24-25 Training Camp

[jjgallow]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Injury can happen in either league, so I don't know that would be an argument either way.    

 

We've had this debate before, but the NHL is the strongest and the fastest league with the highest stakes.   

 

We could get into numbers but the numbers are not good for a guy Honzek's age staying healthy in the NHL.  Or we could do it qualitatively and talk about Laine.

 

Strongest league, fastest league, highest-stakes league.   

 

Admittedly the AHL can be rough, and probably Does need a cleanup.   But it's safer than the NHL for his age.    I'm not opposed to another year of junior, not only for safety but because this kid grew up early and he's never really been given an opportunity to just dominate.  He's always played in leagues older than  him.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

We've had this debate before, but the NHL is the strongest and the fastest league with the highest stakes.   

 

We could get into numbers but the numbers are not good for a guy Honzek's age staying healthy in the NHL.  Or we could do it qualitatively and talk about Laine.

 

Strongest league, fastest league, highest-stakes league.   

 

Admittedly the AHL can be rough, and probably Does need a cleanup.   But it's safer than the NHL for his age.    I'm not opposed to another year of junior, not only for safety but because this kid grew up early and he's never really been given an opportunity to just dominate.  He's always played in leagues older than  him.

 

2 injuries already in the WHL.  The AHL is full of wannabees.  Those that have been demoted and have a chip on their shoulders.  For a guy making $2M+ and sent down because there isn't a fit in the NHL, they aren't exactly there to just play hockey.  We have seen it too often.  And the AHL is full of players that will never be in the NHL. 

 

I'm not going to debate whether the NHL is safe or dangerous.  It's obvious.  Some players, not even huge ones, manage injury free careers.  But experience plays into that.  Knowing what's coming, not pushing the boundaries of your experience, etc. 

 

He looks small still, but just muscle mass.  Still just a big kid.  Higher center of gravity.  I think the AHL may be a good place for him, especially if Lipinsky is there.  If there's opportunity and he shows the right stuff, call him up for 3 games.  He's been really good in games against half NHL/half prospect teams.    

[jjgallow]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

2 injuries already in the WHL.  The AHL is full of wannabees.  Those that have been demoted and have a chip on their shoulders.  For a guy making $2M+ and sent down because there isn't a fit in the NHL, they aren't exactly there to just play hockey.  We have seen it too often.  And the AHL is full of players that will never be in the NHL. 

 

I'm not going to debate whether the NHL is safe or dangerous.  It's obvious.  Some players, not even huge ones, manage injury free careers.  But experience plays into that.  Knowing what's coming, not pushing the boundaries of your experience, etc. 

 

He looks small still, but just muscle mass.  Still just a big kid.  Higher center of gravity.  I think the AHL may be a good place for him, especially if Lipinsky is there.  If there's opportunity and he shows the right stuff, call him up for 3 games.  He's been really good in games against half NHL/half prospect teams.    

 

The AHL would be fine.    He had such an unimpressive year last year and now in training camp looks right on schedule lol...it's fantastic to see.   And from that perspective it wouldn't be terrible if he was done on that team.

 

Although I am Assuming it's got more to do with a long recovery process from injury, or something of that nature.

[travel_dude]

20 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

The AHL would be fine.    He had such an unimpressive year last year and now in training camp looks right on schedule lol...it's fantastic to see.   And from that perspective it wouldn't be terrible if he was done on that team.

 

Although I am Assuming it's got more to do with a long recovery process from injury, or something of that nature.

 

For a limited season full of injuries, I think he was okay.  

[tmac70]

 Every player wants to be in the NHL. Last season, he left camp with instructions on how to get better for next season. You have Huska and Conroy blowing hot air about coming in and stealing a spot. So we can all see he has been a standout. He looks better than any prospect or veteran right now. To be told, " Hey look, Sam, you did everything we asked but go back to the minors, we think you may get hurt." That's a big FU in my books. This is a professional sport with risks at any level, but not giving this young man a shot is incomprehensible, he has earned it.  The same could be said about Peltier, he was given more rope than any other prospect right now, but he has not proven he deserves a spot, keeping him on the roster is a big FU to everyone else to.  I do not care if you are a 1st or 7th rounder, earn but not given, from my viewing of what I have seen thus far, Honzek and Corronato deserve a chance far more than Pelts does, If someone wants to take him on waivers so be it. If your going to rebuild a championship team than you have to be willing to make tough decisions, this one is not tough. He was given a chance, in view point play better makes the decision easier.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

