24-25 Training Camp

[cberg]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

Yes. That restriction only applies to kids taken out of major junior. 

 

I don't think the AHL is best for him personally but technically he can play there. 

If he is uber talented and needing a bigger challenge, AHL probably it.  How high can he go remains to be seen. In Calgary Flames staff can continually monitor and direct.  Hey, top picks go right into the NHL, what's the problem?

[jjgallow]

25 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

Yes. That restriction only applies to kids taken out of major junior. 

 

I don't think the AHL is best for him personally but technically he can play there. 

 

Thanks.   I get that, and usually I'm also of the opinion that more junior or college is better first.   But, seeing as that ship's sailed....it's sure looking like Wranglers by process of elimination?

Never know the situation.  He might need the money, keep in mind.  He'll have family back home, and unlike most of his peers if there's money that needs to move between him and family, it's probably headed in their direction.

 

He's a Big kid.   The AHL is rough, that's obviously the risk.   But he does have the size and strength for it.

[cross16]

25 minutes ago, cberg said:

If he is uber talented and needing a bigger challenge, AHL probably it.  How high can he go remains to be seen. In Calgary Flames staff can continually monitor and direct.  Hey, top picks go right into the NHL, what's the problem?

 

I don't think he meets this definition. 

 

I have no problem with players going right to AHL or NHL if they are ready for it. I think Gridin, both in terms of physical and game maturity, needs more time. 

 

Not to mention he needs ice time, he needs to play PP, he needs to lead a team. none of that is going to happen in the AHL. 

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Thanks.   I get that, and usually I'm also of the opinion that more junior or college is better first.   But, seeing as that ship's sailed....it's sure looking like Wranglers by process of elimination?

Never know the situation.  He might need the money, keep in mind.  He'll have family back home, and unlike most of his peers if there's money that needs to move between him and family, it's probably headed in their direction.

 

He's a Big kid.   The AHL is rough, that's obviously the risk.   But he does have the size and strength for it.

 

This ship hasn't sailed, just the college route. He can still play in junior. rights are owned by Val D'Or.

 

 

[jjgallow]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

This ship hasn't sailed, just the college route. He can still play in junior. rights are owned by Val D'Or.

 

 

 

[conundrumed]

Just to add to what cross has said, his D game is definitely a work in progress. Imo that's the hardest part for any O-minded prospect. Saying, "you can teach defence" is one of my least fave sayings. It takes a lot of fortitude and many just don't get there, or get there at the expense of their O play that made them so appealing in the first place. It's quite a tightrope.

The A is kind of annoying, as development can really take a backseat to wins and losses. A few mistakes and you're in the doghouse. Misses the point too often.

[travel_dude]

16 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Just to add to what cross has said, his D game is definitely a work in progress. Imo that's the hardest part for any O-minded prospect. Saying, "you can teach defence" is one of my least fave sayings. It takes a lot of fortitude and many just don't get there, or get there at the expense of their O play that made them so appealing in the first place. It's quite a tightrope.

The A is kind of annoying, as development can really take a backseat to wins and losses. A few mistakes and you're in the doghouse. Misses the point too often.

I thought we moved away from wins as being the AHL goal.  Maybe I am wrong.  It may have been the coach that left when Huska got selected to be the NHL coach.  He seemed very intense.  Can't say for sure he had that mindset but it comes with the territory that an up and coming coach only wants to win.

 

I hope that Gridin goes to the CHL.  Not that the Q is great for defensive play, but I think he needs to grow a bit as a person.  I would have preferred the NCAA route, but I can live with the CHL route.  It's D+1 for him so it's not like he's an overager.

[jjgallow]

18 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Just to add to what cross has said, his D game is definitely a work in progress. Imo that's the hardest part for any O-minded prospect. Saying, "you can teach defence" is one of my least fave sayings. It takes a lot of fortitude and many just don't get there, or get there at the expense of their O play that made them so appealing in the first place. It's quite a tightrope.

