoit was not the second coming , and likely will not bite us..ever.his timetable for being nhl ready put him 3rd behind Ortio and Gillies, he was a valuable commodity. The argument being made that he instantly became their goalie of the future only speaks to the sad state of the oilers goaltending prospects. Assuming hes going to be an nhl all star based on his whl play has obviously never heard of Alexander Fomichev
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1.21 gaa and .96 sv% his last stint in the echl is struggling?? And yes hes ahead of him progress wise but it now means hes gotta go..roy to back up ortio in ahl..gotta ve some goalie we can send to Alaska instead?
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Sooooo..now that brossoit is gone...where do we feel Roy fits in the pecking order? Personally I think this means jmac gets cut loose soon somehow..late round pick or something
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I missed that..what did jmac have to say?
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Our system has been a goalie deathbed. We havent drafted and groomed a goalie with the intent of him being a solid franchise goaltender since Trevor Kidd, and once he claimed that spot Pierre Page destroyed him. Since then we filled the #1 role with trades (tabaracci, wregget,Brathwaite, turek) Then we got lucky on an emergency injury trade (kipper) so for the last 8 years, we drafted and groomed for a decent backup. Only irving and krahn were thought to have any starter ability And they were plugged into a system that had no emphasis on being a #1. Your big prize for bystibg your hump in the minors was to sit on a bench in calgary watching kipper play 80 games per year. Proof of this was having goalies in the system on pure ahl contracts who were never even being thought of as even being nhl backups, and then playing them like starters Now.. we're putting goalies in the system who are being told the job is open, come get it This is only good news for the team and its future in net.
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Now that was impressive. As impressive as Ramo in LA. Now we can have a true goalie battle:)
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Agreed..thats why a big part of me wants jmac to get claimed. We dont need ortio riding the pine for long stretches while jmac gets all the starts. Dont need another taylor/Brust situation.
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Im actually a little shocked by this..but only to the degree that they didnt trade, or maybe they tried. I will not be shocked if he gets picked up, I just hope its not the oilers. If he does clear, hope he doesn't get the majority of the starts ahead of Ortio. As far as the flames roster move is concerned, it can only be a good thing. Now they can battle head to head for #1, both can feel legitimately threatened for their job..best man wins. Goalies need to be pushed.
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We already have a Gibson, his name is Gillies. Gibson is maybe one year closer, but at thw end of the day I believe Gillies will be the better goaltender
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I remember this one goalie the flames had once. It was always a major accomplishment when he got a shutout because it was a virtual guarantee he was going to let in at least one garbage goal per game. It became common to make bets as to what it was going to be..five hole? On his back? Etc. But it was commonly known it was going to happen. His name was Mike Vernon I fully agree..if and when we hoist the cup again it likely wont be berra or Ramo on the ice. But to date Ramo has cost us one game..just one..Dallas. and at the same time the entire team can hang their heads too. Ive said it 100 times, consistent game stealing goaltenders are rare..we've had one in our history. If a goaltender gives his team a cgance to win..hes doing his job. Every goalie shows different in different systems..kipper was a minor leaguer in san jose.. so you cant say whether Bernier would have been a good pick up. If youre basing the tending on how many games are getting stolen..youre goung to hate the goaltending for a long long time. With the number of odd man rushes, multiple shots, and obscene quality scoring chances we give up, to have a save% close to .900 I think is borderline stellar
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Im going to slightly disagree. I would love to see us pick up a seasoned, top 2 dman. We need a stable teacher type back there, someone the kids can emulate.at the same time its gotta be someone that fits our system. Right now I dont know who that is, , nor would I give up the farm to get him. Giordano is great, but I think we need a respected vet back there on a short term deal, until we can ease the wothherspoons, the Seiloffs etc into the lineup full time. Pretty sure butler gets cut loose somehow after this season..that may be on the ufa shopping list. Disagree..we need to run the gamut in our system first. I would agree if goaltending was costing us wins but so far that hasnt been the case
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I have to 100% agree with this. Its getting kind of old now. Ramo has not had 1 "good" game, hes had 2 good, one great and ill even concede one bad one..even tho yes, he was hung out to dry, , his job is to save us from those collapses. Is he kipper? No..but from what ive seen hes a perfectly legitimate nhl goaltender. Youre right, its obvious some people have a hate on for the guy before he ever got here and nothing will ever change that it seems short of winning a vezina trophy.
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See and thats exactly it. I love jmac, the irony is hes exactly what we needed for years, and havent had since jamie McClellan. Top quality backup, wins when he plays..can handle a larger load, quality character. Probably best guy to have behind a rookie. Until such time as both ramo and berra have proven they can split the load I dont want him going anywhere. But when that time comes I hope they move him to a contender. I think if you expose him on waivers, he gets snapped up..the oilers especially, if MacT has half a brain would be stupid not to. Unless he keeps playing lights out, I think you might see ramo do about a 10 game stint in the A just to test out berra before xmas. If he shows well then they make the move in the new year
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Its just one game..just as the loss was. But Ramo sure looked like a 2.6M goalie tonight!
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Makes sense..thanks for clarifying that!
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Both these statements are very true..kipper hid our defensive lackings for years..but in the end even he wasnt good enough.
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I get the impression that until the next kipper comes along no goalie is going to be good enough. For all intents and purposes hes no different than a 22 yr old prospect. Hes having to adapt his game to a new system that hes never played. The fact hes had more impressive games than bad ones, speaks to his skillset.
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Actually, cervenka is a good example of why 2 year deals are better. No camp, blood clots, new system, new country, 1/2 season... his own poor attitude notwithstanding, I believe he comes back this a whole new player..just look at the difference in Hudler this year. But thats already covered in the cervenka thread.. Just sayin, in the bloated salary world of the nhl, 2.6 mill is chump chsnge for a starting goaltender, I dont believe there was any ultimatums involved. Thats pretty much the stahdard bridge contract for a goaltender Also..not sure about this, but the amount of salary may affect his FA status at term end.. ramo is Rfa at the end of 2 years, but yet cervenka was ufa at the end of his. I think salary level comes into play somewhere. Again..not sure, will have to check into that..
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But again, we dont know if its a good or bad deal yet. A view of capgeek shows that 2.6M is pretty much the going rate for a new starting goaltender who is riding a reputation but has never shown they can carry a team. 2.6M is a low salary for a starter. Ramo was defiitely brought here to be the starter. We all may be in agreement that the Nhl is the premiere league, but people constantly writing off the Khl as a recreational pickup beer league is getting a little tiresome. Its the 2nd best league in the world, and Ramo was essentially the best goalie in that league. For him to receive what amounts to a starters base nhl salary isnt unreasonable. Is 2.6 lots of money? Yes Is he unproven as an nhl starter? Yes. But so were Dubnyk, varlamov, Fasth,Bernier, neuvirth..when they got their contracts..sometimes you win (fasth 2.4m) sometimes you lose (dubnyk 3.75M) but thats the going rate. Success in one league certainly does not always mean success in the other, no argument there, ..he might end up being a total bust, no argument there.... but his credentials warranted the belief he could come here and be the starter. He was given only a 2 year contract at the lower end of a starters pay scale To suggest he should be grovelling for spare change just for the golden opportunity to play in the glorious nhl is a bit overblown. He wanted a commitment to make the move..fair request, he got one..now the onus is on him to earn the next one
