tmac70

Sutter being removed really what does it change other than life gets easier with no consequences? Does this assure the UFA's sign, will performances get better, and any guarantees we get in the playoffs, NOPE. This is a great deal for the players, You demand change but you don't have to change, just another day in the dysfunctional world of CGY Flames hockey.

Love would be a great choice however I just don't believe you're going to see great progression regardless of who coaches next season. IMHO this put more pressure on the players, we already know they can't handle pressure

What gets troubling for me is, it's fine to hear through sources that the players hate Sutter but it's not fine if it happens to the players. I will agree Sutter had his head-scratching moments, but so did the players. This toxic environment isn't just a coach, it is a collective thing in the organization. Strange we never heard a peep last season about Toxixcity till Kadri, and I am not blaming him solely either, however, there seems to be a pattern with him. Kadri is a very poor example of a leader in my opinion. Just cause he has a big mouth doesn't make him a leader. What needs to happen is a collective long look in the mirror and change the one thing everyone has control over and that YOURSELF. IMHO in those exit meetings that's the first question I would ask, is what were your thoughts on why we never got to the postseason? If the directive was to point fingers instantly at the coach, then YOU are the problem. Great players, great leaders, and winners bear responsibility on themselves lead, by example and take responsibility they don't blame others.

Is not the same thing occurring with Sutter now? Strange how the media fans people on this forum have ZERO issue trashing him and that's acceptable. IMHO that is a bunch of BS. So it's fine if someone is a department head but not an employee. So one year was top of the world to the bottom of the manure pile the next, it's all on the coach? It's most likely been uncomfortable for Sutter and his family but that's okay now. Did Bowness belittle his players after the Vegas series, by saying it was an embarrassment and disgrace on how the top players played? Was Kadri great this year, hell no, the guy was useless for the last half of the year, the CHI game was the epitome of his attitude. If Kadri is your leader in that room, that's some low-level leadership. So based on your summary Toffoli, Lewis, Lucic, and Coleman have no value in their leadership based on their accomplishments, or is it that because their coaches don't hold a candle to Bednar and Kadri's accomplishments? As I have said multiple times, I am not defending Sutter, but if what he did was so utterly inappropriate and disgusting was is it acceptable for it to happen to him

Well the Wranglers win again in OT, sloppy game they gave up 2 short-handed goals and were down 3-1 going into the 3rd. Phillips has absolutely abused this whole game and scored the game-winner on PP to seal it. Was a sloppy win but it's a win. They are now 2-0 in the best of 5, hopefully, they play their best game of this series to end it,

I am fine with employees or players having rights but this is going beyond ridiculous. As a business owner, this is the issue, you now have inmates running the asylum. If it's not life-changing life-threatening or life alternating then get over yourself. If the players have the ability to say I am taking my bat and ball and going home, there has to be something the CBA or contract that can release them from it to protect the owners. This also should be an eye-opener for Sutter, with some veteran players. The younger guys are willing to do what it takes but the veterans want a cozy work environment, no effort, and maximum pay, there not winning material there whiners. Possibly could be some good comes out of this as the cream will rise to the top and you can remove the curds.

Just watch Bowness'e interview after their series loss to Vegas......Maybe he should be hung out like Sutter for his comments. What troubles me in today's world is everyone wants the truth but simply can't handle the truth, because when it's provided you are the bad guy. I did see an interview on Sportsnet with a basketball player, for the Bucks who gave a great answer to one of the reporters about the season being a disappointment. It was a great insight into the process and what winning is all about. He talks about the process of winning and the steps to winning and losing is a big part of that, which sounds very similar to what we hear. Been also hearing that some contract players are going to boycott if Sutter is back, for that reason alone I hope they bring him back. If you can't fight through adversity IMHO tells me all I need to know about you as an individual.

100% of what gets lost in all of this is he has two sons that love the game one that is Captain of the team. He has twice won the hardest thing is sports to win, so there is some value in that as well if they bring him in the room. Regardless of what people want to believe, DS appears to be a very genuine caring person, this season's disaster isn't solely on DS.

The oscar for best actor goes to

The whole thing is a win for the city and province. Housing around any form of water will be a premium return.

Wranglers win game one 3-2 in OT with Petls getting the winner. Also been stated that Sutter and Maloney were in attendance.

Well, it's good news for Alberta and Calgary for now. I can see the NDP not being in favor of this though.

Perfect then who's next that we can fire in a year? Can you absolutely confirm that Sutter was hired by the owners and not Trevling, because there seem to be conflicting stories on this?

