escape power/play fund -3 of good shooting/scoring defencemen on unit 2b

[Rohney]

one or two of their good scoring defencemen may be able to outperform from close in and score even more goals from there on the power play + less chance of coughing up puck to the penalty-kill team.

[medatswhoP]

23 hours ago, Guest said:

one or two of their good scoring defencemen may be able to outperform from close in and score even more goals from there on the power play + less chance of coughing up puck to the penalty-kill team.

Not sure if I understand the statement in its entirely but... who did you have in mind?

 

Top skating speed (Defenceman) Flames.

The fastest top seed on the entire Flames roster so far this season was recorded by N. Zadorova with an impressive 37.62 Kph top speed, while the remainder of the Flames Defence only hover around average overall across the league with top speeds is 33.98 Kph.

Basically we dont really have much for D-men capable of outperforming other teams much for closing in scoring chances for more goals across the league. 

It's only beneficial when higher risk vs. reward is needed to pinch in higher to try to create/salvage goals/games this is why I mention speed as a factor to get back to D-zone after a rush.

Note: Also on the Flames Defence Hanafin believe it or not has both hardest shot 151.85 Kph, and highest average shot speed of 120.38 Kph.

Stat taken from Brett Montrose "Fansided".

 

 

[travel_dude]

I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is supposed to be.

Trades?

Lines?

[Rohney]

Sorry i got cut off before i could finish as i was not registered yesterday.   In light of Flames not scoring on the power play and having 4 defencemen who can put the puck in the net -  I am suggesting a 2b (at least where they would start) power play with 3 of those 4 defencemen out there  so one of them can play closer in - and who knows one of them might just become very adept at scoring in the slot (of course they would have to have 2 forwards).  Worth a try with the goal scarce power plays now.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Rohney said:

Sorry i got cut off before i could finish as i was not registered yesterday.   In light of Flames not scoring on the power play and having 4 defencemen who can put the puck in the net -  I am suggesting a 2b (at least where they would start) power play with 3 of those 4 defencemen out there  so one of them can play closer in - and who knows one of them might just become very adept at scoring in the slot (of course they would have to have 2 forwards).  Worth a try with the goal scarce power plays now.

 

I can move it to a different group thread, but it doesn't belong in the Game Day threads.  The comment I would say about the thread is that's it's a one thought type thread.  PP's get talked about a lot in the Lines thread.  

[Rohney]

yes u can move it but hope i can find it.  As a continuation i would suggest Anderson be that slot defenceman for the Flames 3 defencemen powerplay, as he has shooting finesse and the speed and skating abilities as well as the smarts

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, Rohney said:

yes u can move it but hope i can find it.  As a continuation i would suggest Anderson be that slot defenceman for the Flames 3 defencemen powerplay, as he has shooting finesse and the speed and skating abilities as well as the smarts

 

It sort of fits in with the lines discussion, but I will move it to Flames talk.  If nobody replies to it, it will drop down.

[Heartbreaker]

42 minutes ago, Rohney said:

yes u can move it but hope i can find it.  As a continuation i would suggest Anderson be that slot defenceman for the Flames 3 defencemen powerplay, as he has shooting finesse and the speed and skating abilities as well as the smarts

 

Three D power play?! It's cheeky, but not as cheeky as the time that Brent Sutter deployed five defencemen against Vancouver:

• Jay Bouwmeester
• Mark Giordano
• Cory Sarich
• Brendan Mikkelson
• Anton Babchuk

Shockingly, the ploy didn't work, and the boys went 0/3 on the PP that night, and allowed one shorty to Mason Raymond en route to his first career hat trick*, eventually losing 7-2.

 

Love.

 

* - Mason Raymond would score another hat trick years later, but this time he played for the Flames and propelled them to a 5-2 victory over the Oilers

[cross16]

It hasn't worked yet but I do like Savard willing to go to the 3-2 PP with 2 dmen at times. 

 

I'm not sure i'd advocate for 3 dman, but I do like the idea of them adopting a more 3-2 umbrella set up, as opposed to the 1-3-1 that's been a staple here the last few years.  Flames just don't seem to have an effective bumper player that can make the 1-3-1 run consistently. 

[The_People1]

I recall Chara and Byfuglien both being used as the screen-guy in their days... Maybe Zadorov could've been that for us.  He had the size.

[Heartbreaker]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

I recall Chara and Byfuglien both being used as the screen-guy in their days... Maybe Zadorov could've been that for us.  He had the size.

 

Pronger did it too, remember?

 

He said, she said. I'm the he!

*whistle* puck's in the net.

 

 

Love.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

I recall Chara and Byfuglien both being used as the screen-guy in their days... Maybe Zadorov could've been that for us.  He had the size.

 

Big Buff was as much a forward as he was a D back then.  I didn't mind using Hiberdeau net front, since his pass instincts are somewhat odd right now.

Using Govich as the QB, more or less, seems to have allowed for a lot better passes.  I don't like Ras or Hanifin on the top PP unit though.

Hanifin is fine with 2 D, but not as the lone man.  Ras will never take a shot until it's telegraphed well in advance.  He has no shot instinct anymore.

Or so it would appear.  

 

I think we have to strip it down and start over.  Kadri, Govich and Zary on a unit.  Figure out the rest.