The A is kind of annoying, as development can really take a backseat to wins and losses. A few mistakes and you're in the doghouse. Misses the point too often.

 

If you're trying to teach defence though...   what's the point of going to Val D'Or?

 

Really?  lol

 

You would be surprised to know that "you can teach defense" is one of my least favorite sayings too, but I still like it better than "you can teach offense".

 

In any case, to me, I don't see the point of him in the Q.    He's got enough languages to learn already and he hardly needs a season of shoot-out hockey right now.

 

I think the answer becomes the AHL by process of elimination.

 

HOWEVER.....lol.    However.....If he goes to the AHL, Would Val D'Or consider releasing him?  see where I'm going with that.

[jjgallow]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

I thought we moved away from wins as being the AHL goal.  Maybe I am wrong.  It may have been the coach that left when Huska got selected to be the NHL coach.  He seemed very intense.  Can't say for sure he had that mindset but it comes with the territory that an up and coming coach only wants to win.

 

I hope that Gridin goes to the CHL.  Not that the Q is great for defensive play, but I think he needs to grow a bit as a person.  I would have preferred the NCAA route, but I can live with the CHL route.  It's D+1 for him so it's not like he's an overager.

 

I think it's still a problem but getting much better.  Yes, I agree.  And without starting a war, I think you can't compare the AHL system now to what it was under BT.    Conroy's not going to let his top prospects sit on the bench.

 

And they WILL 100% teach defence.  In preparation for Parekh lol.

 

Now, if he goes to the AHL and 10 games in it's a waste, is there a point where Val'Dor might release him?   Maybe there is a way to have cake and eat it too.

[conundrumed]

Val-d'Or has his rights if he goes to the CHL. Currently, the hope is they trade him for picks. Val-d'Or will be a bottom feeder this year.

Imo, the likely scenario is he goes there and has to prove worthy of a top team throwing 8 picks (typical CHL trade lol) at Val-d'Or eventually.

I had a great time in Val-d'Or. I have no idea why it's named Valley of Gold. lol Maybe the valley is jj's mine pic?

 

[jjgallow]

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Val-d'Or has his rights if he goes to the CHL. Currently, the hope is they trade him for picks. Val-d'Or will be a bottom feeder this year.

Imo, the likely scenario is he goes there and has to prove worthy of a top team throwing 8 picks (typical CHL trade lol) at Val-d'Or eventually.

I had a great time in Val-d'Or. I have no idea why it's named Valley of Gold. lol Maybe the valley is jj's mine pic?

 

 

seems to be the case.

 

I don't mind him being on a bad team actually.   More ice time.   Maybe even more defence and coaching.    Problem with that scenario is once he's in the Q, there's no OHL or WHL through normal paths.    

[cross16]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

I thought we moved away from wins as being the AHL goal.  Maybe I am wrong.  It may have been the coach that left when Huska got selected to be the NHL coach.  He seemed very intense.  Can't say for sure he had that mindset but it comes with the territory that an up and coming coach only wants to win.

 

I hope that Gridin goes to the CHL.  Not that the Q is great for defensive play, but I think he needs to grow a bit as a person.  I would have preferred the NCAA route, but I can live with the CHL route.  It's D+1 for him so it's not like he's an overager.

 

You are not. Started with Feaster, continued with BT and so far I don't see any changes under Conroy to what they've been doing for a while. 

 

They want to use the AHL for development and for building the strongest NHL club they can. They want to win games, because winning and development go hand in hand IMO, but their goal is not to win AHL championships and they will prioritize situational development over winning a game if they need to. 

[cberg]

7 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't think he meets this definition. 

 

I have no problem with players going right to AHL or NHL if they are ready for it. I think Gridin, both in terms of physical and game maturity, needs more time. 

 

Not to mention he needs ice time, he needs to play PP, he needs to lead a team. none of that is going to happen in the AHL. 