 Every player wants to be in the NHL. Last season, he left camp with instructions on how to get better for next season. You have Huska and Conroy blowing hot air about coming in and stealing a spot. So we can all see he has been a standout. He looks better than any prospect or veteran right now. To be told, " Hey look, Sam, you did everything we asked but go back to the minors, we think you may get hurt." That's a big FU in my books. This is a professional sport with risks at any level, but not giving this young man a shot is incomprehensible, he has earned it.  The same could be said about Peltier, he was given more rope than any other prospect right now, but he has not proven he deserves a spot, keeping him on the roster is a big FU to everyone else to.  I do not care if you are a 1st or 7th rounder, earn but not given, from my viewing of what I have seen thus far, Honzek and Corronato deserve a chance far more than Pelts does, If someone wants to take him on waivers so be it. If your going to rebuild a championship team than you have to be willing to make tough decisions, this one is not tough. He was given a chance, in view point play better makes the decision easier.  

 

 

 

I was thinking about the "steal a roster spot" mantra as well.  Last year we didn't have that happen and Zary/Pospisil both got in later.  And never went back.  The vets are perhaps not going to be risking injury to keep a spot they likely feel they earned last year.  I will give them that.  But there are several fringe players that were or could easily be waiver subjected players.  

 

When I think about Honzek possibly making the team, I try to come up with a fit for the lines.  With Pospisil injured, it's hard to come up with anything longer than a couple of games.  With a healthy roster, the lines start like this:

 

Zary-Kadri-Kuzmenko

Huberdeau-Pospisil-Sharaganov 

Coleman-Backlund-Mantha

Lomberg-Rooney-Klapka

 

As it is, there isn't an open spot for Coronato or Honzek directly.  Of the non-NHL players, Honzek, Coronato and Klapka have had the most impact.  None of them are really C's, so Rooney pushes one of them out.  If you went with Sharaganov at C, then Pospisil gets 4th line C, but would be more of a bigger minutes line.  Klapka subs out to give a RW more minutes.  Coronato moves into RW top 9 or Honzek gets a LW there.

 

I have no issues with waiving Roney, Hunt and Duehr, since we have seen a more balanced 4th line recently.  The C spot is the issue there.

[JTech780]

That looks about as close to the day 1 roster as it’s going to get.

[conundrumed]

32 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

 Every player wants to be in the NHL. Last season, he left camp with instructions on how to get better for next season. You have Huska and Conroy blowing hot air about coming in and stealing a spot. So we can all see he has been a standout. He looks better than any prospect or veteran right now. To be told, " Hey look, Sam, you did everything we asked but go back to the minors, we think you may get hurt." That's a big FU in my books. This is a professional sport with risks at any level, but not giving this young man a shot is incomprehensible, he has earned it.  The same could be said about Peltier, he was given more rope than any other prospect right now, but he has not proven he deserves a spot, keeping him on the roster is a big FU to everyone else to.  I do not care if you are a 1st or 7th rounder, earn but not given, from my viewing of what I have seen thus far, Honzek and Corronato deserve a chance far more than Pelts does, If someone wants to take him on waivers so be it. If your going to rebuild a championship team than you have to be willing to make tough decisions, this one is not tough. He was given a chance, in view point play better makes the decision easier. 

I seriously don't understand the Mantha signing. Like, do we want size at all costs?

As for Honzek, he can start in the A. It's a long season so it's not like it's a death sentence. Jr doesn't look like a good plan. Play against men.

We have to sort the roster out to start. We're not condemning him, just need to buy some time to sort out things like Pelts and others you mention.

[conundrumed]

14 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

That looks about as close to the day 1 roster as it’s going to get.

Agree.

[travel_dude]

27 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

That looks about as close to the day 1 roster as it’s going to get.

 

I am a little surprised at the Sharky on LW placement.  But no real issue with it either.  

[travel_dude]

19 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I seriously don't understand the Mantha signing. Like, do we want size at all costs?

As for Honzek, he can start in the A. It's a long season so it's not like it's a death sentence. Jr doesn't look like a good plan. Play against men.