Huberdeau and Lindholm maybe on the 2 unit.  Ruzicka is a big body shooter.  

 

[cross16]

Be curious to see if anyone else feels this way but I feel like screening the goalie is overrated in today's game. Or at the very least I don't like the idea of someone just standing there as their sole job. 

 

I think modern PPs need to rest on puck movement due to the increased size of the O zone. Stick a guy in 1 spot would seem to limit my options as a PP.  Same rationale of why I don't love the 1-3-1 unless you are going to let that bumper move around (or have someone who can do it)

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Be curious to see if anyone else feels this way but I feel like screening the goalie is overrated in today's game. Or at the very least I don't like the idea of someone just standing there as their sole job. 

 

I think modern PPs need to rest on puck movement due to the increased size of the O zone. Stick a guy in 1 spot would seem to limit my options as a PP.  Same rationale of why I don't love the 1-3-1 unless you are going to let that bumper move around (or have someone who can do it)

 

I think what made Tkachuk successful in that spot was that he wasn't just in that spot.

He would be behind, looking for a slot pass.  Or he would be digging in out front for a rebound.

Monahan used to be in the slot and lived there.

 

What I have noticed that really isn't working is when we get bottled up on one side.

The guy with the puck has no easy passes other than the point or board guy next to him.

Most times it just turns into a loss of possession.

Because we struggle to gain the zone, it seems like they just force it when it doesn't exist.

 

I don't really have answers to what would work for us.

1-3-1 isn't working for us right now, maybe because we are never shooting from the point.

It's not the only way to get goals, and you need someone that can actually get the shot on.

When the other teams plays us they know the shot is not coming from there.

So, the screen is almost useless.

 

What do you think about a unit that cycles spots insstead of just snapping the pass.

As he encroaches, the other guys are shifting so the defense has to adjust.

Spots and lanes are more likely to open up.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

Be curious to see if anyone else feels this way but I feel like screening the goalie is overrated in today's game. Or at the very least I don't like the idea of someone just standing there as their sole job. 

 

I think modern PPs need to rest on puck movement due to the increased size of the O zone. Stick a guy in 1 spot would seem to limit my options as a PP.  Same rationale of why I don't love the 1-3-1 unless you are going to let that bumper move around (or have someone who can do it)

I've always been a believer of "the goalie cant stop what he cant see" when it comes to net front presence. I know alot of players are crazy good at deflections and tip ins but but a goalie with a clear line of sight will stop almost everything. 

 

A bigger concern I noticed is true one-timers are a rarity on this team. there always seems to be the the extra half second to cradle or steady the puck before a shot is taken. Even when the pass is on the tape theres usually a slight hesitation before a shot.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I've always been a believer of "the goalie cant stop what he cant see" when it comes to net front presence. I know alot of players are crazy good at deflections and tip ins but but a goalie with a clear line of sight will stop almost everything. 

 

A bigger concern I noticed is true one-timers are a rarity on this team. there always seems to be the the extra half second to cradle or steady the puck before a shot is taken. Even when the pass is on the tape theres usually a slight hesitation before a shot.

 

There was a shot that Govich tried to take on the PP.  I think it was against the AVS.

It was popped into the exact right position by Weegar I think.

He smashed the puck, and....

his stick exploded.

 

I think he bought his stick at the Gio used PP stick sale.

 

But, there have been other times.

Coronato on the RW wing.

Lindholm on the RW.

Ras on the off wing.

 

We just don't have that mentality to be in the wind up when the puck hits the area.

And perhaps we don't have the laser accuracy to hit a certain part of the net.

Unless it's the off wing, there is too much time for the goalie to react.

[The_People1]

9 hours ago, cross16 said:

Be curious to see if anyone else feels this way but I feel like screening the goalie is overrated in today's game. Or at the very least I don't like the idea of someone just standing there as their sole job. 

 

I think modern PPs need to rest on puck movement due to the increased size of the O zone. Stick a guy in 1 spot would seem to limit my options as a PP.  Same rationale of why I don't love the 1-3-1 unless you are going to let that bumper move around (or have someone who can do it)

 

Well we say "screening" but obviously it extends to deflections and rebounds.  Just having a giant plug screen but he has no hands and no hand-eye-coordination... Yes, that seems like a waste.  But if the guy can tip shots, fade into the high slot to receive slap passes, and out muscle for jam plays in the front of the net, then that's where most goals are scored.  The benefits outweigh the negatives.

 

It's almost like, it's the absence of one of these type of power forward star players that requires modern PP's to be creative.  With one, it's "stop me if you can" territory.

 

So ya, I don't agree or disagree because it depends who it is.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

10 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

There was a shot that Govich tried to take on the PP.  I think it was against the AVS.

It was popped into the exact right position by Weegar I think.

He smashed the puck, and....

his stick exploded.

 

I think he bought his stick at the Gio used PP stick sale.

 

But, there have been other times.

Coronato on the RW wing.

Lindholm on the RW.

Ras on the off wing.

 

We just don't have that mentality to be in the wind up when the puck hits the area.

And perhaps we don't have the laser accuracy to hit a certain part of the net.

Unless it's the off wing, there is too much time for the goalie to react.

That was the exact play that I was referring to. The fact that he was in release mode before the puck even got there just made me notice all the stop, set, shoot that happened for the rest of the game, especially on the PP.