You seem ultra sure of your opinions, fine, your right.  I'd disagree.  He led his league, by a lot last year, and going to the Q isn't much of a challenge, arguably it is pretty close to his last year.  Being in the AHL means he is in Calgary, with all the developmental pluses that gives.  If he is as good as it seems, he'll get the ice time and PP here, and if challenge has been a reported issue, he should get it in spades.  

[cross16]

1 hour ago, cberg said:

You seem ultra sure of your opinions, fine, your right.  I'd disagree.  He led his league, by a lot last year, and going to the Q isn't much of a challenge, arguably it is pretty close to his last year.  Being in the AHL means he is in Calgary, with all the developmental pluses that gives.  If he is as good as it seems, he'll get the ice time and PP here, and if challenge has been a reported issue, he should get it in spades.  

 

Guess we'll see. If the Flames feel that is best then that's where he'll be it's just not what I would do. 

 

Most, even higher end prospects, struggle early in their AHL careers. Doesn't make sense to me that you'd want to put him through that but to each their own. I'd rather he go a place an dominate than play here and likely see 8-10 mins or less a night. 

[Thebrewcrew]

Steinberg mentioned that he thinks the Flames preference would be that Gridin gets traded, rather than play for Val Dor.

 

It’s been reported that Windsor was going to take him with the 2nd overall pick in the import draft. I think that’s an outcome the Flames would have been really happy with. It’s also much easier to get to.

 

I would think the cost to acquire Gridin will be very high. But likely worth it, Gridin will be playing the next two seasons in the Q. It’s not a one year rental.

[travel_dude]

37 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Steinberg mentioned that he thinks the Flames preference would be that Gridin gets traded, rather than play for Val Dor.

 

It’s been reported that Windsor was going to take him with the 2nd overall pick in the import draft. I think that’s an outcome the Flames would have been really happy with. It’s also much easier to get to.

 

I would think the cost to acquire Gridin will be very high. But likely worth it, Gridin will be playing the next two seasons in the Q. It’s not a one year rental.

 

I get the reasons that they would prefer a OHL team.  Less worry about French for a Russian that played in the USA.  I'm sure the coaches would deal with it, but the area might be a little difficult for the kid.

 

Is it possible that the Spits would make that trade?

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I get the reasons that they would prefer a OHL team.  Less worry about French for a Russian that played in the USA.  I'm sure the coaches would deal with it, but the area might be a little difficult for the kid.

 

Is it possible that the Spits would make that trade?

 

Yeah the more I think about it, the more I think it's the Wranglers.  Not only is the writing on the wall, but it makes the most sense for his development.   And I'm usually one to say stay back as long as possible, but not in this case.

 

Firstly, if you want to know the player's position on this, he showed it to us on the ice.   He came here and showed that he wanted to make a team.  We know what team that was.

 

So what preceded that?   A conversation with the Flames along the lines of "have a good camp and you'll stay in this City"?    I can't say for sure.  No way to know for sure.  I am only 99% on this.

 

And did he have a good camp?

 

So yeah.  Writing's on the wall.

 

 

Is it the right decision?   I'm going to go with Yes:

 

Cons:

• He won't get to dominate like he would in junior this season
• Possible safety concerns

 

Pros:

• He doesn't have to learn 2 actual languages in his transition to North America
• Coaching staff will be focused on his next 15 years instead of his next 2
• Doesn't get taught run-and-gun hockey in his formative years
• Can learn defence
• Access to all the development resources within Flames organisation
• Gets to play with guys and build chemistry that could last his career
• Actually get to keep the friends you make after moving to NA
• He's got some size, and can likely transition better than many
• I'm going to say we are bordering on being a supportive environment for Russians after recent moves
  • Not going to say this for the Q
• Exit plans are Still better than the Q:
  •     Can go to ECHL if it comes down to it, or may be able to go WHL if released from Q
• Hockey gets interesting again in Calgary a Lot sooner

[Thebrewcrew]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I get the reasons that they would prefer a OHL team.  Less worry about French for a Russian that played in the USA.  I'm sure the coaches would deal with it, but the area might be a little difficult for the kid.