We have to sort the roster out to start. We're not condemning him, just need to buy some time to sort out things like Pelts and others you mention.

 

Mantha looks odd because it's not like he's a scoring star coming in to help.  It's more like we have an open spot for a project.  If that project works out, then we have a big trade chip.  Otherwise what is the point.  Okay, if he fits, scores a ton and shows that he has a future here, then I suppose we need more RW.  But I'm not in favor of collecting older players just to have them push out the younger ones.

[cross16]

The reality of the situation is there really aren't many roster spots you can win in training camp in a league with guaranteed contracts. The idea of "take a veterans" job is more about instilling a mindset then it is about actually stealing a job and you start that mindset in training camp and you should carry it for a long time. 

 

Honzek should start in the A, provided he's going to get every opportunity. If he's going to be more of a middle 6 guy, without special teams then I'd rather him be in junior playing a ton but if they can prioritize his development then the A is better for him right now then the NHL. 

[JTech780]

7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I am a little surprised at the Sharky on LW placement.  But no real issue with it either.  

All of a sudden we have more options at RW than at C.

[cross16]

41 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

That looks about as close to the day 1 roster as it’s going to get.

 

Yup. 

 

Barrie is sure making that Bean signing, which wasn't' great to begin with, not look any better. Having said that i'm not sure they saw Pachal playing as well as he has offensively so far either. 

[cross16]

Think you've got your initial 23 player roster here.

 

No surprises for me. I wonder if it will come down to Pelletier-Schwindt for that last spot but for a team lacking in true centers, and Pospisil not healthy, I can see the edge going to Schwindt. 

 

What to do with Pelletier is the last remaining question. They would know better than I but i'm skeptical he clears waivers. 

 

 

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

Pretty clear what they are thinking now based on these groups and who is going to be in the AHL.

 

No surprises for me

 

 

Yeah I think Duehr, Hunt, Tinordi and Cooley be on waivers today. Frk and Kirkland just need to clear.

 

It will be interesting how they decide to go forward with Pelletier. I still believe there is upside there, but I don’t think he did enough to earn a spot out of camp. So do they risk losing him on waivers, or move him for a middle round pick?

[conundrumed]

18 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Yup. 

 

Barrie is sure making that Bean signing, which wasn't' great to begin with, not look any better. Having said that i'm not sure they saw Pachal playing as well as he has offensively so far either. 

They should have known the bolded was a very real possibility. On the other side of the coin, he was a solid waiver pick-up. I almost wanna say he was an early start to the Hanifin trade.

I don't think the Flames D will be as bad as is being depicted.

Have a good summer doing what you need to. Dry-land training is so great for all players, young and old. A chance to develop your weaknesses.

Lots of new faces that joined us last year. Give them a summer to take it all in. Come back and apply it. Show us you listened.

I can't stress, "work out what your training has to look like" enough. Hardest part to make the NHL, I'd say.

I really liked Pachal's chances coming in. Some bad habits to clean up, whatevs, clean them up. I like the player.

[travel_dude]

34 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Think you've got your initial 23 player roster here.

 

No surprises for me. I wonder if it will come down to Pelletier-Schwindt for that last spot but for a team lacking in true centers, and Pospisil not healthy, I can see the edge going to Schwindt. 

 

What to do with Pelletier is the last remaining question. They would know better than I but i'm skeptical he clears waivers. 

 

 

 

I don't see Hanley as a logical guy to keep on the main roster over Solo.  That's just me.  Both have been okay during the camp, but one is likely to clear over the other.  Just my thinking perhaps.

 

Pelletier and Schwindt are both waiver eligible.  Pelletier is maybe slightly more likely to be claimed.  If it was me, I would keep up Schwindt and Pelletier, and waive Rooney.  His salary makes him slightly less attractive to claim.  On the D, I would waive Hanley.  

[cross16]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't see Hanley as a logical guy to keep on the main roster over Solo.  That's just me.  Both have been okay during the camp, but one is likely to clear over the other.  Just my thinking perhaps.

 

Pelletier and Schwindt are both waiver eligible.  Pelletier is maybe slightly more likely to be claimed.  If it was me, I would keep up Schwindt and Pelletier, and waive Rooney.  His salary makes him slightly less attractive to claim.  On the D, I would waive Hanley.  