Some say the owners hired DS and then there is interviews with Trevling stating that he and Daryl had a conversation for years before he hired him. I don't have as good a pulse on the situation as you may but from what I see on the surface this was a Trevling hire, with the owner's backing and blessings. I see ownership involved at certain points but there are things that have transpired with Tre that indicate he does or did have more decision power than we think. Also, we did go through a rebuild with Tre as we had JG as a franchise guy, 3 top 6 picks as well. The owner's mandate is just to get in which creates the just average attitude, of what we have been for decades. Trevling left us with no franchise players, 2 really bad contracts, a prospect pool that is very slim, and 6 UFAs that need to be dealt with, unhappy staff, players, and distention among players and coaches. The fact that it's being spun that his departure is because of Sutter IMHO is ridiculous, could it have been part of the reason, no one will ever know. Sutter and the players don't get a pass either, there is lots of blame to go around. We can all agree Sutter needs to change his ways, methods, and tactics, as the players need to be better as well. Personally, if the players are given the chance to redeem themselves then Sutter should be as well. Everyone should be given a short leash, specific instructions next season, and a good slap of get the F over it and move on, it is like adult day cares for Christ's sake. Grown men make millions acting like children, it is just to bad that this pent-up aggression was not focused on the opposition more than each other.

The reasoning as to why we keep going through coaches reminds me of Goldilocks and the three bears. There either too soft to hard, and they can never find just the right. Then we have the minions that think they know the right way but have never done anything in their lives putting forth lame-arse arguments for the roster we should have player usage, yes I would be one as well, lol. Win the division one year don't make the playoffs the next, this is a CGY franchise it's been this way forever. It's easy to sit here and spitball what one would do because we are all experts and know more than the people in charge. For those who believe the owners need to change then strike them a check for $855 million, lol, its so easy to spend other people's money. Those of you who think that there isn't an owner of a team that does have any say or input into what happens with a club for hires and trades are foolish. There are NO GMs allowed full autonomy of a club where the team's owner doesn't have some form of final say or input with the hiring trades or signings. Is Sutter staying or is he going no idea, IMHO the longer this goes on the worse it would be for DS. The next steps have to be done correctly or this will only get worse. What troubles me with all of this is the players, where is their accountability? IMHO I simply can't see that a coaching change instantly creates a better product or effort on the ice, can't see it. Will players have a bounce back year 100% why, we have a boatload that need new contracts, there are your incentives. Every time its contracts year motivation increases from the year previous. This same team WOULD be drastically better solely on that which is frustrating at best

So Tre leaves to only be replaced by a guy that is similar in Maloney. I love Conroy and Pascoe has done a good job with the AHL team. IMHO just for optics it appears you're bringing in an outsider If the rumors are true that Tre was given the green light to remove Sutter, then why leave it to Maloney to do. So my 2 cents is if Sutter is given a pass it will be an outside guy that has some form of connection to Sutter. Tulsky would be my first choice, but I could see a Fula. If Sutter is removed then the only right thing to do is promote Love to HC and Conroy to GM. Its a breath of fresh air for everyone and Love at least knowing the prospects and the system that's in place now. If you make a wholesale change to the coaching staff and systems, you may as well trade it all off in the off-season. Even with the new coach do Backs still want to be here, Lindholm, Tanev, Toffoli, Hanifin, and Zadorov/. IMHO you could retool pretty fast by trading those parts. Lindholm, Backs, Tanev, Toffoli, and Hanifin should bring you some firsts.

Despite the changes coming forth in upper management coaches, who is getting moved on the roster? There is going to have to be some going out and something coming in. So UFA next season their has to be some changes coming in. The fact we are in a position to lose 2 of our best C's is alarming. We have nothing in the AHL that replaces this. Plus we are in the mix of losing top 2-5 dman with the uncertainty of Kylington. One or two of these guys are gone next year on this list it comes down to who and can those holes be filled, What's the trade value or do you run the season and hope that you can reatain. Regardless the club needs to clear $5 Million to ice a team next season, Thoughts? Forwards Lindholm, Backs, Toffolli Defense Kylington, Hanifiin, Zadorov, Tanev

Its all a gamble bud so in Tre's defense nothing worked out right. Now if things did align and we didn't trade 1st for useless crap we would be further ahead, but can't live in the past. A rebuild will happen it just won't be called that but the optics will scream otherwise. Everyone needs to not get caught up in simple terms of language, becasue they don't use the word doesn't mean there against it

I don't disagree, Case in point was Cassidy in Boston. On his exit meetings and interviews found that his approach was too much changed and adapted to be successful in Vegas. It's not that people can't change it's that they think there is no problem and want to change. I am by no means advocating either way for Sutter other than weighing the evidence and sifting through it all. I am pretty sure everyone could live with Sutter with how few interviews. Daryl's not stupid he is going I think he has recognized that he needs to change. The only factor left is will he and what he judged on moving forward if he stays.