 

Is it possible that the Spits would make that trade?

It’s too bad because now that he was picked by Val Dor, he’s stuck in the Q. I’ve seen Rimouski mentioned as a destination. Wouldn’t be a bad thing as they’re hosting the Memorial Cup. Guaranteed to play a lot

of meaningful games.

[conundrumed]

8 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Gridin will be playing the next two seasons in the Q. It’s not a one year rental.

Good point! He becomes part of the CHL transfer agreement. Not unlike all of our CHL picks this year.

[sak22]

Loose end tied up

 

 

 

Year 2 of Solovyov is one way

 

New addition

 

 

 

[travel_dude]

They announced the teams for TC.

Two of them have vets and one has all rookies and AHL/CHL bound players.

Crisp has Backlund, Basha, Sharky, Zary, Kuzmenko, Kadri, Coleman, Weegar, Miromanov and Wolf/Ignatjew.

MacNeil has Huberdeau, Mantha, Pelletier, Lomberg, Pospisil, Andersson, Bahl, Bean and Vladar/Cooley

Johnson is strictly CHL/AHL players, some AHL are 2nd year.

Likely the first group to cut from.

 

Tidy signings with Solo and Schwindt.

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

They announced the teams for TC.

Two of them have vets and one has all rookies and AHL/CHL bound players.

Crisp has Backlund, Basha, Sharky, Zary, Kuzmenko, Kadri, Coleman, Weegar, Miromanov and Wolf/Ignatjew.

MacNeil has Huberdeau, Mantha, Pelletier, Lomberg, Pospisil, Andersson, Bahl, Bean and Vladar/Cooley

Johnson is strictly CHL/AHL players, some AHL are 2nd year.

Likely the first group to cut from.

 

Tidy signings with Solo and Schwindt.

And here I was wondering how Misa might look with experienced talent on a line. lol

Camp is just too short for that stuff. Every team invites 64 guys, so 20 of them go to the quick cut list.

I know they can rearrange, but it's obviously who they expect the first wave of cuts to be.

Hopefully he can leg it out a little longer, but it's not like he isn't returning to the O regardless. Same with Battaglia.

A bit surprised Morin is there. But lord knows we need a Tinordi...

C'mon Bruce, you only have to be better than Barrie!! Just what a pretty defensively weak team needs, Tyson Barrie, PP QB and defensive quagmire.

[conundrumed]

10 hours ago, sak22 said:

Loose end tied up

Good news all around. We just knew Stajan would be with the Flames in some capacity.

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

And here I was wondering how Misa might look with experienced talent on a line. lol

Camp is just too short for that stuff. Every team invites 64 guys, so 20 of them go to the quick cut list.

I know they can rearrange, but it's obviously who they expect the first wave of cuts to be.

Hopefully he can leg it out a little longer, but it's not like he isn't returning to the O regardless. Same with Battaglia.

A bit surprised Morin is there. But lord knows we need a Tinordi...

C'mon Bruce, you only have to be better than Barrie!! Just what a pretty defensively weak team needs, Tyson Barrie, PP QB and defensive quagmire.

 

Parekh with 5 potential NHL roster D.  I think that is to help show him the expectations for his new season.  There is zero reason to have him play 9 games of the new season here.  

 

Some of the decisions stem from good play in the Young Stars games.  Brz, Basha, Honzek, Gridin, Morton, Ignatjew.  Spellcheck doesn't like the majority of these players, LOL.  Stromgren and Schwindt getting reps with the main groups.  

 

What is it?  Sunday first pre-season game against the Seahawks?  Then the split squad against the Oil & Water sub-groups.

[JTech780]

If Gridin plays in the AHL next year, but not the NHL does his ELC still slide? I am of the opinion that junior is probably the best route for him as well. 

 

Looks like they are going to try these lines to start the season:

 

Kuzmenko-Kadri-Sharangovich

Zary-Backlund-Coleman

Huberdeau-Pospisil-Mantha

Lomberg-Rooney-Duehr