 

For all the flake he gets, he played well last year and he's been good again so far in camp. That line was my favorite against the Canucks. For a team lacking centers I don't see the logic in one playing his role well. 

 

I think Hanley is your ideal 7/8 dman because they don't need to care if he sits for a long period of time. I wish they had an NHL spot for Solo too but it's got to be one where he plays and not sits and that isn't available right now. 

[cross16]

22 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

They should have known the bolded was a very real possibility. On the other side of the coin, he was a solid waiver pick-up. I almost wanna say he was an early start to the Hanifin trade.

I don't think the Flames D will be as bad as is being depicted.

Have a good summer doing what you need to. Dry-land training is so great for all players, young and old. A chance to develop your weaknesses.

Lots of new faces that joined us last year. Give them a summer to take it all in. Come back and apply it. Show us you listened.

I can't stress, "work out what your training has to look like" enough. Hardest part to make the NHL, I'd say.

I really liked Pachal's chances coming in. Some bad habits to clean up, whatevs, clean them up. I like the player.

 

I'm not surprised he's earning a job, i'm just surprised at the level of offense from him. 

 

I somewhat agree on the D. I actually the there is a lot of talent on their blueline but I also think they have a major weakness. They don't defend down low well. I think they can all skate, they can all move the puck, join the rush and I think for the most part they are decent at defending the rush (part of this is systematic though). But almost all of them struggle once the puck is downlow and behind the goal line. I think this is a major weakness but it's one you can overcome. 

 

Can they overcome it or will teams exploit is the storyline I will follow

[cross16]

Solo on waivers today. Only Flame

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I'm not surprised he's earning a job, i'm just surprised at the level of offense from him. 

 

I somewhat agree on the D. I actually the there is a lot of talent on their blueline but I also think they have a major weakness. They don't defend down low well. I think they can all skate, they can all move the puck, join the rush and I think for the most part they are decent at defending the rush (part of this is systematic though). But almost all of them struggle once the puck is downlow and behind the goal line. I think this is a major weakness but it's one you can overcome. 

 

Can they overcome it or will teams exploit is the storyline I will follow

Definitely the juxtaposition of designing your D. We all want 2 Quinn Hughes, but you still need Regehr's.

Gotta move the puck yet still terrorize their forwards. Tough balance.

Pachal's biggest gain so far, for me, has been finding enough soft areas that the star forwards see you in the O-zone. I expect that disappears after 15-odd games. He defends well, so that's what we want. Even last year, I thought that's a really astute pick-up....like it was designed. lol

[cberg]

3 hours ago, tmac70 said:

 Every player wants to be in the NHL. Last season, he left camp with instructions on how to get better for next season. You have Huska and Conroy blowing hot air about coming in and stealing a spot. So we can all see he has been a standout. He looks better than any prospect or veteran right now. To be told, " Hey look, Sam, you did everything we asked but go back to the minors, we think you may get hurt." That's a big FU in my books. This is a professional sport with risks at any level, but not giving this young man a shot is incomprehensible, he has earned it.  The same could be said about Peltier, he was given more rope than any other prospect right now, but he has not proven he deserves a spot, keeping him on the roster is a big FU to everyone else to.  I do not care if you are a 1st or 7th rounder, earn but not given, from my viewing of what I have seen thus far, Honzek and Corronato deserve a chance far more than Pelts does, If someone wants to take him on waivers so be it. If your going to rebuild a championship team than you have to be willing to make tough decisions, this one is not tough. He was given a chance, in view point play better makes the decision easier.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agree wholeheartedly, back in 2014-15 when the Flames surprised massively, what was the mantra: “Earned not Given”.  Those that earned were given a chance, they took it and ran with it all the way to the second round of the playoffs.  That is the best since 2005, and second best in decades.  Unless there is some compelling reason why not, those that earn should be rewarded.  Health and strength are clearly factors, but mental and trust issues also matter.

[JTech780]

I would be surprised if Solo gets claimed. There is a lot of defensemen in his caliber going on waivers.

[tmac70]

 

A side note, the Wranglers should be fun to watch this season. They will have a very offensive D core and some good forwards up front with Honzek, Coronoto, Frk, Duehr, Morton, and Peltier. If they can get so goaltending should be a great season. 

 

I just don't see Pelts getting claimed there have been and are better players on or have cleared waivers than him.