What makes everyone think the reason he left was to go somewhere else? I for one think he will take some time off re set and relax this season. People tend to think he NEEDS a job.I agree he will land somewhere I just don't think there is an immediate rush to find something in the near future or does he even want to do it anymore. Everyone tends to think its all glory rainbows and puppy dogs, but that job is so demanding and taxing it would make 95% of people fold due to stress and anxiety.

That's what I took out of this as well. This was a Trevling decision not me VS him thing as everyone wants it to be. That said if the rumor you stated has any validity to it then it should give some relief to the Fire Sutter and all is a great crowd. IMHO Sutter isn't safe in this either, it's still early let it play out. I for one am OK with Sutter being removed if he is not willing to adapt and change or there is to much to repair. Frankly, 100% agree Love is the best next option, Caveat though he is a hard Arse to.

By attrition a rebuild is inevitable, they may not use the term or word but it's unavoidable. Teams usually trend up then peak and then trend down to the rebuild stage and hopefully trend upwards again. When you look at LA they have a shorter version of at the top based on age, got to the top short 3-year span crashed solely based on players' ages. Then went rebuild and are starting to trend up again. Tampa used a mix and cycled out older for younger but drafted and developed based on need, move UFA out draft develop bring up younger version insert, rinse repeat. The cycle down now is your top-end players are getting worn out and it comes to an end soon there. So what does this club look like if Bennett, Monahan, JG, Valimaki, Fox, Hamilton and MT worked out to the level of expectation, this club would be in a very good spot if not great. However between injuries, misfit, no desire to be here, lack of talent ones that tried and wanted to leave

The next phase is coaches and scouts. There needs to be some self-analysis of this. DS needs to, look in the mirror and see what self-change viewpoints do I need to correct that could have led to the problem. IMHO if I come forth with documentation to validate my side from the interviews and he isn't open to change or admitting yeah this was wrong I could have done this better, I remove his Hash Rate. I am not laying this 100% on Sutter but There is nothing more repulsive than an individual who won't or can't accept responsibility for their actions and deflect. The same goes to the scouts and rest of the personnel. It also stems to the top as well, if Sutter was allowed to overstep his boundaries then that on the owners for allowing it, that is something that needs to be addressed as well. The correction needs to start at the top and work down, the 1st question that needs to be asked and answered is " What was our role that created this, and how do we prevent it moving forward? Everyone loves a tragedy, as everyone just adds more and more negative content to the situation. For me this is a blessing in disguise. Step back and Hash Rate this from all angles and areas find the flaws, faults, that lead to this, put forth directives and policies, and procedures moving forward, get a common vision from everyone involved on what is required at all levels to be successful to move forward in harmony. Sometimes we have to hit bottom to recognize there is a huge issue, to me this is it.

You're a product of your own environment, if it was as toxic as you indicate, then not 1 player would sign stay for any form of duration. Have to remember this is the TEAM Trevling built. Every up-down good or bad deal trade, hire, or draft choice falls on him, that's 9 years of mediocrity. I am not saying he isn't a standup guy, well-liked, knowledgable, or hard-working, seems like a good man, but based on a 9-year tender, we are still average. When he stepped back to analyze the season as it progressed you could see why he waved the white flag, he couldn't and didn't accomplish the end goal. I will be very surprised if he takes a role of any capacity for a year. He will most likely step back exhale and do some soul-searching as to what he wishes to do next, he has earned that. The GM left based on what I would call the correct decision based on his performance, he did the professional thing he fired himself. The next steps moving forward are not going to be easy decisions.

From what I got out of this it was not a Sutter over Trevling decision, it was BT is mentally and Physically done. Unless you have been in a GM role you have no Fing idea how taxing it is on the body and health. There isn't one factor where he would have made this decision its a collection of emotions good and bad for 9 years of an emotional roller coaster it's just a combination of millions of things, trust me it takes its toll physically and mentally. His time here has expired, from what I got out of this, the club and owners offered and he turned it down, I get it. There is nothing and I mean nothing that is more liberating and freeing than what Trevling did by walking away. I would bet when he did it was like the world was lifted off his shoulders. He will be back at some time but I don't think he bailed here to go elsewhere. Appreciate his time and wish him the best moving forward. With the rest of we are not done. Sutter isn't clear yet. Maloney having been involved with the exit meetings its all going to depend on how the notes align. IMHO, Bean is well-spoken and gets it. Take the information and process it. analysis and then base your decision on what the vision was, and who was ultimately responsible for their part. I can see a process where Sutter is returning with lots of caveats moving forward, he will be on a short leash in that they will have a list of here is what needs to change and they will hold him to it. Nobody is and I mean nobody is immune to what happened this year. Who knows Sutter may do what Trevling did and go yeah this isn't what I signed up for or I am not on board with, I am out. Buckle up we are only just getting started.